A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

THE RALLY TO RESTORE VANITY: GENERATION X CELEBRATES ITS HOMERIC STRUGGLE AGAINST LAMENESS wrote:Dispatch / October 30, 2010
THE RALLY TO RESTORE VANITY: GENERATION X CELEBRATES ITS HOMERIC STRUGGLE AGAINST LAMENESS
By Mark Ames

sanityrallysign

Maybe what’s happening in America today will seem funny to some other culture in some future time—how it happened that in the depths of America’s decline, Liberals, the great opposition to everything mean and ruthless in this culture, couldn’t muster up a get-together for anything better than a mock-in. Led by a clown.

I confess, I couldn’t hack it. I came to the rally–saw those two pastry chefs from the Mythbusters show get all the Liberal Elites to hold a post-modern human wave, an ironic human wave allowing all the self-conscious Liberal Elites to play like Real America, while salvaging their vanity because it was all ironic and post-modern… And to make sure that everyone knew they were not really human-waving but rather meta-human-waving, the Mythbusters duo deconstructed the human wave. And all the Liberal Elites smiled and laughed knowingly, because all 150,000 were in on the biggest inside-joke wankathon in American history. And that was it for me–I was outta there.

A century-old ideological movement, Liberalism: once devoted to impossible causes like ending racism and inequality, empowering the powerless, fighting against militarism, and all that silly hippie shit—now it’s been reduced to besting the other side at one-liners…and to the Liberals’ credit, they’re clearly on top. Sure there are a lot of problems out there, a lot of pressing needs—but the main thing is, the Liberals don’t look nearly as stupid as the other guys do. And if you don’t know how important that is to this generation, then you won’t understand what’s so wrong and so deeply depressing about the Jon Stewart Rally to Restore Sanity.

That’s what makes this rally so depressing and grotesque: It’s an anti-rally, a kind of mass concession speech without the speech–some kind of sick funeral party for Liberalism, in which Liberals are led, at last, by a clown. Not a figurative clown, but by a clown–and Liberals are sure that this somehow makes them smarter and less lame–and indeed, they are less lame, because they are not taking themselves too seriously, which is something they’re very, very proud of. All great political struggles and ideological advances, all great human rights achievements were won by clown-led crowds of people who don’t take themselves too seriously, duh! That’s why they’re following a clown like Stewart, whose entire political program comes down to this: not being stupid, the way the other guys are stupid–or when being stupid, only stupid in a self-consciously stupid way, which is to say, not stupid. That’s it, that’s all this is about: Not to protest wars or oligarchical theft or declining health care or crushing debt or a corrupt political system or imperial decay—nope, the only thing that motivates Liberals to gather in the their thousands is the chance to celebrate their own lack of stupidity! Woo-hoo!

AP Photo

It’s the final humiliating undoing of Enlightenment Idealism that made Liberalism possible–imagine if Jefferson, Diderot, Montesquieu, Madison et al reduced the entire Enlightenment’s struggle against the old feudal order to “I’m against the monarchy because the monarchy’s stupid…but then again, Rousseau makes a fool of himself with his Romanticism, and Tom Paine is so serious with his ‘Rights of Man’, the Revolutionaries are just as crazy as the Monarchists, so rather than join either side and risk opening myself to mockery, I’m just going to stand back and laugh at them all and say, ‘Really? Independence? Everyone is created equal and has the right to pursue happiness? Really, TJ? You sure you want to say that about Bluebeard? Really?” [LAUGH TRACK]…

It’s not Stewart’s or Colbert’s fault, let’s be clear on that—they’re the only ones doing their job here. They’re the only ones fighting this battle, and the only way they’re surviving is by elaborately pretending they’re not really fighting anyone’s battle over anything, they’re just having a laugh—it’s the same rationale that jesters used in medieval times, and Stewart and Colbert play the same role as the jesters did then…and we’re also playing our role as powerless peasants reduced to self-mockery and snickering at our Masters behind their backs. It’s not their fault that Liberalism today has as its highest priority not looking stupid—and that its premiere rally is framed in such a way that everyone who came to this rally is somehow indemnified from looking foolish precisely because it’s not really a political rally, it’s more like a mockery of a political rally—in a self-consciously smart sort of way. And the Daily Show Democrats who gathered celebrated themselves for this amazing achievement: that they didn’t make fools of themselves standing for something that some other guys could then use to mock them. That’s the biggest sin of the other side, the Tea Partiers especially, at least as the Daily Show fans see it: they look silly, and worse, they’re not shamed into suicide from looking silly, the way Liberals would be shamed into OD’ing on Ambien if they opened themselves up to that sort of mockery.

It was this same lack of ironic self-awareness (or rather, this absence of any sort of mockery-avoidance technology) that led my generation to pillory the hippies and progressives–that’s why we were South Park Republicans before we were Daily Show Democrats: because back then, standing for liberal values meant something, and that made you look lame. Only now, when Liberal ideals have vanished into mythology and all they stand for is “not as crazy or stupid as Republicans” is it safe to camp out with the Democrats. They put nothing on the line ideologically, which perfectly jibes with this generation’s highest value. And that makes it perfectly safe to go to something like a large political rally like Stewart’s—you side with a hollow movement stripped of ideology or purpose, and then you gather to celebrate your own hollowness at a rally whose one promise is “You won’t open yourself up to mockery if you attend this rally” and whose goal is to show how not-stupid “we” are compared to the mockable activists on both the right and the left–the Beckites and the Code Pinkers.

I’ve come to the conclusion that this has been the Great Dream of my generation: to position ourselves in such a way that we’re beyond mockery. To not look stupid. That’s the biggest crime of all–looking stupid. That’s why they’ve turned Stewart into a demigod, because he knows how to make the other guys look really stupid, and if you’re on the same team as Stewart, you’re on the safe side of the mockery, rather than dangerously vulnerable to mockery.

In fact, I think this is why so many Gen-X/Yers turned against Obama: because he made them look stupid. They made themselves vulnerable to looking stupid by believing in him–and he jilted them. That’s how they see it–not that politics is a long ugly process that has nothing to do with self-esteem and everything to do with money and brawling–it was more like an “indie” consumer choice: They bought into the Obama brand, wore it, and suddenly discovered that the label wasn’t as cool as it seemed at the time, especially after the sentimental high of electing a half-black president wore off to the hard slog of what came after… so they threw the Obama jeans away and went to work trying to salvage their coolness creds for having made that fashion mistake. It’s captured best in this Awl essay by Tom Hanks’ daughter–E. A. Hanks, of all people: “Dear The Left: A Breakup Letter” which begins with her reaction to the special Senate election that Scott Brown won:

Dear The Left,

It’s interesting that you couldn’t keep Kennedy’s Massachusetts Senate seat. I’m taking it for granted that you understand that I don’t mean “interesting” at all, but rather “detestable.”

So little Miss Hanks is not joking in her title for the essay–it really is written like a breakup letter. Leaving aside for now the question of “What the fuck is Tom Hanks’ daughter doing talking as if she and ‘The Left’ ever had a deal?”–or the other issue of “Why does your father make shitty Romantic comedy movies that turn decent people into anti-American suicide bombers?”–because we’ll get nowhere if we try answering those…anyway, leaving that aside…By framing her disillusionment as a breakup letter, she reduces the political struggle to a kind of frivolous private-school irony for 20-something Heathers, indemnifying her against Gen-X/Y reader suspicions that her break with Obama might mean she’s one of those Lefties who “have a cow.” She’s not–she’s cool and ironic and has a “Scott Brown? Really? You lost to Scott Brown? No, Really?” attitude, just like all the people who read her have.

20_6338201612102812503930176_21_JGregoryEHanksMMcCainLRettmerACowtherCCheek_063009-1

E. A. Hanks (second from left) with Megan McCain and her friends from “The Left”

Keep in mind that this E.A. Hanks “break-up letter” wound up becoming a hugely popular, heavily-e-forwarded article earlier this year among all the Daily Show Democrats, as embarrassment swept across the Liberal egosphere following Scott Brown’s surprise victory in the Senate race. She is the voice of the Rally today.

So now ask–who writes breakup letters? What’s the point of that? If you’re breaking up with a lover whom you just want to get away from, you won’t publish a breakup letter, you just want it to go away. But if you’re breaking up with a lover because s/he humiliated you, or you’re worried somehow how this will affect your reputation among the cool crowd (the obsession of Gen-Xers and –Yers), then you DO write a letter and publish it, so that you make HIM look like the fool, you transfer the mockery and humiliation out of your hurt little feelers and restore your public image as someone who is cool, who is self-aware, who never gets too excited about things but this one time you did and you got burned and that sucks dude….It’s an elaborate Gen-X/Y rhetorical strategy to abandon a movement or a trend that’s in serious danger of making its fans look stupid. And it’s even worse than that—there’s something very 1950s about her peevishness and selfishness, a kind of Ayn Rand cheerleader dumping the QB because he lost the Homecoming game—all the while she waited it out beneath the bleachers to see who’d win, but she’d foolishly placed her bets a bit too early with the new black QB…

What E. A. Hanks didn’t realize–what no one at the Rally today celebrating their coolness realizes– is that this isn’t about cheerleading for the sentimental favorite and getting rewarded for it by some kind of Liberal Hollywood God—she’s supposed to fight a long dreary battle that goes on and on, long after the credits roll. But that’s not what she signed up for: She saw it as Obama escorting her to the Prom after he made all those hard-hearted Randian cheerleaders weep into their pom-poms at how he overcame adversity and realized the American Dream…only it turned out he can’t win the Big Game, he’s got no Red Zone O. I mean, like, where’s my The Blind Side black man? If Christians can have their Blind Side, why can’t we have our Liberal Blind Side too? The idea that Ms Hanks and the Gen-X cheerleaders looking over her shoulder are supposed to help win the game by any means necessary is as far from her petulant thoughts as possible here.

Instead, as the wounded party, what’s first on her mind is making sure she’s the first to dump, the easiest way to restoring her cool credibility:

Which is to say, we’re over. Yep, sorry. We’re through.

It’s not even that I don’t agree with you, because I do, on all the big ones, at least: Teddy Kennedy’s legacy, gays, abortion, endless wars for the profit of private companies, drowning polar bears, the works. I’m not running off to declare nonsense as truth like, “Health Care Will Kill Us All!” or anything like that.

But, you know what? I don’t think you’re good for me. Or for America, for that matter.

Here’s where something much more sinister about what passes for “Liberal” in my generation is revealed: the totally-selfish Ayn Rand activist, the petulant Libertarian protagonist who has a brand manager’s understanding of what it means to be “Liberal” or “Left”. It is this brand manager’s disillusionment with the brand that is fuelling the Jon Stewart rally—by identifying herself so closely with something that turned out to be not nearly as cool as the buzz claimed, she made herself vulnerable, and mockable. Which may seem frivolous to you old folks out there, but for her and for Gen-X/Yers, exposing yourself like that is the equivalent of a decade of marching for Civil Rights and against the war, getting arrested, beaten, jailed, negotiating with authorities, teaching, etc….here is the Gen-X/Y equivalent of “laying it all on the line”:

There was a moment, after the inauguration of Barack Obama as our 44th President (the one you take credit for) when there was an in-coming wave of people singing.

As the noise got closer, those words made famous by Bananarama became clear and rang out, golden over the Mall: “Na Na Na / Na Na Na / Hey Hey Hey / Goodbye!”

Countless people were waving up at the sky, and when I craned my neck back I could see Marine One was taking the previous President away, forever. His time was done.

I started to wave and sing too, but before I could really give it my best, I burst into tears, The Left. You would have been proud.

When I looked up to try to chip off the frozen snot and salt water from my face, I noticed something: the 100 people in my immediate vicinity were also crying.

And I don’t mean quiet, private, attractive tears.

People were sobbing, really going for it. There was more choking and heaving than a seventh grade girl’s bathroom.

I caught an evanescent understanding of the meaning of catharsis.

It’s not a pleasant, tidy emotional process, wherein one gets closure by having neat conversations that make you feel okay-it’s the violent purging of the cancer that’s been pulsating wetly in your guts for eight years.

Now you might be thinking here, “Hey wait a minute, this sounds just like something Meg Ryan would say, straight out of Sleepless in Seattle or You’ve Got Mail!” Except that it’s worse: like so many disillusioned, spurned Daily Show Dems, she’s flustered that it didn’t all turn out the way a movie would—Obama got her all hot ‘n’ wet, and then somehow things got messy and ugly, it didn’t follow a 3-act dramatic plot. It just turned into work, with no credits ever rolling signifying the end, period. Work is supposed to be compressed into a 30-second montage because work is boring and lame—fuck this shit! It’s the purest expression of a profoundly hollow mindset, devoid of ideology, devoid of purpose beyond protecting her brand.

Film Review The Blind Side

Why couldn’t Obama be more like him?

Hanks’ “break-up letter” wouldn’t matter here if it hadn’t been so popular, and such an early expression of the same mentality fueling the Jon Stewart rally. Somehow, far, far poorer Liberal Elites from the coasts identified with the far richer, privileged Hanks girl because everyone’s stuck in the same rhetorical rules and mindset that were formed in a more prosperous era, when being petulant and frivolous and ironic made a bit more sense, economically speaking. Now we’re fucked, and we’re incapable of adapting to our own desperate, declining circumstances with a more serious rhetorical style that matches our desperation and decline—we’re stuck rolling our eyes like we did in the good ol’ days, but rolling our eyes now is just plain bizarre for everyone but a privileged, selfish crypto-Randroid like Hanks. And not only have we learned to talk and act like celebrities, but we have absorbed the stupidity of their stock plots, in which a happy ending like the Obama Rally stays happy after the credits roll—nothing changes or gets complicated or ugly, it’s just over—over, goddamnit, like in the movies! That’s just not fair, you’re not supposed to cut to a new set of struggles after the happy ending—what kind of movie is that?

So even though we’re jobless and on food stamps, we’re afraid of coming off looking stupid complaining about it–whatever dire situation we’re in, the main thing is not to look stupid when complaining about it. the best way not to look stupid is to blame the guy who made you look stupid:

But I standing [sic] on the National Mall, crying in the arms of that stranger from Georgia, I realized that the anger I had for President Bush gave me was nothing in comparison with the rage I felt for The Left.

The Left.

DailyKos and MoveOn and CodePink and yes, that other one, too. Grand-standing Congresspeople, bandana-ed prostesters and pontificating talking heads.

So much talking! So much feeling! And yet… nothing changed!

Yes, where’s that permanent change! It’s not supposed to be an ongoing struggle—change happens, it’s over, you get up and leave the movie theater. It’s not supposed to be like this! Fuck you, Code Pink!

Like Stewart, she hates on CodePink as much or more as the crazies on the right. That’s been misinterpreted by earnest Lefties as false equivalency–”How can you compare the war crimes and the tens of thousands of deaths caused by one side to shrill protests by CodePink on the other side?” they cry. But you see, that’s not what the Daily Show Democrats are talking about when they equate the two–what makes them equally bad is that they’re equally lame. And siding with either side makes you siding with lameness. That’s worse than any alleged war crime, by my generation’s standards.

You focused so much attention on beating Fox! All of your energy was spent on seeing who could win the spin war, and suddenly we were all shouting “You’re wrong! You’re wrong! You’re wrong!” together, to the point where we were just as hysterical and terrified as the other side! Probably even more!

In other words, “you” started to become effective. Not in the way a petulant Gen-Xer wanted it to be though, because one had to look lame to be effective. One had to be like CodePink–and CodePink isn’t cool. Gen-X/Y didn’t sign up for lame, they signed up for Obama, the sentimental favorite!

And then of course comes the requisite Gen-X self-awareness and self-mockery, preventative-mockery, the most popular rhetorical strategy of my Generation:

And yet here I go, changing everything between us. If I’m being honest, our relationship was all about placating my ego. All of it: the marches, the sit-ins, the phone trees, the whole shebang.

It was about glorifying my personal beliefs, and convincing myself that I was more against the war,more for gay rights, more serious about securing abortion rights, than anyone else.

If you think about it, it was pretty nifty thinking: It’ll look like I’m selflessly placing myself in harm’s way to make a point about how fucked up things are! Then everyone will know how serious I am, how serious I take things. Everyone will be super-impressed.

The only word I can think to describe it is masturbatory. My relationship with The Left was masturbatory.

The only purpose this part of the essay–and it’s the most important part of her argument–is that it serves to bolster what rhetoricians call her “ethos”: She’s establishing herself as self-aware and cool enough to mock herself in-advance, because only lame people or people who take things too seriously or weirdos are incapable of self-mockery. It’s a reverse-helix trick that answers the reader’s inevitable question: “Wait, is she just whining because she got dumped first? Because if she got dumped first, then someone’s a-gonna make fun of her…But no, she must be the one doing the dumping, because she’s showing that she can laugh at herself, and that means she’s not in any sort of emotionally-committed state. She’s not very mockable, which is exactly where I see myself.”

Then comes the ending of her essay, in which she winds up making the exact wrong choice that my generation made when it went “libertarian” as the fake-alternative to Democrat liberalism and Republican conservativism: going it alone.

And that’s why I’m taking this post-Kennedy moment to break up with you, The Left. I don’t want to talk about how I want America to change. I want the inevitable changes that mark American’s great march toward freedom for everyone to be manifested by my individual actions-by everyone’s individual actions.

What’s the point in being a voice in a crowd that’s screaming so loudly that no one has any idea what everyone’s saying? (Even if it’s a crowd I agree with!)

Like a petulant whiner, she wants things to happen without getting her ego dirty. Going it alone is the least-dangerous choice for someone whose politics are driven by vanity, but like the fashionable libertarianism of my generation, the most dangerous choice of all when you consider that politics is all about power struggles over how to order a particular civilization, what to prioritize, how to allocate, and so on. If the ruling class has enormous amounts of money and power and collectivizes in a variety of billionaires’ unions and special interests unions, and your answer is, “I’ll go it alone, at least I won’t look stupid” then you’re just fucking stupid.

It all becomes grotesquely clear with her zinger-conclusion, which equates the Left with “That Lame Guy” whom college wits would always make fun of:

Someone who comes to mind, The Left, is Bob Dylan. (See, I told you we’d still agree on things!)

You know what you’re like? You’re like the people who booed him when he went electric. You’re the pouting kid demanding more “protest songs,” when they’re all protest songs,

And who the hell boos Obam-I mean, Bob Dylan-anyway?

At this point, the Gen-X/Gen-Y stance becomes downright depressing. This is how far we’ve declined: a Gen-Y privileged hipster can’t even muster a zinger from her own era, so she reaches back to some barely-talented rat-cunning jerk from the 60s as her idea of a real cultural hero, if only because he’s managed to avoid being savagely mocked—and then she pulls her zinger from that generation’s “moment,” which was mocked by the next generation, and recycled by her generation…Cultural stagnation is the underlying theme of this whole mess, and that’s what leads back to the Rally to Restore Sanity. America and Liberalism have stagnated and decayed so much that they have to pull their zinger references from 40-year-old put downs that predate E. A. Hanks’ birth. And it still works–because the people who booed Dylan for going electric–their biggest sin is that they “took Dylan too seriously” and made fools of themselves for decades to come. That is her devastating evaluation of how the Obama movie went bad. That’s the lesson–bail out of anything that threatens to make you look lame. The big zinger is borrowed from a hipster put-down so old it predates Ms. Hanks birth—citing an old mockery-favorite like this. But everyone got it. And everyone agreed with her.

You see, this is why so many cool Gen-Xers and Gen-Yers were so jazzed up about going to the Stewart rally–by definition, they were guaranteed not to look stupid by going to it, because it’s not really a rally. They’re not putting anything on the line. They’re just going to chant the equivalent of that annoying Saturday Night Live Update skit “Really?” No generation ever looked so cool so late in their lives as my generation. We did it! We achieved our dream! We don’t look as stupid as the hippies did when they were in their 40s! Woo-hoo! We still mock ourselves and we’re still self-aware, but best of all, we don’t look stupid by devoting ourselves to ideas or movements that other people might one day laugh at. We won! We won the least-stupid-looking-generation competition! Let’s gather together in an ironic, self-aware way, and celebrate how we’re not really rallying or laying anything on the line–not even now, not even when the whole fucking country is collapsing. What’s our prize, Don?

Meanwhile, behind Door Number 1, the country is in two losing wars and the worst economic crisis in 80 years, behind Door Number 2, over 40 million Americans are on fucking food stamps, behind Door Number 3, millions are being land-transfered out of their property like landless peasants in a banana republic–yeah, it’s bad, whatever dude, it’s always been bad, nothing ever changes much, don’t have a cow, deal with it…

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say a few things that might sound stupid, but bear with me:

1. Collective action is the only possible way to change shit. Large numbers of collectivized nobodies rallying to demand what they want–a better cut of the pie, and a better world to live in. It’s the only thing that power-elites fear and the only way to get them to negotiate. There must be thousands of billionaires’ unions—whether the Chamber of Commerce or the gazillions of libertarian networks—and the only thing they hope and dream about and invest their effort into is planting a seed into your vain Gen-X brain that makes you think it’s lame to collectivize. That’s it, that’s the only thing they care about while they’re plundering away. You’ll have to stomach being around people who are lame, and who say lame things, and you’ll feel lame—so you’ll have to decide which is lamer: the fear of being lame, or forming an alliance with people lamer than you in order to struggle against people far meaner, far more greedy and destructive than the lame people you hate—people who have no qualms about being lame when they collectivize, so long as they destroy you and grab everything they want. Tough choice, I know.

2. The problem with the Left wasn’t that they were too fixated on proving they were right, or that they didn’t make enough noise before the war about the lies that led us into that war…the problem is that the Left doesn’t stand for anything Big because it’s not guided by a vision or an Ideal. What does the Left stand for? Let me suggest a few things in people’s own personal interests in these decaying times that the Left should stand for: first, people need money. Then if they have money, they need Life. Then they might be interested in “ideals” set out in the contract that this country is founded on. Ever read the preamble to the Constitution? There’s nothing about private property there and self-interest. Nothing at all about that. It’s a contract whose purpose is clearly spelled out, and it’s a purpose that’s the very opposite of the purpose driving Stewart’s rally, or the purpose driving the libertarian ideology so dominant over the past few generations. This country, by contract, was founded in order to strive for a “more Perfect Union”—that’s “union,” as in the pairing of the words “perfect” and “union”—not sovereign, not states, not local, not selfish, but “union.” And that other purpose at the end of the Constitution’s contractual obligations: promote the “General Welfare.” That means “welfare.” Not “everyone for himself” but “General Welfare.” That’s what it is to be American: to strive to form the most perfect union with each other, and to promote everyone’s general betterment. That’s it. The definition of an American patriot is anyone promoting the General Welfare of every single American, and anyone helping to form the most perfect Union—that’s “union”, repeat, “Union” you dumb fucks. Now, our problem is that there are a lot of people in this country who have dedicated their entire lives to subverting the stated purpose of this country. We must be prepared to identify those who disrupt and sabotage our national purpose of creating this “more perfect union” identifying those who sabotage our national goal of “promoting the General Welfare”—and calling them by their name: traitors. You who strive to form this Perfect Union and promote General Welfare—You are Patriots.

3. Anytime anyone says anything libertarian, spit on them. Libertarians are by definition enemies of the state: they are against promoting American citizens’ general welfare and against policies that create a perfect union. Like Communists before them, they are actively subverting the Constitution and the American Dream, and replacing it with a Kleptocratic Nightmare.

4. A slogan, a line from Blade Runner: “Then we’re stupid, and we’ll die.”

Mark Ames is the author of Going Postal: Rage, Murder and Rebellion from Reagan’s Workplaces to Clinton’s Columbine.
I don't agree with a lot of this article, and even less of the author's apparent personal politics. However, I do think its an incisive critique of the pathological disease, now obvious to all with functioning central nervous systems on the broad progressive left, which completely afflicts "mainstream" or "establishment" left-liberalism. It is completely inept, pitiful, and now gleeful and celebratory of its pathologies. If there need be any reason why top-down, "army of tool-like seasonal-then-disposable/demobilized volunteers" to put in "personality-based" candidate whose dedication to substantive progressive change and reform is at best implicit, and at worst, spiritual, is any alternative, was never any alternative to old fashioned collective action and organization, surely here it is.

It is completely inadequate, now not only for the social and sustainable salvation of humanity and the American public, in particular, but even for its own medium-term survival as a meaningful political feature. It is a sad testament to the failure of mainstream Western social democratic, labor, and social liberal/social justice politics in the backward rightist nation with the antiquated political system, and not much more: good riddance. Let's go about building at least a 21st Century response to the Progressive Era and Movement of the turn of the 20th Century.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28848
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Broomstick »

Honestly, I'm not sure WTF this guy is saying - his style is generating a tl:dr response no matter how much I try to force myself to read it. Yes, he's unhappy about "The Left" but I don't why. He rambles on about his own goddamned feelings so much in such wordy prose it gets repetitious and boring. He doesn't like today's left, OK, fine, that's his opinion, but really this comes across to me as a giant whine-fest.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

I don't know how else to get down to it, but the basic point is that most of the 'intellectually-engaged' and 'spectator' progressives, and the general youth audience of the Daily Show and the Colbert Report, generally are withdrawn to any form of radical, social-based, or old left-style forms of progressive politics. In many ways, the culture of the "Obama Youth" and such seems to be more based on what reflects on them as cool or authentic, versus 'shrill' or 'lame'. I'm sorry, but it does bear repeating: "Code Pinkers" are not racists and apologists for war crimes, whereas Tea Parties and George Bush in many sense literally are. But what really matters to this group is whether you're in or somehow tacky or marginal; thereby, both ugly old white Tea Partiers and hippies and socialists are all the same.

Furthermore, this is reflected in what I see as consistent themes of basing politics on "what brand of think tank mass produced policy wonkery", without looking at the social and economic basis of different bureaucracies, policies, and groups within the major parties. We live in an era where media personalities lead meaningless rallies on the basis of populist-tinged people who precisely abhor mainstream two-party politics, and yet, the substantive effect of this kind of rallying is to make them fall into the fold: Tea Partiers go end up supporting the GOP and the Stewart kids can try and shore up the ailing mainstream Democrats.

I think he's right in his rather succinct conclusion: the Obama armchair kids and college hipsters need to get off their high horses and integrate with poor and working people's struggles and organizing. If you look at history, you see all the things that social liberals now claim to care about in this country (but perennially fail to deliver on) were accomplished elsewhere because they had real labor politics. But across the civilized world, austerity and a general dismantling of whatever there was of the social contract will continue on, and surely have very bad consequences for most people. I don't know why people think that there is any solution for the United States outside of significant and deeply-rooteds political and economic reform as the constitutional level. Our two-party system is a relic, and our system of both voting and apportionment is backward under basic and mainstream liberal democratic standards of fairness and representative proportionality. Time to join the 21st century. And American liberalism's always been a pathetic vague shadow of European social democracy.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
User avatar
PainRack
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7583
Joined: 2002-07-07 03:03am
Location: Singapura

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by PainRack »

Ah. No discussion about the failings of the "political leaders", just, its your fault for being disillusioned.

This sounds familar to the propaganda being whipped around here, just cast in leftist language as opposed to conservative bullpup.
Let him land on any Lyran world to taste firsthand the wrath of peace loving people thwarted by the myopic greed of a few miserly old farts- Katrina Steiner
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28848
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Broomstick »

I think the guy quoted in the OP doesn't get it - the "Rally for Sanity" is NOT a political rally lead by politicians, it is a rally lead by the modern equivalent of court jesters pointing out the faults in the current regime, including finger pointing at ALL sides. That's part of the problem, a lot of people didn't get the point, that it's making fun of things to make a point, not necessarily to assemble an army to fix things or overturn the current establishment.

Really, how often does having a couple hundred thousand people show up anywhere actually change things? Without a riot or revolution or actual blood shed breaking out? The point wasn't to come up with a solution for the problems or run for office but rather to make a point or two: the current system is a farce, there are a lot of people who see through it, that there are still rational, moderate people left in this country, and neither party speaks for them.

Now, if there are some unhappy youth sitting in armchairs (and there are ALWAYS unhappy youth in the world, it's part of being youthful, I think) it's up to THEM to get up off their asses and start making change, in even in the face of hopeless odds, rather than waiting for someone to ride in on a white horse and rescue them.

As for the appearances issue - no different than the 1960's counter culture uniform of long hair, blue jeans, sandals, and beaded faux-indian headbands and a peace symbol on a long chain. If you didn't have those you weren't with it, even if you listened to rock 'n' roll and marched against the Viet Nam war. No one wants to appear "lame" or outside the in group.

Young adults - in Old Fart Speak "Today's goddamn kids" - always like to think they're special and often specially oppressed. They aren't. The details change but every generation has shit to deal with. Massive unemployment and the Great Recession? Talk to my dad, who grew up in the 1930's about that. Feel that your government doesn't give a shit about you and you're not in control? Ask the 1960's generation - oh, wait, aren't they the ones in charge now? Gee, how did THAT happen? Huh - maybe they got off their asses and started taking some risks for change? Maybe the current crop should give it a try. Don't like it? Then do something about it!

Of course "Patient Moderates for Drastic Reform NOW!" is going to bring a chuckle... but dammit, do it anyway!
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Themightytom
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2818
Joined: 2007-12-22 11:11am
Location: United States

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Themightytom »

PainRack wrote:Ah. No discussion about the failings of the "political leaders", just, its your fault for being disillusioned.

This sounds familar to the propaganda being whipped around here, just cast in leftist language as opposed to conservative bullpup.
It's just a pile of ethnocentric venting. "how dare other people have different opinions, I must invalidate them in every possible manner, or my own are threatened."

This article is a lot of what Stewart was speaking out against, a point entirely lost to the right. Other people can have different opinions, they can even be emotionally commuted to them, and believe strongly in them. Period.

This pervasive need to characterize anything that it different so negatively and attack it in order to validate ones own position has not made things better, it's made things more convoluted and volatile. The only ones benefiting this are people who thrive under those conditions.

That being said, I disagree with Stewart's proposal, that we just "slow down and let other people merge" i think the left has done way too much of that, and has been getting nowhere fast. BECAUSE of the ideological divide we are seeing, and the rights insistence that anyone not far right, is far left, we can't afford to peacefully disagree, to be reasonable, because the other side isn't and their tone is dominating the debates of our time. The right is so focused on winning on the spot victories, they are taking steps that do long term harm. look at Christine O'Donnell. Is Anyone In The Tea party Thinking Beyond The Election here? What if she actually wins :wtf:

I recognize the need to restore sanity, in fact the OP article's rambling mildly coherent flailing proves the need is real, but I don't think the method is through modeling positive behaviors, I think it needs to be through intervention.

"Since when is "the west" a nation?"-Styphon
"ACORN= Cobra obviously." AMT
This topic is... oh Village Idiot. Carry on then.--Havok
User avatar
Morilore
Jedi Master
Posts: 1202
Joined: 2004-07-03 01:02am
Location: On a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Morilore »

Broomstick wrote:I think the guy quoted in the OP doesn't get it - the "Rally for Sanity" is NOT a political rally lead by politicians, it is a rally lead by the modern equivalent of court jesters pointing out the faults in the current regime, including finger pointing at ALL sides. That's part of the problem, a lot of people didn't get the point, that it's making fun of things to make a point, not necessarily to assemble an army to fix things or overturn the current establishment.
Um, he does get it. He even uses almost that exact phrase, "court jester." His bellyaching is about how people view Jon Stewart as a liberal icon because liberalism these days is apparently all about triangulating the safest possible position from mockery. His thesis is that people these days determine their political opinions based entirely on how not to get laughed at. Which, granted, may be a popular approach in all places and all times, but it is definitely stupid in all places and all times.
Ask the 1960's generation - oh, wait, aren't they the ones in charge now? Gee, how did THAT happen? Huh - maybe they got off their asses and started taking some risks for change?
What a ridiculous thing to say. The "1960's generation" is now in charge because it is now old enough to be in charge.

Also: why are you implying that he is an ivory-tower do-nothing whiner? His entire suggestion is precisely to "get off your asses and start taking some risks for a change!"
1. Collective action is the only possible way to change shit. Large numbers of collectivized nobodies rallying to demand what they want–a better cut of the pie, and a better world to live in. It’s the only thing that power-elites fear and the only way to get them to negotiate. There must be thousands of billionaires’ unions—whether the Chamber of Commerce or the gazillions of libertarian networks—and the only thing they hope and dream about and invest their effort into is planting a seed into your vain Gen-X brain that makes you think it’s lame to collectivize. That’s it, that’s the only thing they care about while they’re plundering away. You’ll have to stomach being around people who are lame, and who say lame things, and you’ll feel lame—so you’ll have to decide which is lamer: the fear of being lame, or forming an alliance with people lamer than you in order to struggle against people far meaner, far more greedy and destructive than the lame people you hate—people who have no qualms about being lame when they collectivize, so long as they destroy you and grab everything they want. Tough choice, I know.
"Guys, don't do that"
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Thanas »

Calling Mark Ames an ivory-tower guy is hilarious. And I think he has a point in the sense that a lot of people are just not doing enough to make their voices heard. For example, there was a majority for the public option but it never made itself as heard as the right-whing whackos.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
TithonusSyndrome
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2569
Joined: 2006-10-10 08:15pm
Location: The Money Store

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

He could've saved a lot of time by saying "hipsters and their mentality are ruining the left", if that's what he was after, and I definitely wouldn't disagree. People who think that being a "hipster" boils down to liking some indie rock band and wearing a scarf in summer couldn't be more wrong, because the moment those things became identifiably "hipster" and contemptible as a result was the moment they jettisoned them and co-opted some other subculture's fashion and music, and now only clueless nerdos immersed in internet culture bother to denote these things as calling cards of hipsterdom in their Cracked articles and what have you. Being a hipster, at it's core, is about remaining as free from criticism and vulnerability as possible, and the best tool they've devised to secure this is by preemptively jettisoning anything that could compromise their egos by appearing emotionally invested in it; and in a complimentary sense by maintaining that anything they're committed to or interested in is merely an affectation that doesn't denote genuine emotional investment, like the mockup of the Tea Party that this rally was. Oh ha ha, you thought I was serious? How imperceptive you are to not see that it was all an act! Shame on your for your low social intelligence, but more importantly, no shame on me!

The Obamarama of 2008 definitely seemed like a no-brainer for hipsters and anyone even remotely within the cultural influence of hipster culture to get on board with; he was a hip young dark horse senator who talked a good game and seemed to represent everything that wasn't Bush. But that's the miserable ouroboros of hipsterdom... everything can be mocked, eventually, given enough time to analyze it's weaknesses. Most people cope with this by developing thicker skin, coming to terms with their limitations, and exploring for possible alternatives to at least give themselves the peace of mind that they've got the best of all possible worlds at their disposal. Hipsters, or anyone who runs their life by the hipster mentality, devote themselves to this futile pursuit of save haven from all criticism and as the author puts it, "lameness", that won't ever end. Ordinarily this would just be a diversion for music subculture enthusiasts like me if their whole way of doing business wasn't expanding into the arena of participatory politics, but evidently supporting a 1981 London post-punk band is as much a part of their personal brand, their self-image, as who they're going to choose to vote on issues of everything leading right up to life and death.

From time to time I like to use this Ludwig von Mises quote about how "an anti-something movement has little chance of achieving it's goals because it conveys a purely negative attitude and needs the inspiration provided by something truly worth aspiring to in order to succeed" or something like that, because inasmuch as that the popular non-academic Left has become conflated with hipsterdom, it's true. The Left as a hipster phenomenon, as a shelter to ridicule the Tea Party and the GOP and nothing else to advance social justice from, has lost it's soul. Of course, the Left isn't entirely hipsterdom, and if it can remember that and maybe do the highly unfashionable act of emotionally investing themselves into some kind of activism on behalf of a cause supported by more than just a remnant fringe of the 60's protester lineage, it might be able to work it's way back there.
Image
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28848
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Broomstick »

Morilore wrote:
Broomstick wrote:I think the guy quoted in the OP doesn't get it - the "Rally for Sanity" is NOT a political rally lead by politicians, it is a rally lead by the modern equivalent of court jesters pointing out the faults in the current regime, including finger pointing at ALL sides. That's part of the problem, a lot of people didn't get the point, that it's making fun of things to make a point, not necessarily to assemble an army to fix things or overturn the current establishment.
Um, he does get it. He even uses almost that exact phrase, "court jester." His bellyaching is about how people view Jon Stewart as a liberal icon because liberalism these days is apparently all about triangulating the safest possible position from mockery. His thesis is that people these days determine their political opinions based entirely on how not to get laughed at. Which, granted, may be a popular approach in all places and all times, but it is definitely stupid in all places and all times.
Then they need to learn to laugh at themselves a bit. Half the problem is people take political affiliation so goddamn seriously. It's turned compromise and bipartisan into dirty words. If you can't laugh at your own foibles you ARE too fucking serious and probably have a serious lack of self confidence. That's fine for the tea party shepherds, who want to use their serfs followers insecurities and fear to their own end, but not for the opposition. Nothing scares an autocrat like someone who is self-confident enough to laugh, to admit mistakes, to work with those who don't agree with them.

And so fucking what if Stewart is viewed as a "liberal icon"? Does it matter how you classify him if he has a role in provoking positive change? The role of the court jester is to say the things no on else dares to say for fear of being smacked down. The ability to say "ha-ha - only kidding" when really, after the jester points everyone can see the Emperor is naked, makes it harder to keep up the subterfuge.
Ask the 1960's generation - oh, wait, aren't they the ones in charge now? Gee, how did THAT happen? Huh - maybe they got off their asses and started taking some risks for change?
What a ridiculous thing to say. The "1960's generation" is now in charge because it is now old enough to be in charge.
Really? It's just a matter of being "old enough"? ::: looks around ::: Gee, I'm old enough but I'm not in charge of anything! Maybe it's because even when I did get off my ass I wasn't interested in going into government. No, they're NOT in charge simply because they're old enough - the ones in charge are there because they worked for it. If you want to change the government it's not enough to sit in mama's basement whining while you play video games. You have to work for it. Make sacrifices of your time and energy. Bravo for the kid's who did just that and worked during the 2008 campaign, but you know, you don't just win an election and be done with it. The job of governance never ends. You don't work for change then go home after the election, you keep at it - forever. And you don't give up when the job proves difficult or there are set backs, you keep at it. Oh, boo-fucking-hoo - they won an election but there's still opposition and the world isn't paradise two years down the road. Who told them it would be that easy? Yes, it hurts to grow up and learn uncomfortable truths about the world. Grow the fuck up anyway.
Also: why are you implying that he is an ivory-tower do-nothing whiner? His entire suggestion is precisely to "get off your asses and start taking some risks for a change!"
Frankly, I don't know who the fuck he is, never heard of him before. But he sure SOUNDS like an "ivory-tower do-nothing whiner" to me. If it quacks like a duck, there's a good chance it's a duck.
1. Collective action is the only possible way to change shit. Large numbers of collectivized nobodies rallying to demand what they want–a better cut of the pie, and a better world to live in. It’s the only thing that power-elites fear and the only way to get them to negotiate. There must be thousands of billionaires’ unions—whether the Chamber of Commerce or the gazillions of libertarian networks—and the only thing they hope and dream about and invest their effort into is planting a seed into your vain Gen-X brain that makes you think it’s lame to collectivize. That’s it, that’s the only thing they care about while they’re plundering away. You’ll have to stomach being around people who are lame, and who say lame things, and you’ll feel lame—so you’ll have to decide which is lamer: the fear of being lame, or forming an alliance with people lamer than you in order to struggle against people far meaner, far more greedy and destructive than the lame people you hate—people who have no qualms about being lame when they collectivize, so long as they destroy you and grab everything they want. Tough choice, I know.
Hm... let's see - calling people in groups working for change "nobodies"... using words like "collectivize"... he sure sounds like a "lame" academic with socialist/communist leanings. How about a little contempt for the working stiffs and students by calling them "nobodies". :roll: His use of language betrays him, from word choice to ramblings that could be said both more succinctly and more coherently. I've been hearing shit like his for nearly 40 years now, it does not impress me.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Thanas »

Broomstick wrote:
Also: why are you implying that he is an ivory-tower do-nothing whiner? His entire suggestion is precisely to "get off your asses and start taking some risks for a change!"
Frankly, I don't know who the fuck he is, never heard of him before. But he sure SOUNDS like an "ivory-tower do-nothing whiner" to me. If it quacks like a duck, there's a good chance it's a duck.
Oh for god's sake, Broomstick. I hear google is hard to use now.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Norade
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2424
Joined: 2005-09-23 11:33pm
Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada
Contact:

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Norade »

Broomstick, no matter how hard I work, the odds of my lower middle class ass every controlling anything in government are low because my free time is limited and I don't have access to rich backers. The ones in power now are the ones who had opportunity given to them interspersed with a small few who clawed there way in tooth and nail and no don't dare risk losing it all for not fitting in.
School requires more work than I remember it taking...
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28848
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Broomstick »

Thanas wrote:Oh for god's sake, Broomstick. I hear google is hard to use now.
Phffft! Let's just say his writing in the OP left me unimpressed enough not to bother googling him. Now that I've read the wiki I'm no more impressed. While I wish him success in his life I'm just not particularly impressed by him, OK?

I am moderately surprised he's roughly in my generation - but then, as I said, I've been hearing similar things from the disaffected for decades now.
Norade wrote:Broomstick, no matter how hard I work, the odds of my lower middle class ass every controlling anything in government are low because my free time is limited and I don't have access to rich backers. The ones in power now are the ones who had opportunity given to them interspersed with a small few who clawed there way in tooth and nail and no don't dare risk losing it all for not fitting in.
If you want it you have to work for it. NOT in your "spare time", dumbshit.

Does wealth matter? Of course it does. It makes it much easier. On the other hand, President Clinton grew up in poverty as the son of a single parent. Yet he busted his ass and worked his way up to President anyway. Obama was also the child of a single parent and though his maternal family was middle class they didn't have any great advantages for him politically, and being half black was and still is a liability. Nonetheless, he works from the Oval Office, doesn't he? Both those men got there by working their asses off, day after day. None of this "free time" horseshit. Sure, both those men got wealthy backers - how do you think they did that? By sitting back or dabbling at it in their spare time? Fuck no.

Obama and I are only a couple years apart in age. Why is he PotUS and not me? Because he worked his ass off in government and politics and I didn't. He chose to go into government, and I chose to go elsewhere. No one is EVER going to hand you anything worthwhile on a platter, so get that thought out of your head right now.

If all you have is "free time" then at least use some of that constructively. Like me, for instance - I gave up most of my weekend free time to actually do some research on the people I'm voting for tomorrow. Sure, it's a small thing, and I admit that most of the people I vote for lose, but it's the one area where my voice has SOME power. How many of the whining kids bitching about the world today even bother to do THAT much? Of course, that's unsexy and boring and no one sees you vote... so you don't gain points with your peers. But if they really gave a damn they'd be doing stuff like that. The truth is, most people like to bitch but damn few REALLY care enough to put the effort in to change things. Which thing is basically what Mark Ames is a saying, but with less fluff and verbiage. And nothing new at all. People want merit badges to show off to their friends so show how involved they are, they don't really want to do the work or take the risks - and make no mistakes, if you aren't willing to run risks you aren't going to make gains, either.

Truth is, your vote matters most in the unsexy LOCAL elections, not in the big races to elect senators and presidents. Truth is, you will make no impact unless you DO SOMETHING - get involved, speak up, work hard. It's always been that way, and always will be.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Thanas »

Broomstick wrote:
Thanas wrote:Oh for god's sake, Broomstick. I hear google is hard to use now.
Phffft! Let's just say his writing in the OP left me unimpressed enough not to bother googling him. Now that I've read the wiki I'm no more impressed. While I wish him success in his life I'm just not particularly impressed by him, OK?

I am moderately surprised he's roughly in my generation - but then, as I said, I've been hearing similar things from the disaffected for decades now.
Well, he was one of the few to expose corruption in Russia, so that is pretty impressive in my book.

As for the rest, Broomstick, I really think you might want to take a step back or something. Your response sounds more like angry venting or berating people than interesting discussion.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Morilore
Jedi Master
Posts: 1202
Joined: 2004-07-03 01:02am
Location: On a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Morilore »

Just a few things before I get back to working playing video games in my mother's basement.*
Broomstick wrote:If you want it you have to work for it. NOT in your "spare time", dumbshit.
Ooohhhhhh, I see now. "If you want change you have to make it your profession, otherwise shut up." Leave politics to the professionals. Got it.

No, Broomstick: it is right and proper and just that people without jobs in politics continue to bitch about politics, regardless of whether you think they aren't "working" "hard" "enough." If you have a negative Pavlovian response to the word "collectivize" as a result of a century of Red-baiting, well, you don't have to read it.

*Fuck you, Broomstick.
"Guys, don't do that"
User avatar
Pint0 Xtreme
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2430
Joined: 2004-12-14 01:40am
Location: The City of Angels
Contact:

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Pint0 Xtreme »

Morilore wrote:Just a few things before I get back to working playing video games in my mother's basement.*
Broomstick wrote:If you want it you have to work for it. NOT in your "spare time", dumbshit.
Ooohhhhhh, I see now. "If you want change you have to make it your profession, otherwise shut up." Leave politics to the professionals. Got it.

No, Broomstick: it is right and proper and just that people without jobs in politics continue to bitch about politics, regardless of whether you think they aren't "working" "hard" "enough." If you have a negative Pavlovian response to the word "collectivize" as a result of a century of Red-baiting, well, you don't have to read it.

*Fuck you, Broomstick.
To be frank, any tiny amount of good social change in the United States takes an incredible amount of effort. This is not the way I'd like it but it is what it is. To make some kind of significant impact in this country, you'd almost have to devote your career to politics. Of course, that doesn't mean you have to be a politician. There are many people who are career political activists but they don't get paid as much obviously.
Image
User avatar
Akumz Razor
Youngling
Posts: 144
Joined: 2008-06-23 03:36pm
Location: TV Hill
Contact:

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Akumz Razor »

The quoted article in the OP is a bit confusing as it doesn't differentiate when the author quotes Hanks' "breakup letter" to The Left. Clicking on the link increases the author's coherency by putting Hanks' excerpts in the own quote boxes, and making the whole thing less of a tl;dr affair.
The simplest solution takes the shortest time to write down.

"My homies!" - Shatner

"The women!!" - Spock

"He's no better than Shatner!" - Phil Hartman as Bill Clinton re: Leonard Nimoy

-cinemaphotography-
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Simon_Jester »

I would like to point out that the entire reason for having a democracy is to allow people who aren't professional policy-makers or aristocrats at least minimal influence on what happens in the country. If you want influence out of proportion to the share of the country you make up (about one part in three hundred million- not much), yes you have to work for it. If you want to be one of the Big Names, yes you have to make a career out of it.

But it is neither possible nor desirable for every person who wants the country to change to dedicate their life to that change. And it isn't reasonable to condemn people for wanting change without making a career of it- though it IS reasonable to condemn them for wanting change while doing exactly zero.

If you want change and aren't prepared to make a career of it (which is normal), offer time or money to those who do spend their life on politics. It works. It's worked before, it will work again. And if you're doing that, you are under no obligation to listen to people complain about how you're lazy and useless and only interested in politics because it's "hip."
TithonusSyndrome wrote:Being a hipster, at it's core, is about remaining as free from criticism and vulnerability as possible, and the best tool they've devised to secure this is by preemptively jettisoning anything that could compromise their egos by appearing emotionally invested in it; and in a complimentary sense by maintaining that anything they're committed to or interested in is merely an affectation that doesn't denote genuine emotional investment, like the mockup of the Tea Party that this rally was. Oh ha ha, you thought I was serious? How imperceptive you are to not see that it was all an act! Shame on your for your low social intelligence, but more importantly, no shame on me!
And yet a lot of the people I met at the rally seemed... pretty serious to me.

Sure, it was a wacky crowd, but I don't think we should assume that the fact that their slogans are humorous doesn't reflect underlying sincerity. A lot of people there responded fairly positively to "serious" political slogans.

If there's a lack of energy to push for change ("where are all the people who rallied to Obama in '08?"), yes, some of the responsibility goes to a lack of enthusiasm on the part of twenty-somethings... twenty-somethings who are mostly either struggling through college and holding a job in this environment, or struggling to find a job in this environment.

It is NOT easy to leap to the conclusion that political radicalism might get your demographic results more efficiently than trying to keep their heads down and toiling will.

On top of that, even while the 'hipster' generation supposedly lacks the abilityto push for change from below, there is a dearth of organized leadership from above. That definitely contributes to the problem. To take the obvious example, if Obama worked as hard to mobilize support for his attempts to govern as he had for his attempts to win public office, he'd have that support. Or a lot of it: there are a lot of people who did NOT just support Obama because he was hip; they honestly thought he was going to do things they approved of.

Instead, Obama seems to have treated the youth vote (and the youth volunteerists) as a kind of booster stage that got him up to speed and can now be discarded as unnecessary dead weight. Why is it a surprise that this leads to a few years of disaffection and confusion? The guy who presented himself as the leader of a movement of Young Turks abandons his followers and joins the ranks of the Old Turks; what do you expect to happen? Of course chaos is going to ensue as the movement he took over finds itself leaderless.

And no, that's not a shallow "I'm disappointed in you, I'm breaking up" thing. It's a serious criticism, in my opinion. No political movement can function without politically capable leadership and a motivated base, and I'd say that the American left has at least as many problems with a lack of leadership as it does with a lack of base.

I think all of this will predictably change: the times are too serious to allow this generation the luxury of not taking politics seriously, and most of the public seems to be intelligent enough to have started figuring that out by now. What worries me is the amount of damage that's being done in the process, and that will have to be reversed- especially the damage done in 'the years the locusts ate.'

2007-2010 at the very least amount to lost opportunities for the Left to repair the damage done by economic libertarians and social conservatives; it seems likely that 2011 and 2012 will fall down the same drain.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
User avatar
Uraniun235
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13772
Joined: 2002-09-12 12:47am
Location: OREGON
Contact:

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Uraniun235 »

It's been thirty years and there hasn't been a coherent drive to reverse the rightward drift of the US. Thirty years of leftists failing to oppose wars, deregulation, and general plundering. Is it really such a surprise that the latest generation of people to come into their late-teens and twenties is going to fail to organize a meaningful opposition against those who would take advantage of them?
"There is no "taboo" on using nuclear weapons." -Julhelm
Image
What is Project Zohar?
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Stark »

People have even bemoaned it for 30 years; those from the 'movement' era are aware that that level of participation is gone.

Historically the worse things get the mor elikely reform becomes, but that requires dialog and political process, which seems a bit dead in the US.
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28848
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Broomstick »

Morilore wrote:
Broomstick wrote:If you want it you have to work for it. NOT in your "spare time", dumbshit.
Ooohhhhhh, I see now. "If you want change you have to make it your profession, otherwise shut up." Leave politics to the professionals. Got it.
No, Broomstick: it is right and proper and just that people without jobs in politics continue to bitch about politics, regardless of whether you think they aren't "working" "hard" "enough." If you have a negative Pavlovian response to the word "collectivize" as a result of a century of Red-baiting, well, you don't have to read it.
Frankly, I don't know what, if any effort you put forth, but let's cover a few points:

1) Do you vote? Yes, I am well aware of the mess a typical US ballot is. I even started a thread illustrating that. Nonetheless, I vote. Few things piss me off as much as some whining teen bitching about the nation who then fails to vote. I don't want to hear that your vote doesn't matter, that they're all assholes, voting is a MINIMUM level of participation in your country's affairs.

2) Do you vote thoughtfully? Meaning, do you actually research the candidates. I realize that not everyone has the time to do this in depth, but do you do it all? FAR too many Americans of any age fail to do this - they vote straight party, or along racial lines, or religious lines, or because the name sounds nice to them. That's bullshit.

3) Do you vote locally? Realistically, your one vote for, say US President counts for little. It's locally where your voice has the most impact, and those are, on a certain level, the most important elections you can participate in because that's where you have the most effect. It's important, because on the local level is where party candidates start out. If you don't vote for people who represent your views for dog catcher and tax assessor they will never rise higher nor run for higher office. That's the way it works, usually - most career politicians start small and local and work their way up.

4) Do you work for the candidates of your choice? Do you do anything? - volunteer? Donate? Your candidates need more than your vote, they need helpers and need money, too.

5) Do you write/call your representatives? If you don't tell them what you think they don't know. COMMUNICATE. If they do something you don't like TELL THEM. Even more important, if they do something you approve TELL THEM. They do pay attention because, after all, if enough people get pissed off they'll be out of a job next election cycle no matter how many big money people support them because the big oligarchs are still the minority. Since most people don't do this they assume that for most communications there are others who feel the same but aren't telling them.

6) Do you write letters to the editor or attend community meetings? No, it's not like voting, but for fuck's sake speak up. Refute the opposition at every opportunity. Show up. Politicians do pay attention to these things, it's part of their job.

NONE of those require a career, but they do require work and they do require you to give up some of your precious free time. I don't expect anyone to do all of the above, but you better hit at least half of them (and definitely #1). This shit is, actually, important - but most people I see spend more time doing their fucking hair than dealing with this. The more you do the more effect you have.

As mama used to say, those who do not exercise their right to vote do not have a right to bitch.

But yes, as pointed out, if you want your voice to be more than 1/300,000,000th of the decision making in the US you will have to work for it. And probably work fucking hard. Don't want to make a career out of it? Fine - then support those who do who will actually speak for you. At least give them your damn vote, at least that much.

As for the word "collectivize" - frankly, I don't have a personal issue with it, but 90% of the US electorate DOES - as soon as he starts using language like that people shut down and shut him out. It's not a good choice to communicate with the typical American. Maybe that's not his audience, in which case it's fine, but his seemed like a generalized rant. Right or wrong, it's a loaded word in the US.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Simon_Jester »

Uraniun235 wrote:It's been thirty years and there hasn't been a coherent drive to reverse the rightward drift of the US. Thirty years of leftists failing to oppose wars, deregulation, and general plundering. Is it really such a surprise that the latest generation of people to come into their late-teens and twenties is going to fail to organize a meaningful opposition against those who would take advantage of them?
This is basically my point. National leadership cadres do not emerge from a pack of 20-25 year olds overnight. When the establishment systematically co-opts each new wave of potential leadership figures (Dean, Obama...) as fast as they can appear on the political scene, it is much harder to organize coherent opposition. It's not just because the twentysomethings are losers who like to bitch about politics and want to wait for their Designated Man on Horseback before they actually try to accomplish anything. It's because there is an actual need for leadership, for people who know the system from personal experience and have the maturity and confidence to be in a good position to shape it.

The civil rights movement had greater participation and enthusiasm in the ranks. The civil rights movement also had Martin Luther King and Malcolm X: men who were in their thirties and forties during the 1960s, men who were competent and inspirational leaders, men who cared about the issues enough to keep doing the difficult job of coordinating and leading the movement even in the face of (very credible, ultimately carried out) death threats.

I suspect this was not a coincidence.

Who do we have today willing and able to do that job? Don't expect some kid fresh out of college to do it; he won't be able to unless he's the equivalent of Alexander the Great, and maybe not even then.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
User avatar
PainRack
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7583
Joined: 2002-07-07 03:03am
Location: Singapura

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by PainRack »

Simon_Jester wrote:The civil rights movement had greater participation and enthusiasm in the ranks. The civil rights movement also had Martin Luther King and Malcolm X: men who were in their thirties and forties during the 1960s, men who were competent and inspirational leaders, men who cared about the issues enough to keep doing the difficult job of coordinating and leading the movement even in the face of (very credible, ultimately carried out) death threats.

I suspect this was not a coincidence.

Who do we have today willing and able to do that job? Don't expect some kid fresh out of college to do it; he won't be able to unless he's the equivalent of Alexander the Great, and maybe not even then.
As I said before, the post simply makes no attempt to analyse why the youth of today is disaffected in politics. Instead, its simply stated that they aren't, they are too caught up in "Lame-o" culture and hence, its all their fault.


All I have to do is recast the language in right-wing terms and I get the exact same propangda over here.
Let him land on any Lyran world to taste firsthand the wrath of peace loving people thwarted by the myopic greed of a few miserly old farts- Katrina Steiner
User avatar
Flagg
CUNTS FOR EYES!
Posts: 12797
Joined: 2005-06-09 09:56pm
Location: Hell. In The Room Right Next to Reagan. He's Fucking Bonzo. No, wait... Bonzo's fucking HIM.

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Flagg »

My critique of the rally would be Stewarts imbecilic compromise golden mean horseshit. How exactly do you compromise with people who openly brag about never compromising? That and him equivocating an actual news channel like MSNBC with Fox has shown him to be a naive dumbshit.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to
Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan

He who can,
does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
User avatar
Rye
To Mega Therion
Posts: 12493
Joined: 2003-03-08 07:48am
Location: Uighur, please!

Re: A Critique and Rejoinder to the Stewart/Colbert Rally

Post by Rye »

TithonusSyndrome wrote:From time to time I like to use this Ludwig von Mises quote about how "an anti-something movement has little chance of achieving it's goals because it conveys a purely negative attitude and needs the inspiration provided by something truly worth aspiring to in order to succeed" or something like that, because inasmuch as that the popular non-academic Left has become conflated with hipsterdom, it's true. The Left as a hipster phenomenon, as a shelter to ridicule the Tea Party and the GOP and nothing else to advance social justice from, has lost it's soul. Of course, the Left isn't entirely hipsterdom, and if it can remember that and maybe do the highly unfashionable act of emotionally investing themselves into some kind of activism on behalf of a cause supported by more than just a remnant fringe of the 60's protester lineage, it might be able to work it's way back there.
If you think Obama's not doing a good enough job and the republicans are awful, won't you come across as a "purely negative" type anyway? I don't think people are unwilling to emotionally invest in worthwhile things, it's just that it's pretty futile to expect to get anywhere since the Washington establishment and the vastly easier to engage disgruntled populist Right seem to hold all the keys and guard all the gates. To put it in perspective, compare Bush's invasion of Iraq to Obama's attempt to introduce universal healthcare. Where the Hell do you start with a system like that, if not someone genuinely likeable like Stewart?
EBC|Fucking Metal|Artist|Androgynous Sexfiend|Gozer Kvltist|
Listen to my music! http://www.soundclick.com/nihilanth
"America is, now, the most powerful and economically prosperous nation in the country." - Master of Ossus
Post Reply