CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

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Master of Ossus
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CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

Post by Master of Ossus »

CBS/AP wrote:California's seemingly endless fiscal problems were back in the spotlight Tuesday night as voters largely rejected a complex slate of six ballot propositions designed to keep the state from sliding further toward fiscal calamity.

Election night returns mirrored what recent polls by CBS 5 and other groups had showed, with voters rejecting the five propositions directly related to budget matters. The ballot measures included a mix of reforms, higher taxes, borrowing and funding shifts.

The one measure they approved was Proposition 1F, which will prohibit raises to lawmakers and other state elected officials during deficit years.

"Obviously, it's disappointing," said Assemblywoman Noreen Evans, D-Santa Rosa, chairwoman of the Assembly Budget Committee. "But I think the voters are sending a message that they believe the budget is the job of the governor and Legislature. We probably need to go back and do our job."

The overwhelming defeat of the special election package means California will have to cut about 20 percent of its general fund spending to balance the budget through mid-2010.

"Tonight we have heard from the voters and I respect the will of the people who are frustrated with the dysfunction in our budget system," Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said late Tuesday night. "Now we must move forward from this point to begin to address our fiscal crisis with constructive solutions."

And because of the failure of Schwarzenegger's lynchpin measure -Proposition 1A - which would have capped state spending while extending a series of tax increases, the fiscal roller coaster he has complained about since taking office is likely to continue.

Here's a look at the decisions on the six statewide propositions and their impact:

Props. 1A: Voters Reject Spending Restraint, Tax Hikes

California voters rejected a ballot measure that would have created a state spending cap while prolonging temporary tax increases.

Proposition 1A was the centerpiece of efforts by Schwarzenegger and other state leaders to fix California's ongoing fiscal problems. It also would have strengthened the state's rainy day fund.

The measure's defeat meant Proposition 1B, which would have restored more than $9 billion to schools, could not be enacted even if voters had approved it. That measure also was defeated.

Proposition 1A generated the most opposition among the six measures on Tuesday's ballot. State employee unions opposed the spending cap, while anti-tax groups criticized the $16 billion in tax increases it would have triggered.

Prop. 1B: Voters Reject School Funding Measure

Voters rejected a ballot measure to give California schools first crack at about $9.3 billion in state funding they say they're owed.

Proposition 1B would have repaid the money over several years once the state set up a stronger rainy day fund. It was tied to another measure that failed, Proposition 1A.

Proposition 1B was part of a compromise deal Schwarzenegger and legislative leaders worked out with the powerful California Teachers Association.

The union argued schools were entitled to the funding under a landmark school funding measure that voters approved in 1998.

Prop. 1C: Voters Reject Lottery Borrowing

Voters rejected Proposition 1C, which would have authorized the state to borrow $5 billion against future lottery earnings.

The Lottery Modernization Act would have authorized larger jackpots. Schwarzenegger and legislative leaders said doing so would have encouraged more players, boosting revenue.

The $5 billion in bonds they said the state would have received in the coming fiscal year would have been repaid, with interest, from those additional earnings.

The measure also would have given the Legislature power to do more borrowing against lottery revenue in the future. Schwarzenegger said the state will now have to make deeper cuts in programs and staffing.

Prop. 1D Defeated: Voters Keep Funding For Young Children

Californians don't want to steer funding from young children to help the state's struggling finances.

Voters rejected Proposition 1D, leaving $1.7 billion in a program that voters created 11 years ago for children age 5 and under.

Lawmakers in February proposed redirecting money from the program known as First 5 as part of a budget deal intended to help close the state's $42 billion deficit.

The program is funded through higher tobacco taxes. Critics argued the measure would be a blow to a program that each year takes in less money as fewer Californians smoke.

Lawmakers had warned they would have to make cuts in other children's programs if voters rejected the measure.

Prop. 1E Rejected: Voters Shield Mental Health From Budget Woes

Voters told lawmakers not to take money from mental health programs to help close the state deficit by rejecting Proposition 1E.

Lawmakers put the measure on the ballot in hopes of transferring $460 million over the next two years from mental health services.

It was backed by Senate President Darrell Steinberg who championed the original 2004 initiative that taxed millionaires to raise funds for mental health programs.

The Democrat from Sacramento had argued lawmakers were faced with difficult choices in a deepening recession.

Critics had warned the measure would cost the state more in the long run if mentally ill people were left without treatment.

Prop. 1F: Voters OK Capping Lawmaker Pay During Deficit Years

If California is running a deficit, lawmakers shouldn't get a raise.

Voters approved Proposition 1F, capping pay raises for lawmakers and statewide officials whenever state government runs a deficit.

While lawmakers put the measure on the ballot as part of the state budget package intended to close the deficit, its passage will have little effect on the state's finances.

The measure was pushed by Democrats to get state Sen. Abel Maldonado of Santa Maria to vote for the budget compromise in February.

The Republican's vote was essential to reaching the Legislature's two-thirds vote requirement for the state spending plan and tax increases.
Not really a surprise for people who follow CA state politics. What was shocking were the reports on radio and television, which I couldn't find in print anywhere. Only 17% of registered voters bothered to show up--turnout was so low that reporters trying to cover the election by going to polling places often found no one to talk to, even in normally very crowded voting venues like San Francisco City Hall. Also, not one COUNTY voted in favor of any of the five budget propositions, which had been heavily promoted by Sacramento politicos and the ordinarily sacrosanct Teacher's and Firefighter's Unions, among others.

The bolded part was too funny not to note. Ya THINK?
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Jesus, 20% of their General Fund spending. Does that include education spending?

In any case, they need to get rid of that damned proposition system, since the bloody thing is one major keg in the clusterfuck that is California politics (there are also those pleasant public sector unions, along with ridiculously gerrymandered districts to the point where many state legislators are more accountable to the fanatics in their primaries than to the actual population that votes them in).
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

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Master of Ossus wrote:Not really a surprise for people who follow CA state politics. What was shocking were the reports on radio and television, which I couldn't find in print anywhere. Only 17% of registered voters bothered to show up--turnout was so low that reporters trying to cover the election by going to polling places often found no one to talk to, even in normally very crowded voting venues like San Francisco City Hall. Also, not one COUNTY voted in favor of any of the five budget propositions, which had been heavily promoted by Sacramento politicos and the ordinarily sacrosanct Teacher's and Firefighter's Unions, among others.
Definitely. When I went to drop off my ballot at the polling station, there was nobody there. This was around 1600 or so.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

Post by Samuel »

Darth Yoshi wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:Not really a surprise for people who follow CA state politics. What was shocking were the reports on radio and television, which I couldn't find in print anywhere. Only 17% of registered voters bothered to show up--turnout was so low that reporters trying to cover the election by going to polling places often found no one to talk to, even in normally very crowded voting venues like San Francisco City Hall. Also, not one COUNTY voted in favor of any of the five budget propositions, which had been heavily promoted by Sacramento politicos and the ordinarily sacrosanct Teacher's and Firefighter's Unions, among others.
Definitely. When I went to drop off my ballot at the polling station, there was nobody there. This was around 1600 or so.
About 1800 for me and I was the only one AND it was a double polling station.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

Post by Darth Wong »

Is there any amount of campaigning that would sell Californians on this? It's pretty clear that "we need to get our financial house in order even if it requires some sacrifice" is just not going to sell, even though it happens to be the truth.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

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Darth Wong wrote:Is there any amount of campaigning that would sell Californians on this? It's pretty clear that "we need to get our financial house in order even if it requires some sacrifice" is just not going to sell, even though it happens to be the truth.
I would wager that the only thing to do is simply go through the California budget with a hatchet and start cutting services. Then tell voters that if they want their services back, then they'd better march their asses down to the voting booths and allow the government to raise taxes. Unfortunately there would be much suffering during the interim. Also, it will not work unless they cut things that affect the middle class. For example, homeless people can't vote (you need a permanent address), so saving money by closing government shelters and food pantries will just result in much suffering for no gain.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

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Darth Wong wrote:Is there any amount of campaigning that would sell Californians on this? It's pretty clear that "we need to get our financial house in order even if it requires some sacrifice" is just not going to sell, even though it happens to be the truth.
Actually, I think that Californians well understand that there will be some self-sacrifice coming up. Albeit anecdotal, most of the news interviewees that I saw talked about how upset they were the Legislature and the Governor for not bothering to set up clear priorities as to what portions of the budget would be cut and which would not be cut (hence doing their jobs). There were also widespread criticisms leading up to the vote (even from the political left in a very liberal state) that the State Government had been too reluctant to cut Government services--to the point where they made essentially no effort to do so before these propositions asked for substantial tax hikes in addition to the one that the Government was already able to foist upon the state. The Assemblywoman with the absurd line about how she should "probably" go back and do her job is almost certainly responding to that general sentiment.

@ Guardman Bass--Yes, 20% of the General Fund includes things like education spending, prison system, police and fire, CalTrans (highway and public transportation maintenance), court systems, etc. (although all of those except for prisons are also partly or largely shouldered by counties and municipalities, which frequently have their own income sources even if they still get much of their funding from the state).

Personally, I'm also not entirely sure that the proposition system is a net negative. Certainly it's an unusual feature of California politics, and certainly the State is having tons of problems with governance, and it's certainly led to indisputably bad outcomes in a few situations (e.g., Prop 8). But the propositions have also produced good outcomes in the past. In the wake of the Energy Crisis, for instance, the proposition system allowed us to get Davis out of the Governor's mansion and put in Arnold. I don't think Arnold's done a great job of managing this crisis, but he basically saved the State following the Energy one. Indeed, he did so by using the proposition system, again, when the Legislature made it very clear to voters and the Governor that they wouldn't play ball with him.

In addition, even though I live in a state whose populace I disagree with in a number of key areas, I also trust the California voters far more than I trust the Legislature--it's simply that ineffectual and that misguided.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

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Adrian Laguna wrote:I would wager that the only thing to do is simply go through the California budget with a hatchet and start cutting services. Then tell voters that if they want their services back, then they'd better march their asses down to the voting booths and allow the government to raise taxes. Unfortunately there would be much suffering during the interim.
Actually, the perception among many voters is that that was what would happen if the propositions were voted down. In other words: that's what voters thought they were voting for, and that's what they wanted when they disapproved of the budget propositions.

Also, let's be realistic, here: it's not like there's no room for cutting services without creating suffering. Have you looked at the sorts of Energy Policy issues that Californians pay for? You can cut half the budget deficit just by eliminating things like Low Income Energy Efficiency and California Solar Initiative. Those programs have achieved precisely nothing other than giving politicians more feathers that look good in their hats without actually achieving any halfway rational objectives. And that discounts completely the fact that California provides vastly better state services than virtually any other state, and that their programs have become massive and bloated (e.g., a public university system running multiple top-tier law and business schools--because without State subsidies no one would become lawyers or businessmen, and then we're looking at the collapse of California as a society, right?).
Also, it will not work unless they cut things that affect the middle class. For example, homeless people can't vote (you need a permanent address), so saving money by closing government shelters and food pantries will just result in much suffering for no gain.
Homeless people can vote. They just need an address at which they can receive mail (e.g., a homeless shelter--even one that they're not living in).
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

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Master of Ossus wrote:Actually, the perception among many voters is that that was what would happen if the propositions were voted down. In other words: that's what voters thought they were voting for, and that's what they wanted when they disapproved of the budget propositions.
I don't know how much we can read about the actual attitude of California's electorate from these results, because of the absurdly low turnout. The moral atmosphere is probably more along the lines of mindless apathy and unwillingness to face difficult decisions. When state government actually does grind to a halt you can expect the 83% of registered voters who refused to have an opinion to turn up very quickly to whine about the disaster.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

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Master of Ossus wrote:Homeless people can vote. They just need an address at which they can receive mail (e.g., a homeless shelter--even one that they're not living in).
I've actually used "General Delivery" as my mailing address for a short period of time, after I moved. It goes to the post office, and you just need to pick up every week or so. They don't keep mail for more than a month though. I'll admit it's not convenient, but it beats not being able to get mail at all. I'm not sure how this would interact with voting, however.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

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Tell the voters that the bugetary crisis is going to force the state and counties to cut back on the fire services and that when their homes burn in the next brushfire, they can think about whether paying taxes might actually be a good idea or not.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

Post by Darth Wong »

California spends more than $10 billion every year on prisons. Maybe they should just release all of the prisoners, since the taxpayers don't want to pay for any of it.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

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Darth Wong wrote:California spends more than $10 billion every year on prisons. Maybe they should just release all of the prisoners, since the taxpayers don't want to pay for any of it.
Actually, the Governor has already threatened to do that. Not for ALL prisoners, mind you, but a large number of them. (Also, the prison cuts still aren't anything compared to what California Solar Initivative costs us, but don't tell the Legislature that because it's their giant pet project of pork).
Patrick Degan wrote:Tell the voters that the bugetary crisis is going to force the state and counties to cut back on the fire services and that when their homes burn in the next brushfire, they can think about whether paying taxes might actually be a good idea or not.
That's what the Firefighters' Union was saying. But it's not like Californians aren't paying taxes--even with these proposals shot down it still imposes the sixth highest tax burden in the country on taxpayers as a whole, the highest tax burden on people in high income groups, and the second or third highest tax burden on corporations (which significantly understates the state's taxation of corporations because CA law actually requires them to incorporate here, and hence pay taxes here as opposed to incorporating in other states and merely paying registration fees with other states in which the company wishes to do business).
Pablo Sanchez wrote:I don't know how much we can read about the actual attitude of California's electorate from these results, because of the absurdly low turnout. The moral atmosphere is probably more along the lines of mindless apathy and unwillingness to face difficult decisions. When state government actually does grind to a halt you can expect the 83% of registered voters who refused to have an opinion to turn up very quickly to whine about the disaster.
Well, the government has pretty much ground to a halt. I know we can expect a lot of voters to whine, but even polls of registered voters have suggested that the budget proposals were wildly unpopular, so the low voter turnout wasn't what did them in--it was voter hostility to the solutions proposed.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

Post by Erik von Nein »

They're already cutting prison costs. My girlfriend's parents both work in the prison system and they've both received a 10% pay cut, and rumors are flying like mad that there's worse on the way.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

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Yeah, being able to make informed choice my ass. People most of the time would always vote for their immediate interest over the long term interest.

When they realise that they make bad choice for the state, they can just go about it's not my fault, it is the fault of the ruling party!
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

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ray245 wrote:Yeah, being able to make informed choice my ass. People most of the time would always vote for their immediate interest over the long term interest.
It's interesting that you don't think it possible for people to make informed decisions in favor of lower taxes and reduced government services, even with a government that spends spectacular sums of taxpayer money on unambiguously retarded objectives like the ones I pointed out, earlier. But let's take this a step further: why did the politicians put this up to vote if it was so obvious that voters would make a choice against their long term interest? Isn't that the fault of the ruling party that they went about trying to get a tax hike in a completely flawed manner?
When they realise that they make bad choice for the state, they can just go about it's not my fault, it is the fault of the ruling party!
I like your assumption that voters will realize that they have made a bad decision for the state.

But moreover, how is this not the fault of the politicians? They were the ones that set the spending policies that got us here. Even if it does turn out to be a mistake, why should voters be responsible for politicians putting themselves in a position whereby they had to go to voters in a special election to ask for a massive tax-hike, which according to you was certain to fail because it asked voters to look at their "long term interest" over their immediate interest (as if it's completely impossible that voting for a tax hike could harm taxpayers in the long run as well as the short).
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

Post by Erik von Nein »

Wait, what tax hikes are you talking about? The provisions in proposition 1A? Those were tax hikes, they were extensions for the personal income tax, sales and use tax, and vehicle license tax.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

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I voted, but it wasn't easy. They moved my ordinary polling place to a trailer park that I never knew existed, even though it was only 4 blocks away. This place had no signage, and I only found it after about 20 minutes of wandering. I didn't vote a straight 'no', but there was some stuff I couldn't agree with. As for the 'voter turnout', generally in California the attitude I've seen is 'Why bother? They'll just do whatever they want regardless of how we vote.'
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

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Master of Ossus wrote:
Actually, the Governor has already threatened to do that. Not for ALL prisoners, mind you, but a large number of them. (Also, the prison cuts still aren't anything compared to what California Solar Initivative costs us, but don't tell the Legislature that because it's their giant pet project of pork).
Didn't that already happen on a small scale? I sure know a number of other states, PA included started releasing people early last year to trim budgets.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Hah, Washington actually managed to bridge its 2 billion budget deficit (we only make a state budget every two years--which is also far more sensible than an annual one--so it was 4 billion projected over two years) and even reserved 489 million against further losses in revenue. I have little sympathy for the Californians, who manage to have programmes not really more effective than our's, which cost substantially more due to what can only be corruption, inefficiency, and general incompetence. And we don't even have a state income tax. It required painful cuts and will personally affect me with tuition increases, but that is the price of things.

More sympathetically, the problem is that the government of California is 100% dysfunctional from top to bottom--I got into other states outside of the Pacific Northwest and I'm always amazed at even what poor condition the roads are in. California largely avoids that (unlike the Midwest, where the endless thumping under the car makes it sound like a tank to me) but the sheer magnitude of these expenditures apparently going to nothing discernable is rather awe-inspiring.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

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Couple of things need to be addressed so people are aware of how things went down between the budget and propositions were first crafted and passed up until they were voted on yesterday.

Prop 1A, was a spending cap of sorts, and it's passage would extend the new taxes that went into effect on April 1st, and the Vehicle License Fees that began yesterday, by an additional two years. Most people were angry about the increases in the first place and took issue with the prop adding them for another two years. Others were also angry as they read the ballot information and found this gem:
Restrictions on Revenues and Spending. In any given year, Proposition 1A does not strictly limit the amount of revenues that could be collected by the state or the amount of spending that could occur. The measure does not restrict the ability of the Legislature and the Governor to approve tax increases to collect on top of existing revenues. Regarding spending, while the measure could make it harder to approve spending increases in some years by restricting the access to revenues, it would not cap the total level of spending that could be authorized in any year if alternative revenues were approved.
Which in essence negates the spending cap.

Some organization also took issue with the ballot language. The legislature and the governor were the ones that created the ballot measures, and crafted the ballot wording. They worded it in a way to hide the mention of the tax increases to the public, which they were sued over.

Prop 1B, was tied into to Prop 1A, as $9.3 Billion would be funded from the rainy day fund created by 1A to fund K-12. Which was seen as a payoff to the California Teachers Association(CTA) to not campaign against the props.

Now, the proponents for the propositions were well funded by an average of 8:1 to the groups against the propositions.
The campaign's financial battle has been a walkover, with the groups backing Props 1A to 1F raising a combined $25.5 million, compared to about $3.1 million for the opposition.
That money funded ads using some of the scare tactics that was mentioned before. As can be seen here(Youtube link). And one from the teachers unions.

Now for perspective, these ads and others before it, appeared on the airwaves a month before the election. While this ad, against prop 1a showed up a week before.

So why did these props fail? My observation is that those that voted were angry about the tax increases and the games the state played with the language to fooling them into passing these initiatives. Today, the pols are saying the public wasn't well informed about the props. However, in my opinion, those that did vote yesterday were well informed and those that weren't, didn't show up to vote.

As for those concerned about the funding to education, take note that in 1988 that the voters passed Proposition 98 which has a minimum funding amount for education from the budget; which is around 40%.

I made a previous post before about the CA budget. I'll make another post in this thread, or maybe another thread to discuss this, I'm still finding more information on the money the state spends. However I'll make a quick point. The state gets around 90-100 billion in taxes but spends around 140+ billion. The state has a spending problem, not a tax problem.
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Mayabird
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

Post by Mayabird »

Speaking of Washington vs. California, mail-in voting is awesome. Higher turnouts, cheaper, there's a paper trail, no sketchy voting machines, no having to hunt down a freaking trailer to do your civic duty, and people can research the ballot initiatives with the ballot in front of them. And did I mention that it's cheaper? That seems to be really important right now.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

We have mail-in voting in California, too. All you have to do is pick up a ballot at some point in the month before the election, fill it out, and drop it in the mail.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

Post by Master of Ossus »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:We have mail-in voting in California, too. All you have to do is pick up a ballot at some point in the month before the election, fill it out, and drop it in the mail.
Indeed. I always vote absentee, simply because my work schedule sometimes interferes with my ability to get to the polls on any particular day, so it helps to have an extra few days to fill the thing out and mail it back in.
Sea Skimmer wrote:Didn't that already happen on a small scale? I sure know a number of other states, PA included started releasing people early last year to trim budgets.
Quite possibly. California has announced that it's releasing prisoners, though, as a result of the budget measures' failure, and I'm sure that's on a much larger scale than anything that's been put in place, already.
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Re: CA Voters Crush Tax Hikes, Blame Government

Post by starslayer »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:I have little sympathy for the Californians, who manage to have programmes not really more effective than our's, which cost substantially more due to what can only be corruption, inefficiency, and general incompetence.
Just to make sure, are those costs much more per capita or simply as a whole? If they're as a whole, well, we've got five times Washington's population. Wouldn't surprise me at all if it were a significant difference per capita, though.
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