8 killed in crash between Dodge Neon and GMC pickup

[Darth Wong]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/10/califo ... index.html

Death toll up to 8 in California police chase

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- The death toll climbed to eight in a crash tied to a police pursuit in central California, authorities said Sunday.

An 8-year-old injured in Saturday's crash died at a hospital that night, said John Maxfield of the California Highway Patrol.

The collision occurred when police tried to stop a Dodge Neon over a traffic infraction in Dinuba, said CHP officer Felipe Martinez. Dinuba is about 30 miles southeast of Fresno.

The Neon fled and ran a stop sign before colliding with a GMC Sierra pickup, Martinez said.

Four of the five children in the pickup -- ages 1, 3, 4 and 7 -- were ejected and died at the scene, Martinez said. Three adults in the Neon also were killed.

The fifth child, the 8-year-old, was airlifted to a hospital before dying, Maxfield said.

Two more adults were taken to hospitals. Their conditions were not available Sunday. The collision was under investigation.

How the fuck do you jam all of those people into a Dodge Neon and a GMC pickup truck? Was the pickup truck being driven by some idiot who just piled 5 kids into the front seat? Did they draw straws to see who would wear the passenger-side seatbelt? Who were the two adults who survived? The two drivers?

[Superboy]

Some models of the Sierra pickup can actually fit 4 people comfortably, possibly 5 (I'm not sure if there are two or three seatbelts in the back seat.) Despite that, it had to have been at least one too many people to safely and legally be passengers.

I'm assuming it was 4 people in the Neon (1 survivor, 3 dead), and 6 in the Sierra.

[Raxmei]

If it was a king cab pickup there'd be a back row of seats. Some vehicles are equipped with seats for three people in front. It is imaginable that the vehicle was built in such a way that that quantity of passengers could all be given seats. However judging by the mass ejection of passengers somebody was probably doing something wrong, and it is certainly possible that overloading was part of it. Since only the oldest wasn't ejected I'd guess that there weren't any car seats. Put the one and two year olds on the laps of the seven and eight year olds and you're down to three passenger seats. That isn't safe, of course, and it wouldn't help that the kids probably weren't wearing seat belts.

[Oskuro]

How the fuck do you jam all of those people into a Dodge Neon and a GMC pickup truck? Was the pickup truck being driven by some idiot who just piled 5 kids into the front seat? Did they draw straws to see who would wear the passenger-side seatbelt? Who were the two adults who survived? The two drivers?

It was probably driven by an idiot who dumped all the kids in the back seat. I guess a lateral impact with the rear windows open might account for 4 of the kids being ejected.

[Superboy]

I had forgotten about child seats, which should have prevented any ejection if they had been used. I can't imagine how reckless the driver must have been to put a 1 year old in a car without a proper child seat.

[Bounty]

It is imaginable that the vehicle was built in such a way that that quantity of passengers could all be given seats.

According to the GM site the Sierra can be ordered with a 40/20/40 split front and rear bench, so it's not impossible to seat 6 people securely and legally in one. That assumes it was carrying the five children + one adult driver who survived, and that the second adult survivor is from the Neon.

But since seatbelt-wearing passenger generally don't do the last leg of their voyage airborne and through the windshield... yeah.

I guess a lateral impact with the rear windows open might account for 4 of the kids being ejected.

What, one by one through the window? More likely they were just launched through the windshield.

EDIT: nope, looks like I give the pickup guy too much credit:

The Neon failed to stop at the intersection of Avenue 424 and Road 120, near Orosi High School, and collided with the GMC Sierra pickup carrying seven members of an Orange Cove family.

[Broomstick]

How the fuck do you jam all of those people into a Dodge Neon and a GMC pickup truck? Was the pickup truck being driven by some idiot who just piled 5 kids into the front seat? Did they draw straws to see who would wear the passenger-side seatbelt?

My current employer has a GMC extended-cab pickup truck that comfortably and legally seats five - two in front and three in the back bench seat. He uses it almost exclusively for moving his sailboat and family to and from the Marina (him and his wife in front, the three kids buckled in bank), and a backup truck when his work van isn't working.

Gets crap gas mileage, but it can haul a LOT of weight and since that's what he bought it to do, it works out. God help any Neon that ever tangles with it, though - that truck is a tank.

That said - seven people in a pickup is not OK with any model I'm familiar with, and people who ride without seatbelts are idiots.

[Solauren]

While I've seen vans and trucks that can seat 7+ (Comfortably and legally), they were not GMC Sierra's.

And do you know what the real tragedy of all this is? If the cops had spotted the GMC truck earlier, and pulled them over for the overcrowding, the driver would have bitched about their civil rights.

[dragon]

Maybe they were ridding in the truck bed. I know thats a common sight in Montana as we used to ride to ride in the back all the time.

[SCRawl]

The 1, 3, and 4-year-olds should definitely have been in some kind of child seat (it's the law here). The 7-year-old should probably have been in a booster seat, and the eight-year-old should have been in the back seat, restrained by a seat belt. Of course, you can't fit all of these people and their (absolutely necessary) hardware into one of those vehicles, which is why this happened.

[tim31]

I don't know whether or not that's worse than the various cases I've heard of in which people attach child seats onto the back of motorcycles by various means.

[RedImperator]

"Ejected instantly" sounds a lot like the kids were riding in the bed. As for the Neon, a Neon will semi-comfortably seat 4 (there isn't a ton of legroom in the back, but an adult can fit) and uncomfortably seat five. It'll also get demolished in any kind of high speed collision with a Sierra.

[Darth Wong]

"Ejected instantly" sounds a lot like the kids were riding in the bed. As for the Neon, a Neon will semi-comfortably seat 4 (there isn't a ton of legroom in the back, but an adult can fit) and uncomfortably seat five. It'll also get demolished in any kind of high speed collision with a Sierra.

Ah yes, I forgot that certain types of people will just carry kids around in the bed of a pickup truck. I honestly don't know how some people can be so nonchalant about their kids' safety.

[Knife]

"Ejected instantly" sounds a lot like the kids were riding in the bed. As for the Neon, a Neon will semi-comfortably seat 4 (there isn't a ton of legroom in the back, but an adult can fit) and uncomfortably seat five. It'll also get demolished in any kind of high speed collision with a Sierra.

I don't know. 1,3, 4 and 7 years old though? I have a hard time seeing even a hick putting a 1,3 and 4 year old in the bed of a truck, I would be surprised if it did indeed end up that way.

[Darth Wong]

"Ejected instantly" sounds a lot like the kids were riding in the bed. As for the Neon, a Neon will semi-comfortably seat 4 (there isn't a ton of legroom in the back, but an adult can fit) and uncomfortably seat five. It'll also get demolished in any kind of high speed collision with a Sierra.

I don't know. 1,3, 4 and 7 years old though? I have a hard time seeing even a hick putting a 1,3 and 4 year old in the bed of a truck, I would be surprised if it did indeed end up that way.

If the 1 year old wasn't in a child seat, it's a foregone conclusion that the driver was incredibly negligent. He probably had one of the older kids holding the baby.

[Solauren]

"Ejected instantly" sounds a lot like the kids were riding in the bed. As for the Neon, a Neon will semi-comfortably seat 4 (there isn't a ton of legroom in the back, but an adult can fit) and uncomfortably seat five. It'll also get demolished in any kind of high speed collision with a Sierra.

Ah yes, I forgot that certain types of people will just carry kids around in the bed of a pickup truck. I honestly don't know how some people can be so nonchalant about their kids' safety.

It's the "I'm here, what can possibly go wrong for my kids?" syndrome.

It's the mentality that leads people to get a 120lb+ dog, not properly train it, then wonder why the dog ended up mauling a kid.
(My dog is 25 lbs, and I'm still cautious around small kids with him, and he thinks he's everyone's favourite stuffed animal)

[TrailerParkJawa]

"Ejected instantly" sounds a lot like the kids were riding in the bed. As for the Neon, a Neon will semi-comfortably seat 4 (there isn't a ton of legroom in the back, but an adult can fit) and uncomfortably seat five. It'll also get demolished in any kind of high speed collision with a Sierra.

I don't know. 1,3, 4 and 7 years old though? I have a hard time seeing even a hick putting a 1,3 and 4 year old in the bed of a truck, I would be surprised if it did indeed end up that way.

If the 1 year old wasn't in a child seat, it's a foregone conclusion that the driver was incredibly negligent. He probably had one of the older kids holding the baby.

It is seriously illegal in California for anyone to be riding in the bed of a pickup. However, it wouldn't surprise me given that this accident probably occurred in a farming area. I'm betting there was an adult in the bed with the little ones.

[Kodiak]

It is seriously illegal in California for anyone to be riding in the bed of a pickup. However, it wouldn't surprise me given that this accident probably occurred in a farming area. I'm betting there was an adult in the bed with the little ones.

Yeah, being in Dinuba near Orosi, that's a HUGE farming area. I see farm-types hauling loads of people around in the back of their trucks all the time; that's just how they do it and CHP just looks the other way.

[ray245]

It is seriously illegal in California for anyone to be riding in the bed of a pickup. However, it wouldn't surprise me given that this accident probably occurred in a farming area. I'm betting there was an adult in the bed with the little ones.

Yeah, being in Dinuba near Orosi, that's a HUGE farming area. I see farm-types hauling loads of people around in the back of their trucks all the time; that's just how they do it and CHP just looks the other way.

Cultural norm is something that would be ignored by local government officials most of the time. The only real alternative to discourage this kind of behaviour are designing and introducing trucks that is capable of carrying large amount of people in a safe and reliable manner.

People will attempt to squeeze as many people into a vehicle as possible if they can get away with it, and if it seems too impractical for the driver to drive on the same route twice just to ferry all of his family and friends to a certain location.

[Darth Wong]

Cultural norm is something that would be ignored by local government officials most of the time. The only real alternative to discourage this kind of behaviour is introducing trucks that is designed to carry people in a safe and reliable manner.

Wake up, pal. They already have trucks that are designed to carry people in a safe and reliable manner. That doesn't stop people from misusing them.

People will attempt to squeeze as many people into a vehicle as possible if they can get away with it, and if it seems too impractical for the driver to drive on the same path twice.

The only way to stop this is law enforcement. You can't design a truck that is impossible to misuse.

[Cairber]

This is one that you tuck in the back of your mind for when older generations say "we didn't even use carseats and we are ok!" yeah...because the ones who weren't OK are not here to tell us about it

[TithonusSyndrome]

Cultural norm is something that would be ignored by local government officials most of the time. The only real alternative to discourage this kind of behaviour is introducing trucks that is designed to carry people in a safe and reliable manner.

Wake up, pal. They already have trucks that are designed to carry people in a safe and reliable manner. That doesn't stop people from misusing them.

There's still more that could be done to reduce likelihood of fatal accidents, like making governers mandatory in all vehicles. Good luck passing legislation on such a nightmare, of course.

[TrailerParkJawa]

This is one that you tuck in the back of your mind for when older generations say "we didn't even use carseats and we are ok!" yeah...because the ones who weren't OK are not here to tell us about it

I don't think too many older generations are saying this. I'd bet a dollar the adults in this accident were younger. I think its more a cultural event in this case. Either the people are rural or they are immigrants where riding in pickups is still normal.

[folti78]

This is one that you tuck in the back of your mind for when older generations say "we didn't even use carseats and we are ok!" yeah...because the ones who weren't OK are not here to tell us about it

And the older generations usually forget to notice the little fact, that back in the 'olden days' neither the vehicles nor the roads allowed speeds like today. <pull things out of ass>Transporting people on the bed of your pickup/flatbed truck/4ton agricultural trailer pulled by a tractor is more or less safe when you can't go faster than say 20-30km/h and the driver are very well aware of this</pull things out of ass>, but it's reckless endangerment above that.
Add to some troglodite views to this mix like 'durr these fancy new cars don't have enough hard metal* in them to survive a crash properly', because back when most cars and road only allowed 80km/h** max speeds they were deemed adequate. Never mind that those good old cars are simply wheeled death traps when they are driven over their designed travelling speeds. Modern car safety standards? fuggedaboudit

* read: the chassis didn't built like a tank out of metal beams welded together, which could impale anything before/behind them.
** local speed limit for roads outside inhabited areas before the late 90s. Now raised to 90km/h.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Add to some troglodite views to this mix like 'durr these fancy new cars don't have enough hard metal* in them to survive a crash properly', because back when most cars and road only allowed 80km/h** max speeds they were deemed adequate. Never mind that those good old cars are simply wheeled death traps when they are driven over their designed travelling speeds. Modern car safety standards? fuggedaboudit :banghead:

They were death-traps on wheels at their designed traveling speeds too, given their relatively crude suspension and braking setups, laughable bumpers, and a design which would transmit essentially all the crash forces into the vehicle's occupants. They were pretty much unsafe at any speed.