Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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Independent
'Israel lobby' blamed as Obama's choice for intelligence chief quits

Veteran diplomat attacks wilful distortions that 'plumb the depths of dishonour'

By Rupert Cornwell in Washington

Fears over the Jewish lobby's excess influence on US foreign policy flared anew yesterday after a former diplomat and strong critic of Israel backed out of a key national intelligence post, saying his appointment by President Barack Obama had been torpedoed by a campaign of lies against him.

Charles Freeman, a veteran diplomat hugely experienced in Middle Eastern affairs, had been chosen to head the National Intelligence Council, the body that delivers to the White House influential and highly sensitive reports synthesising the views of the country's 16 intelligence agencies.

But, on Wednesday, he withdrew his name from consideration, declaring he had fallen victim to what he called the "Israel lobby". Its campaign, he charged, had "plumbed the depths of dishonour and indecency," including "wilful distortion of the record, the fabrication of falsehoods, and an utter disregard for the truth".

The lobbying against his appointment included a phone call from Charles Schumer, a Democratic Senator, to Rahm Emanuel, the White House Chief of Staff, reminding him that Mr Freeman had shown "an irrational hatred of Israel" in past comments. Mr Emanuel is a strong defender of Israel's interests.

The loss of Mr Freeman, a former ambassador to Saudi Arabia under the first president Bush, suggests that Mr Obama's ability to make significant changes in US policy in the Middle East will be severely limited by domestic political reality. As such, it raises the question of how far Mr Obama will be able – or willing – to stand up to Benjamin Netanyahu, the hardline Likud party leader who is all but certain to become Israel's next prime minister. Their relationship will be crucial for the important decisions looming over the Palestinian conflict and Iran's suspected nuclear weapons programme.

Yesterday, supporters of Israel, even as they quietly revelled in Mr Freeman's departure, claimed the most important objections to him were his links to Saudi Arabia and some past expressions of support for repressive policies by China's leadership. His true sin, however, was to have spoken out against Israeli policies with a forthrightness almost never heard in Washington. Indeed, one top pro-Israeli activist recently described his views on the Middle East as "what you would expect in the Saudi foreign ministry".

A trenchant critic of the harsh Israeli responses to attacks from Hizbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza, Mr Freeman has long maintained that the Jewish state's policies were self-defeating. Yesterday, he repeated that charge in an interview with The New York Times, saying Israel was "driving itself towards a cliff". It was "irresponsible to not question Israeli policy and to decide what is best for the American people," he said.

Those words exactly reflect the thesis of the 2007 book The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy that generated huge controversy by asserting that American policy was slavishly aligned to Israel thanks to the efforts of the Jewish state's supporters, to the detriment of underlying US interests.

For Stephen Walt, one of the book's authors, the Freeman row has proved the point. As he put it yesterday: "For all of you out there who may have questioned whether there was a powerful "Israel lobby," or who admitted that it existed but didn't think it had much influence, or who thought that the real problem was some supposedly all-powerful "Saudi lobby," – think again."

The victory of Mr Obama, who as a child lived in a Muslim country, raised hopes that he would see the Middle East through radically different eyes. But the new administration's deeds have been cautious. The Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, has hewed to a conventional line, while Dennis Ross, her special adviser for Iran and Gulf issues, is seen as sympathetic to Israel.

Congress unfailingly supports Israel. Pat Buchanan, a right-wing commentator and erstwhile presidential candidate, once described Capitol Hill as "Israeli-occupied territory".
Glenn Greenwald points out that the leader of the lynch mob was Steve Rosen, who is awaiting trial for being an Israeli spy:
Prior to the announcement that the Freeman appointment was terminated, Max Blumenthal documented that the man leading the anti-Freeman assault was Steve Rosen, the long-time AIPAC official currently on trial for violations of the Espionage Act in connection with the transmission of classified U.S. information intended for Israel.
And like the vultures they are, Greater Israel's fanwhores are jumping for joy that their hit job worked, while hinting that anyone who points out the Israel Lobby pulled a train on Freeman is an anti-Semite. Greenwald has more on this here.

Imagine if Alger Hiss, awaiting trial on charges that he was a Russian spy, had led a media lynch mob against a government appointee on the grounds that the candidate was anti-Soviet. Imagine that any mainstream media outlet would run a piece by another Stalinist hack calling the smear job "patriotic". Imagine that other media outlets smugly pooh-poohing the idea that it was a Soviet hit job. Can't do it, can you?

Yet that's EXACTLY what we have here: Steve Rosen, under indictment as a traitor and Israeli spy led the smear campaign against Freeman on the grounds that Freeman was "anti-Israel", and along comes IDF camp follower Alan Dershowitz, who recently praised the murder of children in Gaza, calling the smear campaign "patriotic". Maybe if your first loyalty is to Greater Israel.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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I object to it being called a Jewish Lobby. Call it what it is, the Israel or Pro-Israel Lobby.

There are probably more American Christians by head-count who blindly support whatever mischief the Israelis get up to than there are American Jews who do so.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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Kanastrous wrote:I object to it being called a Jewish Lobby. Call it what it is, the Israel or Pro-Israel Lobby.

There are probably more American Christians by head-count who blindly support whatever mischief the Israelis get up to than there are American Jews who do so.
I noticed British papers often don't make the distinction -though they probably should. The problem is the fact that right-wing Israelis and their groupies in the US keep claiming that Israel represents all Jews, and that attacks on Israel are attacks on all Jews. This in spite of the fact that most American Jews aren't Likudniks and a large percentage of the younger generation is much less pro-Israel than their elders.

I refer to them as the Greater Israel Lobby, since it's not so much people who have affinity for a country where they might have friends or family (like any other country), but fanwhores for Likud and their Lebensraum policies.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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The fact that AIPAC gets treated so damn well and courteously by nearly all of the Congress and political establishment in spite of this:
For more than half a century, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee has worked to help make Israel more secure by ensuring that American support remains strong.
has always mystified me (although perhaps it shouldn't, considering the strength the Cuban-Americans in south Florida had in blocking any lifting of the embargo on Cuba). It's not illegal to lobby on behalf of another country, and I'm positive that most of the AIPAC people believe that helping Israel helps the US. But still .. .

Imagine if someone started a major Pro-Soviet Union lobbying organization run by a group of Russian-Americans in the middle of the Cold War - one that openly said its goal was to help make the Soviet Union secure by ensuring that America supported it to the hilt, that went around giving out money and other aid to nearly the entire Congressional establishment, and which heavily pressured the US to give unconditional aid and money to the Soviet Union regardless of any bad shit the Soviet government did. What do you think the public response would have been?

I'm sure the people running it might have had good intentions and believed that it was helping America as well, but the organization would still probably have been treated with contempt and disdain, no doubt infiltrated by the FBI, if not openly attacked and shut down by a House Un-American Activities Committee.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

Post by Samuel »

I'm sure the people running it might have had good intentions and believed that it was helping America as well, but the organization would still probably have been treated with contempt and disdain, no doubt infiltrated by the FBI, if not openly attacked and shut down by a House Un-American Activities Committee.
That is correct as that happened to the American Communist Party whose purpose was exactly that. I'm not certain about infiltration, but its members were watched by the FBI.

The difference is that we were antagonists with the USSR- a better example would be a pro-South Africa lobby prior to the 90s or pro-German lobby before US entry in either war.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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Samuel wrote:
I'm sure the people running it might have had good intentions and believed that it was helping America as well, but the organization would still probably have been treated with contempt and disdain, no doubt infiltrated by the FBI, if not openly attacked and shut down by a House Un-American Activities Committee.
That is correct as that happened to the American Communist Party whose purpose was exactly that. I'm not certain about infiltration, but its members were watched by the FBI.

The difference is that we were antagonists with the USSR- a better example would be a pro-South Africa lobby prior to the 90s or pro-German lobby before US entry in either war.
That's probably correct, although as far as I know there wasn't so much an actual German Lobby (in that there were multiple organizations dedicated to lobbying on Germany's behalf) so much as a large contingent of the population was sympathetic to Germany.

I'm not opposed to the latter, and the former, as I mentioned, isn't illegal - it is perfectly within one's rights to lobby on behalf of another country. However, I think we need to remember that they are lobbies for another nation.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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Cute, Elfdart. Because you know, the last thing we need is someone who is a total sycophant for the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia directing our policy in the middle east.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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MKSheppard wrote:Cute, Elfdart. Because you know, the last thing we need is someone who is a total sycophant for the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia directing our policy in the middle east.
Why is he a total sycophant for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia?
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

Post by Redleader34 »

MKSheppard wrote:Cute, Elfdart. Because you know, the last thing we need is someone who is a total sycophant for the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia directing our policy in the middle east.
Prove this statement

Related its either Saudi or IRAN HEGEMONY in the middle east, since Egypt is going for a more internal policy herp derp I can be a neo-con too!
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

Post by Samuel »

Redleader34 wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:Cute, Elfdart. Because you know, the last thing we need is someone who is a total sycophant for the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia directing our policy in the middle east.
Prove this statement

Related its either Saudi or IRAN HEGEMONY in the middle east, since Egypt is going for a more internal policy herp derp I can be a neo-con too!
Actually Egypt is 2nd after Israel for American foreign aid. For some reason relating to Israel we give them large amounts of cash as well. We aren't really enemies of the Arab countries- they just tend to be undemocratic with shitty human rights records.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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Elfdart wrote:Imagine if Alger Hiss, awaiting trial on charges that he was a Russian spy, had led a media lynch mob against a government appointee on the grounds that the candidate was anti-Soviet.
Well there is the little point that the Soviets were the Enemy with a capital E. Israel is widely accepted as a friend and allied. It is one thing to sell out to the enemy, another to be a bit too enthusiastic in supporting ones friends - although the crime might be the same in a strictly legal sence the apperance and political fallout is very different.

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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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MKSheppard wrote:Cute, Elfdart. Because you know, the last thing we need is someone who is a total sycophant for the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia directing our policy in the middle east.
I don't know what you're worried about. Your previous President and Vice President were in bed with the Saudis and everything turned out all right .... wait.


EDIT :: Typo.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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CJvR wrote:
Elfdart wrote:Imagine if Alger Hiss, awaiting trial on charges that he was a Russian spy, had led a media lynch mob against a government appointee on the grounds that the candidate was anti-Soviet.
Well there is the little point that the Soviets were the Enemy with a capital E. Israel is widely accepted as a friend and allied. It is one thing to sell out to the enemy, another to be a bit too enthusiastic in supporting ones friends - although the crime might be the same in a strictly legal sence the apperance and political fallout is very different.

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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

Post by Samuel »

Crown wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:Cute, Elfdart. Because you know, the last thing we need is someone who is a total sycophant for the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia directing our policy in the middle east.
I don't know what you're worried about. Your previous President and Vice President were in bead with the Saudis and everything turned out all right .... wait.
Hey- the government likes us. The populance hates us. Fortunately the government deals with this by funding radical religious groups... okay, once the oil runs out those bastards are on their own.
The first and only loyalty of an employee or agent of the United States government is to America. Anything else, even supporting so called "friends", is simply treason.
Only if we are at war. Otherwise it is technically only sedition if it hurts the US.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

Post by Pelranius »

Samuel wrote:
Crown wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:Cute, Elfdart. Because you know, the last thing we need is someone who is a total sycophant for the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia directing our policy in the middle east.
I don't know what you're worried about. Your previous President and Vice President were in bead with the Saudis and everything turned out all right .... wait.
Hey- the government likes us. The populance hates us. Fortunately the government deals with this by funding radical religious groups... okay, once the oil runs out those bastards are on their own.
The first and only loyalty of an employee or agent of the United States government is to America. Anything else, even supporting so called "friends", is simply treason.
Only if we are at war. Otherwise it is technically only sedition if it hurts the US.
All right, if it's not treason, then who is Jonathan Pollard (for the record, that coward can rot in jail for the rest of his life)
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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Pelranius wrote:
Samuel wrote:Only if we are at war. Otherwise it is technically only sedition if it hurts the US.
All right, if it's not treason, then who is Jonathan Pollard (for the record, that coward can rot in jail for the rest of his life)
Some guy who failed to comprehend the classified info inbrief? He was never tried for treason. He was tried for releasing classified information.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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CJvR wrote:
Elfdart wrote:Imagine if Alger Hiss, awaiting trial on charges that he was a Russian spy, had led a media lynch mob against a government appointee on the grounds that the candidate was anti-Soviet.
Well there is the little point that the Soviets were the Enemy with a capital E. Israel is widely accepted as a friend and allied. It is one thing to sell out to the enemy, another to be a bit too enthusiastic in supporting ones friends - although the crime might be the same in a strictly legal sence the apperance and political fallout is very different.

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Hiss was accused of spying for Russia during WW2, when the United States and Soviet Union were allies. He was only convicted of lying under oath about whether he knew Whittaker Chambers.
Some guy who failed to comprehend the classified info inbrief? He was never tried for treason. He was tried for releasing classified information.
Releasing it on the sly to a foreign government -the same thing other spies are locked up in prison for doing. Last time I checked, espionage was a serious crime in its own right: one that landed Julius and Ethel Rosenberg in the electric chair.

I guess Al Capone wasn't really a gangster since he was "only" convicted of tax evasion.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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Elfdart wrote:Hiss was accused of spying for Russia during WW2, when the United States and Soviet Union were allies. He was only convicted of lying under oath about whether he knew Whittaker Chambers.
But he wasn't tried then, he wasn't even charged until the relations had turned very frosty - in the middle of the Berlin blockade IIRC.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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CJvR wrote:Well there is the little point that the Soviets were the Enemy with a capital E. Israel is widely accepted as a friend and allied. It is one thing to sell out to the enemy, another to be a bit too enthusiastic in supporting ones friends - although the crime might be the same in a strictly legal sence the apperance and political fallout is very different.

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Steve Rosen is on trial for passing classified US information to a foriegn state. That's a great way for Israel to show was a good friend and ally it is. In fact, if it weren't for a large segment of the population whose made Israel a political sacred cow, people would be demanding this guy be hung on espionage charges.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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People are either fanatically supportive of Zionism to the detriment of their own country and basic common sense (let alone ethics) or fanatically so against Israel as to attack random Jews on street, using anti-Zionism as a effective cover for straight forward racism, with the sane middle ground drowned out in the sea of bullshit. In Britain we've seen a alarming surge in anti-Jewish attacks in recent months, directly enflamed by the IDF's jolly escapades in the Gaza Strip last winter, making you wonder if a militarily antagonistic, paranoid racial state is really a good way to go about improving relations between Jews and non-Jews.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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I don't have a problem with Israel or Palestine, it's just the chuckleheads who have been in charge for most of the past sixty plus years. Thomas Friedman once remarked that the Palestinians deserved better leaders than they got, and after the Olmert escapades, the same can be said for the Israelis.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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Y'know, besides the fact that AFAICT the Rosen case seems to be going nowhere fast, all the moral indignation in this thread would ring a lot less hollow if the US hadn't been spying on Israel (for examples, see Yosef Amit* or Andrzej Kielczynski) or its other allies** (or, for that matter, if spying by other allies was met with equal indignation)

*An IDF officer who was convicted for spying for the US shortly before Pollard was arrested.
**For example
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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eyl wrote:Y'know, besides the fact that AFAICT the Rosen case seems to be going nowhere fast, all the moral indignation in this thread would ring a lot less hollow if the US hadn't been spying on Israel (for examples, see Yosef Amit* or Andrzej Kielczynski) or its other allies** (or, for that matter, if spying by other allies was met with equal indignation)

*An IDF officer who was convicted for spying for the US shortly before Pollard was arrested.
**For example
I do not recall America passing on classified information about Israel to Hezbollah or Iran.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Pelranius wrote:
eyl wrote:Y'know, besides the fact that AFAICT the Rosen case seems to be going nowhere fast, all the moral indignation in this thread would ring a lot less hollow if the US hadn't been spying on Israel (for examples, see Yosef Amit* or Andrzej Kielczynski) or its other allies** (or, for that matter, if spying by other allies was met with equal indignation)

*An IDF officer who was convicted for spying for the US shortly before Pollard was arrested.
**For example
I do not recall America passing on classified information about Israel to Hezbollah or Iran.
And there weren't any cases of Israel passing on classified information about America to Al-Quaida or communist rebels, your point being?

Espionage is espionage, everyone does it, to allies included. The self righteous bleating here is quite hilarious. The only question is the information taken by the spy (it's sensitivity), how highly placed he is/was (for either side), and what the other side will do to get him back, assuming the information wasn't overly damaging, or the spy becoming a political "example"/scapegoat/highly visible in the media, which limits potential swaps.
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Re: Israeli Spy Ring Blocks US Intel Appointee

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The Chinese spies the U.S have caught caused relatively little outrage. It's pretty much expected. However, being spied on by a nation that they support to the tune of literally billions of dollars, I imagine would piss people off.
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