Obesity is about self-control after all

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Obesity is about self-control after all

Post by Darth Wong »

Sorry, obese people. I don't mean to sound overly harsh, but with the exception of those in denial, I think we all knew this all along anyway. The study merely confirms this.

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/04/ ... hicafndcnh
Poor self-control in early childhood linked to later weight gain: study
Last Updated: Monday, April 6, 2009 | 4:28 PM ET
CBC News

In one experiment on delayed gratification, four-year-olds were told they could eat some candy now, or more later. Those who couldn't wait were more likely to be overweight as 11-year-olds.In one experiment on delayed gratification, four-year-olds were told they could eat some candy now, or more later. Those who couldn't wait were more likely to be overweight as 11-year-olds. (Dan Goodman/Associated Press)

Young children who have trouble delaying gratification in exchange for a larger award seem more likely to gain extra weight before becoming teenagers, a study suggests.

The April issue of the Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine includes several studies on childhood obesity. The excess weight tends to last into adulthood, increasing the risk of developing cardiovascular disease, Type 2 diabetes and certain cancers later in life, researchers said.

In one study, Lori Frances and Elizabeth Susman of Pennsylvania State University, State College, assessed how well 1,061 children were able to delay gratification or self-regulate their behaviour.

"The findings reported herein have potential for early prevention of obesity," the researchers concluded.

Encouraging self-regulation and delay of gratification are important for regulating energy intake, they said.

In the experiment, the researchers looked at the children when they were ages three, five, seven, nine, 11 and 12 years old.

At age three, the children took part in a test of their self-control. They were left sitting alone in a room with several toys, one of which they were asked not to touch until an adult returned. Those who waited at least 75 seconds before playing with the toy were considered high in self-regulation.

Then at age five, the children participated in a similar exercise in delayed gratification that involved the choice between a smaller portion of a favourite food immediately or a larger amount after several minutes.

Compared with children who showed high self-control and were able to wait at least 210 seconds before diving in, children who were unable to wait at both ages had the highest body mass index scores for their age at 12 years, and the fastest increases in BMI over the nine-year followup, the researchers found.

"In essence, it appears that children with greater self-regulation tend to be leaner, smarter, and better able to get along with others," Dr. Robert Whitaker and Rachel Gooze of Temple University in Philadelphia said in an editorial accompanying the research.

More treats if you wait

A second study tested the ability to delay gratification among four-year-olds.

The children were left alone with two plates containing different quantities of their preferred food — candy, animal crackers or pretzels.

Participants were told they could eat the larger quantity if they waited until the examiner returned. If a child couldn't wait, he or she was told to ring a bell to summon the examiner back, and then eat the small quantity.

About 47 per cent of the 805 children failed the test, either by ringing the bell before the seven-minute waiting period was up, spontaneously beginning to eat the food, becoming distressed or going to the door to call a parent or the examiner.

Those who showed a limited ability to delay gratification were 29 per cent more likely to be overweight at age 11, a link that was partly explained by their mother's weight, the researchers said.

"The influence of maternal weight status on child weight reflects genetic as well as environmental factors, such as feeding patterns and availability of food," Desiree Seeyave of the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, and colleagues wrote.

They suggested parenting strategies to help children develop an ability to delay gratification, such as:
  • Keeping the desired food out of sight and therefore out of mind.
  • Distracting the child's attention from the food and toward another engaging activity.
  • Offering a logical structure to snacks and meals, so the child learns to wait to eat until the next snack or meal time.
A child's ability to self-regulate can be changed, Whitaker and Gooze said in their editorial.

"Self-regulation is shaped by both nature and nurture; it is influenced by environments and experiences during early childhood."

While there aren't yet any proven ways for improving children's capacity to self-regulate, there are promising results from randomized controlled trials that show ways of boosting preschoolers' positive social behaviours, they said.
Interestingly, the people conducting the study linked these self-control issues not just to obesity, but also to learning and social issues:
"In essence, it appears that children with greater self-regulation tend to be leaner, smarter, and better able to get along with others," Dr. Robert Whitaker and Rachel Gooze of Temple University in Philadelphia said in an editorial accompanying the research.
Personally, while those who promote the "it's not really your fault" message seem to think they're helping, I wonder if they're actually hurting. It reminds me of the Alcoholics Anonymous message that the problem is "out of your control". Does it really help that we've been increasingly telling obese people that they're doomed to be obese because they just gain weight easily, rather than letting them know that it really is about self-control after all, and that they can do something about it?
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

Post by Knife »

I've been sitting here trying to figure out how to phrase this.

I'd be curious to see how this cross correlates, as in if the self regulating mechanism is across the board and/or a singular mechanism that is 'built' into each neuro-psychological pathway for each human need? Or to put it another way, if you exercise your self control on food, does that translate to an iron will on other issues of compulsion, or does it only correlate with food and perhaps other closely related urges?

I have my andetodal thoughts but would be more interesting on what the data says.
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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It's not just self-control though, according to the article:
"The influence of maternal weight status on child weight reflects genetic as well as environmental factors, such as feeding patterns and availability of food," Desiree Seeyave of the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, and colleagues wrote.
While a good part is self control, it isn't just a matter of willpower.
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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No one was saying it's 100% and that all other factors are zero. The point is that the people at the high end of the weight gain curve all exhibited self-control problems: it's time for these people to stop kidding themselves.
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Really, if you think about it this should be considered great news by those who are overweight because it means you can do something about it if you really want too. It seems like they felt just because it might be a physical disorder they now have a free pass to not exercise and eat healthy when in reality they would have to do both of those in order to survive longer and not get fatter but never with the hope of actually reaching a reasonable healthy weight.
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

Post by General Zod »

Too bad studies like this don't gain more prominence. I weigh more than I'd like right now but even I know it's largely because of my poor self discipline. (It was so much easier getting a regular workout when I had free access to a gym facility).
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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Darth Wong wrote:No one was saying it's 100% and that all other factors are zero. The point is that the people at the high end of the weight gain curve all exhibited self-control problems: it's time for these people to stop kidding themselves.
My apologizes. From your opening remarks, that was the general feeling I was getting.
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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The result seems logical enough, but wouldn't using something other than food for the study have been more rigorous to examine the effect of self-control (and not mere immediate desire of eating) on obesity?
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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Melchior wrote:The result seems logical enough, but wouldn't using something other than food for the study have been more rigorous to examine the effect of self-control (and not mere immediate desire of eating) on obesity?
:roll: They're testing for delayed gratification, not food vs other stimuli. By using the same stimuli all the time, they control for that extraneous variable. The point is that all the kids want the food. Can you even attempt to explain how the use of food as a stimulus somehow harms the study?
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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Melchior wrote:The result seems logical enough, but wouldn't using something other than food for the study have been more rigorous to examine the effect of self-control (and not mere immediate desire of eating) on obesity?
Since you're studying obesity why would something other than food matter? It's not like you get fat because of osmosis.
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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Darth Wong wrote:
Melchior wrote:The result seems logical enough, but wouldn't using something other than food for the study have been more rigorous to examine the effect of self-control (and not mere immediate desire of eating) on obesity?
:roll: They're testing for delayed gratification, not food vs other stimuli.
Would this result mean that if we train/teach children to delay gratification instead of giving them what they want they'd be better off? Is it possible to teach children at age 3 or 4 to do so? I would assume so.


On a sidenote, this makes the thread about Mr. Rogers and Dr. Spock seem more plausible, since IIRC the whole thrust of the thread is that its bad to give kids what they want when they want cause it makes them selfish.
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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AMT wrote:Would this result mean that if we train/teach children to delay gratification instead of giving them what they want they'd be better off? Is it possible to teach children at age 3 or 4 to do so? I would assume so.
Of course. Delayed gratification is an important sign of a more disciplined mind.
On a sidenote, this makes the thread about Mr. Rogers and Dr. Spock seem more plausible, since IIRC the whole thrust of the thread is that its bad to give kids what they want when they want cause it makes them selfish.
Except that Mr. Rogers never advocated automatically giving kids everything they want.
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

Post by Ryan Thunder »

Good to know, for parenting reasons, I think.

Not that I really believed it wasn't a self-control issue, anyway.

Hell, I have that problem. Thankfully other meds I take kill my appetite, so I don't eat much, or I'd be a fucking blimp!
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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Darth Wong wrote: :roll: They're testing for delayed gratification, not food vs other stimuli. By using the same stimuli all the time, they control for that extraneous variable. The point is that all the kids want the food. Can you even attempt to explain how the use of food as a stimulus somehow harms the study?
Sure, even if do not personally endorse the following argument. Obese people could have some biochemical imbalance (yes, I know how rare that kind of thing actually is, I'm a medical student) that makes their desire of food exceptionally intense, so that, even with normal (in all things that to do not concern feeding) self-control, they would be more likely to give in. Obviously, if you want to test specifically food-related self control, using food is the way to go.
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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Once again, the point sails over your head. Even if obese people do have some exceptionally powerful desire for food, they would get more of that tasty food if they wait. It is still a test of delayed gratification. I'm starting to wonder if you read the article, or if you understand what the point of the study was at all.
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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Darth Wong wrote:Once again, the point sails over your head. Even if obese people do have some exceptionally powerful desire for food, they would get more of that tasty food if they wait. It is still a test of delayed gratification. I'm starting to wonder if you read the article, or if you understand what the point of the study was at all.
It seems reasonable to assume that a more powerful craving for food would make the cost of waiting appear greater than the cost of a reduced intake. I generally have to force myself to eat, so it's not like I know from personal experience, but maybe the comparative merits of "not having to wait" and "more food" scale differently while being dependent on "how much do you want to eat".
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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Melchior wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Once again, the point sails over your head. Even if obese people do have some exceptionally powerful desire for food, they would get more of that tasty food if they wait. It is still a test of delayed gratification. I'm starting to wonder if you read the article, or if you understand what the point of the study was at all.
It seems reasonable to assume that a more powerful craving for food would make the cost of waiting appear greater than the cost of a reduced intake.
So your argument is that obese kids do not lack self-control; they merely have such powerful cravings that they cannot control them? :lol:
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

Post by Kanastrous »

That might make sense if addictive mechanisms were involved.

Is there any evidence to suggest anything like that?
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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But the onset of addiction is also a self-control issue.
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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Darth Wong wrote:
Melchior wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Once again, the point sails over your head. Even if obese people do have some exceptionally powerful desire for food, they would get more of that tasty food if they wait. It is still a test of delayed gratification. I'm starting to wonder if you read the article, or if you understand what the point of the study was at all.
It seems reasonable to assume that a more powerful craving for food would make the cost of waiting appear greater than the cost of a reduced intake.
So your argument is that obese kids do not lack self-control; they merely have such powerful cravings that they cannot control them? :lol:
I specified that I did not believe that: there is scant evidence that overweight people even feel marginally more hungry than the others, in the overwhelming majority of the cases. My position was that some (probably not very troublesome) noise from the few cases that fit the situation outlined above could be eliminated by using something that was not food (while losing other information, admittedly).
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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Melchior wrote:I specified that I did not believe that: there is scant evidence that overweight people even feel marginally more hungry than the others, in the overwhelming majority of the cases. My position was that some (probably not very troublesome) noise from the few cases that fit the situation outlined above could be eliminated by using something that was not food (while losing other information, admittedly).
That's absurd. There is no reason to believe that no matter how powerful your craving is, you cannot wait a mere 3½ minutes before indulging. That indicates a serious self-control problem, no matter how much spin-doctoring you do.

They're not testing their strength of desire for food: they're testing their ability to wait 3½ minutes before doing something they want.

PS. I've been holding a particular rebuttal in reserve, but let me ask you this: just how thoroughly did you bother reading the article?
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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Except that Mr. Rogers never advocated automatically giving kids everything they want.
Fair enough. I never really watched him as a kid.
But the onset of addiction is also a self-control issue.
That is a very good point. I come from an addictive family with a predisposition to addictive behavior, yet, due to my own self control, I have kept away from falling into those habits (for the most part)
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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Darth Wong wrote: That's absurd. There is no reason to believe that no matter how powerful your craving is, you cannot wait a mere 3½ minutes before indulging. That indicates a serious self-control problem, no matter how much spin-doctoring you do.

They're not testing their strength of desire for food: they're testing their ability to wait 3½ minutes before doing something they want.

PS. I've been holding a particular rebuttal in reserve, but let me ask you this: just how thoroughly did you bother reading the article?
Seven minutes, actually. Anyway, since the test with the toys was seemingly computed in the comprehensive estimate of self-control, my objection is moot.
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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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This is important to make clear to people because impulse control was what was being tested for, not a food addiction or even just a generalized inability to delay gratification. When presented and able to look at and fixate on the items, the fixation grew into distress. If you were able to set up a regular, orderly schedule or distract the kids, they did better. Leaving it visible, and accessible, made the desire much harder to suppress.

There are a lot of people who may struggle getting to the weight they want to be, even if they aren't obese, and this is about more than just food. Self control extends to other activities, such as portion control, choosing healthier foods, and trying to get out and exercise. The harder it is hammered home that this is, essentially, an impulse control issue, the easier it will be for people to admit they are the problem. This also helps other people do what they can to help their spouses, parents, and friends to make some effective changes--and to not be so afraid to confront them. It's really been a nightmare for my family to try to get my dad to do something about his weight, but he is just not tough enough to restrain himself. It's really sad.

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Re: Obesity is about self-control after all

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Covenant wrote:This is important to make clear to people because impulse control was what was being tested for, not a food addiction or even just a generalized inability to delay gratification. When presented and able to look at and fixate on the items, the fixation grew into distress. If you were able to set up a regular, orderly schedule or distract the kids, they did better. Leaving it visible, and accessible, made the desire much harder to suppress.

There are a lot of people who may struggle getting to the weight they want to be, even if they aren't obese, and this is about more than just food. Self control extends to other activities, such as portion control, choosing healthier foods, and trying to get out and exercise. The harder it is hammered home that this is, essentially, an impulse control issue, the easier it will be for people to admit they are the problem. This also helps other people do what they can to help their spouses, parents, and friends to make some effective changes--and to not be so afraid to confront them. It's really been a nightmare for my family to try to get my dad to do something about his weight, but he is just not tough enough to restrain himself. It's really sad.

Idiom Factoid: Saying something is moot really means that it remains debatable (often to the point that debating it is pointless), not that it amounts to nothing.
I brought this up first, I think. This study isolates a mechanism. I want to know if that mechanism is a broad based thing or a mechanism that is reoccurring in various systems.

IE one can say; I know I like food and can't resist. Can one resist gettng in the car to drive to a store to buy it?

Edit III revenge of the..... or leave work, leave importent something to get food? The study is based off of short term gain after all.

I have problems with resisting good food, wine or beer. That said, I'm hardly standing in line to the local fine food establishment every morning.
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But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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