The USA and socialism

[Serafina]

As there was a lot of discussion about supposedly "socialistic" and "left" trends recently, i recognized that those terms seem to mean something completly different to an US citizen than to an european.

Being curious, i am therefore asking the following questions:

1: What image about socialism/left politics has the average US citizen? What qualifies as socialistic/left?

2: What are children thaught about socialism/leftism in school? Do they learn anything about non-market economy?

3: How are socialist/left politicans (there have to be some of them) recognized in public? Do they have any chance for politcal influence without refusingtheir beliefs?

4: How serious are todays social-econimc problems (healthcare, poverty insurance etc.) taken?

5: And, finally, what are the reasons for those beliefs?

To answer these questions from a european pov:

1: Its the opposite to right/conversative politics (duh..). Its targets are to improve the situation of the poor by means of public healthcare/insurances supported by the state. Right politicans tend to place more focus on self-care, while leftists want to increase care by the state.

2: (answer valid for germany only): There is a great amount of education about socialism. Socialist politics are presented as an inherent part of a good democracy. While communism is resented due to its large power concentration, students are thought that there is a great difference between communism and socialist politics. The history of social rights and politics is teached from the pov of history, social studys, economy and religion/ethics.

3: Like any other politican. There are parties for every kind of politican. While the political right tends to have fewer, larger parties, both left and right parties combined are about equally strong.

4: They are THE political problem. Most of the political effort of both left and right politicans is about social care, healthcare, insurances etc.

So, what are your oppinions on the US or european view of socialism/leftism?

[Pablo Sanchez]

1: What image about socialism/left politics has the average US citizen?

The term "socialism" is similar to "liberal" or even "fascist" in that the only thing that most Americans know about it is that they should think it is bad. A good example of this for the European observer is during the later part of the 2008 presidential election, Obama said something about how we ought to "spread the wealth around" in America. McCain and Republicans said that this was socialism and believed, not entirely erroneously, that that was all they had to say; socialism would be regarded by the public as intrinsically bad.

What qualifies as socialistic/left?

Anything could be assigned those terms, regardless of it's actual political content. Avoiding the use of torture is identified as a "left" idea, for example.

2: What are children thaught about socialism/leftism in school? Do they learn anything about non-market economy?

They learn that non-market economies are bad, by reference to the USSR.

3: How are socialist/left politicans (there have to be some of them) recognized in public? Do they have any chance for politcal influence without refusingtheir beliefs?

Bernie Sanders, an "independent" (no official party affiliation) Senator from Vermont, is effectively a social Democrat, but he is the only person to admit such a thing so directly. Politicians directly identifying as socialists would be unelectable throughout the vast majority of America.

4: How serious are todays social-econimc problems (healthcare, poverty insurance etc.) taken?

There has been a growing recognition among Americans at large for the past several years that the healthcare system is non-functional, and public support for universal health care is actually quite high.

5: And, finally, what are the reasons for those beliefs?

Historically speaking the American socialist left was never especially strong, probably because the urban working-class areas that were the socialist strongholds in European countries were dominated by the great Democratic machines. If you are not familiar with these, they were pseudo-criminal organizations that used electoral fraud and bribed voters with government largesse to win elections. Most large urban centers were electorally controlled by Democratic machines from the mid-19th century on into the mid 20th century, with Lyndon B. Johnson's career being considerably aided by the Democratic machine politics in Texas (arguably one machine, in Chicago, still survives even to this day!). This probably made it harder for socialism to develop as an electoral alternative. Additionally, trade syndicates were vigorously opposed by the government much of the time, including the use of direct military force (see the Ludlow Massacre).

During WWI the left opposed intervention and was aggressively gutted by the government, both during the war and after, in the Red Scare where anti-bolshevik sentiment was exploited to essentially kill the socialist left in America, forever. With the Great Depression, the Democrats as an establishment party co-opted aspects of socialism for their own use with the New Deal, but they remained an establishment party. The great prosperity of the nation between the end of WWII and the 1970s, together with anti-Soviet Cold War feeling, tainted socialism even further. Finally in the 1980s, American politics swung rightward, where they still remain.

Historical forces in America were not conducive to socialist parties, in other words.

So, what are your oppinions on the US or european view of socialism/leftism?

My opinion is that the US view is childish and needs to change. People already accept certain socialist programs like Medicare and Social Security as integral to their lives, there is just a cognitive disconnect between them and the idea of socialism.

[Guardsman Bass]

As there was a lot of discussion about supposedly "socialistic" and "left" trends recently, i recognized that those terms seem to mean something completly different to an US citizen than to an european.

Being curious, i am therefore asking the following questions:

1: What image about socialism/left politics has the average US citizen? What qualifies as socialistic/left?

It's a Fox News poll, but 23% of Americans think that "moving away from capitalism and more towards socialism" is a good thing, including 42% of those with incomes under $30,000 a year, and 31% of Americans under 30 years of age.

As for what is considered "socialistic/left", usually it is any federal program that provides welfare and/or assistance (except for farm subsidies, for some reason), although it varies considerably among Americans. State programs don't seem to draw as much of a reaction, although the same dynamic does exist.

Keep in mind that a lot of Americans support ideas like universal health, funding for education, and the like - but it depends on the way in which you ask them.

2: What are children thaught about socialism/leftism in school? Do they learn anything about non-market economy?

Depending on what grade you are in, you learn about the New Deal (when you first started to see some socialistic elements enter the US economy, like Social Security pensions and so forth), the Great Society (when health care, education, and welfare programs and funding were created and expanded), and so forth, but my education never really delved into the economics of the whole situation except as pertaining to historical events. The spin was usually pro-capitalist, when it existed.

3: How are socialist/left politicans (there have to be some of them) recognized in public? Do they have any chance for politcal influence without refusingtheir beliefs?

Left-leaning politicians (by American standards) do get elected, and frequently depending on their district. Openly socialist politicians tend to be rare to non-existent on the federal level (Bernie Sanders is a socialist, if I recall correctly, although he counts as an "independent" in the Senate).

4: How serious are todays social-econimc problems (healthcare, poverty insurance etc.) taken?

The Democrats and most Americans tend to take these problems very seriously, although it depends on how you ask the questions. The Republicans take them seriously, although they disagree on what the problem actually is in many cases (most mainstream Republicans I've spoken to tend to think that reducing the costs of health care is more important than guaranteeing universal access).

5: And, finally, what are the reasons for those beliefs?

The usual factors: history, employment, family background, religious background, and so forth. In terms of history, remember that most Americans were alive during the Cold War, when there was an extremely negative view promoted of Communism by the state and civil society, which bled over into skepticism of true socialism and some wariness of left-wing policies in general, although the latter has varied over time (LBJ had wide public support for his Great Society policies in the 1960s, which greatly expanded the federal role in health care, education, and welfare assistance).

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

Socialism also had a serious problem, even in the early 19th century. Americans consistently grew up in an environment coloured by the Constitution-as-a-religion and 18th century Enlightenment political philosophy. "Small government" and "rugged individualism" became a type of faith and it infected everything and was reinforced through the major parties AND schooling. Social Studies itself was created as a discipline to brainwash kids into American values and principles.

Another consideration's the notion of American Exceptionalism. The United States saw itself as unique and special; The oficial propaganda was that America was "different" and that it didn't have a need to change. Everything would be okay because that American ingenuity and special ideology would fix the problems that plagued Manchester. It didn't hurt that the structure of the political system made real competition difficult. Socialism was seen as "foreign" and "European," and thus not American and thus bad.

Aside from that, American left-wing movements were exceptionally poorly organized and they couldn't even agree amongst themselves on basic principles, so they tended to fragment into worthless tiny third parties--even major third parties in the United States never really did that well, much less dozens of small competing ones all having similar ideals. As others have also said, the major parties tended to co-opt socialist ideals and thus screw over the real left-wing parties. They threw left-leaning individuals a bone once in a while while not really changing all that much. The relatively hands-off policies allowed businesses to threaten their workers, too, through much of US history, which kept them from voting their interests.

There was a lot of incoherence among American socialists, who themselves had been brainwashed by American eduation.
For example, take Eugene V. Debs--he attempted to create a hybrid American Socialism rooted in the Founding Father's ideals, but it just produced something rather incoherent and bizarre.

Trade Unions in the United States often didn't support Socialism either, as they too didn't want to be associated with incoherent ideas attempting to hybridize homegrown and foreign ideologies. They also didn't want to be tainted with the radicalism of Socialism; they had enough problems. Even less radical ideals of the Unionists got them curb-stomped by government-backed companies with private police departments, so more radical ideas weren't flying too well. This lead to bread and butter unionism, which was antagonistic toward the ideals and methods of socialists. Gompers didn't even WANT government intervention, for example; he wanted unions to bargain alone. There is along-standing fear of government in American society and worship of the Constitution's principles, such that anything deviating from them was demonized.

For them, socialism involved waaaaaaaaaaaay more government that they didn't trust anyway and was not "Constitutional." Think of the Constitution as a Bible. It's hard for ideas to take root in such a system.