Unemployment now sub-10%

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KrauserKrauser
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Unemployment now sub-10%

Post by KrauserKrauser »

I'm sure alot of us really want to believe this story
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The government's monthly job report on Friday showed that the disastrous labor situation plaguing the nation's economy is moderating. But the report also underlines an unsettling reality: 8.4 million jobs have been vaporized since the recession began, and digging out won't be easy.

The unemployment rate fell unexpectedly in January to 9.7%. And businesses shed 20,000 jobs for the month, far fewer than the 150,000 jobs that were lost in December.

But, at the same time, the Labor Department revised its previous estimates for the number of jobs that have been lost over the past 25 months. What they found wasn't pretty.

Since the recession began in December 2007, the economy has lost 1.4 million more jobs than previously believed. The adjustments also showed losses for 2009 alone came to 4.8 million jobs, more than 600,000 additional lost jobs than previously estimated.

"We're coming out of a very, very steep downturn," said Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research. "The revisions show that we have a really big hole to come out of."

The revision came about because the government had been dramatically underestimating the number of businesses that were closing due to the recession.

Signs of improvement, but steep hill to climb
Economists estimate that the country needs to create at least 125,000 jobs per month just to keep up with the nation's expanding job force. That's why the downward revisions of past job losses are a stark reminder of how much the economy needs to turn around. There are now 14.8 million unemployed Americans, who have been jobless for an average of 30 weeks -- an all-time high.

"Even as today's numbers contain signs of the beginning of recovery, they are also a reminder of how far we still have to go to return the economy to robust health and full employment," said White House economist Christina Romer in a statement.

"It is important not to read too much into any one monthly report, positive or negative," she added. "It is essential that we continue our efforts to move in the right direction and replace job losses with robust job gains."

There were signs in January's report that the worst of the labor decline is largely over, and many businesses are beginning to hire again.

The manufacturing industry created 11,000 jobs last month, and the services industry was the biggest jobs creator, with a net gain of 48,000 jobs. Of those services gains, 42,100 came from the retail sector, suggesting businesses are hopeful that the recent growth in consumer spending wasn't a fluke.

Perhaps the most encouraging sign from January's report was that 44,000 jobs were created in the business services industry, which includes administrators and temporary workers. Economists see professional services as a proxy for overall economic activity, and many employers hire temporary workers before signing on new full-time staff.

Employers also largely hire workers that were reduced to part-time positions for full-time work before they hire new employees. That trend appeared to be in play in January, as the so-called under-employment rate fell to 16.5% last month from from 17.3% in December. The under-employment rate measures the percentage of Americans who were unable to find jobs with the amount of hours they want to work, as well as those without jobs who have become discouraged and stopped looking for work.

Workers were also working longer hours: The hourly work week rose by an average of 6 minutes to 33.9 hours in January. With a modest 4-cent gain in the average hourly salary, the average weekly paycheck rose by $1.36 to $761.06.

Employers still cautious
Still, it wasn't all good news. Several sectors continued to shed jobs, including the hard-hit construction industry, which shed another 75,000 jobs in January. The transportation and financial industries also lost in excess of 10,000 jobs, and the government shed a net 8,000 positions in January.

"Employers are still very cautious about hiring people and adding to their payrolls on a permanent basis," said Joanie Ruge, senior vice president at outsourcing firm Adecco Group North America, a unit of the world's largest employment staffing firm. "Many companies are looking to make sure they don't aggressively add staff -- and then the economic turnaround doesn't last, and they're force to lay off again."

Economists were cautious in their optimism as well. Though the unemployment rate fell to 9.7% from 10%, economists were skeptical that a month of job loss could muster such a large decline in the jobless rate.

Many experts chalked up the decline to the recent round of revisions impacting the estimated number of people in the workforce.

"January's rate showed an exaggerated sense of improvement in labor market," said Mark Vitner, economist at Wells Fargo. "But there is improvement. I don't want to take that away."
And here is the reason I feel that the above report is a bunch of bullshit
Poof: Another 800,000 jobs disappear

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- As bad as the government's jobs readings numbers have been during the Great Recession, we'll soon find out the real situation likely was worse.

Much worse.

Job losses during the recession may have been underestimated by close to a million jobs. So instead of employers cutting just over 7 million jobs from their payrolls since the economic downturn began in December 2007, it's expected that the Labor Department's new estimate will be a loss of 8 million jobs.

"It's an enormous understatement of the severity of the crisis," said Heidi Shierholz, labor economist with the Economic Policy Institute, a union-supported think tank. "It confirms that things were actually worse on the ground than what the reports suggested."

The new reading will come when the economists at the department's Bureau of Labor Statistics release their annual revision of U.S. payrolls from April 2008 through March of 2009 Friday, using data that wasn't available as the monthly readings were being estimated and reported.

Typically the revision results in only a slight change in the previous estimate -- about 0.1% to 0.2% of the total number of jobs. But there was nothing typical about the twelve month stretch that ended last March.

That period included the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers, the seizing up of financial markets and the U.S. economy toppling close to the brink of another depression.

Battle brews over hourly jobs
The government's current readings show that 4.8 million jobs were lost in those twelve months, more than twice the jobs lost during any comparable April-March period going back to 1939, when the numbers first started to be compiled.

But the department has already given a preliminary look at this Friday's revision, and it says it believes it will show 824,000 fewer workers on payrolls than the current estimates. That would be the biggest downward revision in the 30 years for which comparisons of those adjustments is possible.

"There's certainly a disconnect between economists like myself who say the recession ended in May or June and the person on the street who says the recession hasn't ended," said John Canally, economist LPL Financial. "This report is only going to widen that gap."

Canally said the big revision is one reason that it's difficult to estimate what Friday's report will show about the labor market in January, or how investors will react to the report.

Economists surveyed by Briefing.com are forecasting a net gain of 13,000 jobs in January, following a loss of 85,000 jobs in December. The unemployment rate is expected to remain at 10%.

Economists say it shouldn't be a surprise that there is such a big revision this time, given the severity of the economic downturn.

"Most of the time it's reasonably accurate. But when there are very sharp changes in the economy, they tend to miss and it becomes a big problem," said Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research.

The problem is that BLS models appear to have grossly overestimated the number of new businesses that opened during the recession.

The payroll number is created through a monthly survey of employers, but that survey misses employers who start a business during the course of the year, as well as those who have gone out of business.

So every month BLS uses what is known as a birth-death adjustment to estimate the number of jobs created or lost from that turnover in business.

During the April 2008-March 2009 period, that adjustment added jobs to the overall payroll number in 11 of the 12 months, resulting in a net gain of 717,000 jobs.

"When the numbers were coming out, the idea that we had a significant number of businesses being created didn't make sense," said Baker.

There is a concern that this problem didn't end in March of 2009. In fact, the adjustment added even more jobs -- 990,000 -- in the nine months reported since then.

So another big revision in the payroll numbers could be looming a year from now. That means this Friday's report should give pause to anyone who is depending on the official numbers to signal real improvement in the economy.

"The numbers might be showing some pick-up in hiring, but I haven't seen much evidence of it," said Mark Vitner, senior economist with Wells Fargo Securities
Looking at the U-6 numbers there was some good news with the US going from 17.4 to 16.5 so there was some changes at the baseline, but the second report makes me believe that whatever numbers we get out of this administration are going to fudged as hell.

But seriously folks, 800,000 jobs off, 14% off the actual and somehow this isn't a big deal? Where is the transparency, fuck, where is the competence?
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Re: Unemployment now sub-10%

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Re: Unemployment now sub-10%

Post by [R_H] »

Does BLS count people who have stopped searching for work as unemployed, or not at all? I thought CNN reported something along those lines, but I'm not sure anymore.
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Re: Unemployment now sub-10%

Post by J »

Well, Obama did say he'd fix unemployment in his SOTU speech; it's now fixed, in the way that a bookie would use the term.
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Re: Unemployment now sub-10%

Post by Phantasee »

Apparently Canada's unemployment is about 8.3% now. How reliable would that number be? (via CBC)
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Re: Unemployment now sub-10%

Post by mrbubbles »

[R_H] wrote:Does BLS count people who have stopped searching for work as unemployed, or not at all? I thought CNN reported something along those lines, but I'm not sure anymore.
Yup, the numbers are phony as hell. A big chunk of the work force is no longer counted. Lots of revisionism and number fudging.
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Re: Unemployment now sub-10%

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[R_H] wrote:Does BLS count people who have stopped searching for work as unemployed, or not at all? I thought CNN reported something along those lines, but I'm not sure anymore.
Direct from the BLS site:
Who is counted as unemployed?

Persons are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work. Actively looking for work may consist of any of the following activities:

* Contacting:
o An employer directly or having a job interview
o A public or private employment agency
o Friends or relatives
o A school or university employment center
* Sending out resumes or filling out applications
* Placing or answering advertisements
* Checking union or professional registers
* Some other means of active job search

Passive methods of job search do not have the potential to result in a job offer and therefore do not qualify as active job search methods. Examples of passive methods include attending a job training program or course, or merely reading about job openings that are posted in newspapers or on the Internet.

Workers expecting to be recalled from temporary layoff are counted as unemployed, whether or not they have engaged in a specific jobseeking activity. In all other cases, the individual must have been engaged in at least one active job search activity in the 4 weeks preceding the interview and be available for work (except for temporary illness).

The questions used in the interviews are carefully designed to elicit the most accurate picture of each person's labor force activities. Some of the major questions that determine employment status are: (The capitalized words are emphasized when read by the interviewers.)

1. Does anyone in this household have a business or a farm?
2. LAST WEEK, did you do ANY work for (either) pay (or profit)?
If the answer to question 1 is "yes" and the answer to question 2 is "no," the next question is:
3. LAST WEEK, did you do any unpaid work in the family business or farm?
For those who reply "no" to both questions 2 and 3, the next key questions used to determine employment status are:
4. LAST WEEK, (in addition to the business,) did you have a job, either full or part time? Include any job from which you were temporarily absent.
5. LAST WEEK, were you on layoff from a job?
6. What was the main reason you were absent from work LAST WEEK?
For those who respond "yes" to question 5 about being on layoff, the following questions are asked:
7. Has your employer given you a date to return to work?
and, if "no,"
8. Have you been given any indication that you will be recalled to work within the next 6 months?
If the responses to either question 7 or 8 indicate that the person expects to be recalled from layoff, he or she is counted as unemployed. For those who were reported as having no job or business from which they were absent or on layoff, the next question is:
9. Have you been doing anything to find work during the last 4 weeks?
For those who say "yes," the next question is:
10. What are all of the things you have done to find work during the last 4 weeks?
If an active method of looking for work, such as those listed at the beginning of this section, is mentioned, the following question is asked:
11. LAST WEEK, could you have started a job if one had been offered?
If there is no reason, except temporary illness, that the person could not take a job, he or she is considered to be not only looking but also available for work and is counted as unemployed.

Some examples of responses that are typically given in interviews and that may result in a person being classified as unemployed are:

1. Yvonne Bennett reported that 2 weeks ago she applied for a job as a receptionist at the Capitol Travel Agency and the Equity Mortgage Lending Company. She is awaiting the results of her applications. Yvonne is unemployed because she made a specific effort to find a job within the prior 4 weeks and is presently available for work.

2. Mrs. Jenkins tells the interviewer that her daughter, Katherine Marie, was thinking about looking for work in the prior 4 weeks but knows of no specific efforts she has made. Katherine Marie does not meet the activity test for unemployment and is, therefore, counted as not in the labor force.

3. John Stetson has been checking for openings at a local superstore for each of the past 3 weeks, but his wife reported that last week he had the flu and was unable to work because of it. John is counted as unemployed because he took steps to look for work and would have been available for work during the survey reference week, except for his temporary illness.

4. Marcus Green was laid off from the Hotshot Motor Company when the firm began retooling to produce a new model car. Marcus knows he will be called back to work as soon as the model changeover is completed, and he also knows it is unlikely that he would be able to find a job for the period he is laid off; so, although he is available to work, he is not seeking a job. Marcus is unemployed because he is waiting to be recalled from layoff.

5. Joan Howard told the interviewer that she has filed applications with three companies for summer jobs. However, it is only April and she doesn't wish to start work until at least June 15, because she is attending school. Although she has taken specific steps to find a job, Joan is classified as not in the labor force because she is not currently available for work. Students are treated the same as other persons; that is, they are classified as employed or unemployed if they meet the criteria, whether they are in school on a full- or part-time basis.

From these definitions and examples, it can be seen that the total unemployment figures cover more than the number of persons who have lost jobs. It includes persons who have quit their jobs to look for other employment, workers whose temporary jobs have ended, persons looking for their first jobs, and experienced workers looking for jobs after an absence from the labor force (for example, a woman who returns to the labor force after her children have entered school). Information also is collected for the unemployed on, for example, the industry and occupation of their last job held, duration of unemployment, reason for being jobless, and job search methods.
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Re: Unemployment now sub-10%

Post by ArmorPierce »

mrbubbles wrote:
[R_H] wrote:Does BLS count people who have stopped searching for work as unemployed, or not at all? I thought CNN reported something along those lines, but I'm not sure anymore.
Yup, the numbers are phony as hell. A big chunk of the work force is no longer counted. Lots of revisionism and number fudging.
They were never counted as the part of the unemployment rate as far as I know. Anyone can say that they want a job and not actually bother looking for a job. How many of them that actually genuninely would be working if they found a job is harder to determine.
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Re: Unemployment now sub-10%

Post by Dominus Atheos »

[R_H] wrote:Does BLS count people who have stopped searching for work as unemployed, or not at all? I thought CNN reported something along those lines, but I'm not sure anymore.
People who have given up on looking for work are not counted. It's important to remember that it's been exactly one year since the recession really started hitting us, and that unemployment benefits only last for 1 year.

So any fall in that number most likely only reflect the people who's unemployment expired recently. In other words, people who are even more screwed then they were when they were counted as unemployed.
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Re: Unemployment now sub-10%

Post by Dominus Atheos »

After googleing for more information, this is the best explanation I could find:
The Rush Limbaugh Show

RUSH: Yeah, except the problem is it's not accurate. They did include the revised number of unemployed people up to eight million instead of seven, and they did include the first wave of Census Bureau hires -- and they're going to be hiring these workers all through June and they're gonna hire a million of them. So you're going to see the unemployment rate drop because of that, but keep in mind those Census jobs are temporary. They're going to lose their jobs when the Census work is over.

They did two tricks today in addition to what I just mentioned to you. In fact, Rick Santelli on CNBC this morning said that the level of manipulation on these numbers is intensifying. Without the move to remove how many jobs there are in the marketplace, he says the rate would be 10.6% for January, and let me explain what he means. He was specific on the Obama administration lowering how many jobs are even in the total marketplace. I think they took it from 136 million and changed it down to 129 million. So if there is a smaller universe of jobs, naturally you're going to have a lower percentage of those unemployed. They have been manipulating and doing everything they can to keep this number at or below 10%, but of course this is what's called the U3 number. The U6 number includes -- and this is the number that's around 17 or 18% -- people who have stopped looking, and that number continues to expand. These are the people whose unemployment compensation benefits have expired. So this 9.7% number... We'll wait for the revisions as we always do, and we'll pound the revisions to you when they come out. The State-Controlled Media will, of course, ignore them. But folks, it's just not what it seems to be. I really wish it were. I wish that I could wholeheartedly endorse this. But everybody was stunned by this. Not just the usual experts were surprised. Everybody, and I'm wondering...

I'll tell you why it a was surprise: Because everybody was told that there was going to be a revision on February 5th that would add a million more unemployed from the last year than were originally reported. So everybody was saying, "Oh, my God, it's gotta skyrocket." Now it comes in 9.7, down three-tenths of a point. So I'm beginning to wonder if they set everybody up with all of that the last couple days about 800,000, almost a million jobs they missed and unemployed people they missed. So now look what they've done: They've created this pleasant, shocking surprise. Why, even though 20,000 more people lost their jobs... The 800,000 that we forgot to count last year, why, lo and behold, the unemployment rate still went down! Whoa! Are we great or are we great?

"See, we've lost 800,000 jobs that we forgot to count last year. In January, 20,000 more jobs were lost. And yet the unemployment rate went down three-tenths of a point. And, yeah, we've lot eight million jobs versus seven million, a million more jobs than we thought," and yet the unemployment rate goes down? Ha! Of course the State-Controlled Media is not gonna delve into it anywhere near like we have here at the EIB Network. But they just lowered the number of available jobs to get a lower percentage.

Listen to this convoluted paragraph from Reuters: "While a sharp increase in the number of people giving up looking for work helped to depress the jobless rate, some details of the employment report were encouraging. The number of 'discouraged job seekers' rose to 1.1 million in January from 734,000 a year ago." That's encouraging? "The number of 'discouraged job' seekers rose" 400,000, and that's encouraging? This paragraph is illiterate!
The world must be a very dark and scary place when the only person who speaks the truth is Rush Limbaugh.
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Re: Unemployment now sub-10%

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

I havn't had full-time work in about 16 months, though I tend to get substitute-teaching jobs 2-3 days a week to supplement/offset my unemployment payouts. If I wasn't working at all, I'd have been out of unemployment months ago.
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Re: Unemployment now sub-10%

Post by Broomstick »

Dominus Atheos wrote:The world must be a very dark and scary place when the only person who speaks the truth is Rush Limbaugh.
The old saying is that even a stopped clock is right twice a day ... and it looks like Limbaugh is, indeed, right this time.

My unemployment ran out August 2008.

I have not have steady or full time work since.

I have not had paying work at all since the first week of December 2009.

If it weren't for food stamps we'd literally be starving at this point.

And I'm nowhere near as bad off as some I know, as some of my neighbors, or one of my sisters who spent several months homeless last summer.
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Re: Unemployment now sub-10%

Post by J »

A couple excerpts from David Rosenberg's daily newsletter. He's one of the good guys who actually puts on his thinking cap and does a big picture analysis on financial news events.

From today's "Lunch with Dave" column:
WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO MEN AT WORK?

In the overall scheme of things, considering the intense fiscal problems in
Euroland, the prospect of sovereign debt defaults and the future of the regional
monetary union, today’s U.S. payroll report is really a secondary event. The
headline payroll result was below expected at -20k (consensus was +20k) and
there were downward revisions of 930k to the back data (April 2008 to March
2009) from the much-anticipated benchmark revisions.

To put the -20k headline payroll result into perspective, history shows us that
what is normal is that fully 24 months after a recession begins we are printing
employment gains of 100k. In other words, labour market conditions can still be
described as being somewhat abnormal and fundamentally soft even if the pace
of deterioration has abated.

As we and others had been saying for so long, it was ludicrous for the Bureau of
Labor Statistics to have been assuming that the economy was generating net
new jobs from business creation. As a result of the changes made to the ‘birth-
death’ model, we had downward revisions in four of the prior five months
(totalling 245k — for example, December was revised to show a 150k loss
versus the initial -85k print). Excluding the federal government hiring last
month, payrolls would have declined 53k. And, while the diffusion indices for
private payrolls and manufacturing did improve, they do remain squarely below
50, which suggests that the plurality of employers are still in the process of
shedding labour, more than two years after the recession officially began.
The working-age population plunged 92k in January and such a decline has
occurred but five times since 1951 and they most happen in January, so we could
well be spending an inordinate amount of time analyzing a report that is rife with
bad sampling. For example, we also found that despite the great headline in the
Household survey, adult-male employment (aged 25 years and over) actually fell
75k and has declined now for 18 months in a row. Moreover, the adult-male
unemployment rate yet again was at 10% in January, a level it has either been at
or breached for six straight months in unprecedented string dating back to 1947.

Meanwhile adult-women employment over the age of 20 posted a 529,000 job
boom. In the battle of the sexes, Venus clearly took January. Moreover, look at
Chart 1, male employment (aged 25 to 54 years old) plunged 114k in January and
is back to levels last seen in June 1996. Almost 10% of what was once considered
the ‘breadwinner’ part of the workforce has been extinguished during this
recession. How can anyone realistically be excited about recovery prospects
knowing this?

Taking a big picture viewpoint, the U.S. labour market remains fundamentally
weak. Despite the clarion calls for recovery from the legions of Wall Street
economists and strategists, the reality is that labour market gaps remain very
wide; here we are more than two years after the recession officially started and the
ranks of the long-term unemployed continue to swell. The average duration of
unemployment rose to a record 30.2 weeks from 29.1 weeks in December; and
for the first time ever, we have more than 6.3 million Americans (up from 6.1
million in December) who have been looking for a job with no luck for at least six
months. That is an unprecedented 41.2% share of the pool of unemployment.

While there will be many economists touting today’s report as some inflection
point, and it could well be argued that we are entering some sort of healing phase
in the jobs market just by mere virtue of inertia, the reality is that the level of
employment today, at 129.5 million, is the exact same level it was in 1999. And,
during this 11-year span of Japanese-like labour market stagnation, the working-
age population has risen 29 million. Contemplate that for a moment; fully 29
million more people competing for the same number of jobs that existed more than
a decade ago.
That sounds like pretty deflationary stuff from our standpoint.

Not only that, but consideration must be taken that in 2009, we had a zero
policy rate, a $2.2 trillion Fed balance sheet and an epic 10% deficit-to-GDP
ratio. You could not have asked for more government stimulus. Yet
employment tumbled nearly 5 million in 2009.

Here we are in 2010, and what we have on our hands is a situation where the
outer limits of deficit finance have already been probed, and the Fed has pledged
to start shrinking its balance sheet and withdraw its critical support for the
mortgage market. Yet the deleveraging in the household sector is ongoing and it
now looks as though the economies in Asia and Europe are going be slowing down,
not speeding up, in coming quarters.
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Re: Unemployment now sub-10%

Post by aerius »

Here's a very easy to understand explanation of how the BLS calculates unemployment, and why the numbers can seemingly improve while everything is going down the shitter.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/201 ... -rate.html

It seems a little non intuitive at first, but once you finish watching the video and head over to the BLS's tables, you'll realize what's going on. Gotta love that math.
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