They're protesting on the what?

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They're protesting on the what?

Post by Ryan Thunder »

The Star wrote:Word that someone in Ottawa was listening was enough to spark the exodus of thousands of protesters from the Gardiner Expressway early this morning.

By midnight people began heading down the Spadina ramp and returning to the south lawn of Queen's Park, where the rally began earlier Sunday before protesters stormed the Gardiner.

"I'll be here all night," said Santhira Kumar, 40, as he walked onto the grass shortly before 1 a.m., with a Tamil Tiger flag hoisted over his shoulder.

Many of the Tamils who earlier clogged the Gardiner seemed to have gone home but between 200 and 300 remained at Queen's Park. However, Parithra Sritharan, 17, said many, such as her father, merely went home for warmer clothing as the protest lengthened from a sunny afternoon to a windy night.

"We are planning on staying all night," she said from within a winter hat strapped under her chin. "People who came early, they came with shorts."

As she stood with her older brother Mayuram, 20, she added some people might have gone home for the night, but "they're going to come back in the morning for sure."

Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair said the protesters decided to leave the expressway following input from leaders of the protest and assurances political leaders would deal with their concerns.

"We received some help from some community members and some of our political leaders to bring an end to this," Blair said outside 52 Division early this morning.

He did not want to be specific but there was earlier word that someone from opposition leader Michael Ignatieff's office had responded, claiming a statement would be made Monday.

"The protests are going to continue and we're anticipating having to deal with this in the days and weeks to come," Blair said.

He described the protest on the expressway as being in a "very dangerous location," which made it "difficult to manage a crowd."

"It was the first we ever had a protest go in that direction (onto the Gardiner Expressway)," Blair said. "I was very concerned if we started to move that crowd down the ramp and if there was any kind of a stampede and people began to fall we could have had a tragedy there and even loss of life."

Blair said "it was a big mistake (for the demonstrators) to go up there," adding he was "pleased they heard our message."

The Gardiner Expressway has reopened in both directions.

Many Tamils were aware they were trying the patience of both police and Toronto's drivers. Some cared and some did not.

Rita and Raj Thiruchelvan, both 46, were also planning on spending the night and said so shortly before the subway closed at 1:30 a.m. They have lost touch with their cousin, who is a Catholic nun in Sri Lanka.

"We want the attention from the government and from the people, too," Rita said. "It's not easy to stay in the roads."

Baskar Pathmanathan, 32, understood Toronto's possible annoyance, but did not see what else the Tamil community could do. He said his wife's uncle died from government shelling.

"Everything that's happened here today, the Gardiner, is out of sheer desperation," he said. "We can't go home and sleep."

Up until 2 a.m. Tamils continued to walk into Queen's Park and the police presence was still strong.

The Gardiner Expressway came to a standstill for almost five hours when 2,000 Tamil protesters stormed onto the highway and ramps, blocking all lanes Sunday night.

Chief Blair said the protest was unlawful. "What they are doing right now is clearly unlawful and unsafe," he said, while the protest was still ongoing.

He added there were women and children at the front of the protesting group and that the highway guardrails aren't very high.

During the protest on the Gardiner, he said more police officers were being brought in and day shift officers remained on duty to address the situation. They were trying to peacefully remove the protesters through negotiation.

Tempers frayed as the protest dragged late into the night. Two men and a woman were arrested and charged with assaulting a peace officer and mischief interfering with property.

Protest spokesperson Siva Vimal said leaders decided to end their protest after speaking with the office of Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff and receiving assurances he would take up their cause at caucus.

"Why we have come to this point is that for months now the community has been protesting peacefully, and there has been a serious inaction on the Canadian government's part," Vimal said earlier.

"They have not done everything that they can to pressure the government of Sri Lanka to accept international calls for a ceasefire."

Shyanthy Thezarajh, 24, another spokesperson for the Tamil protesters, said she is hoping for diplomatic sanctions against Sri Lanka and a stronger statement at the UN.

"There's been a massive impact on each and every individual here. And they're pretty much trying to get the media to understand what's going on in the hopes that the issue would come to the world stage and some kind of meaningful solution will be achieved for Sri Lanka right now," she said during the protest.

"Hopefully, once people start realizing what exactly happened to trigger all these emotions, I'm hoping as a community (Canadians) will all stand together," she added.

Hundreds of people, young and old, sat cross-legged with babies in strollers on the highway around her.

Meanwhile, another few thousand protesters gathered on University and College and in front of the American consulate.

The dramatic moves, following several protests in recent weeks in both Ottawa and Toronto, came after news that an all-night artillery barrage in Sri Lanka's war zone killed more than 370 people and forced thousands to flee to makeshift shelters along the beach.

Police were caught off guard as the demonstration swelled.

Later in the evening as some protesters walked down off the Gardiner additional ones arrived.

Meanwhile, 52 Division station became a command post surrounded on all sides by double-parked police cruisers from across the city. Police officers were bused to the Gardiner.

Police had been monitoring several groups of demonstrators who had joined up on Spadina Ave. as they headed south at about 6:30 p.m.

The closure of the Gardiner caused traffic gridlock on all downtown streets.

Once the marchers hit the Lakeshore hundreds of people began running up the ramp to the westbound Gardiner. Marchers held flags, banners and placards demanding a stop to the violence in their homeland.

Police closed ramps to the expressway from Jarvis to Spadina Ave. Traffic backed up in both directions from the Don Valley Parkway to the east and as far as the Humber River in the west end. A group of demonstrators had crossed over the centre concrete median spreading themselves out across all lanes.

Mounted officers were brought to the scene as police surrounded the group and patrol officers from divisions across the city were also brought in.

"A wake-up call this morning was that we lost 4,000 people," said protester Arthty Ragupathy, 15, noting the casualty number many at the protest are using although official reports say about 400 civilians were killed. However, media are not allowed into the war zone so it is difficult to substantiate the exact number.

"My grandmother overnight was actually killed," Ragupathy said, grabbing a friend's hand for support.

While many Tamil Canadians awoke to the news this morning, Ragupathy sat up through the night with her family, listening to the names of the dead listed on a Tamil radio station. Her grandmother, who is nearly 80, had left Jaffna and relocated to the no-fire zone, where she was supposed to be safe.

Her name was announced around 1 or 2 a.m. Sunday.

"They're trying to get rid of the whole Tamil race," she said, her big brown eyes moist.

People turned off their car engines and stood in the roadway, some taking pictures with cameras or cellphones.

"I was on my way to visit friends and go see a movie," said Matthew Sacks. "It's unfortunate it has to come to this but I guess it's not the end of the world."

Stephany Anton Arogana, 16, a protester, said, "It's hard for us students to focus at school. Our teachers are teaching us something and our minds are somewhere else."

She said they have protested every way possible and the Canadian government has not effectively intervened.

"We did not get our voices heard. We hope this helps. We're getting to a point where our people are decreasing in numbers."

A motorist was disappointed by the disruption.

"This is not good. I'm on my way to see my mother for Mother's Day and I guess I'm going to be late," said Erin Edwards. Edwards and many motorists left their cars and walked toward the crowd and watched the spectacle unfold behind police lines. "I get the point of their problems but I don't get this," Edwards added.

At about 7:30 p.m. police began getting motorists to back up their cars and down the closest ramp.

Anita, a spokesperson for the Tamil protesters who was on the scene, said the protest was peaceful. "We're all just on the floor sitting down. We're here trying to stop the genocide."

Protesters also blocked off a downtown intersection near the Ontario legislature.

Police from the surrounding regions sent in officers to help the Toronto force.

Tamil Canadians and their supporters have been holding protests for several months to demonstrate against violence in Sri Lanka.

They began Sunday by holding a moving protest on University Avenue across from the U.S. consulate and then moved south to take over the highway.
Well, just in case hearing about the Tamil Tigers bombing busses full of people who were totally irrelevant to their problems didn't destroy whatever sympathy I had for them, they've gone and blocked the Gardiner in an attempt to "make" us listen. Well, fuck them. Morons. :roll:
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

Post by Stuart »

Ryan Thunder wrote:"My grandmother overnight was actually killed," Ragupathy said, grabbing a friend's hand for support. While many Tamil Canadians awoke to the news this morning, Ragupathy sat up through the night with her family, listening to the names of the dead listed on a Tamil radio station. Her grandmother, who is nearly 80, had left Jaffna and relocated to the no-fire zone, where she was supposed to be safe.
Hang on, the old dear left Jaffna (which is a backwater as far as the war is concerned and far to the rear of the remaining fighting - has been since the mid-1990s) to go to the NFZ (a 2.0 km by 1.5km strip of land in the middle of the fighting) because she thought the latter was safer. That doesn't sound even remotely plausible to me.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

Post by Darth Wong »

Unfortunately, someone decided a long time ago that the right to "peaceful protest" somehow included the right to block traffic. That's why unions are allowed to do it, and that's why these clowns can get away with it.

Only mass arrests would take away this mentality that a protester is entitled to block traffic, and I don't see that happening any time soon.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

Post by Samuel »

Aren't the Tamil Tigers the ones who invented modern suicide bombing? Why should I feel at all concerned that they are being obliterated by the Sri Lankan military? Am I missing something here, because otherwise I am going to cheer them on.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

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"They're trying to get rid of the whole Tamil race," she said, her big brown eyes moist.
What about the Tamils in southern India...?
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

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Darth Wong wrote:Unfortunately, someone decided a long time ago that the right to "peaceful protest" somehow included the right to block traffic. That's why unions are allowed to do it, and that's why these clowns can get away with it.

Only mass arrests would take away this mentality that a protester is entitled to block traffic, and I don't see that happening any time soon.
If I recall, the last time protests led to blocked traffic in Chicago there WERE mass arrests - several hundred people in one night. That was only a couple years ago. Well, I guess we got something right....
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

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Samuel wrote:Aren't the Tamil Tigers the ones who invented modern suicide bombing? Why should I feel at all concerned that they are being obliterated by the Sri Lankan military? Am I missing something here, because otherwise I am going to cheer them on.
The Sri Lankan military seem to be killing more than 1000 civilians a week in their offensive through indiscriminate shelling, which some seem to consider excessive.

It's also worth noting that, as with all such separatist conflicts, the tactics of a side don't necessarily have anything to do with the justice of their cause. It's entirely possible to deplore Tamil Tiger tactics while holding that the Tamil have a decent case for self-determination, and that Sri Lankan tactics are also grounds for protest..
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

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Fuck the tamils. If this wasn't in toronto, I'd happily run the protestors over.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

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MKSheppard wrote:Fuck the tamils. If this wasn't in toronto, I'd happily run the protestors over.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

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Stuart wrote:
Ryan Thunder wrote:"My grandmother overnight was actually killed," Ragupathy said, grabbing a friend's hand for support. While many Tamil Canadians awoke to the news this morning, Ragupathy sat up through the night with her family, listening to the names of the dead listed on a Tamil radio station. Her grandmother, who is nearly 80, had left Jaffna and relocated to the no-fire zone, where she was supposed to be safe.
Hang on, the old dear left Jaffna (which is a backwater as far as the war is concerned and far to the rear of the remaining fighting - has been since the mid-1990s) to go to the NFZ (a 2.0 km by 1.5km strip of land in the middle of the fighting) because she thought the latter was safer. That doesn't sound even remotely plausible to me.
To be charitable, it doesn't actually say that she went to the NFZ because it was safer. She could have gone there for other reasons (relatives, perhaps?). OTOH, the journalist could have got confused.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

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Cecelia5578 wrote:Love your big dick wanking.
Blow me. It's apparent you don't even know the tiniest bit abotu the Tamil Tigers; who practically INVENTED the suicide bombing -- now that they're getting their asses kicked six ways to sunday by the Sri Lankans, and an end is now in sight to the 30-year old Tamil Tiger insurgency; all the bleeding hearts are coming out of the woodwork, calling for a "negotiated, peaceful end" to the conflict; which of course, will result in the Tamil Tigers still having territory under their control; rather than them being ground under into dust by the Sri Lankans.

To the Sri Lankans; I say, Faster, sir, Faster!
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

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Samuel wrote:Aren't the Tamil Tigers the ones who invented modern suicide bombing? Why should I feel at all concerned that they are being obliterated by the Sri Lankan military? Am I missing something here, because otherwise I am going to cheer them on.
Cheering on the Sri Lanka Army would be a virtuous act. The Tamil terrorists (I refuse to use the flamboyant LTTE name) invented pretty much every tactic currently being used by al quaeda at al.
androsphinx wrote:The Sri Lankan military seem to be killing more than 1000 civilians a week in their offensive through indiscriminate shelling, which some seem to consider excessive.
That's very highly disputed. The number appears to come from Tamil.net and is grossly overstated. The best estimate (from the ICRC) is that 6,500 civilians have been killed over the course of the current SLA offensive that has been running for 14 months. Also, the primary reason for the civilian death toll (The Sri Lanka Army artillery fire is not indiscriminate) is that the Tamil terrorists are using civilians as human shields, crowding them into target areas and killing any that try to escape. The terrorists killed a group of more than 20 Tamil women and children trying to escape to Army lines today. Over the weekend, the terrorists deliberately shelled their own people in an attempt to get a cease-fire before they are finally defeated.

In any case, 70,000 people have died in this civil war. If a few civilians get killed ending it sooner, then their lives were properly expended.
It's also worth noting that, as with all such separatist conflicts, the tactics of a side don't necessarily have anything to do with the justice of their cause.
Actually, it does. The tactics used show what kind of people are trying to form said state. In the case of the Tamil terrorists, they're vicious, sadistic murderers. The primary judgement on a state is its custodianship, how well does it look after its assets and people. In the area held by the Tamil terrorists until recently, they've built nothing, maintained nothing, created nothing. Development projects started in the 1980s are still unfinished, roads are in complete disrepair, rich farmland has reverted to jungle and the fishing ports are just derelict houses surrounding rotting, sunken boats. The Tamil terrorists have no justice in their cause, they are just psychotic, power-mad gangsters.
It's entirely possible to deplore Tamil Tiger tactics while holding that the Tamil have a decent case for self-determination
Unfortunately, the Tamils don't have such a case. Ethnic groups in Sri Lanka are Sinhalese 73.8%, Indian Moslems 10 percent Sri Lankan Moors 7.2%, Indian Tamil 4.6%, Sri Lankan Tamil 3.9%, other 0.5%. In other words, the Tamils form, in total, 8.5 percent of the population of Sri Lanka. Yet they were claiming as their "homeland" 40 percent of the land area of Sri Lanka including all the best farmland and fishing grounds. They refused to negotiate. Their case was unreasonable from the start and they've only made things worse since then.
and that Sri Lankan tactics are also grounds for protest.
No, they are not. They are using a combination of bog-standard infantry tactics combined with deep-penetration patrols. The only people protesting are the Tamil terrorists and that's because they've been out-fought, out-thought and out-generalled. It should be noted that the Sri Lanka Army has stopped using artillery and air strikes over the last week due to the nature of this phase of the fighting. The Sri Lanka Army is actually fighting very well and skillfully under the circumstances. General Fonseca has turned out to be quite the erudite strategist
To be charitable, it doesn't actually say that she went to the NFZ because it was safer. She could have gone there for other reasons (relatives, perhaps?). OTOH, the journalist could have got confused.
Parsing the sentence, its quite clear, she went to the NFZ because it was safer. I think its much more likely that the so-called journalist gambled on the fact that nobody would be familiar enough with the geography of Northern Sri Lanka to spot the incongruity. Not a risky bet actually, not many people have 1:25000 scale maps of the combat area pinned to their office walls the way I do. It's a long way from Jaffna to the NFZ, it would be like going from Hartford to New York, easy by car, impossible on foot.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

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I defer to your superior knowledge of the details of what's going on here. I have some Tamil friends here who despise the Tigers but speak of discriminatory practices by the Sinhalese majority going back to independence, argue on those grounds for some regional autonomy (short of independence), and who are unsurprisingly cut up about civilian casualties. It was on those grounds that I said it was possible to hold the positions above, which I don't know enough about to endorse.
The Sri Lanka Army artillery fire is not indiscriminate)
Retracted.
Parsing the sentence, its quite clear, she went to the NFZ because it was safer. I think its much more likely that the so-called journalist gambled on the fact that nobody would be familiar enough with the geography of Northern Sri Lanka to spot the incongruity. Not a risky bet actually, not many people have 1:25000 scale maps of the combat area pinned to their office walls the way I do. It's a long way from Jaffna to the NFZ, it would be like going from Hartford to New York, easy by car, impossible on foot
Sure. I read, perhaps incorrectly, into your original comment the implication that the story was untrue. I would consider the journalist more likely to be at fault than the interviewee.

WRT to casualties, a Dr. Shanmugarajah (which is, I think a Tamil surname) reported 381 confirmed dead over the weekend and speculated about up to an additional thousand. Government sources are quoted in the UK papers as giving a figure of 378, who also carry government claims that the Tamil were responsible for the shelling in an attempt to obtain international pressure for a ceasefire.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

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Androsphinx wrote: I have some Tamil friends here who despise the Tigers but speak of discriminatory practices by the Sinhalese majority going back to independence, argue on those grounds for some regional autonomy (short of independence), and who are unsurprisingly cut up about civilian casualties.
Again, though, I repeat the figures. 8.5 percent of the population, they demanded 40 percent of the land area for their "homeland". Their original demand was (and remains) for independence. Prabhakaran refused to discuss an autonomy deal or reducing the area claimed. As to civilian casualties, the reponsibility there lies with the terrorists whi used them as human shields.
WRT to casualties, a Dr. Shanmugarajah (which is, I think a Tamil surname) reported 381 confirmed dead over the weekend and speculated about up to an additional thousand. Government sources are quoted in the UK papers as giving a figure of 378, who also carry government claims that the Tamil were responsible for the shelling in an attempt to obtain international pressure for a ceasefire.
The Sri Lanka Army backed their statement up with communications intercepts ordering the bombardment (the SLA is shit-hot when it comes to COMINT) and produced prisoners who corroborated the intercepts. The terrorists have only produced a single, uncorroborated statement that simply says artillery fire arrived. So, at the moment, the balance of evidence lies in favor of the Army version.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

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Government sources are quoted in the UK papers as giving a figure of 378, who also carry government claims that the Tamil were responsible for the shelling in an attempt to obtain international pressure for a ceasefire.
Just updated with a quick note that although the Times, etc. are quoting the figure of 378 from a "government source", their source is indeed TamilNet.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

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MKSheppard wrote:now that they're getting their asses kicked six ways to sunday by the Sri Lankans, and an end is now in sight to the 30-year old Tamil Tiger insurgency; all the bleeding hearts are coming out of the woodwork, calling for a "negotiated, peaceful end" to the conflict; which of course, will result in the Tamil Tigers still having territory under their control; rather than them being ground under into dust by the Sri Lankans.
It really does weird me out that this conflict has been going on for so damn long and all of a sudden it's getting all this attention. Most people until recently would have have had no clue where the island even is.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

Post by weemadando »

aimless wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:now that they're getting their asses kicked six ways to sunday by the Sri Lankans, and an end is now in sight to the 30-year old Tamil Tiger insurgency; all the bleeding hearts are coming out of the woodwork, calling for a "negotiated, peaceful end" to the conflict; which of course, will result in the Tamil Tigers still having territory under their control; rather than them being ground under into dust by the Sri Lankans.
It really does weird me out that this conflict has been going on for so damn long and all of a sudden it's getting all this attention. Most people until recently would have have had no clue where the island even is.
When you have a 30 year civil war that's been about as brutal as they come, it makes for depressing TV every night. Plus these are brown people. So they don't matter. :banghead:

But now there is a) an end in sight and b) lots of people suddenly giving shit and crying foul about the big nasty Sri Lankan Army being mean to those poor Tamils. Fuck the Tamils, they're not even FROM THERE. This is like the Vietnamese boat people from the 70s in Australia suddenly launching a campaign of extermination to create a Vietnamese homeland for their people in the middle of Sydney.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

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Ryan Thunder wrote: ...they've gone and blocked the Gardiner in an attempt to "make" us listen. Well, fuck them. Morons. :roll:
I for one can't believe the protesters would march their children on the highway. :banghead:
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

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Next of Kin wrote:
Ryan Thunder wrote: ...they've gone and blocked the Gardiner in an attempt to "make" us listen. Well, fuck them. Morons. :roll:
I for one can't believe the protesters would march their children on the highway. :banghead:
Yeah, these same people who hold thousands of refugees in their final few military strongholds as hostages and human shields. They're so compassionate.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

Post by Phantasee »

weemadando wrote:But now there is a) an end in sight and b) lots of people suddenly giving shit and crying foul about the big nasty Sri Lankan Army being mean to those poor Tamils. Fuck the Tamils, they're not even FROM THERE. This is like the Vietnamese boat people from the 70s in Australia suddenly launching a campaign of extermination to create a Vietnamese homeland for their people in the middle of Sydney.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.
So my dad's story is true? They came from Southern India to try and create a 'homeland' in Sri Lanka? When I heard that, I lost a lot of sympathy for their cause (and I had very little to begin with, since I knew a long time ago that they started suicide bombings).
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

Post by Tanasinn »

Next of Kin wrote:
Ryan Thunder wrote: ...they've gone and blocked the Gardiner in an attempt to "make" us listen. Well, fuck them. Morons. :roll:
I for one can't believe the protesters would march their children on the highway. :banghead:
Well, they need their human shields, after all. :)
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Stuart
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

Post by Stuart »

Phantasee wrote:So my dad's story is true? They came from Southern India to try and create a 'homeland' in Sri Lanka? When I heard that, I lost a lot of sympathy for their cause (and I had very little to begin with, since I knew a long time ago that they started suicide bombings).
'

Sort of, back in The Day, the British brought over Tamils from Southern India to act as cheap labor. Their descendents are now regarded as Sri Lankan Tamils. Other Tamils emigrated from Tamil Nadu (Southern India) in the 1960s and 1970s in search of work because of a lack of same in India. They're known as Indian Tamils and outnumber Sri Lankan Tamils 4.6 percent to 3.9 percent.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

Post by SAMAS »

Why, oh why do people not listen to History?

Violence DOES NOT WORK as a form of protest, even if your cause is just. It only undermines your purpose.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

Post by Phantasee »

SAMAS wrote:Why, oh why do people not listen to History?

Violence DOES NOT WORK as a form of protest, even if your cause is just. It only undermines your purpose.
I think in this case, they kind of wrote that history (in Sri Lanka). However, the article is about peaceful (but disruptive to traffic) protests in Ottawa.

So I think they may have learned that it doesn't work, at least, not here.
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Re: They're protesting on the what?

Post by Pelranius »

It always amazes me that it is the diaspora which is always egging on the people back home to be more radical and violent. Whether its settler groupies like Mike Weiner, the friends of the IRA, Taiwanese independence wankers living aboard, Palestinian refugees, the lovely Tamil community leaders... guess the saying about rear echelon troops swaggering applies to civilians as well.
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