GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

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GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by SirNitram »

Nolan's Letter to Constituents: Part 1 Part 2

Choice lowlights of the cro-mag display here:
As a side note in Nevada, approximately 42% of all teens ages 12-16, admit to having had intercourse, about 25% of them admit to having multiple partners.(Council of Chief of State Schools Officers), Is it right? NO! Is it right for adults to engage in sex with minors? NO! But sadly, it is happening, and that’s the fact.

Knowing this young lady, reading the case and observing her behavior before and after the incident, I am compelled to believe the sex was consensual. She was very sexually active and, according to court records, had an abortion just two weeks prior to the alleged sexual assault (this is now public record). Was it right? NO!
'She's had sex, therefore I know she must've wanted it.'
I made two calls to the woman pleading with her to talk to me and offering to assist in getting the help she needed to stand up to her father and regain custody of her children. They went unanswered, I left a third message implying "someone" could compensate her if she would tell the truth "about what was going on". The Nevada Legislative Counsel Bureau Legal Division issued a written legal opinion which stated clearly, this did not constitute "attempted bribery"! These allegations are just plain lies!
See? I was offering bribes. I just wanted her to tell the truth as I see it, and there'd be money. TOTALLY DIFFERENT.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Aaron »

At this point we may as well just roll all these articles into a "Republicans are Assholes" thread, with a moronic, racist or just otherwise offensive statement weekly, it's really only news when one isn't.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Serafina »

Soo, let me get this straight:
A politican publically says that it's a womans fault if she get's raped, and he doesn't get kicked out of his office?!
Honestly, the politcal system of the USA manges to amaze and horrify me again and again.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Zed »

That's not what the man said.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Serafina »

Zed wrote:That's not what the man said.
Saying?
Perhaps not - but heavily implying:
Knowing this young lady, reading the case and observing her behavior before and after the incident, I am compelled to believe the sex was consensual. She was very sexually active and, according to court records, had an abortion just two weeks prior to the alleged sexual assault (this is now public record). Was it right? NO!
Heck, such moral relativism ("both are equally evil!") alone should get him kicked out of whatever office he holds.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Zed »

It's combined with a positive appraisal of the character of a friend of his family - in other words, he's inclined to take the word of a friend of his above the word of somebody he doesn't know. He hasn't said it's a woman's fault if she gets raped, he's said that the woman wasn't actually raped, but has consented and is now lying about it.

Due to his emotional involvement in the case, I wouldn't look too harshly on what he says - or rather, I wouldn't have, if it wasn't followed up by this weird offering of money.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Alphawolf55 »

Does anyone know the specifics of the rape accusation or is everyone just going "GOP STATE SENATOR DOESN'T BELIEVE GIRL WAS RAPED AND THUS BELIEVES RAPING GIRLS IS OKAY!"
I mean girls do lie about getting raped, maybe the specifics should be addressed first before making a judgement.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Einzige »

Hilarious, and hilariously typical. The Republicans really don't know what to do in such a situation: they know that personal responsibility applies to this as in all situations, placing the onus on the perpetrator, and yet they must still appease the reactionary theocrats braying to impose their morality on everyone else. And, as in all things, they will eventually make up their mind to sell out like the whores they are to the social conservatives.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Samuel »

Well, looking at the letter is appears he appeared as a character witness in the case and is now being attacked for defending his friend. So I can see why he is a bit pissed.

Still, 16 years old? If his friend is the same age as he is (49)... you don't have sex with people a third of your age. What was he thinking if it was consentual?
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Oskuro »

Samuel wrote:you don't have sex with people a third of your age minors.
There, unless you're advocating that conseting adults of whatever age shouldn't have sex if they want to.

As for the statements, even if the case turns out to be the girl lying or somesuch, it doesn't matter much. A politician should be careful about what he says and how he says it, since he's not only talking for himself, he's representing his party and the voters behind it. Of course these statements are, at times, totally intentional.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by SirNitram »

Alphawolf55 wrote:Does anyone know the specifics of the rape accusation or is everyone just going "GOP STATE SENATOR DOESN'T BELIEVE GIRL WAS RAPED AND THUS BELIEVES RAPING GIRLS IS OKAY!"
I mean girls do lie about getting raped, maybe the specifics should be addressed first before making a judgement.
I think the offer of money to change her story kind of makes it clear. Plus, this guy is reacting as a friend of this guy; he isn't being impartial and considering that.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Night_stalker »

Cpl Kendall wrote:At this point we may as well just roll all these articles into a "Republicans are Assholes" thread, with a moronic, racist or just otherwise offensive statement weekly, it's really only news when one isn't.
I agree, maybe have the thread branch off the hall of shame...

Anyway, this senator is definetly NOT getting re-elected, thanks to his idiocity. Honestly, how the hell did he ever get elected anyway?
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Meh, he is a douchebag, and a fucking asshole, and all I'm going to do about it is think to myself and say what an asshole he is, but I really wonder in the big picture if these vulgar, emotionalist threads about marginal people like some Republican local committee douche or state senator (aren't there on the order of literally thousands and thousands of these in the country? I'm surprised a couple aren't almost Nazis at that scale) are really news worthy in a global forum on global current events. I realize the contemporary political paradigm involves people picking various things to bitch about, and then selecting here-and-there easy targets from the enemy side and organizing two minutes' hates on them, but I find it rather droll. It'd be easier to care if these threads were at least packaged together with a call to action, like call his campaign here, blah blah, rather than just self-congratulatory "look how much this marginal dude sucks."
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by fgalkin »

Samuel wrote:Well, looking at the letter is appears he appeared as a character witness in the case and is now being attacked for defending his friend. So I can see why he is a bit pissed.

Still, 16 years old? If his friend is the same age as he is (49)... you don't have sex with people a third of your age. What was he thinking if it was consentual?
Google is your friend!
NV senator leaves message to rape victim's sister

(AP) – May 27, 2010

CARSON CITY, Nev. — A Nevada state senator says he wasn't intending to bribe a rape victim's sister when he left her a message suggesting it could be "financially beneficial" if she told the truth.

Republican Sen. Dennis Nolan acknowledges making the May 19 call but says he just wanted to coax the woman to meet with him so he could wear a "wire" and record what she said.

The rape case involved a friend of the senator, Gordon Lawes. The 28-year-old was convicted in 2008 of raping the 16-year-old girl, and he was sentenced to life in prison with possible parole after 10 years.

The Las Vegas Review-Journal reported about the voicemail message Thursday. Nolan told the newspaper he believed the sister would say the sex Lawes had with the girl was consensual.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by PhatMaus »

I've generally been content to lurk around, but this really got under my skin, so this is my first post.

Reading into the case i saw no actual evidence of rape, it was basically he says-she says. They both say that they had sex, they disagree on whether or not it was consensual. There is no other evidence one way or another. In cases like these, the woman's past sexual history IS valid evidence. If she has a proven history of riding the Cock Carousel, chances are she jumped in willingly. This is NOT "blaming the victim", it's evidence that the victim may be lying her ass off in the first place and it's a damn shame that Feminists convinced Western Governments to disallow a woman's past sexual history as evidence. In any other criminal case, where there is no hard evidence and the case has to be judged based on deciding which of the the two parties giving is lying, and any circumstantial evidence not directly related to the case at hand that establishes/diminishes the credibility of the testimony is perfectly acceptable, but rape is apparently "not like other crimes" as the feminists like to say.

I would suggest, to the army of self righteous defenders of women's purity on this thread, that they google "false rape accusation". There are hundred's of well documented cases of women accusing me of rape for inane reasons such as: not paying a cab fare, making her boyfriend feel sorry for her, making her friends feel sorry for her, because she was depressed, to get revenge,etc.. In all these cases, the men were first arrested, vilified by the media and then when proven innocent by hard evidence(video in most cases). Their accusers got off with a slap on the wrist instead of the decades of jail time the men were facing.(I could put up the links if you guys want, but seriously, this is from the first page of the search results.)

This case proves that in Western countries the legal system for men operates on the principle of "Guilty until proven innocent" and all you have to do to get jailed for rape is to have sex with a woman who regrets it the next morning and not have any hard evidence to prove otherwise.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Andrew_Fireborn »

Oskuro wrote:
Samuel wrote:you don't have sex with people a third of your age minors.
There, unless you're advocating that conseting adults of whatever age shouldn't have sex if they want to.
Age of consent in Nevada is 16.

Same as a good deal of the United States. Of course, that's according to an image on wikipedia.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Terralthra »

PhatMaus wrote:I've generally been content to lurk around, but this really got under my skin, so this is my first post.

Reading into the case i saw no actual evidence of rape, it was basically he says-she says. They both say that they had sex, they disagree on whether or not it was consensual. There is no other evidence one way or another. In cases like these, the woman's past sexual history IS valid evidence. If she has a proven history of riding the Cock Carousel, chances are she jumped in willingly. This is NOT "blaming the victim", it's evidence that the victim may be lying her ass off in the first place and it's a damn shame that Feminists convinced Western Governments to disallow a woman's past sexual history as evidence. In any other criminal case, where there is no hard evidence and the case has to be judged based on deciding which of the the two parties giving is lying, and any circumstantial evidence not directly related to the case at hand that establishes/diminishes the credibility of the testimony is perfectly acceptable, but rape is apparently "not like other crimes" as the feminists like to say.

I would suggest, to the army of self righteous defenders of women's purity on this thread, that they google "false rape accusation". There are hundred's of well documented cases of women accusing me of rape for inane reasons such as: not paying a cab fare, making her boyfriend feel sorry for her, making her friends feel sorry for her, because she was depressed, to get revenge,etc.. In all these cases, the men were first arrested, vilified by the media and then when proven innocent by hard evidence(video in most cases). Their accusers got off with a slap on the wrist instead of the decades of jail time the men were facing.(I could put up the links if you guys want, but seriously, this is from the first page of the search results.)

This case proves that in Western countries the legal system for men operates on the principle of "Guilty until proven innocent" and all you have to do to get jailed for rape is to have sex with a woman who regrets it the next morning and not have any hard evidence to prove otherwise.
"She likes having sex, therefore she probably wanted to have sex this time too, even though she says she didn't"? You are effectively taking a prior history of liking sex and using it to impeach the (alleged) victim's honesty. I don't see how this at all follows. The only way this could make any sense is if you think that a woman having and liking sex is a moral failing, in which case, please stop ruining it for the rest of us who like having sex with women.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Eleas »

PhatMaus wrote:I've generally been content to lurk around, but this really got under my skin, so this is my first post.

Reading into the case i saw no actual evidence of rape, it was basically he says-she says.
Statistically putting it on equal level with most actual cases of rape, in other words.
They both say that they had sex, they disagree on whether or not it was consensual. There is no other evidence one way or another. In cases like these, the woman's past sexual history IS valid evidence. If she has a proven history of riding the Cock Carousel, chances are she jumped in willingly.
This is astounding. "Proven history" of "riding the Cock Carousel"? If I am to interpret this to mean "fucking" - as it was apparently intended - we can boil down your method of adjudication as follows: should a woman claim she was raped and this is then denied by the accused, check if she's ever had sex before. If she has, she must be presumed to have consented this time as well.
This is NOT "blaming the victim",
Of course it is. It puts the responsibility on the (presumptive) victim to prove she's led a pure and chaste life, thus holding her to a ludicrous standard, all in order to prove that she did not deserve sexual abuse this time around.
incoherent moron wrote:blah blah feminists misandry waaaah self righteous defenders of women's purity hurff hurff
I see.
There are hundred's of well documented cases of women accusing me of rape for inane reasons
You know, this doesn't really surprise me.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Oskuro »

Andrew_Fireborn wrote:Age of consent in Nevada is 16.[/url]
I was poking fun at the absolute nature of Samuel's statement, not questioning the legality of the current article. In any case, Sex and Consent are very tricky issues, and any adult, no matter how old, should be very careful when attempting such a relationship.

(Damn Eleas and his quick posting :D )
PhatMaus wrote:In cases like these, the woman's past sexual history IS valid evidence.
So you're essentially equating liking sex to reprehensible behavior, and advocating that women who enjoy sex be placed in a legally weak position. And of course this will not lead, at all, to the further stigmatization of female sexuality, to women thus hiding and even being ashamed of their past, to self-righteous bigots claiming that the law justifies their medieval ideas, and more importantly, it will most certainly no lead to actual rapists targeting promiscuous women due to their weakened credibility, right?

The crime in rape is not the sex, the crime is the "being forced to". Would you claim that a man who is known to love food should be more easily disregarded when he claims someone forced him to eat against his will until he suffered internal damage? Or someone who likes to drive and is forced, at gunpoint, to drive a criminal away from a crime scene, obviously his love for driving made it easier for him to consent to that.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Morilore »

[benefit of the doubt]

Well, falsely accusing someone of rape is a legitimately terrible thing to do. (Although I should point out that it's possible to have a he-said/she-said where neither party is actually lying, if they have different recollections of the incident.) However, a history of liking sex is no circumstantial evidence at all here, because, uh, nearly 100% of the adult human race likes sex and will have it more or less frequently, including the women. A good piece of circumstantial evidence in this case would be a history of false or groundless rape accusations, for instance, or similar forms of malicious dishonesty.

[/benefit of the doubt]
PhatMaus wrote:If she has a proven history of riding the Cock Carousel, chances are she jumped in willingly.
Newsflash: Your mother has "a proven history of riding the Cock Carousel." Stop being an asshole.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Zed »

Eleas wrote:Of course it is. It puts the responsibility on the (presumptive) victim to prove she's led a pure and chaste life, thus holding her to a ludicrous standard, all in order to prove that she did not deserve sexual abuse this time around.
It puts the responsibility on the accuser to prove that she was raped. PhatMaus says some strange things - i.e. about 'evil feminists' -, but the point remains that 'my word versus your word' shouldn't suffice to condemn a man for rape. There should be evidence that the intercourse was involuntary. Otherwise, we've moved from presumption of innocence to presumption of guilt.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Eleas »

Zed wrote:
Eleas wrote:Of course it is. It puts the responsibility on the (presumptive) victim to prove she's led a pure and chaste life, thus holding her to a ludicrous standard, all in order to prove that she did not deserve sexual abuse this time around.
It puts the responsibility on the accuser to prove that she was raped.
Well no, no it doesn't. That's where it fails miserably. In fact, you can't go from "she has a lot of sex" to "so she was probably willing this time, too" unless you actually believe a woman who has a lot of sex with other people automatically consents to having sex with this specific one.

You might as well point to an accused murderer's military career. After all, that person is obviously willing to kill at the drop of a hat, right?
PhatMaus says some strange things - i.e. about 'evil feminists' -, but the point remains that 'my word versus your word' shouldn't suffice to condemn a man for rape.
And, to be blunt, it generally isn't sufficient at all. That is, if we are to believe the statistics, rather than the fearmongering and barely suppressed reactionary bullshit that always accompanies this particular discourse.
There should be evidence that the intercourse was involuntary. Otherwise, we've moved from presumption of innocence to presumption of guilt.
Yes, of course. I have yet to see a statistically significant tendency toward that effect, however. And I speak as someone who's actually familiar with the matter on a personal level.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Zed »

I'll cede the point - I was assuming that the factual claims PhatMaus made were true.
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Re: GOP State Senator blames rape victim.

Post by Serafina »

I've generally been content to lurk around, but this really got under my skin, so this is my first post.
Great. Then you should now that we will apply harsh scrutiny to this.
Reading into the case i saw no actual evidence of rape, it was basically he says-she says.
Congratulations. You just described a majority of all rape cases.
They both say that they had sex, they disagree on whether or not it was consensual. There is no other evidence one way or another.
While eyewitness-testimony is weak evidence, it is still evidence.
In cases like these, the woman's past sexual history IS valid evidence.
Ok - this is what get's under MY skin.
Because - NO, IT'S NOT. A claim from a woman who is chaste and one who has a lot of sexual experience should NOT be treated differenty.
Unless you can show us that there is a statistical difference between the two.

So here's your job: Look up such a statistic. Then analyze it to show that it says that her claim has less credibility.
Or, at least, give us an actual explanation how it is supposed to work.
If she has a proven history of riding the Cock Carousel, chances are she jumped in willingly.
So what?
Honestly, so what?! Do you think that does mean it wasn't rape?
I know at least one woman who willingly went with a man to fuck him, and then got drugged and raped.
This is NOT "blaming the victim", it's evidence that the victim may be lying her ass off in the first place and it's a damn shame that Feminists convinced Western Governments to disallow a woman's past sexual history as evidence.
Explain why it should matter. You have presented no evidence that she is lying.
In any other criminal case, where there is no hard evidence and the case has to be judged based on deciding which of the the two parties giving is lying, and any circumstantial evidence not directly related to the case at hand that establishes/diminishes the credibility of the testimony is perfectly acceptable, but rape is apparently "not like other crimes" as the feminists like to say.
It is far more traumatic than most others. Quite often, the victim and criminal also have a vastly different social status - as in this case. Besides, it's not like an accusation is automatically enough for conviction - at least in germany.
would suggest, to the army of self righteous defenders of women's purity on this thread, that they google "false rape accusation".
Oh, wow, what a revelation. If only i had known that people could lie :roll:
There are hundred's of well documented cases of women accusing me of rape for inane reasons such as: not paying a cab fare, making her boyfriend feel sorry for her, making her friends feel sorry for her, because she was depressed, to get revenge,etc.
Hundreds of cases - compared to how many real rapes?
Furthermore - can you present a motive why she should be lying? Because that's something that should be taken into account!
Their accusers got off with a slap on the wrist instead of the decades of jail time the men were facing.(I could put up the links if you guys want, but seriously, this is from the first page of the search results.)
If you can't even present your own evidence, you are either a liar or an idiot.
Besides - false charges should be a serious offense. If they are not in your legal system, complain about that.
This case proves that in Western countries the legal system for men operates on the principle of "Guilty until proven innocent" and all you have to do to get jailed for rape is to have sex with a woman who regrets it the next morning and not have any hard evidence to prove otherwise.
Bollocks.
Bullshit.
Lies.
Idiocy.
This is simply not true.
In nearly all cases where someone is falsely accused of rape, it is quite recent after the crime. Which means that you can find traces if you do an exam. Which shows wether she was raped or not. So there you have hard evidence that easily prevents such things.
Failings to use such evidence are a failing of your legal systen, but not related to your complaint.


Furthermore - well, this is somewhat of an appeal to emotion, but not just that.
I guess you have never met an actual rape victim. I know at least three (and others where i suspect it, but she doesn't want to talk about it). It is one of the most traumatic experiences possible. That alone justifies lessened scrutiny for the possible victim.
And no one WANT'S to be raped. The sheer notion that sexually active behaviour indicates such is ludicrous.


A word of warning, since you are new:
Back up your claim (that being sexually active makes one prone to lying about being a rape victim).
I let you off easy for now - proove it, and you have an argument.
But if you do not do that, i will rip your posts to tiny shreds and push them up your ass until your intestines bleed.
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