Seattle Cop Punches Girl in Face

[Flagg]

Northwest Cable News

Seattle police respond to videotape of officer punching woman

by ROBERTA ROMERO / KING 5 News

NWCN.com

Posted on June 15, 2010 at 12:39 PM

Updated today at 1:07 PM

SEATTLE – Seattle police are now talking about the incident that was caught on camera of an officer punching a teenage girl in the face. The video comes only months after Seattle police came under heavy criticism for another video showing police officers stomping on a man.

Seattle police say it all started Monday afternoon after an officer observed four women jaywalking across Martin Luther King Junior Way South in Seattle's Rainier Valley.

When the officer attempted to stop them, voices and tensions escalated. The officer was attempting to handcuff a 19-year-old woman when her 17-year-old friend tried to intervene. In the video, you can see the 17-year-old push the officer. That's when the officer pulls back his arm and punches the 17-year-old in the face.

As a crowd of people gathered around the officer and teens, a man who heard them argue pulled out his camera and videotaped the incident. He later distributed the tape to local media.

Once the tape hit the air, Seattle Police Department Deputy Chief Nick Metz said police took a look at the tape and it did raise some serious concerns.

"You obviously have to take into context everything that occurred from the point that the officer did make contact with the individuals until the situation ended. As I said before, we have some concerns about the tactics the officer used and employed at the time. Again, we did feel what occurred did deserve a review by the Office of Professional Accountability," said Metz.

Eventually the officer managed to handcuff the first suspect as well as the girl he punched. The 19-year-old woman was booked into King County Jail for obstructing an officer. The 17-year-old girl, who was punched, was taken to the Youth Service Center for investigation of assault on an officer. Both females were cited for jaywalking.

"I think if the young women involved had just cooperated with the officer, I can't say what the officer's actions would have been - whether he intended to cite them or if he intended to just give them a verbal warning - it certainly would not have escalated to where it did. These women do have to bear much of the responsibility in the altercation that occurred," said Metz.

KING 5 News talked with one of the young women involved in the incident. She said she was scared and did not want to appear on camera.

The 19-year-old involved has been arrested before and was accused of assaulting an officer, but that charge was dismissed.

Police have launched an investigation into the incident. The Seattle police officer involved, Ofc. Ian Walsh, was hired on the force in November of 2006. He has been transferred to a training facility to go over training tactics.

This punching incident comes less than two months after another video sparked outraged against Seattle police officers. In that video, two cops are seen stomping on a robbery suspect. One of the officers used racially charged language against the Latino man, who was later freed while other men were arrested. That case is still under investigation.

I gotta be honest, watching the video... I might have punched the bitch, too. I mean it was one officer against 2 assailants and if it had been 2 men no one would have said jack shit.

[CaptainChewbacca]

She put her hands on a police officer in an act of aggression, he's trained to react in certain ways.

[ArmorPierce]

Cop was apprehending person and they were resisting and shoved him. I don't see anything wrong with punching her.

Now here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbM4Dqn4MfA I see something wrong with definitely.

[Temujin]

While the girls were obviously stupid for acting like obnoxious bitches, the officer should have called in back up rather than try dealing with this alone.

It's still hard to believe this happened all over some fucking jaywalking.

[Flagg]

While the girls were obviously stupid for acting like obnoxious bitches, the officer should have called in back up rather than try dealing with this alone.

I'm unaware of whether he did or not. I'd assume that calling for backup in that situation with just one combatant would be SOP. In any case, he was defending himself from an attacker when he threw the punch as far as I'm concerned. What's pissing me off is that the cops are doing the usual mealy mouthed BS that they do when they're clearly in the wrong in a case where they are clearly right.

It's still hard to believe this happened all over some fucking jaywalking.

It really is, but if the cop was making a lawful stop and someone attacked them, what are they supposed to do?

[Kamakazie Sith]

While the girls were obviously stupid for acting like obnoxious bitches, the officer should have called in back up rather than try dealing with this alone.

It's still hard to believe this happened all over some fucking jaywalking.

Backup may not have been available. A jaywalking stop is a pedestrian stop and it is the equivalent of a traffic stop which are conducted by lone officers all the time.

This entire situation is stupid. It is also entirely the fault of the two girls. Was punching this girl in the face excessive? I don't think so unless he broke her jaw or caused serious bodily injury. However, watching the video we can see he only hit her once and that action accomplished the goal. If he would have turned around and punched the other girl in the face for attacking him from behind I would have been OK with that too.

[Alphawolf55]

Punching a 17 year old girl in the face because she pushed you is not justified. You don't punch someone in the face in any situation just cause they push you especially when there's clearly such a size difference.

Putting her to the ground and hand cuffing her would have had the same effect and been more appriopiate.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Punching a 17 year old girl in the face because she pushed you is not justified. You don't punch someone in the face in any situation just cause they push you especially when there's clearly such a size difference.

Style over substance. Again, did she suffer grave injuries due to being punched in the face? If not, then you have no argument.

Putting her to the ground and hand cuffing her would have had the same effect and been more appriopiate.

No doubt you came to this conclusion from your in depth experience in hand to hand combat. While this isn't a bad solution dropping someone on concrete is also bound to induce injuries. What if she smacked her head off the concrete?

[SCRawl]

I just don't see what has everyone so up in arms about this. Maybe the shot to the face was a little over the top, but there's no way it was some kind of "massive escalation" in terms of use of force. (I'm not a law enforcement professional, though, so my opinion is little more than just a lay opinion.) The rule is that you do what the officer tells you to do, and if you don't, there are consequences, of which some are very abrupt.

[Alphawolf55]

Punching a 17 year old girl in the face because she pushed you is not justified. You don't punch someone in the face in any situation just cause they push you especially when there's clearly such a size difference.

Style over substance. Again, did she suffer grave injuries due to being punched in the face? If not, then you have no argument.

Putting her to the ground and hand cuffing her would have had the same effect and been more appriopiate.

No doubt you came to this conclusion from your in depth experience in hand to hand combat. While this isn't a bad solution dropping someone on concrete is also bound to induce injuries. What if she smacked her head off the concrete?

If in any other situation a guy punched a girl in the face because she pushed him, no one would be supporting him. If a woman called you up and said "My husband is abusing me" and she wasn't too bruised but her husband was like "Yeah I punched her, she pushed me I was defending myself" would you side with him?

Again she's a 17 year old girl, overpowering her is not a difficulty, I'm a fairly big guy and whenever someone much smaller then me, male or female pushes me I give them a warning and if they don't listen. I carefully restrain them until they agree to stop.

[Kamakazie Sith]

If in any other situation a guy punched a girl in the face because she pushed him, no one would be supporting him. If a woman called you up and said "My husband is abusing me" and she wasn't too bruised but her husband was like "Yeah I punched her, she pushed me I was defending myself" would you side with him?

If I responded on a domestic and a video showed the wife attacking her husband and he punched her in the face to stop the attack then I would arrest her for being the prodominate aggressor. However, like the cop if the husband broke his wifes jaw defending himself then I would arrest both. Her for starting it and him for using unreasonable force.

Again she's a 17 year old girl, overpowering her is not a difficulty, I'm a fairly big guy and whenever someone much smaller then me, male or female pushes me I give them a warning and if they don't listen. I carefully restrain them until they agree to stop.

And he was trying to do that. Didn't you watch the video? Did you not see how he was trying to overpower her and then the second girl came in and assaulted him.

So we're back to the same point AGAIN. What were her injuries? If she has a broken jaw then I'll agree with you. If her face is a little sore with slight bruising then I'm sorry he was well within his rights.

[Phantasee]

I remember a cop doing it RIGHT just like Alphawolf suggested. It was here in Edmonton during our riots lively celebrations when the Oilers were making their Cup run. Girl ended up with her face in the concrete, some facial bruising.

The reason I mention it? Because a bunch of people got up in arms about "excessive force" used by the police. Oops!

[Alphawolf55]

Then you're very unique, most cops at least on the east would not only immediately arrest the man but even if the man didn't do anything and initiated the call would arrest both.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with the cops use of force at all, he was clearly in the right when it came to detaining the suspects (granted why he went after a jaywalking incident is beyond me I know it's against the law but it's just so petty). No one thinks the two girls did anything right, I'm merely disagreeing with his use in punching her in the face, since there was a good opportunity before he punched her in the face when he grabbed his arm to merely get her other arm and press her against the car. Granted, heat of the moment it might've not occured to him, also he might have not broken her jaw but he could've. We don't merely criticize for what happens but what could easily happen. I don't think the guy should lose his job over the whole thing but he could have handled it far better.

Also Phantese people are always going to say excessive force when the police do anyhting. Doesn't change the fact that in certain circumstances there are appriopiate actions and unapprioiate.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Then you're very unique, most cops at least on the east would not only immediately arrest the man but even if the man didn't do anything and initiated the call would arrest both.

I'm calling bullshit on this. The domestic violence training my department uses is pretty standard nation wide and you don't always arrest the male. You identify the predominate aggressor based off of statements, witnesses, and evidence. Then you make your arrest. Your impression sounds like one formed by someone that doesn't know what they're talking about...

Again, I'm not disagreeing with the cops use of force at all, he was clearly in the right when it came to detaining the suspects (granted why he went after a jaywalking incident is beyond me I know it's against the law but it's just so petty). No one thinks the two girls did anything right, I'm merely disagreeing with his use in punching her in the face, since there was a good opportunity before he punched her in the face when he grabbed his arm to merely get her other arm and press her against the car.

Why are you disagreeing with him punching her in the face? Your other solutions either risk the same amount of injuries or worse, were already being tried, or are simply unrealistic. I mean you did watch the video? You did see how he tried to pin the first girl up against the car, right?

Granted, heat of the moment it might've not occured to him, also he might have not broken her jaw but he could've. We don't merely criticize for what happens but what could easily happen. I don't think the guy should lose his job over the whole thing but he could have handled it far better.

I think he handled it just fine. I also don't think him breaking her jaw or causing serious injuries was a substantial risk if he had control over his actions.

[Flagg]

Punching a 17 year old girl in the face because she pushed you is not justified. You don't punch someone in the face in any situation just cause they push you especially when there's clearly such a size difference.

Style over substance. Again, did she suffer grave injuries due to being punched in the face? If not, then you have no argument.

Putting her to the ground and hand cuffing her would have had the same effect and been more appriopiate.

No doubt you came to this conclusion from your in depth experience in hand to hand combat. While this isn't a bad solution dropping someone on concrete is also bound to induce injuries. What if she smacked her head off the concrete?

If in any other situation a guy punched a girl in the face because she pushed him, no one would be supporting him. If a woman called you up and said "My husband is abusing me" and she wasn't too bruised but her husband was like "Yeah I punched her, she pushed me I was defending myself" would you side with him?

Again she's a 17 year old girl, overpowering her is not a difficulty, I'm a fairly big guy and whenever someone much smaller then me, male or female pushes me I give them a warning and if they don't listen. I carefully restrain them until they agree to stop.

You're so full of shit your eyes are brown. There's no way in hell a lone officer is able to completely restrain 2 girls in that situation without using some kind of force to neutralize one of them. Punching the bitch in the face seemed to work out pretty well since after that he subdued both of the aggressors.

As an aside, I love how if the cop had shot pepper spray into her face or put 10k volts through her ass no one would be complaining, but because he cold-cocked her it's a big to-do.

[Ryan Thunder]

You're so full of shit your eyes are brown. There's no way in hell a lone officer is able to completely restrain 2 girls in that situation without using some kind of force to neutralize one of them. Punching the bitch in the face seemed to work out pretty well since after that he subdued both of the aggressors.

As an aside, I love how if the cop had shot pepper spray into her face or put 10k volts through her ass no one would be complaining, but because he cold-cocked her it's a big to-do.

Nah, they'd be in here saying he should've subdued her and instead of resorting to a device that uses a much-sensationalized ten thousand volts to put some harmless number of milliamps through the person.

[Dark Hellion]

A quick question to KS and other officers: I though that punching the head was generally avoided because of risks of concussion, breaking jaws/bones around the eyes, or knocking someone unconscious (and them subsequently falling to the pavement possibly cracking their skull). Is there a rule about this or is this more of a general guideline?

While hitting back against an assailant seems an appropriate escalation of force I am just curious if there is a better location to hit/technique that one could use?

[Kuroji]

Looks to me like they were both getting physical on him, and punching them back was the most efficient way to deal with them. Note also the crowd that gathered around them, if he'd done much else he might have had to worry about them going nuts too. She was asking for some kind of force, and a punch to the face is the least he could have done; I don't think her age mattered much at that point, and the fact that she's seventeen earns no sympathy points from me. Quite frankly I was more concerned when he started restraining one girl and the other was trying to get him from behind. If that had happened out here I imagine an officer would have used a taser on the second girl. Both were uncooperative throughout the entire situation, trying to twist away from him. The quote of "we saw what we saw" is not valid and does not measure up to the video evidence.

However... I want to know why the hell an officer is bothering to investigate jaywalking. Out of all the things that happened here that's the one thing that I do not understand.

[Kamakazie Sith]

A quick question to KS and other officers: I though that punching the head was generally avoided because of risks of concussion, breaking jaws/bones around the eyes, or knocking someone unconscious (and them subsequently falling to the pavement possibly cracking their skull). Is there a rule about this or is this more of a general guideline?

While hitting back against an assailant seems an appropriate escalation of force I am just curious if there is a better location to hit/technique that one could use?

It's more of a guideline because it does have risks like those that you mentioned and risks of injury to the officer. You might injure your hand because the skull is pretty strong or you might cut yourself on their teeth. However, it isn't ruled out because lawmakers and police policy makers realize a fight can be very chaotic and limiting your officers choices can have very negative consequences. Therefore, instead of saying "never do this" we're taught "you can do this but it needs to be within reason". So, as I stated before in this thread if this officer would have broken her jaw or something around the eyes then he would clearly not have been reasonable.

[Kamakazie Sith]

However... I want to know why the hell an officer is bothering to investigate jaywalking. Out of all the things that happened here that's the one thing that I do not understand.

Sometimes we get asked to step up enforcement of jaywalkers due to auto/pedestrian accidents where pedestrians just walk out whenever and wherever and end up getting hit.

[SVPD]

I should point out for the benefit of those that don't get it, that comparing this to a domestic violence incident is spurious, at best. Husbands and wives or other family relationships should not be hitting each other regardless. In this situation, however, the officer was attempting to issue a citation for jaywalking and evidently "tensions escalated". (I have a hard time imagining that the laws in Washington allow you to make a custodial arrest for jaywalking, so I imagine where the paper says "tensions escalated" they really mean "the women started doing other things we won't mention to avoid messing up our neat little attempt to make the cop punching one of them into a nig deal.")

Because the officer was issuing a lawful citation, regardless of how petty jaywalking may seem, (in most places it is, but downtown in a large city, and even in the middle of a fairly small one, it can be a serious problem with idiots running across the street wherever they damn well please. I actually saw a kid get clipped by running in front of an SUV a few weeks ago because they just couldn't bear to walk to the crosswalk in order to get to Burger King) there is no reason the girls should have been escalating tensions or physically intervening. It should be noted that the article starts out with FOUR women, two of whom aren't mentioned, and while they may not have gotten physically involved, the officer could hardly be sure they wouldn't. He was facing at least 2 physically resistant people, and his job is not to be nice to them. He should use the minimum force necessary to put a stop to resistance, but that minimum does not mean he should use insufficient force that would just drag the incident out and increase the likelyhood of injury. That doesn't limit him to just one method that he must always use regrdless of circumstances. Just because punching her looks worse does not make it an unacceptable level of force.

In any case, this is not like DV. The girls are in the wrong for turning it physical at all. They simply had no buisness or right to do so. Trying to nitpick the exact choice of techniques the cop used, especially by comparing him to just the girl he punched while ignoring the presence of the others is simply menday morning quarterbacking, and a dishonest type of it at that.

Again, jaywalking is more of a problem in urban areas with heavy traffic than it may seem initially. Especailly if pedestrian-vehicle accidents have been up, there may be an emphasis on it right now.

[Big Phil]

My suspicion is that the reason this escalated to a punch is because the officer was trying to use a minimum of force. He should have put the first girl on the ground and cuffed her, instead of trying to wrestle with her. I thought he was trying to be too gentle with the first girl, and as a result the second one got involved, and the cop ended up punching her. I thought the cop did a poor job of handling the situation in the first place, but I have no problem with him punching that second girl... it just should never have escalated to that point.

[Feil]

However... I want to know why the hell an officer is bothering to investigate jaywalking. Out of all the things that happened here that's the one thing that I do not understand.

He may have planned to give them a warning, and almost certainly no more than a traffic citation. Once somebody starts flailing at a cop after ignoring his orders to stop and receive the citation/warning, I imagine they're going to get hit with every offense the DA can pin on them, jaywalking included. If this had been an automotive stop, it would have been "all this for not using a turn signal" in stead of "all this for jaywalking."

EDIT:

"The 17-year-old girl was in court Tuesday afternoon. She is charged with jaywalking and under investigation for assaulting the officer. Prosecutors will decide charges by Thursday. The girl had visible bruises on her arm."

Bruises on her arm... from the cop trying to restrain her gently. He didn't even bruise her face.

[White Haven]

Fuck crosswalks. If I'm walking down one side of a street and I need to be on the other side of the street at some point, I look for a break in traffic. If it occurs when I'm at a crosswalk, great. If it occurs when I'm in the middle of the block, also great, because either solution results in me crossing the street without A) being killed or B) making cars stop for me while I cross the street. If I can't find a break in traffic outside of a crosswalk, then I keep walking until I get to a crosswalk. The problem isn't jaywalking, it's crossing the street without checking for breaks in traffic.

Back on-topic, however, I can't object to the use of force in this particular incident. If he was actually planning on issuing a jaywalking citation I consider the officer a bit of a tool, but the fact remains that the girls got violent with him. The blow to the face probably wasn't the best choice, but meh, not the end of the world. I doubt it was a Great Media Conspiracy at work as SV seems to think, though; more probably it was two idiot kids who took an attitude (more or less the same one I have, just more strident and violent) at the idea of a police officer punishing jaywalking. Two dumb kids, one cop who made a somewhat unwise, very un-photogenic, but legitimate blow to the face.

[Flagg]

I should point out for the benefit of those that don't get it, that comparing this to a domestic violence incident is spurious, at best. Husbands and wives or other family relationships should not be hitting each other regardless. In this situation, however, the officer was attempting to issue a citation for jaywalking and evidently "tensions escalated". (I have a hard time imagining that the laws in Washington allow you to make a custodial arrest for jaywalking, so I imagine where the paper says "tensions escalated" they really mean "the women started doing other things we won't mention to avoid messing up our neat little attempt to make the cop punching one of them into a nig deal.")

I'll assume you made an accidentally racist typo there and ignore that bit.

I do agree that the media in the area is definitely pushing a "Seattle cops are out of control and police brutality is rampant" angle on this. Every time the story has run they bring up an incident from a few weeks ago where a cop was clearly guilty of brutality on a man in handcuffs that was racially motivated (though for some reason they keep saying that calling him a "fucking Mexican" is a slur) so it's pretty transparent.