Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

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Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

Post by Dominus Atheos »

Obviously not, but she seems to think so:

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In a new posting on her Facebook account, former Gov. Sarah Palin (R-AK) made a dire statement about health care reform -- that it could result in an Obama-created "death panel" killing her infant son with Down Syndrome:
Sarah Palin wrote:The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care.
And she pointed Americans' attention to a recent speech by none other than Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN), warning of the dastardly involvement of Rahm Emanuel's brother, who is a doctor, in the health care debate:
Rep. Michele Bachmann highlighted the Orwellian thinking of the president's health care advisor, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of the White House chief of staff, in a floor speech to the House of Representatives. I commend her for being a voice for the most precious members of our society, our children and our seniors.
My god. I mean, I always knew that hardcore conservatives are a little divorced from reality, but actually worrying that the President and Congress are going to pass a bill that' going to include a "death panel" to decide who deserves to live and who should die is crazy even by their standards. If they actually believe this will happen, shouldn't they be trying to flee the country or something?

Edited to reword title to highlight how crazy she is
Last edited by Dominus Atheos on 2009-08-09 10:25pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Palin worried that Obama's "death panel" will kill her baby

Post by Patrick Degan »

Keep in mind that this is the woman who entertained the crowd with two minutes of utterly insane babble in the course of her resignation speech which was so brilliantly parodied by William Shatner on Conan O'Brien's show a couple of weeks ago. So it's not at all surprising to hear her spew conspiracy bullshit straight out of cloud cuckoo-land about the healthcare reform effort.
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

Post by Stark »

Pull your head out of the sand, Australia does this all the time. Nobody supports those unable to work, so they have to be killed.

Oh wait! :lol:
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

Post by J »

Stark wrote:Pull your head out of the sand, Australia does this all the time. Nobody supports those unable to work, so they have to be killed.
Why did you have to spill the secret of longer life expectancies in countries with socialized healthcare?
Thanks to you, everyone now knows that we run eugenics programs in our countries.
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

Post by Stark »

I only mention it because Ando works for these guys; he's a part of the glorious machinery of population optimisation. He can tell you - no money is spent on those unable to work or look after themselves. NOT IN AUSTRALIA!
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

Post by SirNitram »

Trig's lucky. His mother is going to have money to spare for her entire life, because otherwise, he would end up like every other Down's Syndrome child does when they get older: Homeless, out in the streets, and unable to survive.

To avoid a mythical death-panel, she wants to continue the ACTUAL death panel.. The ones that will ensure down's syndrome will not get covered because it's a serious and/or pre-existing condition.
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

Post by Superboy »

How effective would it be for the democrats to put together a prime time special where the Presidents explains his health care plan and debunks all of these lies? I seem to recall him doing something similar during his campaign with some success.
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

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Superboy wrote:How effective would it be for the democrats to put together a prime time special where the Presidents explains his health care plan and debunks all of these lies? I seem to recall him doing something similar during his campaign with some success.
Absolutely worthless.

The media wouldn't believe it, and would again complain there was 'no news' at the President's thing.

The GOP would say he's lying.

The Centrists would still slobber over the collective cocks of the industries opposing this.

The violent loonies would continue to escalate.
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

Post by Themightytom »

Superboy wrote:How effective would it be for the democrats to put together a prime time special where the Presidents explains his health care plan and debunks all of these lies? I seem to recall him doing something similar during his campaign with some success.

Also when they did that Obama accidently ended with "Fuck the Police" and thats how we got HERE.

During his attempted press conference, several right wing groups hosted "Webinars" during which the new healthcare reform initaitives would be "explained" by experts... and so a ton of people were watching raving lunatics on their ndialup instead of the President on TV.

For some reason however NH got the darkest "grade" in terms of approvaly for healthcare, out of all of the other states during a recent CNN poll, and I really don't think there is more than a vocal 30% that are actually opposed to health care. if its as bad as possible HERE I would say we are just looking at a very vocal minority which loses credit once bills start to pass. Everyone was flipping their shit over Cash For Clunkers but that definitely took off, same thing with the Stimulus pachage which the two largest borrowers have paid back. Palin is sidelining HERSELF with this crap.

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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

Post by ray245 »

SirNitram wrote:
Superboy wrote:How effective would it be for the democrats to put together a prime time special where the Presidents explains his health care plan and debunks all of these lies? I seem to recall him doing something similar during his campaign with some success.
Absolutely worthless.

The media wouldn't believe it, and would again complain there was 'no news' at the President's thing.

The GOP would say he's lying.

The Centrists would still slobber over the collective cocks of the industries opposing this.

The violent loonies would continue to escalate.
True, explaining logic to people who likes to be scaremongered is absolutely worthless. Too bad the democracts would never make use of scarmongering tactics against the republicans.
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Lets just say they actually showed the copy of his Cirtificate of live birth, and the fuckin assholes said that it wasn't proof that he was born in the USA...
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

Post by Vendetta »

Superboy wrote:How effective would it be for the democrats to put together a prime time special where the Presidents explains his health care plan and debunks all of these lies? I seem to recall him doing something similar during his campaign with some success.
Not at all. Truth, facts, and statistics have absolutely no purchase on the human mind.

What the President should have done was, before starting the assault, found as many stories of failure and shame in the current system, and played them 24/7. Because people only respond to stories, not statistics, and stories with horrible things happening in them, presented in as much lurid detail as possible have more impact, because "it could happen to me".

So, things like that third world healthcare fair in Virginia, get that on as many screens as possible, and get people too afraid of ending up like those people being treated in tents in the rain to fear dirty socialism.

Too late now though, the insurance companies and their pet cockvacuums got the fear offensive in first.
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

Post by Simon_Jester »

SirNitram wrote:
Superboy wrote:How effective would it be for the democrats to put together a prime time special where the Presidents explains his health care plan and debunks all of these lies? I seem to recall him doing something similar during his campaign with some success.
Absolutely worthless.
The media wouldn't believe it, and would again complain there was 'no news' at the President's thing.
The GOP would say he's lying.
The Centrists would still slobber over the collective cocks of the industries opposing this.
The violent loonies would continue to escalate.
I think it might do at least some good, if there were a reliable way of getting millions of people (including the "undecideds" who can't tell the lies from the reality) to watch it. Obama might very well be able to pull it off; it would probably be in his interests to resurrect the fireside chat rather than relying on the mainstream media to report his programs. Since said mainstream media has lost the desire to debunk outright lies somewhere along the way, they are not a trustworthy messenger. And for a president, it's better to have some channel to the outside world that you can reliably clear of bullshit than no channel.
Vendetta wrote:Not at all. Truth, facts, and statistics have absolutely no purchase on the human mind...
What the President should have done was, before starting the assault, found as many stories of failure and shame in the current system, and played them 24/7...
Too late now though, the insurance companies and their pet cockvacuums got the fear offensive in first.
I think there's still time for a counterattack, because I think that facts do have at least some purchase. The problem is something a little different: facts have no purchase independent of a frame of reference to interpret them in; you have to know what a fact means before it has any value.

Obama's failure (at least so far) is that he hasn't used his public 'star power' to build up context for what he's trying to do. The country as a whole agrees that the health care system leaves a lot to be desired, even among the idiots. The problem is that Obama isn't adequately presenting just how badly the system is failing, how useless the quarter-measured proposed by the industry shills are, and how many lies are being told about his own plan. Because of that, simply publishing numbers doesn't do him any good; numbers in isolation are meaningless.

And that's what he could at least hope for from an attempt to address the public directly. Yes, there will be idiots who ignore him or assume he must be lying. So what? It's not as if they didn't already think so. As always, the goal of any effort to publicize the truth is to rattle the people on the edge of the pro-lie camp, and to persuade some of the people caught between the two camps because they aren't sure what framework to apply to the problem. That's something intelligently presented facts (and intelligent presentation does include stories, as you suggest) is good for.
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

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Simon_Jester wrote:I think there's still time for a counterattack, because I think that facts do have at least some purchase. The problem is something a little different: facts have no purchase independent of a frame of reference to interpret them in; you have to know what a fact means before it has any value.
Some, but not in the face of stories. In fact, there's been recent work that shows that the use of fictionalisations of events in history classes like U-571 tends to damage understanding because people remember the story version and forget the factual version. People respond to stories, not statistics, and not facts outside of the context of stories.

There's also other studies which show that people tend not to remember a disconfirming correction after they have already been told something. So now the cockvacuum fear offensive has started, it's going to be that much more difficult to fight against it.
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

Post by Samuel »

Simon, the reason people are so pessimistic is that liberals have been trying for UHC in the USA since Truman. Seriously- it got killed on the grounds it was "socialized health care".
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

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Samuel wrote:Simon, the reason people are so pessimistic is that liberals have been trying for UHC in the USA since Truman. Seriously- it got killed on the grounds it was "socialized health care".
That alone probably wouldn't have been enough to kill it back in Truman's day - there was also the "race" factor (Southern democratic congressmen didn't want to vote for anything that might result in blacks sharing the same hospitals as whites).
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

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Vendetta wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:I think there's still time for a counterattack, because I think that facts do have at least some purchase. The problem is something a little different: facts have no purchase independent of a frame of reference to interpret them in; you have to know what a fact means before it has any value.
Some, but not in the face of stories. In fact, there's been recent work that shows that the use of fictionalisations of events in history classes like U-571 tends to damage understanding because people remember the story version and forget the factual version. People respond to stories, not statistics, and not facts outside of the context of stories.

There's also other studies which show that people tend not to remember a disconfirming correction after they have already been told something. So now the cockvacuum fear offensive has started, it's going to be that much more difficult to fight against it.
If only shows like House or ER could actually show the US general public just how screwed up their healthcare system is. Film and television depiction of hospitals always portray them as a kind and efficient organisation that is willingly to go beyond the required duty to help patients out. If only people realise this isn't the case when they are going to a hospital in the US.
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

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ray245 wrote:If only shows like House or ER could actually show the US general public just how screwed up their healthcare system is. Film and television depiction of hospitals always portray them as a kind and efficient organisation that is willingly to go beyond the required duty to help patients out. If only people realise this isn't the case when they are going to a hospital in the US.
It's some of the best propaganda the health-extortion industry can get. Almost as if it were bought and paid for. I wonder....
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

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Patrick Degan wrote:
ray245 wrote:If only shows like House or ER could actually show the US general public just how screwed up their healthcare system is. Film and television depiction of hospitals always portray them as a kind and efficient organisation that is willingly to go beyond the required duty to help patients out. If only people realise this isn't the case when they are going to a hospital in the US.
It's some of the best propaganda the health-extortion industry can get. Almost as if it were bought and paid for. I wonder....
It is really stupid for people to vote on political issues based on what they see on television drama, then again, most people never understood that what you see in drama is essentially an idealised version of the world.

If so many people can become stupid enough to think that what they see in romance movies tells you how romance in real life is like, they can easily buy into how TV portrays their healthcare system to be like. After all, their only exposure to how the healthcare industry is what they see in television drama.
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

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We're not going to kill people just because they're weak and unproductive, but also to make food.

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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

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SirNitram wrote:Trig's lucky. His mother is going to have money to spare for her entire life, because otherwise, he would end up like every other Down's Syndrome child does when they get older: Homeless, out in the streets, and unable to survive.

To avoid a mythical death-panel, she wants to continue the ACTUAL death panel.. The ones that will ensure down's syndrome will not get covered because it's a serious and/or pre-existing condition.
He should exercise the benefits of Freedom and Personal Responsibility that our veterans fought and died for, and provide for himself if he's so scared of the big, bad world.


And, seriously, "Trig"? :o
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

Post by Simon_Jester »

Vendetta wrote:Some, but not in the face of stories. In fact, there's been recent work that shows that the use of fictionalisations of events in history classes like U-571 tends to damage understanding because people remember the story version and forget the factual version. People respond to stories, not statistics, and not facts outside of the context of stories.

There's also other studies which show that people tend not to remember a disconfirming correction after they have already been told something. So now the cockvacuum fear offensive has started, it's going to be that much more difficult to fight against it.
Yes, but that doesn't mean that fighting it has zero effect.

You're not going to convince the guy who hasn't watched anything not vetted by FOX News and who thinks that Sarah Palin is the greatest thing since sliced bread that Obama is in fact a basically decent guy and that he's got a reasonably good health care plan, or at least one that's better than the crap the insurance agency shills would like to get away with.

But the guy who's heard a few stories on each side and is still confused about what the facts are and about what framework of stories to fit them into... he's a potential convert. Giving up on him in disgust because he's 'too stupid' to understand the facts (a reaction I see around here a lot) just guarantees that he'll wind up getting roped into the pro-lie camp, because they're the only ones who are actually trying to talk to him.

That's the real threat over the next few years, I think: that the American left will stop trying to talk to the American center because it looks at the fools and madmen on the far American right and thinks everyone not already in their camp is like that. A movement that stops trying to convince anyone who isn't already a member is doomed.

Stories can override facts in the mind very easily, but they can also support and reinforce facts when someone takes the trouble to present the right stories. That's what's been missing from the health care debate, I think: a concerted effort to present the stories that make up the mental framework of people on the reformist side.
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Samuel wrote:Simon, the reason people are so pessimistic is that liberals have been trying for UHC in the USA since Truman. Seriously- it got killed on the grounds it was "socialized health care".
I know, and at this point I'll settle for some decent reform* But the system we have now is killing us, and it's going to kill us faster if we don't do something soon. I think there's room for at least some progress, and it doesn't help to present it as "accept single-payer NOW or be cast into the outer darkness to weep and gnash your teeth!"

*As opposed to the indecent reform proposals I've heard from sources like Sen. Baucus.
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

Post by Pick »

Wouldn't killing a Down's Syndrome person for eugenics purposes be pointless? Aren't they sterile? (Or is that "usually sterile"?)
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

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Samuel wrote:Simon, the reason people are so pessimistic is that liberals have been trying for UHC in the USA since Truman. Seriously- it got killed on the grounds it was "socialized health care".
Actually, it goes all the way back to Teddy Roosevelt:
Business Week, 2006 wrote:HARBINGER OF CHANGE. The U.S. has flirted with some kind of national health policy six times over the past 100 years, only to see the reform impulse wither each time. For instance, a key plank in Theodore Roosevelt's losing Presidential campaign of 1912 was national health insurance. President Harry Truman tried again after World War II, but he was thwarted by a potent combination of political forces, including the vehement opposition of the American Medical Assn., which was determined to defend doctors' incomes against the threat of "socialized" medicine.

The Clinton Administration's health-care initiative of 1993 collapsed a year later, after conservatives, physicians, and insurance companies mounted a well-orchestrated attack. "Major changes in health policy, like major changes in any area, are political acts, undertaken for political purposes," Victor Fuchs, the dean of health economists, wrote in his 1993 book, The Future of Health Policy.
That's right, Bush talked up health care reform in his second term. By the way, the article ignores Lyndon Johnson's and Richard Nixon's equally unsuccessful attempts.

It looks like we Americans have a 100-some-odd year history of NOT wanting anyone but ourselves and our families making our choices about our health and that of our families. That's why this latest round of so-called reform is drawing such heated opposition. We've been here before, and we're not changing our minds.

To the topic: I did a search of the Acrobat file of HR3200, and it does not specifically address congenital defects or Down's syndrome; further, the much-ballyhooed "end of life" provisions are sufficiently vague that you can attach any interpretation to them that you want. Probably by design. However, the bill itself contains several direct Constitutional violations, including real-time access to your bank account if you're on the plan!! I'm guessing the wiggle on this is that, hey, you "volunteered" for coverage, therefore you "volunteered" for this total invasion of privacy. If you want to read the whole 1000+ page monster, click here. I'm NOT going to pull a Dominus Atheos and post the whole thing! :wink:

Point of fact: there is no provision in the Constitution, the foundation of America's social contract, that allows Congress to control 1/7 of our economy. They know this. We know this. That's why "universal" health care hasn't flown in the US all the times it's been attempted.

There is one proper, legal, Constitutional way to go about this, and that's by introducing and having passed by a 2/3 majority, an amendment to the Constitution. Oddly enough, Democrat Jesse Jackson Jr., yes that Jesse Jackson's son, has proposed the only Constitutional method of implementing national health care in the U.S. Introduced in March 2009. Funny that it's not in the papers.
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Re: Obama's death panel to kill Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby

Post by erik_t »

Count Chocula wrote: It looks like we Americans have a 100-some-odd year history of NOT wanting anyone but ourselves and our families making our choices about our health and that of our families. That's why this latest round of so-called reform is drawing such heated opposition. We've been here before, and we're not changing our minds.
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Can't we VI this stupid lying evasive little fuck yet?
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