Gay protests as Australia affirms gay marriage ban

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE5700EV20090801

By James Grubel

SYDNEY (Reuters) - Gay activists staged mock weddings across Australia on Saturday as the governing Labour Party voted against changing its ban on gay marriage.

In the largest protest, about 2,000 people, many in bridal veils, marched on the Labour Party's national policy-making conference in Sydney, chanting "gay, straight, black or white, marriage is a civil right."

Similar rallies and mock weddings were held in the southern capital of Melbourne and the Queensland city of Brisbane.

"Of course, we are disappointed there has not been a movement forward on gay marriage," said activist Corey Irlam, adding he believed Prime Minister Kevin Rudd was swayed by church concerns, including from Australia's Catholic cardinal George Pell.

Inside the Labour conference, 400 delegates earlier rejected changes to the party's policy, despite declaring strong opposition to discrimination against gay and lesbian people.

"The prime minister has made it clear that a Labour government will not support any form of recognition of relationships that undermine marriage," Attorney-General Robert McClelland told delegates to the Labour Party conference.

Rudd, a church-going Christian, has long opposed formal recognition of gay marriage and promised before he won power in 2007 that he would ensure national marriage laws would continue to define marriage as between a man and woman.

Gay marriage remains illegal in Australia, but the states of Tasmania and Victoria, and the Australian Capital Territory, all allow a form of civil union, which gives gay couples similar rights to married couples.

Labour promised to push for a national framework to register gay unions, but stopped short of endorsing gay marriage. Rudd's government is also committed to ending all other discrimination on the grounds of sexuality.

Oh, Rudd, what a cretin you are.

[Darth Wong]

Why is Australia trying so hard to be the American South?

[Serafina]

I really hate this "undermining marriage" argument. It's stupid fundy-ranting and nothing else.
No one even tries to back it up logically - they just claim it will undermine marriage, without ever explaining HOW it undermines marriage.

If anything, allowing gay marriage will strenghten marriage. You can argue that other lifeforms for couples (other than marriage) undermine its importance. Therefore, allowing gay marriage will reduce the amount of non-married couples and strenghten marriage.
There is nothing wrong with unmarried couples, of course - but you could see it that way if "sacred marriage" is that important to you.

[Darth Wong]

If this was really about "strengthening marriage", they would increase the hurdles to obtaining a divorce and they would outlaw prenuptial agreements. I see no push whatsoever to do either of those things. Another thing they could do to strengthen marriage is to make state-subsidied marriage counseling freely available to everyone. Of course, hell will freeze over before any of these people advocate that.

[tim31]

Why is Australia trying so hard to be the American South?

Because the former Prime Minister was a conservative afraid of alienating the voting base on the issue, and the current PM grew up in rural poverty and is a member of a pentecostal church. Sure, that's oversimplifying it, but I can't be that far off the mark?

EDIT: they were talking about making divorce harder in an article I read recently; I'll see about getting a source for that.

[bobalot]

Federal Labor and Rudd are on top. The opposition is in shambles. They don't want to give them any issue that they can use to peel off support. Labor needs it for upcoming battles over an emissions trading scheme and healthcare reform.

However, I'm pretty sure the states can overwrite the ban, if they pass their own laws. NSW is heading in that direction and I think Victoria also.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Yes, but for the moment, amusingly, Australia is officially more socially repressive than Albania.

[JointStrikeFighter]

Yes, but for the moment, amusingly, Australia is officially more socially repressive than Albania.

Oh wait no it's not?

Human Development Index

Australia = 4
Albania = 69

Turns out "social repression" is a complex and multi-faceted issue and your just being a fucking myopic retard. Again.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Yes, but for the moment, amusingly, Australia is officially more socially repressive than Albania.

Oh wait no it's not?

Human Development Index

Australia = 4
Albania = 69

Turns out "social repression" is a complex and multi-faceted issue and your just being a fucking myopic retard. Again.

Jesus fucking christ, you sure do have a vendetta against me, don't you? You always pop up in every damned threat I post in, and especially in this case turn what's obviously a joke laced with a bit of humiliation (the better to make Australians activistic about it) into some kind of serious point on my part... I even stated that it was intended to amuse. But of course you don't care, because you've been violating DR.2 against me like a rabid dog for the past year, you worthless shit, and I simply haven't given a fuck about you enough to call you on it before.

[JointStrikeFighter]

Yes, but for the moment, amusingly, Australia is officially more socially repressive than Albania.

Oh wait no it's not?

Human Development Index

Australia = 4
Albania = 69

Turns out "social repression" is a complex and multi-faceted issue and your just being a fucking myopic retard. Again.

Jesus fucking christ, you sure do have a vendetta against me, don't you? You always pop up in every damned threat I post in, and especially in this case turn what's obviously a joke laced with a bit of humiliation (the better to make Australians activistic about it) into some kind of serious point on my part... I even stated that it was intended to amuse. But of course you don't care, because you've been violating DR.2 against me like a rabid dog for the past year, you worthless shit, and I simply haven't given a fuck about you enough to call you on it before.

"WAH WAH I WAS JUST JOKING"

You know, you seem to say that ALL THE FUCKING TIME! Turns out that you're not funny and people here often take stuff you say seriously which you then back-pedal into a joke. Protip; we have emoticons for when you want to convey humour.

EDITED FOR SPELLING

[Lusankya]

On this issue, actually, it's not the Australian people so much as the Australian government.

Majority support same-sex marriage - poll
June 21, 2007

THE majority of Australians believe same-sex couples should be able to marry, a poll has found.

The national poll of 1100 people aged 16 and over found 57 per cent supported same-sex marriage.

The poll, by Galaxy, said 71 per cent believed same-sex de facto couples should be entitled to the same legal rights as heterosexual de facto couples.

Australian Coalition for Equality spokesman Rodney Croome says the results would encourage renewed debate.

"These polls show that ordinary Australians have opened their hearts to the needs and aspirations of same-sex couples in a way that our national leaders have yet to do," Mr Croome said.

Australian Marriage Equality spokesman Peter Furness said the poll reflected Australians' intolerance for discrimination against gays and lesbians.

"The Government and opposition have been misjudging public attitudes, believing it politically wise to back discrimination," he said.

"The days of second-class citizenship for gay and lesbian Australians and their families are numbered."

Federal parliament is expected to discuss the issue when a report by the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission on entitlements for same-sex couples is tabled this afternoon.

Prime Minister John Howard said today he would examine the report but again ruled out legalising same-sex marriage.

Another survey, for political group Get Up!, found 71 per cent of Australians supported full spousal entitlements for same-sex couples and 57 per cent support same-sex marriage.

Mr Howard said today he had not yet the HREOC report but would consider its recommendations.

But he said the Government would not reverse its opposition to gay marriage.

"Let's have a look at the report before we start making any commitments," he said on Sky News.

"We are not in favour of discrimination but of course our views on the nature of marriage in our community are very well known and they won't be changing.

"There's no possibility of our attitude in relation to gay marriage changing.

"In relation to other issues we certainly aren't a Government that supports discrimination."

A more recent Galaxy poll of Queenslanders found that 60 percent believe that same-sex couples should be able to have a civil union with the same legal rights and responsibilities as marriage, while 54 percent support same-sex marriage.

(Note that Queensland is considered to be one of the most conservatives states in Australia.)

Basically, assuming that other states have a similar rate of people suporting gay marriage (which is likely) then gay marriage has enough support that if a referendum were held based on the poll numbers, then the referendum would pass.

[Simon_Jester]

Re: JSF

Speaking for myself, I thought her line was at least three quarters joke before I read your response.

I was amused, so I see no evidence for your claim that "your [sic] not funny"
_______

More substantially, the HDI includes a lot of factors that aren't necessarily related to how free a country is. Australia has a higher standard of living than Albania, and I imagine it has higher rates of education, lower child mortality, and so on... but that doesn't mean it grants more political or social freedom. If you want to prove Zeon wrong, you'd be well advised to compare civil rights to civil rights, and not rely on an index that throws in factors that have little or nothing to do with civil rights.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Yes, anyone with a sense of humour rather than a vendetta would have seen it for what it was.

[Duckie]

This is why in the Albania Approves Gay Marriage thread I considered making a joke about Australia since it was topical, but instead picked on our favorite punching bag the American South.

In retrospect I'm not sure how I was able to predict Aussies would be pissy about such a joke.

[Stark]

Stupid jokes that aren't funny or correctly signed deserve to be mocked.

Anyway Lus, I think that makes what's happening at the government level WORSE. The government is becoming MORE conservative, reactionary, racist etc than the people. And if you've ever met someone from Queensland, you know that's pretty terrible.

[tim31]

Saint Joh: the Ghost who Walks.

[Lusankya]

This is why in the Albania Approves Gay Marriage thread I considered making a joke about Australia since it was topical, but instead picked on our favorite punching bag the American South.

In retrospect I'm not sure how I was able to predict Aussies would be pissy about such a joke.

Well, it's probably because (as the poll results show) it's not the Australian public which opposes gay marriage, but rather the Federal Government. Even fucking Tasmania, which had homosexuality outlawed until 1995 or something ridiculous like that has their state Labor supporting gay marriage, but on a federal level, we're stuck with "Yes, Jesus" clowns.

Anyway Lus, I think that makes what's happening at the government level WORSE. The government is becoming MORE conservative, reactionary, racist etc than the people. And if you've ever met someone from Queensland, you know that's pretty terrible.

It turns out Australians tend to vote 99% based on economic issues?

And I only know one person from Queensland. He moved down here and became a Port Supporter. Ew.

[JointStrikeFighter]

Stupid jokes that aren't funny or correctly signed deserve to be mocked.

Anyway Lus, I think that makes what's happening at the government level WORSE. The government is becoming MORE conservative, reactionary, racist etc than the people. And if you've ever met someone from Queensland, you know that's pretty terrible.

I think there has been a shift away from this since the Howard years, though perhaps it has just been a lessening of the rate of change. The labour party is certainly less desperate to gain the support of the Christian democrats and Family First party than the Liberals were. But really what can be expected; the Liberal opposition is in complete disarray; both at Federal and State level. Hell in the aftermath of the 07 elections the highest position a Liberal party member was in was the fucking mayor of Brisbane. The complete lack of a viable opposition may lead to autocratic tendencies in the government. We were in a similar situation in the days of Crean and Latham labour party leadership; useless opposition = government does what it wants.

[JointStrikeFighter]

Saint Joh: the Ghost who Walks.

Look tim, if you had gerry-mandered all those elections you would be considered a saint too.

[Mr Flibble]

Because the former Prime Minister was a conservative afraid of alienating the voting base on the issue, and the current PM grew up in rural poverty and is a member of a pentecostal church. Sure, that's oversimplifying it, but I can't be that far off the mark?

EDIT: they were talking about making divorce harder in an article I read recently; I'll see about getting a source for that.

I thought K. Rudd was an anglican, but then he could be from the loony branch of the anglicans (who have their main base in Sydney). I guess it makes no difference the anglican church in Australia is currently officially opposed to gay marriage (mainly to stop the Sydney anglicans from splitting off, and they have money). The Labor party in SA has managed to alienate the Anglican church here, so much so that most anglicans despise the state premier (Mike Rann). Not that it matters, since SA is one of the least religious states.

It is frustrating how conservative the government is compared to what Australians want right now, however in some areas Australians are still generally pretty backward as well, as a nation we are deserving of the criticism, because even theough in favour of a policy, we are able to get our government to implement it.

[Stark]

The split between modern, liberal people and more traditional, conservative people is very pronounced, at least in Queensland. It's like... one guy is the ABC, and the next guy is Channel Nine.

[Flash]

EDIT: they were talking about making divorce harder in an article I read recently; I'll see about getting a source for that.

I saw this as well. It was everyones favourite politician, the amazing Tony Abbott! Here is an article from the Australian about it.

In a nutshell, Abbott wants to change the divorce laws away from our current 'no-fault' system, and return to the pre-1975 system of having to show grounds for divorce.

In regards to the gay marriage issue, is anyone really surprised that K-Rudd is trotting out the old 'equal, but not really' bullshit? I read it in the Courier Mail on Sunday, and had to start laughing at this:

The ceremonies coincided with a debate at the ALP National Conference, which ended with the party reaffirming its opposition to gay marriages but voicing support for equal rights under the law.

Sure sounds equal, doesn't it?

The split between modern, liberal people and more traditional, conservative people is very pronounced, at least in Queensland. It's like... one guy is the ABC, and the next guy is Channel Nine.

This is especially visible where I live. People who hold even remotely liberal views are a distinct minority here in good old Bogan City.

[TheMuffinKing]

Why is Australia trying so hard to be the American South?

I suppose that with the droughts, biker gangs, and "local flavor" (bogans), certain Australians just figured they'd start flying the Confederate flag. Now they'll start reenacting the battle of Antietam and celebrating Lincoln's assassination!

[hongi]

In a nutshell, Abbott wants to change the divorce laws away from our current 'no-fault' system, and return to the pre-1975 system of having to show grounds for divorce.

Excuse the language, but that's fucking retarded. I knew I hated Abbott, but now he's firmly in the 'dumbass' bin.

I read something funny about this in my Uni paper. People were so desperate to get divorces that they were hired prostitutes and then got private investigators to snap photos of them in compromising positions.

[bobalot]

In a nutshell, Abbott wants to change the divorce laws away from our current 'no-fault' system, and return to the pre-1975 system of having to show grounds for divorce.

Excuse the language, but that's fucking retarded. I knew I hated Abbott, but now he's firmly in the 'dumbass' bin.

I read something funny about this in my Uni paper. People were so desperate to get divorces that they were hired prostitutes and then got private investigators to snap photos of them in compromising positions.

Tony Abbot has always been a gigantic tool. A hypocrite as well. But other the Murdoch Press (who seem to give him shitlaods of newspaper space every time he wants to spew his verbal diarrhoea), most people in Australia don't give a shit about him. He isn't called the 'Mad Monk' for nothing.