Obama presents BP with a bill.

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WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by SirNitram »

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(CNN) – The White House has ordered BP to fund Louisiana's plan to dredge up walls of sand along its coast to head off the massive Gulf of Mexico oil spill,
Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal announced Wednesday.
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by Alyeska »

I love how Small Government Jindal who wants to cut Federal government spending on wasteful things such as Volcano Monitoring wants Federal assistance.

Anyway, its good to see BP getting its hands forced here. I am not happy with BP. Honestly, I want them kicked out of the country. Every stock slide makes me happy.
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by Darth Fanboy »

I'd bet it is Jindal's belief that if BP pays for the damages and the cost of protecting the coast that doesn't count as "federal spending"
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by Alyeska »

So Jon Stewart just ripped BP to fucking shreds.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episod ... ne-1-2010-

Link only works in the US, sorry.

The single most important highlight.

In the last 3 years, BP has had 760 willful safety violations, per OSHA.

Sounds horrible, yes? Lets hear some more numbers for perspective.

In the last 3 years:
Sunoco, 8
Conoco Phillips, 8
Citgo, 2
Exxon, 1

Holy fucking shit. Or at Jon Stewart put it.

"Exxon could get 70 times the willful safety violations and still be 90% safer than BP."

BP can go fuck itself. It should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And after we take it for every penny we can through fines, kick it the fuck out of this country.
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by Alyeska »

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BP Cited for Worst OSHA Safety Violations Among U.S. Refiners

WASHINGTON - May 17 - Two refineries owned by oil giant BP account for 97 percent of all flagrant violations found in the refining industry by government safety inspectors over the past three years, a Center for Public Integrity analysis shows. Most of BP's citations were classified as "egregious willful" by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and reflect alleged violations of a rule designed to prevent catastrophic events at refineries.

BP is battling a massive oil well spill in the Gulf of Mexico after an April 20 platform blast that killed 11 workers. But the firm has been under intense OSHA scrutiny since its refinery in Texas City, Texas, exploded in March 2005, killing 15 workers. While continuing its probe in Texas City, OSHA launched a nationwide refinery inspection program in June 2007 in response to a series of fires, explosions and chemical releases throughout the industry.

Refinery inspection data obtained by the Center under the Freedom of Information Act for OSHA's nationwide program and for the parallel Texas City inspection show that BP received a total of 862 citations between June 2007 and February 2010 for alleged violations at its refineries in Texas City and Toledo, Ohio.

Of those, 760 were classified as "egregious willful" and 69 were classified as "willful." Thirty of the BP citations were deemed "serious" and three were unclassified. Virtually all of the citations were for alleged violations of OSHA's process safety management standard, a sweeping rule governing everything from storage of flammable liquids to emergency shutdown systems. BP accounted for 829 of the 851 willful violations among all refiners cited by OSHA during the period analyzed by the Center.

Top OSHA officials told the Center in an interview that BP was cited for more egregious willful violations than other refiners because it failed to correct the types of problems that led to the 2005 Texas City accident even after OSHA pointed them out. Jordan Barab, deputy assistant secretary of labor for occupational safety and health, said it was clear that BP "didn't go nearly far enough" to correct deficiencies after the 2005 blast.

"The only thing you can conclude is that BP has a serious, systemic safety problem in their company," Barab said.

BP officials did not respond to requests for comment about the OSHA data. BP's website said it was committed to improving safety companywide. "Creating a safe and healthy working environment is essential for our success. Since 1999, injury rates and spills have reduced by approximately 75 percent," the BP website says.

To view a list of BP's U.S. OSHA Refinery Violations, this interactive graphic can be embedded for the Web or click on the following link: http://www.publicintegrity.org/project_ ... neries.swf
Is BP trying to become cartoonishly evil here? They are starting to sound like Armacham Technology or Umbrella.
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Its nothing different then the kind of mindsets that gave us the banking crisis and ENRON. Make every last decision based on what's the most very short term profit, and totally ignore any and all possible consequences no matter how absurd the situation becomes. Employees are zero profit, you have to PAY them even! So they mean nothing. The bankers would have let people die in the server farms they keep all the money on if they thought they could save money by not having door knobs, they just didn't get the chance to go that far.
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by Psychic_Sandwich »

Is BP trying to become cartoonishly evil here? They are starting to sound like Armacham Technology or Umbrella.
More like a Captain Planet villain.
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Psychic_Sandwich wrote:
Is BP trying to become cartoonishly evil here? They are starting to sound like Armacham Technology or Umbrella.
More like a Captain Planet villain.
As a matter of fact, the first episode of captain planet consisted of Greedly and his oilman sidekick deliberately causing an oil spill
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by bobalot »

Alyeska wrote:I love how Small Government Jindal who wants to cut Federal government spending on wasteful things such as Volcano Monitoring wants Federal assistance.

Anyway, its good to see BP getting its hands forced here. I am not happy with BP. Honestly, I want them kicked out of the country. Every stock slide makes me happy.
By the way, where are all the Libertarians when it comes to disasters like these? They become suspiciously silent. It's as if they know there is a giant fucking white elephant in their ideology and if they don't want the general public making the connection.
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

bobalot wrote:
Alyeska wrote:I love how Small Government Jindal who wants to cut Federal government spending on wasteful things such as Volcano Monitoring wants Federal assistance.

Anyway, its good to see BP getting its hands forced here. I am not happy with BP. Honestly, I want them kicked out of the country. Every stock slide makes me happy.
By the way, where are all the Libertarians when it comes to disasters like these? They become suspiciously silent. It's as if they know there is a giant fucking white elephant in their ideology and if they don't want the general public making the connection.
They're tripping over themselves to write No True Scotsman Fallacies, like this duplicitous insistence of theirs on distinguishing a "true" free market from what they call "state corporatism" or some other such convenient neologism.
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by Alyeska »

And this oil spill and the OSHA violations is an example of many things we have known for years.

Even if the market will correct bad action, it can destroy billions of dollars and the lives of millions of people. Even if the market "corrects" by destroying BP, the damage BP has done, well its already fucking done. Two, this is an example of where regulation is badly needed and the LACK of sufficient regulation helped make the disaster worse.
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by Temujin »

bobalot wrote:By the way, where are all the Libertarians when it comes to disasters like these? They become suspiciously silent. It's as if they know there is a giant fucking white elephant in their ideology and if they don't want the general public making the connection.
There was a good exchange regarding this on Olbermann last night.

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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by Stark »

Alyeska wrote:And this oil spill and the OSHA violations is an example of many things we have known for years.

Even if the market will correct bad action, it can destroy billions of dollars and the lives of millions of people. Even if the market "corrects" by destroying BP, the damage BP has done, well its already fucking done. Two, this is an example of where regulation is badly needed and the LACK of sufficient regulation helped make the disaster worse.
Arguably those regulations created the sense that it was already 'corrected' and thus perpetrated the mindset where nothing like this would happen in the minds of decision-makers; in a 'lol free market' the decision-makers would be constantly paranoid about disaster.

Except they wouldn't, because they'd know they can just jump ship to another company. OOPS. :D
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by JME2 »

Alyeska wrote:Is BP trying to become cartoonishly evil here? They are starting to sound like Armacham Technology or Umbrella.
You forgot Weyland-Yutani.

Seriously, 760 violations in 3 years? Jesus Christ...
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

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JME2 wrote:Seriously, 760 violations in 3 years? Jesus Christ...
That's just the 'egregious willful' level violations.
Refinery inspection data obtained by the Center under the Freedom of Information Act for OSHA's nationwide program and for the parallel Texas City inspection show that BP received a total of 862 citations between June 2007 and February 2010 for alleged violations at its refineries in Texas City and Toledo, Ohio.
Emphasis added. Note, also, that this is the safety violations at two of their refineries and doesn't cover their oil rigs. I'm not sure if OSHA has produced any numbers for rig safety (presumably, but where?), but given the number of violations in those refineries I wouldn't be optimistic.
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by HarrionGreyjoy »

Part of me - probably the part that will get me hired by some ethically-questionable firm - wants to point out, "Yeah, but most/all of the violations are at two refineries, that's hardly a systemic failure."

The other part can't help noticing that they managed to rack up 800+ violations in short order at two refineries, which isn't really very encouraging even given the above spin.
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

I'd be quite happy for BP to cease to trade as a company at all, but then we get into the opposing force in Whitehall who won't let a company that contributes 7% of all wealth to the FTSE go under like that (the other big hitter being Shell).

Losing that much cash from pensions at a time when the government (well, all governments) is broke will not go down well. And yet, justice needs to be done.

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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by Pelranius »

Admiral Valdemar wrote:I'd be quite happy for BP to cease to trade as a company at all, but then we get into the opposing force in Whitehall who won't let a company that contributes 7% of all wealth to the FTSE go under like that (the other big hitter being Shell).

Losing that much cash from pensions at a time when the government (well, all governments) is broke will not go down well. And yet, justice needs to be done.

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How much damage would be caused to the financial markets and pension funds by simply breaking up BP? I imagine the company has a lot of assets that can be used as the base of operations for smaller successor companies, or the operations could be sold to somewhat more 'responsible' corporate entities.
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

I don't think the US gov't will be successful breaking up BP like that. There are many small specialist and holding companies that make up what we know as BP, so pinning the blame on BP Exploration, wouldn't necessarily mean BP as a whole goes down. They have enough cash to wrangle in court over this for millennia without some new legislation, and anyway, the trade takes place in The City. As I say, good luck getting Cameron to commit economic seppuku in his first year by tackling BP on their home turf.
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by Broomstick »

The Spartan wrote:
JME2 wrote:Seriously, 760 violations in 3 years? Jesus Christ...
That's just the 'egregious willful' level violations.
Refinery inspection data obtained by the Center under the Freedom of Information Act for OSHA's nationwide program and for the parallel Texas City inspection show that BP received a total of 862 citations between June 2007 and February 2010 for alleged violations at its refineries in Texas City and Toledo, Ohio.
Emphasis added. Note, also, that this is the safety violations at two of their refineries and doesn't cover their oil rigs. I'm not sure if OSHA has produced any numbers for rig safety (presumably, but where?), but given the number of violations in those refineries I wouldn't be optimistic.
OK, folks - remember, that's JUST Texas City and Toledo - there were still more violations in their Northwest Indiana refinery and that's just the ones I know about, living nearby. Repeat - the numbers listed are JUST for two cities, out of all the locations BP owns facilities.

In other words - it's worse than you think.
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Re: WH to BP: Pay up for Lousiana Dredging.

Post by Darth Holbytlan »

Alyeska wrote:So Jon Stewart just ripped BP to fucking shreds.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episod ... ne-1-2010-

Link only works in the US, sorry.
It doesn't even work in the US—it just goes to the latest episode. I think Comedy Central fucked up their own link. Here is a working link.
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Obama presents BP with a bill.

Post by SirNitram »

No, not a law. A bill for them to pay.

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NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The Obama administration has sent a $69 million bill to BP for the U.S. government's efforts to help deal with the energy company's oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

The current $69 million bill accounts for 75% of what BP owes to date, and the company has until July 1 to pay the full amount, an administration official said Thursday.

The Obama administration will bill BP regularly for costs related to the spill, according to the Deepwater Horizon Unified Command, which is the government and industry task force managing the spill response.

"As a responsible party, BP (BP) is financially responsible for all costs associated with the response to the spill," the task force said.

The bill was also sent to Transocean, Andarko, Moex Offshore and QBE Underwriting, a copy of the bill obtained by CNN showed.

Included in the bill sent to BP was a $29 million charge for Federal agencies to operate ships, aircraft and boats to monitor environmental damage and another $29 million charge for the activation and deployment of the National Guard, an administration official said.

BP owes $7 million for removal operations and other environmental assessment efforts and $4 million for the Department of Defense's removal efforts and operation of ships and aircraft.

The money received from BP will help to regularly replenish the $1.5 billion Oil Liability Trust Fund that covers damage costs associated with oil spills, according to the statement.

BP's leaking oil well in the Gulf of Mexico has been gushing an estimated 19,000 barrels a day since April 20. Earlier this week, the company said its latest efforts to cap the leak -- the biggest in U.S. history -- had failed so far.

"The administration expects prompt payment and will take additional steps as necessary to ensure that BP and other responsible parties, not American taxpayers, pay all of the costs associated with the BP/Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill," the statement said.

The bill obtained by CNN said companies should "expect additional billings as other response costs are finalized" and warned that if BP did not pay in full, interest would be applied.
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Re: Obama presents BP with a bill.

Post by Broomstick »

I'm trying to imagine it actually getting paid. I'm finding that difficult, but I'm still an optimist for some stupid reason.
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Re: Obama presents BP with a bill.

Post by Psychic_Sandwich »

I dunno. There could potentially be enough anger at BP for being idiots that Obama could get away with revoking their license to operate in the US. 'Pay or leave' seems like a pretty good motivation.
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Re: Obama presents BP with a bill.

Post by Zixinus »

To second Broomstick, the true will behind this bill will be revealed come July. Until then, its just a gesture.

But really, just as a gesture, it really feels good to read it. It's saying that "Did you really think that we helped you for free after what you did? Do you think that you'll get away by creating more work for me? No, you broke it, you pay for it."
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