Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. waters

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Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. waters

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At least ten dead
MSNBC wrote: Report: Israel attacks flotilla, 10 die
Turkish network says 30 on pro-Palestinian ships are hurt

Reuters

msnbc.com staff and news service reports
updated 1 hour, 1 minute ago
HAIFA, Israel - Israeli Navy commandos attacked at least one of the six ships carrying pro-Palestinian activists and aid for blockaded Gaza, killing at least 10 and wounding several dozen on board, according to an Israeli TV network and a lawyer for the activists' group.

Channel 10 said the final death toll could be higher as Navy commandos who boarded the convoy were still conducting searches and encountering often violent resistance from pro-Palestinian activists.

Responding to accusations that Israeli commandos assaulted the ships guns blazing, Israel's Army Radio later said that passengers had tried to grab weapons away from soldiers boarding the flotilla.

The al-Jazeera satellite channel reported by telephone from the Turkish ship leading the flotilla that Israeli Navy forces fired at the ship and boarded it, wounding the captain.

The Turkish NTV network also reported an Israeli takeover with gunfire, and that at least 30 activists were wounded.

The al-Jazeera broadcast ended with a voice shouting in Hebrew, "Everybody shut up!"

The reports came just after daybreak, with the flotilla still well away from the Gaza shore. Israel had declared it would not allow the ships to reach Gaza.

In Istanbul, Turkey, police blocked dozens of stone-throwing protesters who tried to storm the Israeli Consulate.

The six-ship flotilla began the journey from international waters off the coast of Cyprus on Sunday afternoon after two days of delays. It had expected to reach Gaza, about 250 miles away, on Monday afternoon.

Earlier, Huwaida Arraf, one of the organizers, had said two more ships would follow in "a second wave."

The flotilla was "fully prepared for the different scenarios" that might arise, and organizers were hopeful that Israeli authorities would "do what's right" and not stop the convoy, she said.

"We fully intend to go to Gaza regardless of any intimidation or threats of violence against us," she said. "They are going to have to forcefully stop us."

After nightfall Sunday, three Israeli navy missile boats left their base in Haifa, steaming out to sea to confront the activists' ships.

Two hours later, Israel Radio broadcast a recording of one of the missile boats warning the flotilla not to approach Gaza.

"If you ignore this order and enter the blockaded area, the Israeli navy will be forced to take all the necessary measures in order to enforce this blockade," the radio message continued.

Ships had changed course
Al-Jazeera earlier reported that the ships initially changed course to try to avoid a nighttime confrontation, preferring a daylight showdown for better publicity.

The flotilla, which includes three cargo ships and three passenger ships, is trying to draw attention to Israel's three-year blockade of the Gaza Strip. The boats are carrying items that Israel bars from reaching Gaza, like cement and other building materials. The activists said they also were carrying hundreds of electric-powered wheelchairs, prefabricated homes and water purifiers.

Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said that after a security check, permitted humanitarian aid confiscated from the boats will be transferred to Gaza through authorized channels. However, Israel would not transfer items it has banned from Gaza under its blockade rules. Palmor said that for example, cement would be allowed only if it is tied to a specific project.

This is the ninth time that the Free Gaza movement has tried to ship in humanitarian aid to Gaza since August 2008.

Israel has let ships through five times, but has blocked them from entering Gaza waters since a three-week military offensive against Gaza's Hamas rulers in January 2009. The flotilla bound for Gaza is the largest to date.

Some 700 pro-Palestinian activists are on the boats, including 1976 Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire of Northern Ireland, European legislators and an elderly Holocaust survivor.

The mission has experienced repeated delays, both due to mechanical problems and a decision by Cyprus to bar any boat from sailing from its shore to Gaza. The ban forced a group of European lawmakers to depart from the breakaway Turkish Cypriot northern part of the island late Saturday.

Israel and Egypt imposed the blockade on Gaza after Hamas militants violently seized control of the seaside territory in June 2007.

Israel says the measures are needed to prevent Hamas, which has fired thousands of rockets at Israel, from building up its arsenal. But U.N. officials and international aid groups say the blockade has been counterproductive, failing to weaken the Islamic militant group while devastating the local economy.

In particular, the ban on building materials has prevented Gazans from repairing thousands of homes that were damaged or destroyed in an Israeli military offensive, meant to stop Hamas rocket attacks, early last year.

Israel rejects claims of a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, saying it allows more than enough food and medicine into the territory. The Israelis also point to the bustling smuggling industry along Gaza's southern border with Egypt, which has managed to bring consumer goods, gasoline and livestock into the seaside strip.

Commandos training to take ships?
Israel has condemned the flotilla as a provocation and vowed to block it from reaching Gaza.

Israeli military officials said they hope to resolve the situation peacefully but are prepared for all scenarios. Naval commandos have been training for days in anticipation of the standoff. Military officials, speaking on condition of anonymity under official guidelines, said the forces would likely take over the boats under the cover of darkness.

Palmor said foreigners on the ships would be "sent back to their countries." Activists who did not willingly agree to be deported would be detained. A special detention facility has been set up in the southern Israeli city of Ashdod.

At Gaza's tiny port, meant for small fishing boats, Hamas officials, activists and foreign nationals prepared to welcome the flotilla, sitting in some 40 small boats that were bobbing in the sea and decorated with the flags of the countries of the pro-Palestinian activists, including Turkey and Algeria.

In other boats, Gaza boy scouts played music, while on shore, other activists released balloons with the faces of Palestinian civilians and militants killed in battles with Israeli forces.

In Syria, eight Damascus-based Palestinian groups urged Arab and Muslim states to work to support the flotilla and warned Israel against committing any "foolishness to impede the vessels"

"This could create more tension and trigger unpredictable reactions," said the groups, which included Hamas and the militant Islamic Jihad.
NOTE: I'm not intending to break IvP here, this is just going to be an important story in coming days.

I'm not sure what to say. If this is what it seems, than this is a truly heartless action from Israel.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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Seems like the standard IVP type story. Israel clamps down on Palestine, Palestinian supporters try to protest, Israeli's push back in a dickish way, Palestinian supporters push back against the armed troops, Israel starts shooting back. Moral outrage on all sides. Pissing off Turkey doesn't help.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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Reason cement is banned unless a specific project is tied to it? Hizbollah/Hamas/PA likes to divert it to build bunkers and fortifications.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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"Blockade runners get stopped cold after being warned"

More at 11.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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Highlord Laan wrote:"Blockade runners get stopped cold after being warned"

More at 11.
International waters is now Israeli territory? Huh, news to me.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

Post by Highlord Laan »

VT-16 wrote:
Highlord Laan wrote:"Blockade runners get stopped cold after being warned"

More at 11.
International waters is now Israeli territory? Huh, news to me.
If the US had stopped illegal shipping bound for here in international waters, nobody would be saying a thing, even if it ended in the same manner. The only reason anyone pretends to give a damn is because Israel did it, and they're always in the wrong, right?
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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Highlord Laan wrote:
VT-16 wrote:
Highlord Laan wrote:"Blockade runners get stopped cold after being warned"

More at 11.
International waters is now Israeli territory? Huh, news to me.
If the US had stopped illegal shipping bound for here in international waters, nobody would be saying a thing, even if it ended in the same manner. The only reason anyone pretends to give a damn is because Israel did it, and they're always in the wrong, right?
The precarious situation in the Middle East does make this story perhaps more significant than a hypothetical U.S. scenario, but I suggest you take another temperature of the board's political climate before you suggest none of us would care if the United States killed over a dozen peace activists bearing humanitarian supplies after illegally boarding their ship.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

Post by Oskuro »

Actually the uproar is more because of there being members of humanitarian NGOs and journalists aboard the boats. Heck, one of the Spanish NGO members was doing a vlog prior to the attack.

I'm sure there's more here than what both sides are saying, though, but this will most certainly be seized from the press as an anti-Israel argument. Not that I agree either with Israel barging in and killing people from what suposedly were unnarmed vessels (as far as we know).

The article from a Spanish news outlet. It says more or less the same than the article in the OP, but with a bit more emphasis on the Spanish pressence on the boats.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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I seriously thought they would use police and arrest them as soon as they sailed into Israeli waters. Why the fuck would you use armed commandos? All that has to happen is one guy to over react or mistakenly identify a danger for a blood bath.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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bobalot wrote:I seriously thought they would use police and arrest them as soon as they sailed into Israeli waters. Why the fuck would you use armed commandos? All that has to happen is one guy to over react or mistakenly identify a danger for a blood bath.
The IDF asked YAMAM (the police coounter-terror unit) was supposed to participate, but the police refused to allocate them (for some legal reason apparently, I'm not sure what)
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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Rumors are swirling that Israel is requesting that all of its citizens in Turkey leave immediately. I'm trying to find a concrete source, but that could be very serious.

e: I can only find a handful of tweets that mention Al Arabiya TV, which I gather to be a Turkish station.

e2: As expected, Israel has declared that they found weapons aboard the convoy.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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This is probably the most dangerous moment in the history of the Middle East since 1973. The Turkish government has been turning increasingly against Israel, and unlike the Arab states, who collectively can't punch their way out of a paper bag, the Turks are worth all of their countries put together, and probably Iran too. If Turkish citizens were machine-gunned by Israeli commandos in international waters the US will have to expend every last drop of political capital in the mid-east it has left to keep the situation (between our actual ally, Turkey, a NATO state, and Israel) from escalating, and in doing so will further humiliate our nation and make it seem like we're the obsessive defenders of Israel.

The Israelis are now in the position the British Empire was when it killed Jewish refugees on the refugee ships trying to reach Israel in 1947, and if Spaniards also died then they could rapidly end up fully isolated by the European Union. For that matter US defence of Israel in preference to a NATO ally could see serious internal problems in NATO. I don't think there will be a military conflict out of this (though the massacre of Israeli citizens in Turkey by outraged nationalists is entirely possible), but the diplomatic repercussions could, in fact, mark the end of the free ride Israel has enjoyed in the west outside of the USA, and further isolate America in a foreign policy context, leading to less support for any measures against Iran and a drawback from European commitments in the Muslim world like Afghanistan to avoid being tainted with the brush of a mindless American support for Israel which will probably extend to the point of favouring the Israeli state over our own legal allies.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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Qwerty 42 wrote:
e2: As expected, Israel has declared that they found weapons aboard the convoy.
And Tukhachevsky was a German spy...
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Qwerty 42 wrote:
e2: As expected, Israel has declared that they found weapons aboard the convoy.
And Tukhachevsky was a German spy...
To be clear, I'm only saying that there was never anything else that Israel was going to say, not that I believe there were actually weapons.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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Highlord Laan wrote:
VT-16 wrote:
Highlord Laan wrote:"Blockade runners get stopped cold after being warned"

More at 11.
International waters is now Israeli territory? Huh, news to me.
If the US had stopped illegal shipping bound for here in international waters, nobody would be saying a thing, even if it ended in the same manner. The only reason anyone pretends to give a damn is because Israel did it, and they're always in the wrong, right?
So you find nothing wrong with the disproportionate violence used against an unarmed humanitarian convoi?

I mean comon, what were the Israelis thinking? Wasn't there any other option instead of commiting an massacre on international waters? I cannot think of a worse scenario for each side on the conflict.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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Qwerty 42 wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Qwerty 42 wrote:
e2: As expected, Israel has declared that they found weapons aboard the convoy.
And Tukhachevsky was a German spy...
To be clear, I'm only saying that there was never anything else that Israel was going to say, not that I believe there were actually weapons.
Just to be a bit of a devil's advocate, what if they actually did find weapons? What if the first thing out of this mess is video footage of cargo holds filled to the brim with machine guns, RPG-7s and blocks of plastique?

Of course, it'll be "Isreal put them there."



Really, this is a no-win situation. They probably shouldn't have stormed the vessels, and they definitely shouldn't have done it in international waters. It puts the U.S. in an horrific situation: we either piss off a NATO member and all of NATO by siding with someone who's gunned down their nationals, or we piss off our only ally in the middle east - and risk completely destabalizing the place if Isreal feels like they've been cut off from their last insurance policy against an all-out attack from the people who want to get all jihad on their asses but aren't willing to bring down the wrath of the waning superpower on them.

That could be a clusterfuck. If we side with Turkey, Isreal could decide that with their big brother out of the picture, the only option is to go on an all-out offensive immediately, under the theory that the only way to win cat-and-mouse is not to be the mouse.

The whole mideast is a fucking clusterfuck.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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The last time Free Gaza tried this the Israelis opened fire at them and rammed them into the ship they sent was too damaged to return home. Thats kind of you know, a warning normally. I'm not really surprised they went nuts when a whole convoy was attempting to run the blockade. Blockades are only legal if they are enforced, and Free Gaza has gotten past before. International waters don't mean anything when a blockade is in effect, and you are always allowed to stop and search merchant ships in international waters in wartime anyway.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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ShadowDragon8685 wrote: Just to be a bit of a devil's advocate, what if they actually did find weapons? What if the first thing out of this mess is video footage of cargo holds filled to the brim with machine guns, RPG-7s and blocks of plastique?
I would actually find that good news because that would at least give them justification for this attack. But right now it seems like a worst case scenario for all parties involved (hell, the only ones benefitting from this attack are those Hamas assholes who got the best free PR in ages).
The best thing Israel can do right now is punishing the military commanders involved but I doubt that's going to happen any time soon.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

Post by Ritterin Sophia »

ShadowDragon, I have to ask: Are you just completely and utterly out of touch with reality?

Seriously, are you just incapable of looking at a situation without proposing complete overreactions?

There's no way Israel can do that without pulling out her nuclear stick, which is a path Israel doesn't want to go down.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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wautd wrote:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote: Just to be a bit of a devil's advocate, what if they actually did find weapons? What if the first thing out of this mess is video footage of cargo holds filled to the brim with machine guns, RPG-7s and blocks of plastique?
I would actually find that good news because that would at least give them justification for this attack. But right now it seems like a worst case scenario for all parties involved (hell, the only ones benefitting from this attack are those Hamas assholes who got the best free PR in ages).
The best thing Israel can do right now is punishing the military commanders involved but I doubt that's going to happen any time soon.
Doubt? There is no doubt. Israeli soldiers themselves pointed out that outright murders of civilians occurred in the last major offensive. Israeli PR promptly promised to "investigate" the matter and precisely jack shit happened.

Attacking a Turkish vessel was particularly fucking stupid. Turkey is one of the few states in the Middle does a lot of trade with Israel and co-operates on a strategic basis. Hell it was the first Muslim majority country to recognise Israel. Epic Fail.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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The Turkish government has recalled the Chief of the General Staff from a meeting in Egypt on emergency notice and released a formal statement calling the attack on Turkish ships in international waters an inhuman deed that will have irreversible consequences for Turkish relations with Israel. A nationalist mob has descended on the Israeli consulate in Istanbul which has had to be defended from rocks and firebombs by riot police. Death toll is reportedly now said to be at least 16.


Here's the Turkish Press source for this, including pictures of dead men on the decks of the prizes, probably smuggled out by satellite phone by those still aboard. The Israelis have seized the Turkish-flagged ships and are taking them to Haifa, which is certain to further inflame the Turks who will see it as an act of war since they were not carrying contraband and nobody will believe Israeli claims to the contrary.

Israel attacks aid convoy, killing at least 16 activists
Israel attacks aid convoy, killing at least 16 activists - Israeli naval commandos brutally attacked an international aid convoy intending to bring humanitarian supplies to the long-besieged Gaza city and killed more than a dozen civilians while the convoy was sailing on international waters.
Israeli naval commandos brutally attacked an international aid convoy intending to bring humanitarian supplies to the long-besieged Gaza city and killed more than a dozen civilians while the convoy was sailing on international waters.


Early Monday morning, as it has threatened several times as the aid flotilla set sail for Gaza, Israel intercepted the convoy of vessels carrying hundreds of activists from around the world and some 10,000 tones of humanitarian aid, possibly causing an irreversible damage to Turkish-Israeli relations, foreign ministry said in a statement released a few hours after the attack.

International community has earlier warned Israel not to engage in an offensive on civilian vessels full of peaceful activists whose aim is to break the three-year-old economic blockade on Gaza which has severely plagued its people.

Hundreds of thousands of protesters gathered in front of the Israeli consulate in İstanbul to show reaction against the violent intervention. Thousands of Gazans who were expecting a helping hand from committed civilians but later learned of the attack also gathered at the port of Gaza, carrying Palestinian flags and banners read “End to Israeli persecution.”

“We were not expecting such an operation in international waters,” Ömer Faruk Korkmaz, an official of the Humanitarian Aid Association (İHH) that led the aid shipment in Turkey said. “Israel has been caught red-handed and the international community will not forgive it.”

Korkmaz said the ship was being escorted to Haifa.

“I was expecting an intervention,” said Murat Mercan, Turkish parliamentary Foreign Affairs Commission Chairman. “I was not expecting bloodshed, the use of arms and bullets.”

“Israel is engaged in activity that will extremely hurt its image,” he said.

Turkey summoned the Israeli ambassador to the foreign ministry to discuss the incident.

“Israel has clearly indicated once again that it snubs human life and peaceful initiatives by targeting innocent civilians. We severely condemn Israel’s inhumane practices. The sorrowful incident that occurred in international waters and constitute a grave violation of international law may lead to irreversible consequences for our relations,” read the foreign ministry’s statement, adding that Israel will have to stand the consequences of its intervention.

Turkish ministers and high-level officials convened at the Prime Ministry in Ankara following the Israeli offensive. Deputy Prime Minister Bülent Arınc, Interior Minister Beşir Atalay, Prime Ministry Undersecretary Efkan Ala, General Staff Operations Commander Gen. Mehmet Eröz, Naval Forces Vice Commander Adm. Nusret Güner, and bureaucrats are participating in the meeting.
It is important to remember that the attack occurred 90 nautical miles off the coast of Gaza, 78 miles into international waters.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

General Schatten wrote:ShadowDragon, I have to ask: Are you just completely and utterly out of touch with reality?

Seriously, are you just incapable of looking at a situation without proposing complete overreactions?
If you anticipate the worst, you cannot be surprised except pleasantly.
There's no way Israel can do that without pulling out her nuclear stick, which is a path Israel doesn't want to go down.
I was implying that they'd do the thing in the world that would make Shep happiest, yes.

Really, what would you do were you in their position, surrounded on literally all sides by people who hate you and want to see you, in their words, "driven into the sea," and the world's biggest power, arguably the only power with enough might to throw around to keep those peoples in check, suddenly pulled it's seemingly unending support from you after you put them into a choice between siding with you or siding with one of their other allies?

I wouldn't want to wait to be attacked, personally. In fact, I might think a first strike would be looking to be a really good option at that point. I'd start thinking back to the seven days' war and how I'd creamed everybody and advanced so fast that in the end I had to give most of it back because I could take it and nothing could stop me, but I didn't have the manpower to hold it.

And I'd start thinking about how this time there won't be a superpower to step in, tell everyone else that they got their asses beat, now sit down, take your land back and play nice. Then I'd start eyeing all the nukes that superpower gave me, remembering how many of those powers on my doorstep who don't like me are known to have been trying to get nukes of their own, and start thinking about whether it's better to start making glass craters before or after they make one of Tel Aviv.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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And yet again my tax dollars go to support the murderous cartel that infests Tel Aviv like a cancer.
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Re: Israeli forces attack humanitarian convoy in intl. water

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VT-16 wrote:
Highlord Laan wrote:"Blockade runners get stopped cold after being warned"

More at 11.
International waters is now Israeli territory? Huh, news to me.
Why not? Congress is thousands of miles away and it's Israeli territory.

The Turkish government has recalled the Chief of the General Staff from a meeting in Egypt on emergency notice and released a formal statement calling the attack on Turkish ships in international waters an inhuman deed that will have irreversible consequences for Turkish relations with Israel. A nationalist mob has descended on the Israeli consulate in Istanbul which has had to be defended from rocks and firebombs by riot police. Death toll is reportedly now said to be at least 16.


Here's the Turkish Press source for this, including pictures of dead men on the decks of the prizes, probably smuggled out by satellite phone by those still aboard. The Israelis have seized the Turkish-flagged ships and are taking them to Haifa, which is certain to further inflame the Turks who will see it as an act of war since they were not carrying contraband and nobody will believe Israeli claims to the contrary.
Yeah, yeah, yeah...

What exactly is the Turkish government going to do about it? Send a strongly worded letter of protest? They don't give a greasy goat's dick and this is all for show. If they did care, they would have had warships in the area to protect their supply ships, now wouldn't they? They didn't and they don't. Until they do something, I consider their reaction so much hot air.

Come to think of it, the way the Turks handled this is WORSE than blowing hot air. The people who took part in this effort probably thought the Turkish government, by approving this mission, was going to make sure they weren't attacked -at least not on the open seas. The Turks did nothing and there's no reason to think they will in the future.
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