UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

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UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by Big Orange »

As in America, this is the largely the result of wooly headed but ruthless Neoliberal economic thinking, with many under 30 year olds getting figuratively thrown under a bus when employment is increasingly harder to attain or keep:
A social timebomb is set to explode in Britain
The true jobless total is already over five million – and the young are hardest hit, says Edmund Conway.
By Edmund Conway
Published: 6:34AM GMT 29 Oct 2009

One of my favourite moments from the television series The Wire comes towards the end of the first season. Two of the police officers who have been monitoring drug dealers arrive one morning to find that the area is deserted: no one is selling drugs, no one lounging on the street corners. "Maybe we won," suggests one cop.

The reality, of course, is that this is only an interlude: the dealers have been lured away to an inter-gang basketball game. But I was reminded of that sense of false optimism this week, at a Royal Society of Arts discussion on youth unemployment. Someone asked Stephen Timms, Financial Secretary to the Treasury, why, when her organisation tried to provide a job centre with opportunities for young people, those working there insisted they didn't have enough applicants of the appropriate age. "Maybe," said Mr Timms, "you have to see that as a good sign."

It was little wonder that his comment provoked gasps of disbelief. When it comes to youth unemployment, there is precious little good news. The number of people aged under 25 and out of work is now just below a million – around one in five. This is up by 184,000 in the past year, and still climbing. As everyone apart from the minister could see, the absence of youngsters from a job centre reflects not a let-up in the problem, but shortcomings in the bureaucracy intended to combat it. According to Professor David Blanchflower, a labour market expert and former Bank of England policy-maker, it is highly likely that overall unemployment – currently just under 2.5 million, or 7.9 per cent of the working population – will climb to 3.4 million within a couple of years.

That would be higher than in the early 1980s, when the unemployment crisis was seen as just that – a social challenge of paramount importance, a cause for protests and riots. Yet so far, there has been far less handwringing, let alone any bold policies to deal with the issue.

This perplexing state of affairs owes something to three factors. First, unemployment lags behind the rest of the economy, so we are not aware of how bad the picture will get, convincing ourselves that the flexibility of the labour market – the ability of firms to cut hours and pay – will save us. Second, most of those losing their jobs are not those who find it easy to get their voices across – they are the young, the lower-paid, in the Midlands or the North. Third, economic policy before the 1980s had been explicitly aimed at fostering near-full employment; today's focus on inflation means unemployment is regarded as less of an issue.

Yet this is an issue of paramount importance. The labour market is facing two crises: an immediate spike in unemployment, and a longer-term sclerosis after the slump is over. The first is primarily an economic issue, the second a social one, but both are due to government failure.

First things first: we must brace ourselves for further deterioration in the labour market. The most recent figures suggest that the picture is improving: by some measures, unemployment has actually stopped rising. But don't be fooled. For a start, many "discouraged workers" who would previously have been categorised as unemployed have been labelled "economically inactive". Include them, plus those forced to shift to part-time work, and the true jobless total is 5.6 million, or just under 15 per cent of the working population: not far below the 17 per cent level in the US.

But there could be worse to come. The best way to work out what will happen to unemployment in a recession is to look at productivity – economic output per worker. Given there are fewer people in work, you'd expect that productivity would have risen, as those still in work took up the slack for absent colleagues. But in fact, productivity has fallen by almost 5 per cent, implying that firms have kept workers on despite there being less for them to do.

Andrew Lilico of the think-tank Policy Exchange estimates that if employment shrinks to match the real level of demand in the economy, another two million will be on the dole. That would be a nasty enough prospect even if things had been hunky-dory before the crisis. But youth unemployment had been rising over the course of a decade: whether due to age discrimination laws, or the failings of the education system, employers have been luring old workers out of retirement rather than taking on youngsters. This problem – massively exacerbated by the recession – will burn a hole in the core of our economy and society if unchecked. Study after study has shown that youngsters who cannot find work are far more likely to enter permanent joblessness than someone who has already been in the labour market.

The Government must find ways of encouraging companies to take on youngsters rather than grandparents. It must also – as Prof Blanchflower has suggested on these pages – find the money to keep more children in school, perhaps by immediately raising the leaving age to 18, or to create a system of national community or civic service. Extreme ideas, yes. But we still haven't yet absorbed how extreme this unemployment crisis will be.
Telegraph.co.uk

With young people increasingly becoming a permanent underclass and seeing many jobs shipped overseas, or cheap labour imported in, making Britain seem like a economic cul-de-sac, it is little wonder the preposterous BNP has gotten more mainstream.
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by General Zod »

People in their early 20s are considered "youths"? That's some rather strange terminology, I was thinking they meant 16-18 year olds. Would have been nice to have some more data in this article though, like how many of them have what kind of education.
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by Teebs »

Young people always suffer more from unemployment during bad economic times. They have fewer skills, and people who have jobs hang onto them much more reducing vacancies and it's much harder for companies to fire existing workers so they just stop recruiting.
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by mr friendly guy »

Older people generally suffer from employment problems in hard economic times as well as the company looks for youth. I am curious which age group is supposed to do best in these tough economic times.
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by Starglider »

mr friendly guy wrote:Older people generally suffer from employment problems in hard economic times as well as the company looks for youth. I am curious which age group is supposed to do best in these tough economic times.
30-50, except that that age group is most likely to fall behind on their mortgage payments and lose their home...
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by Zac Naloen »

I can believe this, out of my friends who all graduated Uni last year. One of them has a job.


I was lucky in that I didn't go to uni and have been working for the last 4 years so have that desired experience, I actually changed jobs in the middle of this recession.
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by Julhelm »

Do you brits also have that retarded law we swedes do that says the last employee must be the first to go in the event the employer has to lay off people?
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by Zac Naloen »

Julhelm wrote:Do you brits also have that retarded law we swedes do that says the last employee must be the first to go in the event the employer has to lay off people?

No I don't think so, people take it as an unwritten thing that generally happens though.


Never seen it happen in practise myself. It's usually the dead weight that is let go.
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by DaveJB »

Workers in this country are entitled to a statutory redundancy payment after 2 or so years (depending on your profession), so it's pretty much inevitable that anyone who hasn't worked long enough to earn such a payment will be the first ones to get the bullet when jobs are cut.
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by Big Orange »

From a personal standpoint how much has outsourcing got in the way of anybody's employment prospects? Indian call centres have generated enough bad PR to force some companies into having British call centres again. Britain unemployment could officially hit 2.75 million (though the Telegraph article claimed it was higher) while in Spain the unemployment is arguably the worst in the EU, with youth unemployment already at 40% (Spanish workers are costly to fire).
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by ArmorPierce »

From things I've seen, youth unemployment rate here in the US is as high as 50% or higher. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/t ... uIlGONNX1K .
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by Big Orange »

OK, here's an update on British unemployment for people under the age of 25:
Youth unemployment worst in Europe - as jobless rate reaches a million
Britain has the highest level of youth unemployment in Europe with official figures published this week expected to show that jobless rates among under-25s have breached the million barrier.
By Rosa Prince, Political Correspondent
Published: 3:46PM GMT 08 Nov 2009

The number of jobless university leavers is predicted to have reached the 100,000 mark when the latest unemployment figures are released on Wednesday, up from 70,000 last year, raising the prospect of a 2009 “lost generation” of out of work graduates.

Research by Keep Britain Working found that four out of five voters said that the parties’ policy on tackling youth unemployment would influence their choice at the next general election.

The Government will attempt to cushion the blow from the unemployment statistics, which experts predict will almost certainly show youth jobless rates at more than a million having reached 946,000 in August, by unveiling thousands of new jobs as part of the Backing Young Britain campaign.

A comparison of youth unemployment across Europe based on the July figures and released by the Conservatives shows that Britain has more out of work youngsters that any other country in the European Union.

Spain, in second place, has a smaller population than the United Kingdom, but both France in third and Germany, fourth, are larger.

Theresa May, shadow work and pensions secretary, said: “Labour has failed on unemployment. We desperately need to get Britain working again and make sure that a generation isn’t scarred by Gordon Brown’s recession.”

On Wednesday, Yvette Cooper, the Work and Pensions Secretary, will announce that more than 30,000 jobs will be created in roles such as health care, insulation fitting, and computing.

The jobs will be part of the innovative Future Jobs Fund, a £1 billion pot of money available for councils, charities and voluntary sector organisations to create posts for 18 to 24-year-olds and those in areas of particularly high unemployment.

Around 300,000 graduates left university this year, with numbers seeking higher education qualifications increasing as the recession bites. Nearly eight per cent of graduates under the age of 25 are now without a job.
Telegraph.co.uk
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by Dartzap »

Thats quite believable - the only people I know of my age who have managed to get and retain jobs in the last two years have been through apprenticeships or in healthcare of some kind. Its certainly how I managed it. From what I've heard, the only industries that are still taking people on are care homes and confectioners.
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

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And of course, the fact that many of those university leavers have degrees that are so much toilet paper as far as career prospects are concerned isn't a factor?
If people got more useful degrees, they'd have a better chance (note I don't claim a brilliant chance right now, but a chance nonetheless). As it is, too many people will have started degrees back when things were at the peak (3 - 4 yrs ago) and taken any old subject such as History of Art, and then been surprised to find that unlike in a boom situation you can't just get a degree with that sort of degree when conditions aren't good. The sort of office/ management trainee job that they'll be going for will be getting kept by those reluctant to risk moving or to those who have been with the employer for many years and have a proven history of contributing.

Also I take serious offense at the article posted by the OP saying that the government must find a way to stop companies taking OAPs over youngsters. Thats severely shortsighted given that so many people haven't saved for their retirement and need to keep working for much longer, and just passes the problem parcel. Or are we to go back to the idea that by the time you are 55 and are an experienced and skilled hand at your job that you must be classed as unemployable?
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by Teebs »

Most of my friends don't seem to have had trouble finding jobs, including myself (I finished my undergrad this year), but we were all Oxford students so I expect we'd far less affected by a jobs shortage than the average young person or even the average graduate.

My non-Oxford friends seem to be having much bigger problems. Some of them are just crap at looking for jobs and are putting laughable amounts of effort in while living off their parents, but others are working stupidly hard and still can't get anything.
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

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frogcurry wrote:Also I take serious offense at the article posted by the OP saying that the government must find a way to stop companies taking OAPs over youngsters. Thats severely shortsighted given that so many people haven't saved for their retirement and need to keep working for much longer, and just passes the problem parcel. Or are we to go back to the idea that by the time you are 55 and are an experienced and skilled hand at your job that you must be classed as unemployable?
The reason for this is quite clearly explained;
Study after study has shown that youngsters who cannot find work are far more likely to enter permanent joblessness than someone who has already been in the labour market.
Older people not being able to get a job is unfortunate, but when the economy picks up they will be re-employed; they still have the experience and track record. Young people who go years without being able to get a reasonable job can easily fail to get on the career ladder entirely ('why are you 25 already with no experience?'), say 'fuck you' to society and either sit on benefits or get sucked into crime instead. Very high levels of youth unemployment become a social unrest problem - gang membership will rise, there will be riots, genuine social breakdown and willing fodder for extremist parties. Unemployment of 50+s while tragic on an individual level will not cause these crippling wide-scale problems.
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

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frogcurry wrote:Also I take serious offense at the article posted by the OP saying that the government must find a way to stop companies taking OAPs over youngsters. Thats severely shortsighted given that so many people haven't saved for their retirement and need to keep working for much longer, and just passes the problem parcel. Or are we to go back to the idea that by the time you are 55 and are an experienced and skilled hand at your job that you must be classed as unemployable?
I honestly don't see how that is short-sighted. Your statement seems to be the short-sighted one.

As Starglider has stated, College graduates not being able to get into the career that they studied for in college will likely result in many of them never being able to get into the career. Whilst older people are able to take lower paying jobs and take a pay cut, this is not true with young people. When job recovery begins, the young people who have been out of work for a few years is not going to be the ones chosen. Instead, they will choose the people who just graduated first. This will result in a 'lost generation' of people who's income will have been drastically cut down because of the time of them not working, having to take lower wages (and negotiate from there) and missed opportunities. Also the fact that old people need jobs because they went on a credit splurge should not be a burdened on the youth and doing so is quite selfish.
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

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ArmorPierce wrote:From things I've seen, youth unemployment rate here in the US is as high as 50% or higher. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/t ... uIlGONNX1K .
BLS U-3 broken down by age range indicate 27.6% for 16-19 year olds and 15.6% for 20-24 year olds (source data)
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by ArmorPierce »

I believe that my source includes young people in school, descouraged workers etc. I'm not sure though since the article doesn't clarify.
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by ArmorPierce »

ArmorPierce wrote:
frogcurry wrote:Also I take serious offense at the article posted by the OP saying that the government must find a way to stop companies taking OAPs over youngsters. Thats severely shortsighted given that so many people haven't saved for their retirement and need to keep working for much longer, and just passes the problem parcel. Or are we to go back to the idea that by the time you are 55 and are an experienced and skilled hand at your job that you must be classed as unemployable?
I honestly don't see how that is short-sighted. Your statement seems to be the short-sighted one.

As Starglider has stated, College graduates not being able to get into the career that they studied for in college will likely result in many of them never being able to get into the career. Whilst older people are able to take lower paying jobs and take a pay cut, this is not true with young people. When job recovery begins, the young people who have been out of work for a few years is not going to be the ones chosen. Instead, they will choose the people who just graduated first. This will result in a 'lost generation' of people who's income will have been drastically cut down because of the time of them not working, having to take lower wages (and negotiate from there) and missed opportunities. Also the fact that old people need jobs because they went on a credit splurge should not be a burdened on the youth and doing so is quite selfish.

To steal Surlethe's post link http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009 ... lines.html demonstrates that older people are not experiencing any finding jobs. In fact, they are the least hit group from the current recession with numbers that reflect the average of pre-recession.
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

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ArmorPierce wrote: I honestly don't see how that is short-sighted. Your statement seems to be the short-sighted one.
This despite the fact that we just spent several years and a fair bit of legal effort preventing discrimination against the elderly because so many employers were refusing to offer them jobs no matter how qualified or suitable, as they were seen as "too old". Re-applying age discrimination to try and drive youth employment up is a cowardly and morally indefensible position. Its also questionable in its effectiveness as the older jobseekers will still be there afterwards in the same job market and aren't going to be able to re-train/ change career path as easily as a graduate.

OK, so lets you are a bit older one day. You are experienced at your job and can do it well. You have a good employment history, but were made redundant by your last employer who folded. You apply for a new job, but are told "Sorry Mr/Mrs ArmorPierce, you can't have the job as a younger person who is less qualified needs it." Are you going to class that as fair, reasonable and legal? Buts its precisely that sort of discrimination that is being proposed, on the basis that supposedly not giving young people jobs during a difficult period will cause them to fain swoon with lethargy and and inability to ever recover from the hardship. There have been bad periods for employment before in the 70's, 80's etc when exactly the same problems will have arisen. Do you have any historic examples you can reference that show that these became lost generations and caused massive social disruption?

I graduated in the last downswing period and had to take a job I didn't want after 6 months job seeking as it was the only industry hiring at the time. My entire life, where I live and my career since then has been shaped by the economic situation that just happened to exist when I left university. It wasn't as big a step down as might be needed today, but nonetheless graduates will need to re-shape their expectations downwards for a while and consider getting further skills other than just a degree. The onus is on them to make themselves employable, not on government induced discrimination against others just to massage the employment figures.
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

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frogcurry wrote:Re-applying age discrimination to try and drive youth employment up is a cowardly and morally indefensible position.
Because you say so. You have not addressed the points made explaining why it may be necessary.
Its also questionable in its effectiveness as the older jobseekers will still be there afterwards in the same job market
So? The problem is people failing to get into a career entirely. Once they're on the first rung, they can compete normally.
You apply for a new job, but are told "Sorry Mr/Mrs ArmorPierce, you can't have the job as a younger person who is less qualified needs it."
Will never happen, no one tells failed candidates why they failed, it is always a generic 'you do not fit our needs at this time' or 'we are sorry that you were unsuccessful, please try again later'.
Are you going to class that as fair, reasonable and legal?
It is legal if the government legalises it. It is reasonable if it is necessary to prevent serious damage to society. It would be fair if the same conditions were applied to everyone over their entire lifespans - obviously this isn't the case, since legislation and working environments constantly change, but I'm hardly going to cry for the baby boomer generation.
Do you have any historic examples you can reference that show that these became lost generations and caused massive social disruption?
It is exactly what happened in Japan, from the mid 90s to present. High social conformity prevented it from being a civil disobedience issue; European countries are not so lucky.
The onus is on them to make themselves employable, not on government induced discrimination against others just to massage the employment figures.
Graduates have not suddenly gotten worse at being 'employable'. In fact I think you'll find that CV writing and interviewing skills are on average much higher today than they were 20 years ago, due to the huge amount of books/classes/coaching now. Universities have more extensive graduate job support centers. The only real change in 'employability' is the fact that a far higher fraction of the population has a degree, so its value has gone down.
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

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frogcurry wrote:This despite the fact that we just spent several years and a fair bit of legal effort preventing discrimination against the elderly because so many employers were refusing to offer them jobs no matter how qualified or suitable, as they were seen as "too old". Re-applying age discrimination to try and drive youth employment up is a cowardly and morally indefensible position. Its also questionable in its effectiveness as the older jobseekers will still be there afterwards in the same job market and aren't going to be able to re-train/ change career path as easily as a graduate.
Who is saying anything about putting back age discrimination? I'm saying try to get more youth employed (yes that it will affect the older people's job market). It is a practical and necessary, otherwise a whole bunch of people just got fucked.

Also, yes it is probably easier to retrain a younger person. It being more feasible is not likely. Young people graduating with thousands of dollars in debt does not help when it comes to trying to retrain for another career. Also, there is no financial aid for a second major as far as I know.
OK, so lets you are a bit older one day. You are experienced at your job and can do it well. You have a good employment history, but were made redundant by your last employer who folded. You apply for a new job, but are told "Sorry Mr/Mrs ArmorPierce, you can't have the job as a younger person who is less qualified needs it." Are you going to class that as fair, reasonable and legal? Buts its precisely that sort of discrimination that is being proposed, on the basis that supposedly not giving young people jobs during a difficult period will cause them to fain swoon with lethargy and and inability to ever recover from the hardship.
No age discrimination is not they want to encourage. What they want to encourage is hiring of more young people and leveling the unemployment rates somewhat. Is it fair? Probably not. But is it fair that plenty of young people have gone into debt getting an education that proved to be worthless (not completely but maybe not as worth as what it could be especially if they got a specialized harder degree but couldn't get in) whilst the people who caused the current recession continue to live it up?
There have been bad periods for employment before in the 70's, 80's etc when exactly the same problems will have arisen. Do you have any historic examples you can reference that show that these became lost generations and caused massive social disruption?
Firstly, did you not read the article?
Study after study has shown that youngsters who cannot find work are far more likely to enter permanent joblessness than someone who has already been in the labour market.
Secondly, I believe that the current situation is worse on the youth with a college education than previous recessions. During previous recessions, a college education was worth a lot more.

Thirdly, it's pretty obvious that if they are not gaining job skills, when employees start hiring, they will be competing with people whom just graduated from college and the employer will probably go for the fresh graduate rather than go for someone who seems like they floundered for the past few years.

Finally, yes, I do have additional evidence. http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&section ... m=8&y=2009
The Millennials run the risk of following Japan’s lost decade. Years of economic stagnation and a sluggish recovery have had what economists call a hysteretic effect on Japan’s economy — something akin to a spring stretched too far.

Changes in Japan’s labor force resulted in a larger portion of the population being employed under contract with few benefits. This lost generation missed out on the opportunity to gain skills, resulting in widespread socioeconomic woe in a country known for its rigid corporate structure.

Many US graduates face a further hardship scrambling to pay off loans they took to finance a university education. Many were counting on the higher incomes that college degrees usually promise.

They graduate with an average debt of $27,000 with no means to pay it off and almost 30 percent — or 13.2 million in 2007 — of them are uninsured. One concern is that the graduates will lack the skills they need once the jobs come back.
“People who are out of the labor force tend to lose their skills and their connection to the labor force. When the economy recovers, they may not even be employable,” Bernanke said in testimony in June. Research has shown that unemployment early in a person’s career makes a lasting imprint.

A working paper by labor economist Lisa Kahn at the Yale School of Management showed that among white male college graduates, the most employed group, there are “large, negative and persistent” effects for those graduating during recessions.

Graduating into a bad economy for this group could mean 6 percent to 8 percent less in wages earned for each additional percentage point in the national unemployment rate. Even 15 years later, there is a 2.5 percent difference for each extra percentage point in the unemployment rate.
I graduated in the last downswing period and had to take a job I didn't want after 6 months job seeking as it was the only industry hiring at the time. My entire life, where I live and my career since then has been shaped by the economic situation that just happened to exist when I left university. It wasn't as big a step down as might be needed today, but nonetheless graduates will need to re-shape their expectations downwards for a while and consider getting further skills other than just a degree. The onus is on them to make themselves employable, not on government induced discrimination against others just to massage the employment figures.
I still don't know how getting programs up to help get young people employed is age discrimination. As I said, it's hard to continue furthering their skills when there is no financial aid for going back to school and they are already so much in debt from financing their education in the first place.
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ray245
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

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If debts is one of the major factors involved, I have to wonder, why shouldn't the US implement free education on the tertiary level?
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Re: UK Unemployment Hitting Youths Hardest.

Post by Starglider »

ray245 wrote:If debts is one of the major factors involved, I have to wonder, why shouldn't the US implement free education on the tertiary level?
That would be massively expensive, and the US already has a huge budget deficit and underfunded liabilities piling up. How do you propose to pay for this? That and the fact that a good fraction of degrees are worthless (assorted 'soft' subjects), and that fraction will only go up if people don't have to pay.
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