Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

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Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

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WASHINGTON (May 20) - In a major rebuke to President Barack Obama, the Senate voted overwhelmingly on Wednesday to block the transfer of Guantanamo detainees to the United States and denied the administration the millions it sought to close the prison.

The 90-6 Senate vote — paired with similar House action last week — was a clear sign to Obama that he faces a tough fight getting the Democratic-controlled Congress to agree with his plans to shut down the detention center and move the 240 detainees.

The vote came as FBI Director Robert Mueller told Congress that bringing Guantanamo detainees to the United States could pose a number of risks, even if they were kept in maximum-security prisons. Mueller's testimony to a House panel put him at odds with the president and undercut the administration's arguments for shuttering the facility.

"The concerns we have about individuals who may support terrorism being in the United States run from concerns about providing financing, radicalizing others," Mueller said, as well as "the potential for individuals undertaking attacks in the United States."

Last month, Obama asked for $80 million for the Pentagon and the Justice Department to close the facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, by January. In the eyes of the world, the prison has come to exemplify harsh U.S. anti-terror tactics and detention without trial for almost all of its inmates, most of whom were captured in Afghanistan.

The administration put its Democratic allies in a difficult spot by requesting the Guantanamo closure money before developing a plan for what to do with its detainees.

Obama is scheduled to give a major address Thursday outlining in more detail his plans for Guantanamo, but it's already clear that many in Congress have little appetite for bringing detainees to U.S. soil, even if the inmates would be held in maximum-security prisons.

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs indicated Wednesday that Obama's plan is still evolving.

"The president hasn't decided where some of the detainees will be transferred. Those are decisions that the task forces are working on and that the president will lay out and discuss tomorrow," Gibbs told reporters.

In recent weeks, Republicans have called for keeping Guantanamo open, saying abuses at the facility are a thing of the past and describing it as a state-of-the-art prison that's nicer than some U.S. prisons. And they warn that terrorists who can't be convicted might be set free in the United States.

"The American people don't want these men walking the streets of America's neighborhoods," Sen. John Thune, R-S.D., said Wednesday. "The American people don't want these detainees held at a military base or federal prison in their backyard, either."

In another development Wednesday, a federal judge said the United States can continue to hold some prisoners at Guantanamo indefinitely without any charges.

Obama's new Pentagon policy chief, Michele Flournoy, said it's unrealistic to think that no detainees will come to the United States, and that the government can't ask allies to take detainees while refusing to take on the same burden.

"When we are asking allies to do their fair share in dealing with this challenge we need to do our fair share," Flournoy told reporters.


Obama ally Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., pointed out that not a single prisoner has ever escaped from a federal "supermax" prison and that 347 convicted terrorists are already being held in U.S. prisons.

Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, among the few Republicans joining former GOP presidential nominee John McCain of Arizona in calling for Guantanamo to be closed, scoffed at the idea that the government can't find a way to hold Guantanamo prisoners in the United States. Graham noted that 400,000 German and Japanese prisoners were held during World War II.

"The idea that we cannot find a place to securely house 250-plus detainees within the United States is not rational. We have done this before," Graham said. "But it is my belief that you need a plan before you close Gitmo."

While allies such as Durbin have cast the development as a delay of only a few months, other Democrats have made it plain they don't want any of Guantanamo's detainees sent to the United States to stand trial or serve prison sentences.

Despite the setback, some Democrats said Obama should not be underestimated.

"The president's very capable of putting together a plan that I think will win the approval of a majority of members of Congress," said moderate Nebraska Democrat Ben Nelson. "I can't imagine that he won't."
Well, there goes that idea. Of course, plenty of GOP screeching that Obama wants to "release terrorists on the streets."

I'm not sure how I feel about placing the prisoners in normal maximum-security prisons, however. There's plenty of them in the United States, and with less than 500 detainees, there's not going to be a problem with overcrowding. Maybe a problem with keep track of all of them if they're spread out amongst the prisons, however.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by Alyeska »

You know what? Fuckem. We should release them on the streets if thats what it comes down to. We don't have any fucking evidence. We live in a country of laws that require due process and evidence to put people on trial. If we can't meet that burden, then release the people. We do it all the time with tens of thousands of "criminals" every year. Fucking deal with it.

The GOP can kiss my ass.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by Darth Wong »

It seems to me like the GOP has figured out how to deal with Obama. Obama is a compromiser and negotiator, and if they simply behave in an incredibly unreasonable fashion, he will compromise and they will get much of their agenda passed, without having to hold office or take the blame for the consequences.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by Vympel »

The Senate's to blame for this shit. They're a bunch of craven cowards, and bizarrely try and make themselves seem Tough and Serrious by buying into the Right's bedwetting fantasies of all the dangerous things Gitmo detainees could do while detained in maximum security American prisons, for fuck's sake. These people are idiots.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by Alyeska »

Darth Wong wrote:It seems to me like the GOP has figured out how to deal with Obama. Obama is a compromiser and negotiator, and if they simply behave in an incredibly unreasonable fashion, he will compromise and they will get much of their agenda passed, without having to hold office or take the blame for the consequences.
Its old school tactics. Its what they pulled against the Democrats when the GOP had power. The Democrats need to realize that they wield more power then a minority power. Use that damned power. Flex your muscles and see where it gets you.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by Starglider »

Darth Wong wrote:It seems to me like the GOP has figured out how to deal with Obama. Obama is a compromiser and negotiator, and if they simply behave in an incredibly unreasonable fashion, he will compromise and they will get much of their agenda passed, without having to hold office or take the blame for the consequences.
It's not like that's an innovation, they did exactly the same thing with Clinton, particularly after they took control of both the Senate and the House in 1995. Still, I mostly blame the Democrats recently, they're too craven and addicted to lobbyist dollars to use their hard-won majorities to accomplish their stated goals.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Why can't we send them back to whatever country they're from?
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by Beowulf »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Why can't we send them back to whatever country they're from?
A number of the countries don't want them back.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Darth Wong wrote:It seems to me like the GOP has figured out how to deal with Obama. Obama is a compromiser and negotiator, and if they simply behave in an incredibly unreasonable fashion, he will compromise and they will get much of their agenda passed, without having to hold office or take the blame for the consequences.
How is it Obama's fault that the Senate is blocking his plans?
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

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The worst you can blame the administration for is not having a plan together already to present to Congress. The rest gets dumped on the Senate--the GOP for whipping up a bullshit scare about ebil super-t'rrists walking through the walls of Leavenworth using their magic powers or some shit, and the Democrats for being craven, worthless cowards (as usual). Honorable mention goes to the American public in general, for actually swallowing the GOP's horseshit and acting like being a nation of bed-wetting NIMBYs.

This fucking country is hopeless.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

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The Romulan Republic wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:It seems to me like the GOP has figured out how to deal with Obama. Obama is a compromiser and negotiator, and if they simply behave in an incredibly unreasonable fashion, he will compromise and they will get much of their agenda passed, without having to hold office or take the blame for the consequences.
How is it Obama's fault that the Senate is blocking his plans?
It's Obama's fault for not playing hardball until now, and giving the impression that he'll cave easily. That emboldens the GOP, and weakens resolve in his party. If he was more aggressive, would it have prevented this? I don't know. But I doubt his conciliatory approach has helped in any way. Not with the GOP mentality being the way it is. They've been painting him as a monster; the least he could do is shoot back.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

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RedImperator wrote:The worst you can blame the administration for is not having a plan together already to present to Congress. The rest gets dumped on the Senate--the GOP for whipping up a bullshit scare about ebil super-t'rrists walking through the walls of Leavenworth using their magic powers or some shit, and the Democrats for being craven, worthless cowards (as usual). Honorable mention goes to the American public in general, for actually swallowing the GOP's horseshit and acting like being a nation of bed-wetting NIMBYs.

This fucking country is hopeless.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

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Darth Wong wrote:It seems to me like the GOP has figured out how to deal with Obama
A 90-6 vote against closing Gitmo, when the current mix of the Senate is 59 Democrats and 40 Republicans (1 undecided seat); seems awfully like a unified bipartisan consensus against closing gitmo; unless the GOP somehow has developed mind control ray technology.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by MKSheppard »

Alyeska wrote:Its old school tactics. Its what they pulled against the Democrats when the GOP had power. The Democrats need to realize that they wield more power then a minority power. Use that damned power. Flex your muscles and see where it gets you.
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The roll call for this vote is accessible via Link

Statement of Purpose:
To prohibit funding to transfer, release, or incarcerate detainees detained at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to or within the United States.

Vote Counts:

YEAs ---90
Akaka (D-HI)
Alexander (R-TN)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Begich (D-AK)
Bennet (D-CO)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Burris (D-IL)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Gillibrand (D-NY)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagan (D-NC)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Inouye (D-HI)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johanns (R-NE)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kaufman (D-DE)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McCaskill (D-MO)
McConnell (R-KY)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Merkley (D-OR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reid (D-NV)
Risch (R-ID)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Shelby (R-AL)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (D-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Thune (R-SD)
Udall (D-CO)
Udall (D-NM)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (D-VA)
Webb (D-VA)
Wicker (R-MS)
Wyden (D-OR)

NAYs ---6
Durbin (D-IL)
Harkin (D-IA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Reed (D-RI)
Whitehouse (D-RI)

Not Voting - 3
Byrd (D-WV)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Rockefeller (D-WV)

Yeah, I'm sure that Chuck Schumer, John Kerry, Dianne Feinstein, Chris Dodd, etc were taken over by the evil Republican Mind Control Ray™
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by Darth Wong »

MKSheppard wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:It seems to me like the GOP has figured out how to deal with Obama
A 90-6 vote against closing Gitmo, when the current mix of the Senate is 59 Democrats and 40 Republicans (1 undecided seat); seems awfully like a unified bipartisan consensus against closing gitmo; unless the GOP somehow has developed mind control ray technology.
Just like the vote to invade Iraq. It's not mind-control technology; it's their own propaganda network, a society geared to be highly receptive to right-wing fearmongering, and a national population full of idiots.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

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Dammit, Feingold, I thought better of you.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

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Darth Wong wrote:Just like the vote to invade Iraq. It's not mind-control technology; it's their own propaganda network, a society geared to be highly receptive to right-wing fearmongering, and a national population full of idiots.
Wait what...are you really saying that the "propaganda network" of the Republicans is so strong that it could result in a 90-6 vote against the measure? Really? Nine Democrats voted "No" or abstained. Pray tell, how can you possibly say with a straight face that the 50 Democrats and Independents who voted "Yes" caved in to "right wing fearmongering?" Shit, if that's really true, the Republicans are still in control.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

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Count Chocula wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Just like the vote to invade Iraq. It's not mind-control technology; it's their own propaganda network, a society geared to be highly receptive to right-wing fearmongering, and a national population full of idiots.
Wait what...are you really saying that the "propaganda network" of the Republicans is so strong that it could result in a 90-6 vote against the measure? Really? Nine Democrats voted "No" or abstained. Pray tell, how can you possibly say with a straight face that the 50 Democrats and Independents who voted "Yes" caved in to "right wing fearmongering?" Shit, if that's really true, the Republicans are still in control.
According to the media which still overwhelmingly features conservatives over liberals, and has been obediently chasing the PELOSI KNEW shiny object thrown by some GOPers like trained dogs, yes, they are still in control.

You want propaganda? Open up some papers, especially any with national circulation, and observe the opinion columns. Hell, Yoo, the lawyer who wrote the opinions for violating the Constitution for Bush, got a gig in media. Of COURSE the propaganda network is that powerful.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by Thanas »

Well, turns out the USA is really a country that is no better than Russia when it comes to locking up people without evidence. Oh wait, it is even worse since in Russia you get at least a semi-public show trial (Yukos managers).

The next time an american opens his big mouth about "bringing freedom to other people", I bet I know how those despots will respond. Which is a large shame.

But hey, congratulations, America, for taking another step towards fascism. I hear it worked so well for other countries before.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by The Original Nex »

Seems to me that this vote is being misconstrued. Yea it's stupid that they didn't just fund it now, but the Democrats are refusing to fund it until the Administration provides a specific plan for what to do with the Guantanamo inmates. In all likelihood they'll provide the funding once the administration does this.

Stupid? Yes. Craven? Probably. A sign that the GOP will somehow manage to steamroll the White House in the future? No.
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by hongi »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Why can't we send them back to whatever country they're from?
God, I'd love to. But it turns out they actually do come from America...oh, you mean the Gitmo detainees? :lol:
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by Big Orange »

If the Republicans have a still dangerous propaganda machine (which has gotten even shriller) that can induce voters to their favour, how effective will they be in putting the dampner on Universal Healthcare?
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by FSTargetDrone »

Obama speaking right now on the closure of Guantanamo Bay and torture:
Obama: U.S. 'lost way' fighting terror

Mike Allen Mike Allen – 2 hrs 5 mins ago

President Barack Obama plans to say in his speech Thursday that the U.S. lost its way in fighting terrorism over the past eight years by failing to trust its institutions and values, according to an administration official.

Obama will also renew his pledge to close the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, saying he will honor the commitment he made in the first week of his presidency.

In a remarkable split-screen presentation of opposing worldviews, former Vice President Dick Cheney will speak on the exact same topic moments after Obama finishes. Cheney is appearing at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, where the audience will watch the president on large TV screens.

Cheney will say: “When President Obama makes wise decisions, he deserves our support. And when he mischaracterizes the national security decisions we made in the Bush years, he deserves an answer.”

Cheney will argue that his intent is not to look backward but will say that a truthful telling of history is necessary to inform our choices going forward. “Though I'm not here to speak for George W. Bush, I am certain that no one wishes the current administration more success in defending the country than we do,” Cheney will say. “What I want to do today is set forth the strategic thinking that drove our policies.”

Both the president and Cheney will rest a good part of their case on effectiveness, with the president saying the last administration’s approach to fighting terror was not effective, and Cheney arguing that those programs are the reason there has been no second Sept. 11.

During his remarks at the National Archives: Obama will say that the Bush administration established an ad hoc legal approach for fighting terrorism that was neither effective nor sustainable and alienated the nation from its allies.

Obama will argue that so-called enhanced interrogation techniques such as waterboarding are not the most effective, undermine the rule of law, alienate the U.S. in the world, serve as a recruitment tool for terrorists and increase the will of our enemies to fight us, while decreasing the will of others to work with America.

The president will say that while the nation must ensure that its security measures and our justice system are ready to address the threats of the 21st century, the Obama administration will uphold America’s laws and its values that are the reason we have become the strongest nation in the world and persisted through crises that have threatened our core.

Obama will say that the paramount responsibility of any president is to keep the American people safe. That is what he thinks about every morning when he wakes up and every night when he goes to sleep. The president believes with every fiber of his being that we cannot keep this country safe unless we enlist the power of our most fundamental values.

The president will refer to the setting, saying that the documents in the National Archives — including the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights — are not simply words written into aging parchment. They are the foundation of liberty and justice in this country, and a light that shines for all who seek freedom, fairness, equality and dignity in the world.

Obama will point out that he is providing the resources to take the fight to the extremists in Afghanistan and Pakistan who attacked us on Sept. 11; investing in the 21st-century military and intelligence capabilities; re-energizing a global nonproliferation regime and locking down loose nuclear material to deny the world’s most dangerous people access to the world’s deadliest weapons; protecting our borders and increasing our preparedness for any future attack or natural disaster; building new partnerships around the world to disrupt, dismantle and defeat Al Qaeda and its affiliates; and renewing American diplomacy.

Referring back to the opening week of his presidency, Obama will point out that he ordered the closing of the prison camp at Guantanamo Bay. For over seven years, the U.S. has detained hundreds of people at Guantanamo. During that time, the system of Military Commissions at Guantanamo succeeded in convicting only three suspected terrorists.

Obama will contend that the record is clear: Rather than keep Americans safer, the prison at Guantanamo has weakened American national security. Turning to detainees who remain, the president will announce this framework:

--When feasible, try those who have violated American criminal laws in federal courts.

--When necessary, try those who violate the rules of war through Military Commissions.

--When possible, transfer to third countries those detainees who can be safely transferred.
Obama is speaking right now, standing in front of the Constitution itself.

Turn on the TV.
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hongi
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by hongi »

I'm liking what I'm hearing.
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FSTargetDrone
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Re: Senate votes against closure of Gitmo

Post by FSTargetDrone »

Obama is coming out with both barrels. He is taking it head-on, stating that he is bound by law to act the way he is. He is challenging "fear-mongering," saying how allowing torture threatens US troops themselves if captured, making a case for military trials, etc.

And what a theatrical setting. His voice is echoing off the walls of the National Archives and his oration is in fine form.
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