Opinions which really do prove stupidity

[Darth Wong]

In politics, many opinions are often held up as proof that the other person is an idiot. Of course, the problem is that people tend to do this on a tribal basis, ie- conservatives consider any liberal opinions to be proof of stupidity and liberals do the opposite. And then you have the Mindless Middle, which takes the opposite tack and declares that BOTH sides' opinions indicate stupidity because the reasonable conclusion is always in the middle. And finally, you have the super open-minded brigade, which declares that NOTHING is proof of stupidity and every opinion has some validity to it.

The super open-minded brigade is clearly out to lunch: nobody would take someone seriously if he (for example) still believes in Santa Claus as an adult. So there are clearly opinions which can totally demolish someone's credibility in the eyes of virtually everyone. The question is: disregarding fanciful and extremely rare opinions, which opinions should legitimately belong in this category?

One good example for me is Noah's Ark. I started picking apart the flaws in this one when I was a child, and I personally think that if a child can see the logical flaws in the story, then there's really no excuse for an adult not to. The instant someone says he believes in the Noah's Ark story as an adult, I conclude that he's an idiot. A general belief in God may indicate a certain level of irrationality, but that's on a completely different level than accepting the Noah's Ark story as literal history. Mind you, since YECs generally believe Noah's Ark to be literal history, this serves as an indirect indictment of all YECs as well.

Can anyone come up with any other examples of something which you can justify as a litmus test for idiocy? And don't just start throwing out bad political ideas. A lot of smart people have bought into bad ideas for various reasons. I single out Noah's Ark because it has glaring logical flaws which can make an 8 year old kid raise his eyebrows, not just a university-trained expert.

[TrailerParkJawa]

What about Adam and Eve and the idea that all of us are decended from just two people? As a kid my first thought was "doesnt that mean Adam and Eve's children had to have sex with each other?". Granted, I'm honestly not too familar with the story but blind belief in it seems to present a lot of problems.

[wautd]

Noah's Ark is offcourse a classic which is hard to top in terms of stupidity, but for another example I'll go for astrology. Propably vastly underrated in terms of the number of people who believe in it (after all, you can be of any faith and still believe in astrology on the side).

Homeopathy. I acknowledge the existance of the placebo effect but comon, it's just expensive water you're drinking

Veganism. I cannot see how for a normal person this can be healthy in any way

[Darth Wong]

Yeah, but that falls into the same category as Noah's Ark: part of a general package of YEC beliefs. Can anyone think of anything outside YEC which is similarly so stupid that even a child can see through it?

PS. Mind you, a lot of children don't know why inbreeding is bad. Even a child should think to ask himself how the fuck Noah acquired and kept penguins and polar bears in the Middle East.

[Morilore]

Well, let me right now nominate "abortion is murder - but it's OK when she's a rape victim," since I'm more inclined to attribute people believing that to sheer intellectual laziness and refusal to examine one's own position than to the malicious misogynism which really created that idea. I know I saw through that one as a child.

Yeah, but that falls into the same category as Noah's Ark: part of a general package of YEC beliefs. Can anyone think of anything outside YEC which is similarly so stupid that even a child can see through it?

In real issues politics (i.e. economics and foreign policy), a lot of stupid ideas need some prior knowledge of history or government for people to understand why they are stupid, so a lot of people might be, for example, hardcore (American anarcho-capitalist) libertarians because they don't understand the mechanisms of government or the market or the historical examples that parallel the true outcome of such a society. Probably total anarchism falls into this "even a child" category, because "even a child" can understand the function of police and armies and why some things, like guns, need to be controlled by government.

[Junghalli]

Oh yeah, I totally second what Morilore said about the "abortion is murder, except in case of rape" crowd. If you try to think logically about their position at all it just screams out "I haven't thought this through at all".

A litmus test for being a total cockhead for me is if you're one of those libertarians who defend parental "rights" to do things like have your child circumcised just because, or deny your child antibiotics because of your religion. They're so obsessed with the precious rights of parents being infringed, but they never pause to think of the right of the child not to have grievous harm done to them on the mad whims of fucktard parents.

[Coyote]

I almost hesitate to bring up any Biblical Literalism because I don't think DW wants to limit this to religious-only type opinions, but rather to keep this open to the broad spectrum of stupidity available to us, even in the secular level. But even though I myself participate in religion, I find the notion of taking everything in the Bible 100% true and literally is dumb. Especially for Christianity, which includes the sequel called the New Testament.

Add to that the following:
Moon landing conspiracy types.
9-11 "truthers".
"UN Taking over America" conspiracy buffs.
People who think the government has weather-control machines that create tornadoes to kill the poor, because the poor live disproportionately in trailer parks.

In fact, pretty much most of the conspiracy theorist movements today are just dumb.

[General Zod]

What about Adam and Eve and the idea that all of us are decended from just two people? As a kid my first thought was "doesnt that mean Adam and Eve's children had to have sex with each other?". Granted, I'm honestly not too familar with the story but blind belief in it seems to present a lot of problems.

That doesn't seem quite as bad at first because it can be rationalized to a degree, when you consider royalty inter-married all the time in the past. What's more bizarre is the fact that when Cain was exiled from Eden, he somehow took a wife who came from. . .uh. Where again? Either God was creating about other races of humanoids outside Eden or there's something else going on that just doesn't jive with the Bible.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Quotards - people who believe that all concern over any kind of impending crisis is at best misguided but well meant, and at worst the acting out of snooty lefties trying to guilt-trip them for being socially and politically apathetic. They seem to think that society somehow "maintains itself" and that market activity or oil shortages will provide unusual hiccups in their luxuriant lifestyles or at most a minor, relative contraction of disposable income, but on the whole any kind of concern over worrisome social trends is completely unfounded.

These are also people who tend not to lift a finger over existing "normal" injustices like mistreatment of homosexuals, because on the whole they don't have it so bad and should just shut up and stop complaining.

[Darth Wong]

Please try to explain why you think even a child should be able to see through these things, rather than just listing off things you think are stupid. For example, while conspiracy theories tend to be stupid, I suspect that a lot of people who are poorly versed in logic and science might get taken in by this "moon landing hoax" or "9/11 truth" arguments. They're certainly stupid by my standards as a university-educated technical professional, but those are relatively high standards. By the standards of an ordinary average person, they're not stupid.

The REALLY stupid ideas would never survive without massive social pressure, like the pressure which keeps Noah's Ark alive.

[CarsonPalmer]

Holocaust deniers, who allege that the whole thing was made up. A kid as young as eight is able to realize how many different people saw the camps, and how impossible it is that they were all in on the conspiracy.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Well, for my suggestion, I think most children can know an unsustainable lifestyle when they see one; they simply often get confused into accepting them because they assume that if a grownup is doing it, then they must have some kind of plan at work that they can't see. In other words, they figure it out, but a combination of social inertia and evolutionary biology that causes them to be trusting of adults confounds their realization - which is how most children who can see Noah's Ark for what it is get pulled back around to supporting it.

[Darth Wong]

Ah yes, that's a good one. I recall scoffing at Holocaust Deniers even when I was a kid.

Also, people who sink deep into debt while continuing to do things like going on vacations and buying luxury items. I figured out that was dumb long before becoming an adult.

[Solauren]

"If it's on TV / in Print, it must be true!"

More of a belief then opinion, but still, very stupid IMHO.

How could a child figure it out?

Once they get to a certain age, kids are going to figure out animals can't talk, and things should progress from that point...

[wautd]

I've heared some bad explanations from heavy smokers who'd try to rationalize their addiction (but I guess that counts for any addiction)

[Coyote]

Conspiracy theories are almost always overly-complex, and seem to imply that almost no major event in the world takes place without some sort of massive government conspiracy. A government that could pull off these incredibly complex theories and go to such great lengths to back them up (including creating back-stories for astronauts, pay off their families not to squeal, etc)... the amount of resources required to fabricate and support the conspiracies may as well be invested in the real thing, at least as far as Moon landings and the like.

Why would a government that could control the weather use it to randomly kill a handful of rednecks once or twice a year? Why not use that technology to make wind and solar farms so useful that we can abandon Middle East Oil? It makes no sense that a government that could control the weather would pretend not to just so they can fool... who? And to what ends?

I think ordinary people could easily see through most conspiracy theories if they devoted more than a couple minutes' thought to them. And to be fair, DW, you brought up an example of something you saw through as a kid but didn't necessarily say that "what a child could see through" would be the bar for all examples.

[wautd]

Speaking of Holocaust denial, what about racism in general? People who love to generalize a group of people are seldom a bright light

[AMT]

Probably just a bit of a me-too, but those who think that any sort of social ill is brought about by the Government, and the Free Market is better for everything.

That, along with the "you fall down in life, you should pick yourself back up... unless it happens to me" crowd when it comes to social services.

[Morilore]

It's probably easier to find stupidity (as opposed to ignorance and misinformation) in people's personal conduct than in their political opinions, but since this is the News and Politics forum... "massive social pressure"... hmm...

Would Social Darwinism fall into this category? A child should be able to understand that there are certain things in life that no amount of virtue can prepare for, and when those things happen the people who have more money are going to be able to deal with it better, and it doesn't mean they deserve more.

Speaking of Holocaust denial, what about racism in general? People who love to generalize a group of people are seldom a bright light

If you grow up in a completely racist society, you are going to be a racist no matter how smart you are. People were picking apart Noah's Ark back when they thought that black people had to be slaves because they looked better-suited to manual labor.

Probably just a bit of a me-too, but those who think that any sort of social ill is brought about by the Government, and the Free Market is better for everything.

That, along with the "you fall down in life, you should pick yourself back up... unless it happens to me" crowd when it comes to social services.

That's not an opinion. What people actually think is that "it will never happen to me" or "OK, we need safety nets for this specific type of failure that happened to me but otherwise pick yourself up."

[cosmicalstorm]

People who buy into 'get rich quick'-schemes.

We had a guy show up in my hometown when I was 11 or something and start putting huge ads in the local newspapers proclaiming that anyone who invested ~$500 into his "brand new multimedia product" were basically guaranteed to get $30.000-$40.000 back in no less than two or three years.
I figured that was almost impossible, and I was wondering why the hell he was telling anyone about this and not just taking out a bankloan and doing the investment on his own, amazingly hundreds of people bought into this after seeing one of his "seminars" including a pair of our neighbours. Of course they never saw any money come back.

[Zixinus]

My first knee-jerk thought was "ban all guns" but that's actually a very complicated topic and I can see why otherwise intelligent people take this position.

I can't speak on behalf of Yanks, but around, the idea was thrown about that Hungary should get back its old Austro-Hungarian (or even medieval!) territories.

The idea is so retarded, that I won't waste my time dissecting it.

[Kodiak]

1. As a kid I remember chain-letters being super-ridiculous: "If I send out 100 letters to people, each with a dollar, then 10,000 people will send me back a dollar!"

2. The 9/11 "truther" movement seems easy enough for kids to see through, as there's video evidence to the contrary, thousands of eye witnesses, and not a single person who's come forward to claim any involvement with the so-called conspiracy.

3. That Christianity has no external influence. I remember getting into an argument w/ my mother a few years back that eggs and bunnies at easter were hold-overs from pagan fertility festivals while she exclaimed that they were symbols of "rebirth" and "the empty tomb!" and such.

It seems that the opinion that you couldn't possibly be wrong is proof enough to show stupidity.

[Junghalli]

Would Social Darwinism fall into this category? A child should be able to understand that there are certain things in life that no amount of virtue can prepare for, and when those things happen the people who have more money are going to be able to deal with it better, and it doesn't mean they deserve more.

Randtard ideologies might actually be a fairly good example of those "ideas that would fall apart instantly without massive social pressure" Darth Wong was talking about. They are blatantly sociopathic, and I suspect the only reason so many Americans don't see this is because they live in a culture that primes them to accept them.

[Oskuro]

Already mentioned, but anyway:

Smokers defending their addiction. From stupid rationalizations about how it isn't as bad as people say, to full-blown conspiracy theories and persecution complexes.

This could be said about all addictions, but in the case of smoking, a child could tell you that it is disgusting, and makes her dizzy or worse. And children could also see how forcing people around you to breathe your second-hand smoke is not only a sign of idiocy, but a sign of extreme shelfisness (aka being an asshole).

Just as with Noah's Ark, it's peer pressure that keeps smoking acceptable, and even worse, it's peer pressure what gets people into the habit in the first place.

[Elfdart]

I was about five or six years old when I came to the conclusion that anyone who believed people and dinosaurs lived at the same time was too stupid to pass kindergarten with the rest of us.

I always adhere to George Carlin's three-part test:

Stupid, Full of Shit, and Fuckin' NUTS!