Democrats have a senior citizen problem

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ray245
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Democrats have a senior citizen problem

Post by ray245 »

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Democrats have a senior citizen problem.

Frustrated older Americans are packing the town halls on health care. They are incredibly passionate about their Medicare benefits. Polls show senior citizens largely disapprove of health care reform ideas so far.

And of course, they vote — in larger numbers than any other demographic.

But so far, Democrats have focused much of their health care sales pitch on middle-class Americans and the uninsured — a slight that has been noticed by senior citizens, who hold great influence with members of Congress.

At his Tuesday town hall event in New Hampshire, President Barack Obama made a point to reach out to seniors, noting the low support in polls for his health care proposals.

“We are not talking about cutting Medicare benefits,” Obama said, trying to assuage the audience.

But Obama is talking about finding hundreds of billions in savings from Medicare — cuts supporters say will trim fat from the program — including slashing $156 billion in subsidies to Medicare Advantage, a privately administered Medicare program.

“Seniors are one of the most attentive and engaged constituencies, especially on health care issues, and we’ve seen that in the Medicare Advantage programs,” said Robert Zirkelbach, a spokesman for America’s Health Insurance Plans.

A July 31 Gallup Poll found that just 20 percent of Americans aged 65 and older believe health care reform would improve their own situation, noticeably lower than the 27 percent of 18- to 49-year olds and 26 percent of 50-to-64-year-olds who say the same.

The senior citizen problem could pose a serious problem for the 2010 election cycle.

Older Americans turn out in much higher numbers than other age groups during midterm elections. In 2006, the 55-and-older age group still had the highest voting rate of any age group, at 63 percent, even though younger voters turned out in record numbers for a midterm, according to census data. Half of all votes cast in the 2006 midterms were from voters age 50 or older, according to AARP. And one out of four were AARP members.

But voting statistics tell only part of the story. Look at the faces at these chaotic congressional town hall events across the country. They are the faces of older Americans who paid into Medicare most of their working lives and are now enjoying the health care benefits they believe they’ve earned for their senior years.

They exhibit a vocal distrust of the government taking a larger role in health care — despite the fact that the very popular Medicare program is run by the government.

Obama’s problem with senior citizens isn’t new. Polls showed that John McCain bested Obama among seniors, even though Obama made gains across almost every other demographic.

Some experts say the real problem is that Democrats haven’t done enough to address seniors’ concerns to date, allowing the perception to grow that seniors will lose under reform.

Proponents haven’t talked enough about how health reform will benefit seniors, said Jeff Blum of USAction, a progressive grass-roots organization pushing health reform.

“We were vulnerable, and that was a mistake on the part of us promoting health reform,” Blum said. “The opposition found an opportunity and ran with it.”

Critics say the proposed $380 billion Medicare cuts in the House bill — including cuts to the privately administered Medicare Advantage program — will lead to long waits for care, doctors dropping patients and doctors deciding if their older patients “are worth the cost,” as one TV and Web ad from the 60 Plus Association warned.

“Why would you want to cannibalize Medicare in order to create a new plan? Why wouldn’t we fix Medicare first? I think those are the concerns that are being raised,” Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, said during a conference call Tuesday.

The proposed cuts to Medicare Advantage are real, but Democrats are also fighting full-blown myths that have gained traction, attacks claiming that reform would create government "death panels" authorizing euthanasia.

The rhetoric is designed to rattle seniors already nervous about health care because they pay a higher percentage of their income for health care than younger Americans and face rising costs on fixed incomes, said Jim Dau, a spokesman for AARP.

“Some are simply trying to derail health care reform by targeting seniors, by scaring them, making them, frankly, more dubious, more nervous,” said Dau.

On Tuesday, Obama tried to debunk some of the myths himself.

He dismissed rhetoric about “death panels” that would “pull the plug on grandma because we've decided that … it’s too expensive to let her live anymore.”

“I am not in favor of that,” Obama said, explaining that the actual bill language would merely greenlight Medicare to reimburse doctors for counseling patients who choose to receive counseling on end-of-life options, like hospice care. Obama even mentioned that this type of provision is backed by Republican Sen. Johnny Isakson of Georgia.

As for Medicare cuts, Obama repeatedly assured seniors that their benefits are not on the line. The bills under consideration are intended to help more seniors on Medicare afford drugs and provide some people who are not yet Medicare eligible with subsidies to pay for private insurance. The bill also eliminates co-pays for preventative care like cancer screenings and makes generic drugs more affordable, supporters say.

Obama explained that the proposed cuts aim to make Medicare more efficient, such as eliminating the $156 billion given to private companies for Medicare Advantage plans, which the president called a “giveaway.”

“Seniors who are listening here, this does not affect your benefits,” Obama said of the proposed cuts. “This is not money going to you to pay for your benefits; this is money that is subsidizing folks who don't need it.”

Labor unions are also trying to sell seniors on the plans. Dennis Rivera, the health care point man for the Service Employees International Union on health care, said the union is taking its message directly to seniors through conference calls and house visits because town halls have become so easy to disrupt.

“If we do not reorganize the health care system, we’re going to run out of money and all the programs are going to collapse and we are going to have dramatic problems down the road,” Rivera said.

It’s a powerful message, if Democrats and their allies can get it to stick.

“The key to getting seniors on board is convincing them that steps that will reduce health care costs in health reform will also ensure the solvency of Medicare in the long run. That’s what flips them from anxious to supportive,” said Drew Altman, president and CEO of the Kaiser Family Foundation.

But the legislation’s critics continue their own campaign for seniors’ hearts and minds.

America’s Health Insurance Plans, a trade group for insurers, contends that slashing $156 billion from private Medicare Advantage plans would have a significant impact on seniors.

“Seniors have been told that their coverage is not going to change and if they like their coverage, they can keep it,” Zirkelbach said. “The fact of the matter is that if these cuts to Medicare Advantage go through, seniors are going to face increased premiums, reduced benefits and, in some parts of the country, they’re going to lose access to their Medicare Advantage plan all together.”
While the democracts could lose some votes in regards to the older voters, the majority of those people are going to vote for republicans anyway.

Although it is extremely weird to see how this group of people have this mentality that the right to medicare is something that they have earned instead of something that is handed to them without regards to how successful they are when they are young.

It seems at every single welfare program that already exist in the US as a whole is viewed by many conservative as something as they have earned and should deny this kind of benefits to people who have yet to earned it. I'm really appalled by the level of selfishness displayed.
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

Post by Vendetta »

So, socialised healthcare is being sabotaged by people who already have completely socialised healthcare.

Hell, this should be an advert for government provision: "Look how good we are at doing this, Medicare must be brilliant if these people are so attached to it"
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

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Vendetta wrote:So, socialised healthcare is being sabotaged by people who already have completely socialised healthcare.

Hell, this should be an advert for government provision: "Look how good we are at doing this, Medicare must be brilliant if these people are so attached to it"
Thats pretty much the healthcare "Debate" in a nutshell, and that kind of irrational argument is what makes it painfully clear that America is getting senile. The same people who lead us through the better halff of the 20th century are struggling to stay relevant out of fear and confusion which makes them really pliable.

Its infuriatingly shortsighted, because while they get the "rush" of being engaged and involved, but in ttheir struggle to be heard, and remain relevant, people tend to fforget that they have to have something positive to contribute. They are creating long term negative repercussions for our country and are oblivious to this.

Its our own fault though, younger voters haven't been active or assertive enough until this point, and what should have been a gradual progression of power and ideas from one generation to the next is a straight up clash at this point.

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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

Post by SirNitram »

There's two types of this. People who are so indoctorined into 'GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS BAD' that they can't grasp Medicare is government run. These people have been vocal, and one even is a conservative commentator on TV.

Then there's the much smaller 'I got mine, fuck you' group.
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

Post by Axis Kast »

I predict the opposite.

Particularly because of the anticipated hard times still ahead, the increasingly large number of senior citizens in this country is going to be more likely to support guaranteed health care, not less.

Obama's election marks a watershed point in the American internalization of so-called "European values." We are beginning to wrestle with the question of whether there should be a guaranteed quality of life in this country - a limit that no individual shall be permitted to fall below. There is a presumption of social responsibility foisted on the wealthy, whom it is said "owe society" for their position. Seniors who are facing an economic crunch and the collapse of the Social Security system will be forced by circumstance to become strong advocates of the programs that President Obama supports.
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

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Whatever the case may be, the propaganda assault has ramped up tenfold. Just this afternoon, I saw a scaremongering TV ad which combined "$500bn slashing of YOUR MEDICARE BENEFITS" with the "Kill Granny" implication slipped partway in and bookended by pronouncements that "This generation sacrificed so much for us, they shouldn't be asked to sacrifice again", so call your congressman.

This, BTW, was in a TV ad in Alabama.
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

Post by ArmorPierce »

I've been seeing similar commercials in New Jersey, so it's not limited to the south.
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

Post by LMSx »

Cuts to Medicare Advantage sound like a great, great idea. From what I've heard it basically helps as much as Medicare, but is more expensive because it finds a way to cram private companies in there for a nice profit.

I sure am glad though that we negotiated from a less liberal starting point, otherwise Obama and his plan would have been unfairly demonized. :D
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

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Patrick Degan wrote:Whatever the case may be, the propaganda assault has ramped up tenfold. Just this afternoon, I saw a scaremongering TV ad which combined "$500bn slashing of YOUR MEDICARE BENEFITS" with the "Kill Granny" implication slipped partway in and bookended by pronouncements that "This generation sacrificed so much for us, they shouldn't be asked to sacrifice again", so call your congressman.

This, BTW, was in a TV ad in Alabama.

The same commercial runs up here in Washington. I couldn't believe it.
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

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TheMuffinKing wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:Whatever the case may be, the propaganda assault has ramped up tenfold. Just this afternoon, I saw a scaremongering TV ad which combined "$500bn slashing of YOUR MEDICARE BENEFITS" with the "Kill Granny" implication slipped partway in and bookended by pronouncements that "This generation sacrificed so much for us, they shouldn't be asked to sacrifice again", so call your congressman.

This, BTW, was in a TV ad in Alabama.

The same commercial runs up here in Washington. I couldn't believe it.
I think I seen the same one here in western PA. It didn't happen to be by a group called over60.org by any chance?
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

Post by Patrick Degan »

It's a pity the liberal side don't seem to have the same talent for propaganda. I could easily see a commercial featuring the widowed Louise, of the "Harry and Louise" propaganda barrage which helped con Americans into rejecting healthcare reform 15 years ago, sitting with a friend in bankruptcy court talking about how the late Harry's medical bills wiped out their savings and their retirement nest egg after he couldn't work anymore because of his condition, especially after the insurance company dropped him, and now she's going to lose her house as well. Spot ends with the tagline: "If you don't want to suffer the same fate as Harry and Louise, call your congressman today and tell him to Just Say No to the healthcare extortion industry".

It would be so fucking easy to do, and the propaganda piece would have the added virtue of actually being true to reality.
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

But america's intellegent citizens don't have the deep pockets of the insurance agencies.
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

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The Yosemite Bear wrote:But america's intellegent citizens don't have the deep pockets of the insurance agencies.
Oh, I imagine such a thing could be rather cheaply put together by any reasonably competent amateur film production unit and put out on YouTube, bypassing the networks altogether.
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

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Axis Kast wrote:Obama's election marks a watershed point in the American internalization of so-called "European values." We are beginning to wrestle with the question of whether there should be a guaranteed quality of life in this country - a limit that no individual shall be permitted to fall below. There is a presumption of social responsibility foisted on the wealthy, whom it is said "owe society" for their position. Seniors who are facing an economic crunch and the collapse of the Social Security system will be forced by circumstance to become strong advocates of the programs that President Obama supports.
The problem is that taking the opposite tack isn't working very well for us. It turns out that giving a relatively small number of powerful people lots of freedom of action in the economic and political spheres with little or no oversight doesn't produce good outcomes for the civilization that does it.

Who'da thunk it?
Patrick Degan wrote:It's a pity the liberal side don't seem to have the same talent for propaganda. I could easily see a commercial featuring the widowed Louise, of the "Harry and Louise" propaganda barrage which helped con Americans into rejecting healthcare reform 15 years ago, sitting with a friend in bankruptcy court talking about how the late Harry's medical bills wiped out their savings and their retirement nest egg after he couldn't work anymore because of his condition, especially after the insurance company dropped him, and now she's going to lose her house as well. Spot ends with the tagline: "If you don't want to suffer the same fate as Harry and Louise, call your congressman today and tell him to Just Say No to the healthcare extortion industry".

It would be so fucking easy to do, and the propaganda piece would have the added virtue of actually being true to reality.
Ooh. That is good. My metaphorical hat is off to you, Patrick.
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

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You know, does it strike anyone else that the Democrats have really been caught off guard by the sheer rampaging insanity unleashed against them in this situation? I think they expected a big debate, but I really think the illogical hate that is being stoked up as hot as possible has really caught Obama flat footed here.

He is up against something of a mob now, with the Republicans and the Health Insurance industry doing everything they can to get the mob screaming and foaming at the mouth, as far as I can see. At a guess, I would say their idea is that they can 'discredit' Health Care now, with Obama, the most popular 'left' President in a long time championing it, they'll be safe for another decade or so...and so far it looks like they are succeeding.
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

Post by Duckie »

The democrats already apparantly used the Harry and Louise commercial, except they cocked it up and made it about hope and bipartisanship to help the poor rather than hammering home inadequacies of the status quo like the above idea has.
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

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Patrick's idea is still doable, though, I think. Though you might need different actors not immediately recognizable as Harry and Louise.
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Patrick Degan wrote:
The Yosemite Bear wrote:But america's intellegent citizens don't have the deep pockets of the insurance agencies.
Oh, I imagine such a thing could be rather cheaply put together by any reasonably competent amateur film production unit and put out on YouTube, bypassing the networks altogether.

but then it still wouldn't reach most of the target audiance.
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

Post by Gigaliel »

The Yosemite Bear wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:
The Yosemite Bear wrote:But america's intellegent citizens don't have the deep pockets of the insurance agencies.
Oh, I imagine such a thing could be rather cheaply put together by any reasonably competent amateur film production unit and put out on YouTube, bypassing the networks altogether.

but then it still wouldn't reach most of the target audience.
I'd think the second stage of this plan would be that it'd be aired by the networks after it got X hits on YouTube. Presumably MSNBC on Maddow or one of the other liberal/sane editorial shows would be the first. From there it would spread in a viral manner.

I'm surprised it hasn't been done, to be honest. This sort of "offensive" ad seems right up MoveOn.org's alley.
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Re: Democrats have a senior citizen problem

Post by Rye »

I would go out with a camcorder and film an anecdote a day about people fucked over by America's healthcare and put them on the web. Put the right on the "stats not anecdotes" foot, and fuck them hard on that too. I would also keep stating that the wealthcare in America is social darwinist at its core, where if you're too poor to pay, you do not deserve long term care. I'd juxtapose video of people suffering without limbs from treatable illnesses with laughing anti-healthcare senators with the contributions from their healthcare bosses, and then I'd mention that their healthcare is supplied by the government.
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