The Red Star.....going away?

[MKSheppard]

Link one

After more than 90 years, the Russian stars will no longer be all red. They'll be red, white and blue.

The Kremlin-controlled lower house of parliament voted 389-2 late last year to replace Soviet-era red stars on military aircraft with ones bearing the three colors of the Russian national flag. The five-pointed red stars have adorned the planes since the 1917 Bolshevik revolution.

The State Duma made the move even though the red star was officially restored as a military symbol and brought back to the military¡¦s parade banners in 2002. The stars had remained on the planes all along, however.

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From a different site:

Tradition of the red star of VVS may end

Russian Parliament approves change in colors of red star of the Russian Air Force

- Breaking a tradition of more than 90 years, Russia's Parliament adopted by 389 votes to two, changing the color of the legendary and mythical red star, all aircraft used in air force, like a star, but in red , white and blue, referring to the national flag. However, despite the success of a vote in Parliament, it seems that the only new idea like the politicians, as the report of ASAS examined with a local expert saying it would not be exaggeration to say that 90% of the population is against the decision, not to mention the soldiers themselves, where the "exchange" has generated a huge repudiation.

- Thus, despite the approval in Parliament, many question whether the measure will in fact be implemented. If this occurs, however, certainly not immediately, but perhaps in the second half of this year. The red star was adopted in 1917 after the October Revolution, and despite its connection to the former communist regime, "survived" the collapse of this at the end of 1991.

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Boo indeed.

[Count Chocula]

So they're putting new paint on the pig, eh? How interesting.

Stas, does the Red-White-Blue signify a cultural shift away from communism in Russia, as symbolized by the red star?

[Admiral Valdemar]

They should paint it pink instead. It'll scare the crap out of people more than Putin dancing topless or something.

[chitoryu12]

They should paint it pink instead. It'll scare the crap out of people more than Putin dancing topless or something.

I think seeing Putin topless in real life is enough to scare the crap out of any invading army. Just put him on top the Kremlin without a shirt and nobody will want to drop their bombs.

On a more serious note, I think Enigma is right. The red star still represents communism to pretty much everybody, and as iconic and cool-looking as it is, I personally think that changing it to represent Russia's colors will definately signify that they've moved on from the old government. Or at least prevent any confusion should a Russian fighter pass a Chinese one.

[K. A. Pital]

That's bullshit which no one in the Army supports, and people in the streets don't even know. But then, why care? The new colors have been installed everywhere, replacing every Soviet symbol with a "modern" analogue. This is just one more step forward in the course. "Shift from communism"? Wake up people, Russia has been a violent capitalist oligarchy for the last 20 years. There's no "communism" left anywhere here. I feel like a stranded shard of the former Soviet empire and so do many people, but nostalgia isn't the same as political order. In any case, I'll see how this withstands the hate of soldiers and pilots. Last time they tried it, it didn't work, might not work this time either.

[Count Chocula]

Stas, you seem to be painting a picture of anarchism or gangsterism thinly veiled as capitalism as the order of the day in Russia, with the conservative (i.e. pre-Perestroika) military forming a sort of cultural levee. With you and the majority of the Russian citizenry as flotsam. Am I close?

If so, this is a far more dire indicator of Russia's predicament than the Western press has been reporting.

EDITED for spelling error.

[K. A. Pital]

Stas, you seem to be painting a picture of anarchism or gangsterism thinly veiled as capitalism as the order of the day in Russia, with the conservative (i.e. pre-Perestroika) military forming a sort of cultural levee. With you and the majority of the Russian citizenry as flotsam. Am I close?

Gangsterism? Oh no. It's just typical Third World capitalism. We're only not Third World thanks to the industrialization. Remove that from the equation, and the social order in Russia is the Randian "natural selection" in it's vilest form.

Cultural levee in the military? Oh, far from that - the cultural levee is mostly the elderly (40 and above) people. Though it's true the military is also more rigid and conservative than other segments of Russian society (I can't believe I'm using the word "conservative" in a positive sense, but so it is...).

If so, this is a far more dire indicator of Russia's predicament than the Western press has been reporting.

The Russian capitalism, no matter how vile it is, operates still and is modestly stable. I don't think it's as unstable as some Third World nations, but it's definetely gearing on a road to self-destruction, losing technical expertise and entire industries very fast in favour of simply trading raw materials and Western goods. If Russia does not undergo an industrial revival, our perspectives don't look well, but the same can be said of many nations.

[Count Chocula]

but it's definetely gearing on a road to self-destruction, losing technical expertise and entire industries very fast in favour of simply trading raw materials and Western goods.

That's the Venezuela or Dubai model...where's the intellectual capital? Russia has a LOT of engineers and mathemeticians per capita, and plenty of smarts to develop intellectual property. It seems pointless to grow an economy based only on the resource side of a mercantile model; that only lasts as long as a country's resources are available for cheap extraction.

Is this regression being driven by the oligarchs who seem to be in control of Russia? If so, are they even aware of the damage they are doing to the country, that will affect their own children? From what you are describing, this sounds as bad as, or worse than, 1800s England or late 1700's America WRT a limited resource export-based economy.

[K. A. Pital]

That's the Venezuela or Dubai model...where's the intellectual capital? Russia has a LOT of engineers and mathemeticians per capita, and plenty of smarts to develop intellectual property. It seems pointless to grow an economy based only on the resource side of a mercantile model; that only lasts as long as a country's resources are available for cheap extraction.

"Pointless"? How about profitable? And I mean profitable as very profitable, in the immediate term. What fuck would the oligarch care about Russia if he has his property and profits accumulated from raw resource trade stored in offshore funds and several houses in Europe and some tropical island villa to boot? That's the most common case with Third World nations, and now it's something Russia experiences as well. There's enough oil for them to cash in on the superprofits; everything else is basically redundant.

If so, are they even aware of the damage they are doing to the country, that will affect their own children?

Yes, they are. Here's an insight into the mind of an oligarch. You might find that enlightening about what kind of "allegiance" the Russian capitalists really "hold" to their people.

Alfred Koch interview:

Q: Often people from the press tell about enterprises, which were sold for a fraction of their price, and say that the people were robbed.

A: Well, the people weren't robbed, because none of it belonged to the people. How can you rob someone to whom it doesn't belong? [...]

Q: Some voice an opinion, that there's a catastrophe in Russia and economic future is ghostly. What do you think?

A: I think the same.

Q: No light in the end of the tonnel?

A: No.

Q: What's your prognose for Russia's economic future?

A: Raw materials-producing appendage. The emigration of all people who can think, but cannot work (I mean - physically), which can only invent. After that - desintegration, turning into dozens of ministates.

Q: And how long do you think this desintegration will last?

A: I think, 10-15 years... You see, for 70 years, as the world capitalist economy formed, Russia, or Soviet Union, which was like out of it, developed separately, on it's own laws. And the world capitalism system has formed without the Soviet Union. And now it's self-sufficient, it has all resources it needs. And now that Russia has appeared, no one needs it (Laughter) There's no place for it in the world economy, no one even needs it's oil or aluminium now. Russia only spoils profits, because of it's price dumping. So, I think, our fate is sad, clearly.

Q: Do you prognose a flow of investment into Russia, will it be as large as people expect?

A: No, because no one needs Russia (laughter), no one needs Russia at all (laughter), don't you understand?!

Q: But Russia has colossal economic and human resources, and working for the Russian market...

A: What resources does Russia have? I want to put an end to that myth. Oil? It's cheaper and warmer in the Persian Gulf. Nickel is mined in Canada, aluminium - in America, coal - in Australia. Forests - in Brazil. What's so special about Russia?

Q: But to trade with Russia, a huge country, which wants to buy, buy, buy (consumer goods)...

A: To buy, you need money. Russians cannot make anything, thus neither can they buy anything.

Q: So, you see no future?

A: Me? No. (Laughter) Well, if Primakov sees any, let him work (laughter), I, as soon as I don't see them, I went off from the government [in fact, he was fired, not "went off" - SB]

Q: What do you think about the economic policy of Russian government? Do you think it can return to old methods?

A: What the hell sort of importance does this have? No matter what, Russia is a bankrupt country.

Q: And you think no methods of economy will save Russia?

A: I think, it's pointless to.

[...]

Q: You views on Russia's future are rather grim...

A: Yes, grim. And why the hell should it be happy? (Laughter)

Quite clearly it will not affect neither them, nor their children, who have property abroad, education abroad and housing abroad. So we're talking about people who have nothing to fear and nothing to gain by developing Russia instead of turning it into a raw-resource appendage. Putin may look tough, but he isn't the master of the "Russian chaebols" I fear. And if you can't make the chaebols invest into the local economy, too bad for you.

[Patrick Degan]

Ye Godz, this clown sounds like a Randroid. Most sickening to see just how much contempt they hold their own country and people in, that is if they can be bothered to care about the issue at all.

[K. A. Pital]

Ye Godz, this clown sounds like a Randroid.

That's one of the men put in charge of the reforms in Russia in the 90s. Little wonder the results were... rather dissappointing.

[Vympel]

I've not seen any VVS fighter in current photographs bearing this new roundel. I've seen it precisely once, on an Mi-8MT. Even VVS' new MiG-29SMTs (the ones they got since Algeria returned them) have red stars:-



As do both of the new Su-35 (T-10BM, not T-10M) prototypes.