A NINE-YEAR-OLD girl who was carrying twins, allegedly after being raped by her stepfather, underwent an abortion today despite complaints from Brazil's Roman Catholic church.
Police said the stepfather has been jailed since last week, the Associated Press (AP) reported.
Abortion is illegal in Brazil, but judges can make exceptions if the mother's life is in danger or the fetus has no chance of survival.
Fatima Maia, director of the public university hospital where the abortion was performed, said the 15-week-old pregnancy posed a serious risk to the 36-kilogram girl, AP reported.
"She is very small. Her uterus doesn't have the ability to hold one, let alone two children," Ms Maia told the Jornal do Brasil newspaper.
But Marcio Miranda, a lawyer for the Archdiocese of Olinda and Recife in northeastern Brazil, said the girl should have carried the twins to term and had a cesarean section, AP reported.
Fuck the Catholic Church and their shitty religion. That's my position on the matter.
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi
"Problem is, while the Germans have had many mea culpas and quite painfully dealt with their history, the South is still hellbent on painting themselves as the real victims. It gives them a special place in the history of assholes" - Covenant
"Over three million died fighting for the emperor, but when the war was over he pretended it was not his responsibility. What kind of man does that?'' - Saburo Sakai
What? 9 YO and the Catholics want to basically risk killing her to give birth to twin offspring of family abuse rape? Awesome. But then, we knew why the Catholic church loves Latin America. They feel this den of backwardness could be their next stronghold because Europe, East and West, is mostly secularized already (or follows a different religion), and the USA is the lair of evangelists. SO they help to propagate their backward views in every publicity case they can. Shitheads.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
bobalot wrote:
Fuck the Catholic Church and their shitty religion. That's my position on the matter.
Seriously, they don't allow abortion even when the girl is in danger?
Nope. The seed of a rapist father was far more important than the life of the 9 year old rape victim. Religion has this absolutist bullshit that defies all decency.
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi
"Problem is, while the Germans have had many mea culpas and quite painfully dealt with their history, the South is still hellbent on painting themselves as the real victims. It gives them a special place in the history of assholes" - Covenant
"Over three million died fighting for the emperor, but when the war was over he pretended it was not his responsibility. What kind of man does that?'' - Saburo Sakai
Stas Bush wrote:What? 9 YO and the Catholics want to basically risk killing her to give birth to twin offspring of family abuse rape? Awesome. But then, we knew why the Catholic church loves Latin America. They feel this den of backwardness could be their next stronghold because Europe, East and West, is mostly secularized already (or follows a different religion), and the USA is the lair of evangelists. SO they help to propagate their backward views in every publicity case they can. Shitheads.
I remember from my senior year theology class at a Jesuit high school that the absolute most Catholicism might allow is for a woman to undergo uterine scraping immediately after a rape in order to protect against STDs. As long is she doesn't intend to also get rid of the fertilized egg, it is not a mortal sin. Maybe in 1000 years the Space Pope will allow abortions in the case of incest.
bobalot wrote:
Fuck the Catholic Church and their shitty religion. That's my position on the matter.
Seriously, they don't allow abortion even when the girl is in danger?
Nope. The seed of a rapist father was far more important than the life of the 9 year old rape victim. Religion has this absolutist bullshit that defies all decency.
I mean to some extend I can understand people being averse to abortion if there is much less harm to a woman and a girl, being a willingly partner in the sexual act, didn't bother to think about the whole abortion issue in a rational manner and the girl wanting to have a child during the sexual act and changing her mind halfway, but this is ridiculous beyond ridiculous.
I mean if the girl end up as dead due to this pregnancy, the fetus in her womb will not survive as well. It gets extremely annoying when the anti-abortion crowd likes to label the pro-choice crowd as people who enjoys abortions. Painting us as people who would want every single pregnancy to be aborted.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
Well, at least they're consistent, unlike the mindless middle "no abortion except for rape" crowd.
Still, there's no way the poor girl could have carried the twins long enough to perform a proper c-section, and doing it too early is effectively just a really messy way of abortion.
Fragment of the Lord of Nightmares, release thy heavenly retribution. Blade of cold, black nothingness: become my power, become my body. Together, let us walk the path of destruction and smash even the souls of the Gods! RAGNA BLADE!
Lore Monkey | the Pichu-master™
Secularism—since AD 80
Av: Elika; Prince of Persia
bobalot wrote:
Fuck the Catholic Church and their shitty religion. That's my position on the matter.
Seriously, they don't allow abortion even when the girl is in danger?
Stas Bush wrote:What? 9 YO and the Catholics want to basically risk killing her to give birth to twin offspring of family abuse rape?
That is indeed the case. The Catholic Church opposes abortion in all cases, even to save the life of the mother. Something about leaving it in God's hands or something.
ray245 wrote:I mean if the girl end up as dead due to this pregnancy, the fetus in her womb will not survive as well.
Yes, but the girl will have a chance at heaven because she didn't kill her baby, she let God do that, and the baby, being unborn, will not be touched by original sin so it automatically goes straight to heaven. Isn't that wonderful? [>gag<]
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
On the bright side, stuff like this probably helps undermine people's loyalty to the Church. Some very small proportion of congregants looks at stuff like this and realizes that they're groveling to an organization that doesn't give a shit about its adherents. And that very small proportion will grow.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
Broomstick wrote:Yes, but the girl will have a chance at heaven because she didn't kill her baby, she let God do that, and the baby, being unborn, will not be touched by original sin so it automatically goes straight to heaven. Isn't that wonderful? [>gag<]
Wouldn't the babies go to limbo, in the CC's view of things? I thought they had to be baptized to go to heaven. Of course, I'm no expert on Catholicism. However, if that were the case, then no matter what she did she couldn't win from their point of view.
"I wish I wish I hadn't killed that fish." - Homer Simpson
Huh. That's less than 10 condoms per person. Though, assuming an even split between gender, that's almost 20 condoms per penis, so I certainly hope that would suffice for the three weeks they're there. -Alferd Packer
Kanastrous wrote:On the bright side, stuff like this probably helps undermine people's loyalty to the Church. Some very small proportion of congregants looks at stuff like this and realizes that they're groveling to an organization that doesn't give a shit about its adherents. And that very small proportion will grow.
How do you know that will happen? For all you know, they will sneer at this girl and say that she deserves to burn in Hell, and this incident will only stoke their fears about the liberal takeover of their society, thus strengthening their fundie resolve.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
NomAnor15 wrote:Wouldn't the babies go to limbo, in the CC's view of things? I thought they had to be baptized to go to heaven. Of course, I'm no expert on Catholicism. However, if that were the case, then no matter what she did she couldn't win from their point of view.
Last I heard, the Vatican no longer endorses the concept of Limbo. I don't know where they now send the unbaptized babies and "virtuous pagans" (ie people who died without ever being exposed to Christianity), though.
Kanastrous wrote:On the bright side, stuff like this probably helps undermine people's loyalty to the Church. Some very small proportion of congregants looks at stuff like this and realizes that they're groveling to an organization that doesn't give a shit about its adherents. And that very small proportion will grow.
How do you know that will happen? For all you know, they will sneer at this girl and say that she deserves to burn in Hell, and this incident will only stoke their fears about the liberal takeover of their society, thus strengthening their fundie resolve.
Nope this is EXACTLY what I said challenged my faith in your other thread Mike, if the church sets itself up as the ultimate authority on God, and then stakes this position it causes people lime m to first question our commitment to the church (Which in my case is nearly nonexistent) and then question their belief in what the church has told us.
"Since when is "the west" a nation?"-Styphon "ACORN= Cobra obviously." AMT
This topic is... oh Village Idiot. Carry on then.--Havok
Stas Bush wrote:What? 9 YO and the Catholics want to basically risk killing her to give birth to twin offspring of family abuse rape? Awesome. But then, we knew why the Catholic church loves Latin America. They feel this den of backwardness could be their next stronghold because Europe, East and West, is mostly secularized already (or follows a different religion), and the USA is the lair of evangelists. SO they help to propagate their backward views in every publicity case they can. Shitheads.
It even has it's supporters among the nerd community.
I stick to the same opinion I have at SB.com. This is tragic, and unfortunate, but it is the lesser of two evils. The docs made a judgment call, and it was we kill the fetuses, or we lose them and the mother. I do not envy anyone having to make that decision.
"Impossible! Lasers can't even harm out deflector dish! Clearly these foes are masters of illusion!' 'But sir, my console says we-' 'MASTERS OF ILLUSION! - General Schatten
Darth Wong wrote:Yeah, but you come from a relatively modern secular nation compared to these Latin American shitholes. Your reaction might be a lot different.
Brazil is comparatively modern, I have a lot of friends from Brazil, and I have been there a few times to visit. There is a lot of conflict going on between traditional church views and modern secular ideas, this could easily become a rallying point.
"Since when is "the west" a nation?"-Styphon "ACORN= Cobra obviously." AMT
This topic is... oh Village Idiot. Carry on then.--Havok
Despite all the RCC's whining, at least the abortion was actually carried out by people who do have some ability for rational thought and it would seem this is even perfectly legal in Brazil, since giving birth under those conditions objectively poses a serious risk to her life and health.
Might get some or many of the zealots angry, but they couldn't do a thing to stop it.
Last edited by scythewielder on 2009-03-06 01:07pm, edited 1 time in total.
Darth Wong wrote:Well of course there are people who support that nonsense at SB. SB is a haven for fundie shitheads.
Believe me, I know. What irks me about EmperorSolo's idiocy is that in the country in question, Abortions are illegal without a judge authorizing them, usually done only when survival is not an option. You would think that when a country as heavily Catholic as Brazil, where the laws in this case seem to cater to the Church, and you can only get an abortion when a judge is told by multiple doctors that saving the child is simply not an option, they would understand that its simply a choice of trying to save as many lives as possible.
Someone called him on that hypocrisy in the thread. True to form, he ignored it, and tried to act like he had more authority on teh situation than the trained doctors.
"Impossible! Lasers can't even harm out deflector dish! Clearly these foes are masters of illusion!' 'But sir, my console says we-' 'MASTERS OF ILLUSION! - General Schatten
I'm posting from a phone and can't post quotes and such, but a BBC story mentioned that the Church intends to excommunicate the doctors and mother, but not the previously pregnant child.
That's when you send Rome the message to "kiss my ass, I've got a job to do and lives to actually try and save."
"Impossible! Lasers can't even harm out deflector dish! Clearly these foes are masters of illusion!' 'But sir, my console says we-' 'MASTERS OF ILLUSION! - General Schatten
Excommunicating a nine year old rape victim is absolutely dumb, even by already pathetic RCC standards, so there's a small chance that part may just be hot air fueled by rage, but even if it isn't...I hope the doctors have a conscience of their own and are sufficiently convinced they did the right thing.
Last edited by scythewielder on 2009-03-06 01:24pm, edited 2 times in total.
scythewielder wrote:Excommunicating a nine year old rape victim is absolutely dumb, even by already pathetic RCC standards, so there's a small chance that part may just be hot air fueled by rage, but even if it isn't...I hope the doctors have a conscience of their own and are sufficiently convinced they did the right thing.
They're semi intelligent in that they appear to be leaving the girl alone, and instead going after the mother and the doctors. Still despicable though.
"Impossible! Lasers can't even harm out deflector dish! Clearly these foes are masters of illusion!' 'But sir, my console says we-' 'MASTERS OF ILLUSION! - General Schatten
