Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

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Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/51535837.html
On the day after President Barack Obama asked the nation to back his planned revamp of the $2.4 trillion system that pays for health care, opponents and supporters squared off Thursday on the sidewalks surrounding the U.S. courthouse in downtown Baton Rouge.

Police officers kept the two groups — which police estimated to be about 125 people — apart as the sides shouted at one another.

The gathering was largely peaceful — police reported no arrests — but points made on health-care plans soon were overshadowed by arguments of whether the president is an American citizen.

Obama spoke to the nation Wednesday night, arguing his proposed overhaul of the health-care system would help provide coverage for an estimated 47 million uninsured Americans and curtail the rising costs for consumers.

“I’ve also pledged that health insurance reform will not add towards deficit over the next decade. And I mean it,” Obama said during a nationally televised news conference.

Several proposals before Congress, now controlled by Democrats, generally provide subsidies for people and employers to purchase insurance, penalize those who don’t and provide a larger government safety net for those who can’t afford a policy.

Medicaid provides health care for the poor and uninsured. Medicare provides health care for the elderly.

Opponents, who include Gov. Bobby Jindal and U.S. Rep. Bill Cassidy, R-Baton Rouge, contend taxpayer subsidies and the ability to operate at a loss eventually would drive most consumers into government-run health care.

“I don’t believe it’ll work,” Dwight Hudson, of Central, told the crowd of opponents to applause.

“Cost is the problem,” said Hudson, adding he is not particularly satisfied with his health insurance because the deductible is too high.

He favors a consumer-driven system that allows competition within private industry to drive down prices and expand opportunities, he said.

Hudson said he is affiliated with a newly formed local “Tea Party.”

Nationally, the Tea Party is funded by the some of the biggest donors to the Republican Party, according to media reports.

Hudson said he was a registered to vote as an independent and was unsure of the GOP’s position on the issue.

Hudson said he and others in the local Tea Party became aware through an Internet posting that supporters of Obama’s plan would rally at the courthouse.

Tea Party members, who contacted each other via e-mails and phone calls, and others arrived about 15 minutes into the supporters’ event in numbers that eventually came to overwhelm the couple of dozen attending the original event.

City police were called for help at 10:15 a.m., said Sgt. Don Kelly, a spokesman.

Federal marshals kept the crowd off the steps of the courthouse and on narrow sidewalks.

Many spilled into Florida Street.

Steven Walker of New Orleans, state director of Louisiana’s Organizing for America, said he wanted a handful of people to share their struggles caused by inadequate health-care insurance.

Obama’s plan would lower costs and free up options for people with insurance while giving people without insurance access to policies, said Walker, whose group is affiliated with the Democratic National Committee, which is promoting Obama’s agenda.

Walker said Obama’s plan would allow individuals greater choice.

“But this is a campaign of smear and fear,” Walker said pointing to an opposition sign that condemned the president as a communist.

“These people are anti-Obama,” he said.

A few feet down the sidewalk, on the other side of a cordon of police officers, Kurt Wagner, a Port Allen insurance sales manager, asked the crowd: “Is he rightfully the president?”

“No,” responded his listeners.

The issue of whether Obama was born in the U.S. has been making the rounds on blogs since the election.

Obama has distributed copies of a certification from the state of Hawaii saying he was born in Honolulu.

Because the certification of a live birth is not a birth certificate, some people contend the president has not adequately proven he was born on American soil, one of the criteria for becoming president.

Outside the Baton Rouge federal courthouse Thursday, the debate over Obama’s birth raged much longer than the one involving his health plan.
Fuck the Birthers, fuck the goddamn teabaggers, fuck the Dems for lurching ever farther to the right, fuck the corporatist lobbyists poisoning our democracy, and especially fuck ALL the rightwingers for calling for Civil War 2.0 anyway! :finger:

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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by PeZook »

Because the certification of a live birth is not a birth certificate, some people contend the president has not adequately proven he was born on American soil, one of the criteria for becoming president.
So...the certificate says Obama was born alive in Honolulu.

However, this...somehow...doesn't prove he was born on American soil?

What?
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by General Zod »

PeZook wrote:
Because the certification of a live birth is not a birth certificate, some people contend the president has not adequately proven he was born on American soil, one of the criteria for becoming president.
So...the certificate says Obama was born alive in Honolulu.

However, this...somehow...doesn't prove he was born on American soil?

What?
They're fuckwits who don't understand that a CLB is the exact same thing as a birth certificate and want to pretend that the minor variation in the name makes a difference.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by Azazal »

So out of curiosity, how many of these birther douche-bags are 9/11 troofers as well? Seems like the perfect leap to go from evil Bush/NWO behind 9/11 to Obama is a NWO plant that's from unAmericastan here to destroy the county from within.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by SirNitram »

Azazal wrote:So out of curiosity, how many of these birther douche-bags are 9/11 troofers as well? Seems like the perfect leap to go from evil Bush/NWO behind 9/11 to Obama is a NWO plant that's from unAmericastan here to destroy the county from within.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by Qwerty 42 »

General Zod wrote:
PeZook wrote:
Because the certification of a live birth is not a birth certificate, some people contend the president has not adequately proven he was born on American soil, one of the criteria for becoming president.
So...the certificate says Obama was born alive in Honolulu.

However, this...somehow...doesn't prove he was born on American soil?

What?
They're fuckwits who don't understand that a CLB is the exact same thing as a birth certificate and want to pretend that the minor variation in the name makes a difference.
Supposedly, they're not the same insofar as it isn't the piece of paper the hospital filled out when Obama was born, but it is a state authorized paper bearing the same information, so it really does not matter. It even says at the bottom of the photocopy provided that the paper can be used as evidence of location/date/etc. of birth before a court.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by LadyTevar »

Qwerty 42 wrote:
General Zod wrote:
PeZook wrote:So...the certificate says Obama was born alive in Honolulu.

However, this...somehow...doesn't prove he was born on American soil?

What?
They're fuckwits who don't understand that a CLB is the exact same thing as a birth certificate and want to pretend that the minor variation in the name makes a difference.
Supposedly, they're not the same insofar as it isn't the piece of paper the hospital filled out when Obama was born, but it is a state authorized paper bearing the same information, so it really does not matter. It even says at the bottom of the photocopy provided that the paper can be used as evidence of location/date/etc. of birth before a court.
The piece of paper that the hospital fills out, that most mouth-breathers call a "Birth Certificate" is NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT.

The shiny thing a hospital gives out is the "heirloom" or "mother's copy" of a birth certificate, and has two uses: 1. Lets the mother see if there are mistakes on the certificate. 2. Goes in the Baby Book for posterity.

The OFFICIAL CERTIFICATE, the one that goes on file at the STATE OFFICE in every single state of the union, is the CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH. This is the title at the top of the page, to differentiate from the "Certificate of StillBirth" or the "Physicians Certificate of Death".

I've posted the differences elsewhere, but the LEGAL DOCUMENT, the one that you've needed the last 20years to put your child in school, to get a drivers license or ID, to get a Passport, to prove your age to Social Security, or to prove your ID to the State or Federal Government in any other way, is the CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH.

And that Certificate must show the Name, Date of Birth (Time of Birth in some states), Parents Names, the Address where they lived, the State they were born in, (Their Race in some states), The Hospital's Name and Address, the name and title of the Attending, the Name and Title of the Certifier, and the Signature of the State Registrar and date that it was Signed/Filed with the State.

*sigh* This is starting to be a PetPeeve for me....
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by PeZook »

Best thing is, I'm pretty sure whatever system the US has for candidates to apply in order to run for presidency involves a simple check of citizenship. It would be a total joke otherwise.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by Isolder74 »

Well on a plus side Truthers seems to have lost their big media spotlight. Lets hope it stays that way.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by Isolder74 »

Getto edit:

Oh and wouldn't the document they want to see contain less information then this official one does. I'm pretty sure mine doesn't say where I was born just the time and date and full name. Also I have to use the official CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH when I need a legal document.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by Trogdor »

You know, whenever I hear something like this, I can only wonder what the fuck the birthers are trying to achieve. Do they honestly think they can get Obama ousted from the White House if only they can get everyone else to see the "truth" despite the fact that he's already taken the oath of office and has been the president for a while now? And even if he were to be kicked out, do they think that McCain would replace him instead of Biden or something? The whole thing just boggles my mind.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by Serafina »

Trogdor wrote:You know, whenever I hear something like this, I can only wonder what the fuck the birthers are trying to achieve. Do they honestly think they can get Obama ousted from the White House if only they can get everyone else to see the "truth" despite the fact that he's already taken the oath of office and has been the president for a while now? And even if he were to be kicked out, do they think that McCain would replace him instead of Biden or something? The whole thing just boggles my mind.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by Qwerty 42 »

LadyTevar wrote:The piece of paper that the hospital fills out, that most mouth-breathers call a "Birth Certificate" is NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT.

The shiny thing a hospital gives out is the "heirloom" or "mother's copy" of a birth certificate, and has two uses: 1. Lets the mother see if there are mistakes on the certificate. 2. Goes in the Baby Book for posterity.

The OFFICIAL CERTIFICATE, the one that goes on file at the STATE OFFICE in every single state of the union, is the CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH. This is the title at the top of the page, to differentiate from the "Certificate of StillBirth" or the "Physicians Certificate of Death".

I've posted the differences elsewhere, but the LEGAL DOCUMENT, the one that you've needed the last 20years to put your child in school, to get a drivers license or ID, to get a Passport, to prove your age to Social Security, or to prove your ID to the State or Federal Government in any other way, is the CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH.

And that Certificate must show the Name, Date of Birth (Time of Birth in some states), Parents Names, the Address where they lived, the State they were born in, (Their Race in some states), The Hospital's Name and Address, the name and title of the Attending, the Name and Title of the Certifier, and the Signature of the State Registrar and date that it was Signed/Filed with the State.

*sigh* This is starting to be a PetPeeve for me....
I stand corrected.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Trogdor wrote:You know, whenever I hear something like this, I can only wonder what the fuck the birthers are trying to achieve. Do they honestly think they can get Obama ousted from the White House if only they can get everyone else to see the "truth" despite the fact that he's already taken the oath of office and has been the president for a while now? And even if he were to be kicked out, do they think that McCain would replace him instead of Biden or something? The whole thing just boggles my mind.
From a legal standpoint, IF there was incontrovertible proof that Obama had never been eligible for the Presidency, he'd be forced to step down. Then, it's 50/50 whether Biden would have to step down, because you could argue that the entire 2008 election was invalid. If Biden stepped down, McCain wouldn't step up, it would be Pelosi as an interim President. Of course, it would be a massive loss of face and esteem for the democratic party, and a thumb in the eye to all the 'libruls' who foisted such an unamerican person off on us.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by Omega18 »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:From a legal standpoint, IF there was incontrovertible proof that Obama had never been eligible for the Presidency, he'd be forced to step down. Then, it's 50/50 whether Biden would have to step down, because you could argue that the entire 2008 election was invalid. If Biden stepped down, McCain wouldn't step up, it would be Pelosi as an interim President. Of course, it would be a massive loss of face and esteem for the democratic party, and a thumb in the eye to all the 'libruls' who foisted such an unamerican person off on us.
Actually my understanding is the legal issues are not clear at all at this point, and once Obama (or another hypothetical President in the future) was actually certified as the winner of the 2008 election (with the electors having previously voted and everything else), its not legally clear if Obama would be removed from his office under those circumstances. Unless Obama voluntarily resigned, it would presumably be the Supreme Court who would actually decide this issue. (Its actually possible that the question of if there is evidence that Obama had previously known this or of if its possible his mother had kept it secret from Obama would decide whether he actually is removed from office.) Its also not clear if the person to take Obama's place would be Biden or Pelosi since this particular situation is not well addressed in the Constitution.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by Darth Holbytlan »

Omega18 wrote:Its also not clear if the person to take Obama's place would be Biden or Pelosi since this particular situation is not well addressed in the Constitution.
The Constitution is pretty clear that the Electors vote separate ballots for President and Vice President. In other words, the choice of Prez and VP are not linked, so it's hard to see how invalidating one would invalidate the other.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Qwerty 42 wrote:
Supposedly, they're not the same insofar as it isn't the piece of paper the hospital filled out when Obama was born, but it is a state authorized paper bearing the same information, so it really does not matter. It even says at the bottom of the photocopy provided that the paper can be used as evidence of location/date/etc. of birth before a court.

Do these fuckwits not realize that in many states you can with a court order have major information on your birth certificate changed, have the original record destroyed by the state, and only the new, modified record will remain? This is the case in Washington State, where I legally changed my name; my birth certificate now has my current name on it, there is no evidence of any other, and the originals in the county records have been destroyed per state law and replaced by a new original with the corrected information. Do they seriously think the original piece of paper even exists? The only thing that matters is the paper trail and that, clearly, is well established and legally inheirited by the existing documentation.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by SirNitram »

The people trying to work out 'why' are overthinking it hugely. It's very simple. It has to be, given the participants.

1) Presidents must be natural born Americans.
2) Obama is not.(They insist.)
3) Obama must then, not be President.
4) Therefore calling for, fomenting, participating in, wishing for, or urging on, any attempt to remove him from power via everything from assassination to insurgency is not ACTUALLY treason, but brave patriotic heroism.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by Invictus ChiKen »

Lots of great information in this thread.

Especally the stuff from LadyT and The Duchess, thanks ladies that was useful for a debate I am in on a right wing forum ^.^
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by The Spartan »

Conservatives are starting to get fed up. MSNBC.com
Keyes, Birthers, Buckley and Birchers: Oh my!
One conservative's call to end the so-called 'Birthers' movement
COMMENTARY
By Bill Pascoe, CQ Guest Columnist
CQ Politics
updated 2:37 p.m. CT, Tues., July 28, 2009
WASHINGTON - "Dear Birthers: Stop! Sincerely, Serious Conservatives."

I’ve held fire for the last several months as I’ve watched the so-called "Birther" movement gain steam. At first it was amusing, like playing a drinking game — you know, like taking a shot every time Chris Matthews explains why he insists on pronouncing the former Vice President’s name "CHEE-knee."

It’s not amusing anymore.

As one of the GOP operatives whose job it was to defeat Barack Obama in a campaign for federal office (there have only been three GOP campaigns run against him, and I’ve been involved with two of them), I can attest to the fact that nowhere in our opposition research did we find any reason to believe that the man was not a natural born citizen of the United States.

I can also attest to the fact that Alan Keyes, who, at about 1:22 into this video shot on February 20 of this year, lays out the "Birther" case against Obama, never raised any doubts about Obama’s alleged overseas birth while he was running against Obama for the United States Senate in Illinois in 2004.

Oh, Alan Keyes said all sorts of other nutty things while he was the GOP Senate nominee in 2004, the kinds of things that cause campaign operatives to go gray prematurely — "Jesus Christ would not vote for my opponent," Second Daughter Mary Cheney was a "selfish hedonist" and other such bon mots — but he never once challenged Obama’s place of birth.

Nor did he suggest Obama had anything to do with the introduction of the Edsel, nor the marketing of New Coke; nor the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby, nor the disappearance of Amelia Earhart; nor did Keyes allege Obama was anywhere near Graceland on the morning of August 16, 1977, nor did he suggest Obama had anything to do with the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa.

But that "Birther" thing ...

Seriously. Is this anything but a gift to the Democrats?

Am I the only one to notice that mainstream media attention to the "Birthers" has picked up in recent weeks, and that this increased attention is coincident to the turn in Obama’s approval ratings?

For instance, a search of The Washington Post web site on the term "Birther" yields as its oldest hit this one from July 6; a search of The New York Times, though, shows one June reference in passing and then the first real mention of the term on July 22.

Far be it from me to assume one is the cause of the other, but, still, it is an interesting coincidence.


Coincidence or not, it is eating up valuable air time and gobbling up precious inches of type that could, and should, be devoted to other, more pressing, matters, like the self-immolation of the Democratic Party as it struggles to find a way to reform the health care delivery system without destroying it.

Reasonable and responsible conservatives, thus, are stuck. We are being lumped in with irresponsible and unreasonable conspiracy theorists.

And I believe the time has come for reasonable and responsible conservatives to deal with the "Birther" Problem.

In January 1962, conservative leaders faced a similar problem: How to deal with the members of the John Birch Society, whose leader, Robert Welch, believed that the former president of the United States, Dwight D. Eisenhower, was a a conscious agent of the International Communist Conspiracy.

National Review Founder William F. Buckley, Jr., Arizona Sen. Barry Goldwater, conservative historian and philosopher Russell Kirk, and American Enterprise Institute President William Baroody took it upon themselves secretly to meet at The Breakers hotel in Palm Beach, where they decided Welch and the Birchers would have to be excommunicated from the Conservative Movement, lest their lunacy taint reasonable and responsible conservative political activity.

Were Buckley alive today, is there any doubt he would have the same response to the "Birthers"?

I think not.


DISCLAIMER: When I write about the politicians in my past, CQ Politics says I have to turn the cards face up. I arrived in Chicago in late May of 2004 to try to help then-GOP Senate nominee Jack Ryan campaign against Barack Obama . Four weeks after I arrived, Ryan ended his campaign. I was the guy whose idea it was to recruit Alan Keyes to run as Ryan’s replacement candidate -- which led to a nightmarish 86-day campaign, about which all I will say for now is that if I ever sit down and write the book about that campaign, it will be called “It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time.”

Bill Pascoe is CEO of The Foundation for American Freedom, a conservative think tank headquartered in Alexandria, Va. and writes the ”In the Right” blog at CQPolitics.com.
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by Elfdart »

Now the Birthers/Teabaggers are mobbing public meetings held by members of Congress:

Crooks and Liars -Rachel Maddow
Rachel Maddow reports on the "town halls gone wild" that industry backed astroturf groups like Americans for Prosperity are involved in disrupting.

Maddow: This is orchestrated outrage. There is a script for this stuff that was written before these events happened and that appears to be instructions to people to shut down these efforts at civic discourse. The web site Think Progress obtained a leaked memo from a group that calls itself Right Principles. The three page memo details how protesters should behave at town hall events.

Under the heading "Inside the Hall" it says:

You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep's presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early. If he blames Bush for something or offers other excuses -- call him on it, yell back and have someone else tallow-up with a shout-out. The goal is to rattle him.

When the formal Q&A session begins get all your hands up and keep them up.... The balance of the group should applaud when the question is asked, further putting the Rep on the defensive.


Who's giving these rent-a-mob instructions like this? Well that memo was written by a man named Bob MacGuffie. Bob McGuffie is associated with an organization called Freedom Works. Freedom Works is a Washington DC lobbying firm, run by former Republican Majority leader Dick Armey.

Corporate lobbyists are organizing far right hooligan tactics to disrupt civic meetings about health care reform. This is the organized use of intimidation as a political tool in the United States, and I don't mean intimidation euphemistically. I mean literal intimidation.

New York Congressman Tim Bishop who we showed you earlier. He ended up having to be escorted to his car by five police officers for his own safety after his town hall event was over.

And this type of harassment is not just reserved for elected officials.

[.....]

This type of tactic, this type of intimidation is a deliberate choice. And it appears to be stoked and organized by corporate lobbyists. And it is not something that is happening in a vacuum.

[.....]

This is well paid lobbyists doing this as a strategy. It's the same thing with the deathers. These scare your grandmother myths that the whole point of health care reform is secretly to kill old people. This patently, patently false rumor about health care reform as we talked about earlier on this show was started by a woman who sits on the board of directors of one of the nations biggest medical device companies.

Everybody says well politics ain't beanbags. Right. Obviously this is not beanbags. But this isn't hardball either, no offense to Chris. This just isn't even politics. This is orchestrated, mob mentality intimidation. This is called hooliganism.
I have no problem with hecklers in general, but these Teabaggers don't just boo, wave signs and make snide remarks. They are hoodlums who are trying to prevent others from speaking at meetings and need to be dealt with.

Bill Maher had the right idea:



So did the cops when some little peckerhead decided to spam a lecture by John Kerry by hogging the microphone and spewing a bunch of paranoid horseshit:



So why aren't these Teabaggers being kicked out or tasered?
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Knife
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by Knife »

lol, why the contention. the birthers ARE the TEABAGGERs. You are looking at the LIBERTARIAN wing of the conservatives. Why the shock? You couldn't see this coming?
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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CaptainChewbacca
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Bill Maher handled those idiots quite well.
Stuart: The only problem is, I'm losing track of which universe I'm in.
You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker
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Knife
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by Knife »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Bill Maher handled those idiots quite well.

I demand proof. links......
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
TheLostVikings
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Re: Baton Rouge Healthcare Protest Derailed by FUCKING BIRTHERS

Post by TheLostVikings »

Knife wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Bill Maher handled those idiots quite well.

I demand proof. links......
Check two posts above you ...
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