Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

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Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by RogueIce »

The St. Petersburg Times wrote:Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move
By Michael Kruse, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Saturday, December 4, 2010


ST. PETERSBURG — A man on a moped crashed into a man in an electric wheelchair the other night in the middle of Fourth Street. There on the front page of the paper was a police tape picture of one of those objects we see all over. The wheeled mobility industry calls it a power chair.

They're everywhere, it seems, dotting the downtown streetscape, a kind of ant trail from the condos to the Publix and back.

The temptation is to declare these are the new symbols of this city. Used to be folks sitting on green benches, God's waiting room and whatnot, and now it's folks sitting on … these.

Truth is, though, power chairs and mobility scooters are far from just a Florida phenomenon, and mishaps are not unusual.

A 60-year-old man in Minnesota took his scooter to the store to get some Jell-O and ended up under a Ford Expedition. A 70-year-old woman on a scooter got hit by a Chrysler in Nebraska. A 79-year-old man on a scooter drowned in a marina in South Dakota. All that's just this year.

Electric mobility devices, or EMDs, are everywhere because of trends in geriatrics and bariatrics. Those are the portions of the health care industry that deal with old people and fat people.

This is America, getting bigger and older, fatter and grayer, rolling into the future.

• • •

The Brits, or at least some of them, call these devices "invalid carriages."

We the (power chair) People are more euphemistically inclined.

Hoveround, based in Sarasota, is the nation's leading direct-to-consumer power chair manufacturer. The founder and owner says he offers his customers "freedom," "independence," and "convenience," words more stirringly American than invalid.

The many manufacturers of these EMDs, most of which opened for business about 20 years ago, give their wheeled products such names as Pioneer and Frontier, Victory and Celebrity, Super Scout and TravelScoot, Sunrunner and Sundancer, Scootie, Snazzy and Jazzy, Amigo, Avenger and Go Go Elite.

But the cops? They don't know what to call them.

This conundrum came up after the Fourth Street wreck in which the moped driver died. Are these devices motor vehicles? They do have electric motors, and they are vehicles of a sort, but that description doesn't sound quite right. They don't need to be registered, after all, and they don't have state plates. And what about the people in them? They don't need a license. Does that make them pedestrians? They're clearly not using their feet.

Mulling over the confusion, Mike Puetz, a spokesman for the St. Petersburg police, this week started talking about "wattage" and "horsepower."

A couple items to consider.

So there's a woman in Minnesota. She takes her Pride scooter to her local White Castle and steers her way into the drive-through. They won't serve her. Pedestrians aren't allowed, for their own safety, the company says. They only serve registered motor vehicles in the drive-through. The woman is of course neither.

What to do?

Here's another one. This happened earlier this year in Bradenton. A 73-year-old man goes to a bar called the Oasis, drinks till he's drunk, leaves on his scooter, gets hit by a car. He's hurt, but not killed. The cops cite him for walking into the path of the car.

It's an ant trail of Amigos headed straight for a legal gray area.

• • •

State law says motorized wheelchairs are allowed on a road where the speed limit is 25 or less, or on a bicycle path, or in a crosswalk even if that crosswalk is on a road that has a speed limit of more than 25.

State law also says sidewalks are for pedestrians. No motors.

Hmm.

This is to say nothing of the fact that the manufacturers of EMDs say (even if they don't really mean) that their products aren't meant for outdoor use. Medicare, which last year paid out $547 million for power chairs, won't pay for an EMD unless it's specifically meant for indoor use.

The makers of laws, the enforcers of laws, they need to figure this stuff out, and quick.

Because Bob Gouy of United Seating and Mobility says Americans buy something like 65,000 power chairs and mobility scooters annually, and that number, he adds, is going up every year by as much as 15 percent.

Because this year, the Scooter Store in Texas, the nation's leading manufacturer, celebrated the sale of its 500,000th scooter, and that's up from 300,000 in just the last two years.

It's hard to quantify Americans' usage of EMDs. What's certain, though, is where those numbers are headed.

Up, up, up.

"We expect our sales to increase," Scooter Store spokesman J.D. Franke said, "as our population ages."

By 2025, say Census estimates, the number of people in this country 65 or older will be 66 million.

Meanwhile, two in every three Americans are overweight, one in every three is obese, and childhood obesity has tripled in the last 30 years.

"We're going to see more and more people riding around in scooters and wheelchairs," said Mike Moran, the executive editor of a leading home medical equipment trade publication, "because we're going to see more and more old people who can't walk and more and more heavy people who can't walk."

One of the newest scooters has headlights and brake lights. One of the newest power chairs has a "shatterproof" cup holder.

And last month, at a medical equipment trade show in Atlanta, Moran saw a product on its way to market that made him gasp.

"Oh. My. God," he said. A power chair for a 600-pound person.
OK, I know it'll be easy to go on about the fat people, so I'll just get it out of the way first: I know there are some medical conditions which can lead to morbid obesity, but seriously...if you're 600 pounds, medical condition or not, I'd think you should be somewhere getting treated, not putting around on a power scooter.

With that out of the way, they are of course also used by old people who have difficulty walking because their bodies are just wearing out. And while they're apparently not supposed to be used outdoors, needless to say people still use them as such. And the article raises some good points on the apparent difficulty in classifying them given our current legal language.

So what are your thoughts? Ban power scooters for outdoor use, and keep them indoors? (Medicare seems to think so) Or...?
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by Mayabird »

When dealing with the elderly, you always have that problem of safety to everyone else. It's like with driving cars - their eyesight and hearing could be declining, their reflexes are getting poor, etc., so how safe is it really to let them drive? The solution is often to make them have to retake driving tests or do some sort of certification every few years to make sure they are still capable of driving without accidentally running down a bunch of kids or whatever. They may need some sort of licensing to be able to use the motor carts on public sidewalks or streets, probably not to driver's license levels but just something to check that they can still react quickly enough to things that are going on and won't be making too many mistakes.

Though speaking of drivers, I'm wondering about those two deaths where the invalid carriage drivers (and I love that and plan to use it whenever some self-righteous morbidly obese person is riding one) ended up hit by cars and how much at fault the drivers were. Also how old the car drivers were.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by General Zod »

Mayabird wrote:When dealing with the elderly, you always have that problem of safety to everyone else. It's like with driving cars - their eyesight and hearing could be declining, their reflexes are getting poor, etc., so how safe is it really to let them drive? The solution is often to make them have to retake driving tests or do some sort of certification every few years to make sure they are still capable of driving without accidentally running down a bunch of kids or whatever. They may need some sort of licensing to be able to use the motor carts on public sidewalks or streets, probably not to driver's license levels but just something to check that they can still react quickly enough to things that are going on and won't be making too many mistakes.

Though speaking of drivers, I'm wondering about those two deaths where the invalid carriage drivers (and I love that and plan to use it whenever some self-righteous morbidly obese person is riding one) ended up hit by cars and how much at fault the drivers were. Also how old the car drivers were.
I wouldn't be surprised if the vehicle accidents were the result of cars coming around a corner and the fatties couldn't roll out of the way fast enough. Whether the drivers or the fatties weren't paying enough attention is up in the air.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by Stormin »

There are many of these things in my town and I have never seen one use a sidewalk unless it was getting into or out of a building. Instead they drive in the middle of the road lanes at slow speeds and force cars to go around them.

The police here even said that it was a problem but their hands are tied because they don't want to risk a public backlash over seeming to harass the elderly. (local paper, not archived online so can't source directly :/ )
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by Zaune »

Minor point of correction. The term 'invalid carriage' has fallen out of favour, at least colloquially, and they're now known as 'mobility scooters' in Britain. And I've a hazy idea it's actually illegal to drive them on a public road over here if there's a pavement available, though I think they're permitted in cycle lanes.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by Knife »

They need to do something about them in outdoor settings. Those things are no joke, and heavy as hell. Some of the bigger ones, and nicer ones, are around 700lbs. Just in inside use, I've seen people be run over by them and it hurts like hell, if not breaks a bone in your foot, or even injures the driver because 700lbs of machine is more than enough to crack a tib/fib if you snag it on a wall going around a corner.

Those are all common in a health care setting where use of these things is common enough that you're used to them and make room for them. Now take that and put it out on the street with a denser population that has no idea about them. It is a problem.

The only down side is grandpa thinking he has his 'freedom' back, marketing doesn't help with this either, and will resist it massively along with AARP I'm sure.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by Akhlut »

Mayabird wrote:Though speaking of drivers, I'm wondering about those two deaths where the invalid carriage drivers (and I love that and plan to use it whenever some self-righteous morbidly obese person is riding one) ended up hit by cars and how much at fault the drivers were. Also how old the car drivers were.
I've had encounters with those things where they were out in the street (a hilly street with a 35mph speed limit) and nearly hit the person on the invalid carriage, in spite of a nearby sidewalk. I've also seen several of them on the road and I've worried about killing people because of it.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by Temujin »

These things really piss me off. The commercials makes it seem really great to help restore mobility to people, but then you realize a lot of them are the same kind of people who could never drive worth a shit or who walk into you at the mall cause they're not paying attention to where they're going.

I haven't, fortunately, had much experience with them on the road. Instead I used to encounter them at grocery and department stores, usually driven by older (but not elderly) obese white trash. They would routinely block up the aisles and try to bully their way through groups of people, literally bumping into your legs if you didn't move fast enough. With behavior like that, I'm not surprised they're becoming a hazard in and around the roads. Maybe they'll need to start requiring some level of training, a license and routine testing for people who operate these things.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

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RogueIce wrote:So what are your thoughts? Ban power scooters for outdoor use, and keep them indoors? (Medicare seems to think so) Or...?
If you ban ALL outdoor use you make the disabled prisoners in their own homes.

The problem here is that they aren't safe to drive on the road, and in the wrong hands not safe anywhere else. As pointed out, some of these are heavy machines capable of doing damage if mishandled. There are, I'm sure, some people due to (lack of) eyesight, reaction times, or other problem who have no business driving these things. It shouldn't be a matter of "you can't walk well/at all - you get a scooter" but also "you have to demonstrate you're safe to use one".

Better definitions, better regulations, clear authority for the cops to enforce regulations and punish misuse.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by Psychic_Sandwich »

If you ban ALL outdoor use you make the disabled prisoners in their own homes.

The problem here is that they aren't safe to drive on the road, and in the wrong hands not safe anywhere else. As pointed out, some of these are heavy machines capable of doing damage if mishandled. There are, I'm sure, some people due to (lack of) eyesight, reaction times, or other problem who have no business driving these things. It shouldn't be a matter of "you can't walk well/at all - you get a scooter" but also "you have to demonstrate you're safe to use one".

Better definitions, better regulations, clear authority for the cops to enforce regulations and punish misus
It's more than just them needing to be physically 'fit' to use them in terms of eyesight etc. There should be mandatory training akin to driving licenses, if not quite so strict. My understanding is that it's illegal to use them on the roads, here, so they're limited to pavements and cycle lanes (where the latter exist). Of course, this causes a problem when the riders send them whizzing along at speed, taking up the entire pavement and forcing people to step out into traffic to avoid them or be run down. That's not poor eyesight, it's just unsafe usage, and it should be illegal.

This is the reason it's illegal to ride bicycles on pavements in Britain. Since mobility scooters have to use them, the riders should be required to prove that they can use them safely or do without.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by aieeegrunt »

A significant percentage of the drivers of these things have the most ridiculous entitlement complex I've ever seen. Not only have I seen them tootlying along on major roads, but often they'll just sail through stop signs and whatnot and it's up to the car driver to somehow avoid disaster.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by Solauren »

My grandmother is in a scooter as a result of her health issues (she's lost alot of her lung capacity).

However, my grandmother has more brains then most people that need these.

The Scooter stays in her van. If she needs to go someplace, my parents (or someone else) drives her with her van. The scooter comes out in the parking lot, she uses it to get around the stores (at the same pace as the person she is with), and the scooter goes back into the van when they are done shopping.

She has never driving it 'down the street', at least on the street. I have no idea if she goes down the sidewalk with it, but I seriously doubt it. She hates going out alone anymore.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by Coyote »

More than a few times I've seen huge people walk (waddle, grunt, etc) into a store and the grab one of these things waiting by the shopping carts to start puttering away. I want to smack 'em. If you can walk, use the regular shopping carts, dammit!

They are a nuisance and a danger. And, yes, the people in them seem to think they are entitled to barge through anywhere. People should have a basic test of ability and be licensed --not as stringent as a driver's license, because they are not intended to be on the road.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by cosmicalstorm »

To give people an impression of the power of some of those devices. Watch this video. Not for the squeamish though.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by Atlan »

cosmicalstorm wrote:To give people an impression of the power of some of those devices. Watch this video. Not for the squeamish though.
-SNIP-
I'm sorry, but the only person in that video I'm concerned with is the one that stepped onto the elevator before the idiot in the invalid carriage arrived. Because if that's real, than someone was almost literally too dumb to live.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by Zaune »

The hell...? That's either staged or a suicide attempt.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by Jawawithagun »

Homicidal-suicidal, just like seemingly most scooter riders I see on the street and in the shops.
Especially with the current pre-Christmas crowd. The aisles in some shops are tight enough with people walking around them on their own two legs, never mind one of the morons on a scooter trying to barge through.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by DPDarkPrimus »

I see obese people using the store-provided scooters at the store I work at all the time, and it angers me to no end, especially when most of them using them seem to get around just fine when they aren't available for use.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

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DPDarkPrimus wrote:I see obese people using the store-provided scooters at the store I work at all the time, and it angers me to no end, especially when most of them using them seem to get around just fine when they aren't available for use.
I always thought those things looked nifty and was tempted to try one just to try one (not because I was too fucking lazy to walk, mind,) but I never did because of the thought that some old grannie might need one and not have it.

The only time I've ever been sat in one was when I fell at a store and twisted my ankle. (It was my own bloody fault, BTW.)

As for that guy at the elevator, what the fuck was going through his mind at the time? I mean, other than his headrest when he hit the bottom. The only people I feel sorry for are the poor sod who was in the car (doubtful the car's roof was rated to hold up to that shit,) the emergency workers who have to try and extricate the asshole and his victim from the wreckage, and the poor sod who has to clean up the mess.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by Broomstick »

Well, hell, the guy going down the elevator shaft may have been drunk or high at the time - that's usually a factor in such grandiose stupidity. Just cause someone's handicapped doesn't mean they can't fuck themselves up further with psychoactive chemicals.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Broomstick wrote:Well, hell, the guy going down the elevator shaft may have been drunk or high at the time - that's usually a factor in such grandiose stupidity. Just cause someone's handicapped doesn't mean they can't fuck themselves up further with psychoactive chemicals.
True, and in fact quite possible...

Still, we shouldn't necessarily discount raw human pigheaded stupidity. If someone is trying to catch an elevator in a real damn hurry and someone else gets the doors shut and starts descending, the person left trapped above might be inclined to kick the door.

If he can't kick it, he can always ram it with his invalid carriage. After all, it's an elevator door, it's sturdy, not gonna give, and it felt real good to let out the stress by doing it once, may as well do it again, and hey, this doesn't even hurt like kicking the door would. I'm gonna rear back and give it the beans, really vent my spleen and OH HOLY SHIT I'M IN AN ELEVATOR SHAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-*splat*

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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by lance »

I could by that if it wasn't for how the door behaved when he hit it the second time.

There is an area of fitness when walking becomes difficult where the carts would be extremely useful. Like when due to age the person can barely walk with out being winded.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by General Zod »

lance wrote:I could by that if it wasn't for how the door behaved when he hit it the second time.

There is an area of fitness when walking becomes difficult where the carts would be extremely useful. Like when due to age the person can barely walk with out being winded.
One of the client managers uses one whenever I've seen her, but that's largely due to the fact that she's over 50 and has an artificial hip, which tends to limit her mobility.
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by Broomstick »

Coyote wrote:More than a few times I've seen huge people walk (waddle, grunt, etc) into a store and the grab one of these things waiting by the shopping carts to start puttering away. I want to smack 'em. If you can walk, use the regular shopping carts, dammit!
The problem is that while some people appear normal when they walk, walking actually IS much more difficult for them. That's not counting those who visibly can't walk normally. You can be able to walk yet still have very restricted mobility, and the problem can arise from several causes - joint problems, nerve damage, circulatory/heart problems, neurological disorders, muscle damage, lung damage that restricts oxygenation of the body... And yes, obesity, but the obese aren't going to lose all that weight in time for them to go shopping this week.
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General Zod
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Re: Power chairs: older and fatter Americans are on the move

Post by General Zod »

General Zod wrote:
lance wrote:I could by that if it wasn't for how the door behaved when he hit it the second time.

There is an area of fitness when walking becomes difficult where the carts would be extremely useful. Like when due to age the person can barely walk with out being winded.
One of the client managers uses one whenever I've seen her, but that's largely due to the fact that she's over 50 and has an artificial hip, which tends to limit her mobility.
Ghetto edit: One of the client managers at my job, in case it wasn't clear enough.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
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