DADT halted in military.

[SirNitram]

Link

The Pentagon has ordered a halt to all separations of gay troops under “don’t ask, don’t tell” and will begin accepting applications from prospective recruits who identify themselves as homosexuals.

The moratorium issued Friday came after a ruling Wednesday by a federal appeals court in California ordering the Defense Department to immediately stop enforcing the law. The court said the law is unconstitutional because it treats gay Americans differently under the law.

Meanwhile, defense officials will continue to prepare for the law’s formal repeal, which Congress approved in December. The law will be formally repealed 60 days after the defense secretary and chairman of the Joint Chiefs “certify” that it will not adversely impact military readiness.

Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he expected certification to occur in late July or early August.

It remains unclear whether the Pentagon will seek to appeal Wednesday’s court ruling, which would have to go to the Supreme Court, Pentagon spokesman Marine Col. David Lapan said Friday.

Troops are currently undergoing training programs to clarify the law and ensure a smooth transition to its repeal. Most of that training is expected to be completed by this summer, yet there is no requirement that 100 percent of the force must be trained prior to repeal, Pentagon spokeswoman Eileen Lainez said.

In October, the Pentagon raised the bar for separation of gay troops by requiring the civilian service secretaries and the Pentagon’s top lawyer to approve any separation. Since then, four troops have been separated under the law.

And it looks like we're basically done. The certification would be done before the appeal gets higher.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Nice, I look forward to a flood of "outed" members re-enlisting back int the forces.
Also look forward to a huge crumbeling in anti gay angst. When a few years has passed without the end of the world happening, we might get a lot of people wondering what the big deal was about all this time.

[Cecelia5578]

The next big thing this will unleash will be marriage equality. Openly gay servicemembers are gonna want to get married in jurisdictions that allow same sex marriage, and are gonna want the same benefits that married heterosexual servicemembers get. Its really going to challenge the part of DOMA that forbids the federal government from recognizing same sex marriages.

[SirNitram]

Sooner or later, DOMA will hit the Full Faith And Credit Clause, and DOMA will splatter.

[eion]

And the Army goes rolling along.

The pieces are in place now for the next great civil rights victory nationwide. Very soon now, gay Service members will serve openly and as has been said, a lot of them are going to get married and they will want their spouses to have the same rights that sex discordant spouses have. This is the beginning of the end of institutionalized homophobia in America, at least I hope so.

[Purple]

Just for the record, what exactly are these rights and privileges? I am asking since I really have no idea where even to look for the data and have only a

[Lonestar]

Just for the record, what exactly are these rights and privileges? I am asking since I really have no idea where even to look for the data and have only a

The main benefit you get for being married in the military is that you get a housing allowance(BAH). For everyone but the Air Force the very low ranking enlisted do not get BAH for awhile, so there is a prevalence of scam marriages in order to get out of the barracks/ship. So if someone gets married in, say, New York(say he or she is a soldier assigned to Fort Drum) the soldier in question will try to get BAH for living out in town.

Hmm...actually it's a stretch to call off base in Fort Drum "out in town", but you get my drift.

The pennypinchers in the DoD(and I'll be honest, I'm one of them) are hesitant to extend same sex benefits because as bad as the gaming of the system is with straight folks getting scam marriages, it'll get worse. There'll be junior enlisted servicemen who will buddy up and get married in order to get out of the barracks at while E-nothings. But like Nitram said, I suspect that this'll come to a head within a year in places like NY and DOMA will crash and burn because of it, which will ultimately be a good thing(and then there won't be any wiggle room on the part of the DoD to not grant BAH to same sex couples).

[PeZook]

Just introduce a DoD approved ceremony for interservices marriage. It must include a kiss at the end, otherwise the marriage is invalid

[Serafina]

I doubt this will happen on a massive scale. Otherwise, one would expect every woman in the military to marry a male soldier, too, just to get the advantages.

[Lonestar]

I doubt this will happen on a massive scale. Otherwise, one would expect every woman in the military to marry a male soldier, too, just to get the advantages.

It does happen on a "massive scale". It just doesn't really make the news because of the altar of "our fighting men and women can do no wrong" and, of course, it is very hard to prove that a scam marriage is a scam marriage.

In fact, me Alyium and Kendall had it out over a news story about two (alleged)Lesbians who set up scam marriages to get off base housing. It's just usually it's a male serviceman who marries some townie to get the benefits. What was noteworthy about that particular story wasn't that a scam marriage had occurred, but that it made the national news.

[Lonestar]

Just introduce a DoD approved ceremony for interservices marriage. It must include a kiss at the end, otherwise the marriage is invalid

Usually you can't use DoD chapels without using a Chaplain...which basically means a protestant chaplain, as catholic(or other) chaplains are as rare as teeth on a hen. So now you're forcing members to get married with a service that won't reflect their own beliefs.

[Zed]

Chapels aren't a necessary requirement for marriage.

[PeZook]

Usually you can't use DoD chapels without using a Chaplain...which basically means a protestant chaplain, as catholic(or other) chaplains are as rare as teeth on a hen. So now you're forcing members to get married with a service that won't reflect their own beliefs.

For the record, I am aware of the multitude of problems with this approach, and not just religious ones

It would sift through fake gay soldiers pretty effectively, though

[Skgoa]

Really? I don't know about americans, but I am confident enough in my masculinity and my sexuality that I would kiss another man if it had any benefit to me. Yes, I understand that a test group comprising of me alone might not be a representative selection. But if people are willing to get married for these benefits... is one little kiss really going to stop them?

[Serafina]

I know that you're kidding, PeZook, but I'd find such a approach very wrong

Why?
Quite simply because it is based on the model that marriage is ultimately based on sex. But it is not, it is about people taking responsibility for each other. That is what every family unit in history was actually about - parents take responsibility for their children, siblings take responsibility for each other, spouses take responsibility for each other.
A marriage is no less valid because those involved in it are not sexually attracted to each other. Nor can we validly judge it by whether they love each other, because that is simply too variable a term.

The "marriage is about sex"-approach has been used to support quite a few wrongs. Not only is a lot of anti-homosexual propaganda ultimately based on it, it was also used to justify humiliating investigations (exactly like the one you are proposing, tough going a bit further) to detect "fake marriages" to prevent immigration etc.

[Cecelia5578]

Just introduce a DoD approved ceremony for interservices marriage. It must include a kiss at the end, otherwise the marriage is invalid

Usually you can't use DoD chapels without using a Chaplain...which basically means a protestant chaplain, as catholic(or other) chaplains are as rare as teeth on a hen. So now you're forcing members to get married with a service that won't reflect their own beliefs.

And most of those Protestant chaplains aren't liberal mainline Protestants who wear rainbow stoles and march in pride parades.

[Lonestar]

Really? I don't know about americans, but I am confident enough in my masculinity and my sexuality that I would kiss another man if it had any benefit to me. Yes, I understand that a test group comprising of me alone might not be a representative selection. But if people are willing to get married for these benefits... is one little kiss really going to stop them?

If before they didn't have to show a PDA in front of the CO? Yup.

[Batman]

As I very much doubt that in this case PDA stands for Personal Digital Assistant, what does it stand for?

[SCRawl]

As I very much doubt that in this case PDA stands for Personal Digital Assistant, what does it stand for?

Public Displays of Affection. As in holding hands, hugging, kissing, etc. in front of other people.

[Batman]

Thank you.

[eion]

Just introduce a DoD approved ceremony for interservices marriage. It must include a kiss at the end, otherwise the marriage is invalid

Usually you can't use DoD chapels without using a Chaplain...which basically means a protestant chaplain, as catholic(or other) chaplains are as rare as teeth on a hen. So now you're forcing members to get married with a service that won't reflect their own beliefs.

And most of those Protestant chaplains aren't liberal mainline Protestants who wear rainbow stoles and march in pride parades.

Chaplains are adaptable warriors for god(s). Give them 15 minutes and their handy Chaplain's Handbook and they can do a Satanic funeral followed by a neopagan hand-fasting ceremony if the need arises. They are expected to adapt themselves to the requirements of their audience. They serve the service members and I have every confidence they will continue to serve the gay service members as well if not better than before the repeal of DADT. If they don't want to guess what? They can retire, nobody drafted them in anyway.

And there are lots of other benefits besides the housing allowance that same-sex military couples will want. Scam marriages entered into by anyone should be prosecuted as a fraud on the government, and ought not to reflect on the honest people who love each other and want to be together.

[Lonestar]

Chaplains are adaptable warriors for god(s). Give them 15 minutes and their handy Chaplain's Handbook and they can do a Satanic funeral followed by a neopagan hand-fasting ceremony if the need arises. They are expected to adapt themselves to the requirements of their audience. They serve the service members and I have every confidence they will continue to serve the gay service members as well if not better than before the repeal of DADT. If they don't want to guess what? They can retire, nobody drafted them in anyway.

Jesus Christ you are ignorant as to how most Chaplains in the US military operate. Most will not perform services that clash with their religious views. I really wish you jackasses wouldn't comment on military life if you haven't lived in it. And no, I don't mean "my pappy was a officer and I lived in base housing".

And there are lots of other benefits besides the housing allowance that same-sex military couples will want. Scam marriages entered into by anyone should be prosecuted as a fraud on the government, and ought not to reflect on the honest people who love each other and want to be together.

True, but your average junior enlisted see's the pimrary benefit of getting married is the BAH. They go out and marry too early, or get into scam marriages, in order to get out of the barracks.

[eion]

Chaplains are adaptable warriors for god(s). Give them 15 minutes and their handy Chaplain's Handbook and they can do a Satanic funeral followed by a neopagan hand-fasting ceremony if the need arises. They are expected to adapt themselves to the requirements of their audience. They serve the service members and I have every confidence they will continue to serve the gay service members as well if not better than before the repeal of DADT. If they don't want to guess what? They can retire, nobody drafted them in anyway.

Jesus Christ you are ignorant as to how most Chaplains in the US military operate. Most will not perform services that clash with their religious views. I really wish you jackasses wouldn't comment on military life if you haven't lived in it. And no, I don't mean "my pappy was a officer and I lived in base housing".

I think the key phrase you are overlooking is "if the need arises". While it was hyperbole on my part to say that a Military Chaplain would be happy to perform a satanic funeral or neopagan handfasting, it is quite another thing to say they would be entirely unwilling to perform a funeral or other important religious ritual for someone outside their flock if a member of clergy of that faith could not be found. It's all a matter of degrees; Is there a big enough difference between a Baptist and a Methodist that a Methodist servicemember will care if he's being comforted by a Baptist Chaplain after he's been shot? etc.

But perhaps chaplains are far less egalitarian than this former army brat was led to believe. If so, perhaps we ought to stop paying for them with government funds. But I digress.

And there are lots of other benefits besides the housing allowance that same-sex military couples will want. Scam marriages entered into by anyone should be prosecuted as a fraud on the government, and ought not to reflect on the honest people who love each other and want to be together.

True, but your average junior enlisted see's the pimrary benefit of getting married is the BAH. They go out and marry too early, or get into scam marriages, in order to get out of the barracks.

So up the penalty for defrauding the DoD via a scam marriage and include the spouse in such penalties. Straight people have been abusing the BAH for decades it seems, about damn time G&L people got in on this sweet scam.

[Lonestar]

I think the key phrase you are overlooking is "if the need arises". While it was hyperbole on my part to say that a Military Chaplain would be happy to perform a satanic funeral or neopagan handfasting, it is quite another thing to say they would be entirely unwilling to perform a funeral or other important religious ritual for someone outside their flock if a member of clergy of that faith could not be found.

Gordan Klingenschmitt, a Navy Chaplain who got kicked out for protesting in uniform, told a the parents of a catholic sailor at his funeral that his son was in hell but there was still a chance to save their souls(which is what he was protesting about, that the captain had ordered his ass dragged off the ship right then and there). One might call that a "one-off" if it wasn't for the fact that the chaplain of my own ship at the time was sending shipwide emails talking about how athiest activists were taking away the rights of Klingenschmitt and other evangelicals to be jackasses. He also did everything possibly to impede the Catholic lay service from being performed in the ships classroom/media center/courtroom/chapel. It's pretty much caused me to view protestant chaplains in a negative light.

It's all a matter of degrees; Is there a big enough difference between a Baptist and a Methodist that a Methodist servicemember will care if he's being comforted by a Baptist Chaplain after he's been shot? etc.

It rather depends more on how the chaplain view things.

But perhaps chaplains are far less egalitarian than this former army brat was led to believe. If so, perhaps we ought to stop paying for them with government funds. But I digress.

Catholic Chaplains are a lot more likely to suck it up and follow orders. They're also as rare as hen's teeth.

So up the penalty for defrauding the DoD via a scam marriage and include the spouse in such penalties. Straight people have been abusing the BAH for decades it seems, about damn time G&L people got in on this sweet scam.

NCIS(or your service investigative agency) doesn't have the manpower to go investigate everyone just on hearsay.

[Dalton]

It's back in effect.

The military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy is back in place for the time being, with one major caveat: the government is not allowed to investigate, penalize or discharge anyone who is openly gay.

A San Francisco federal appeals court ordered the military to temporarily continue the controversial policy in an order late Friday, the court's response to a request from the Obama administration.

The order is the latest twist in the legal limbo gay service members have found themselves in as the policy is fought in the courts simultaneous to its slow dismantling by the federal government, which expects to do away with it by later this year.

In its three-page ruling, the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals said the ruling was based on new information provided by the federal government, including a declaration from Major General Steven A. Hummer, who is leading the effort to repeal the policy.

"In order to provide this court with an opportunity to consider fully the issues presented in the light of these previously undisclosed facts," the court wrote, that it would uphold an earlier order to keep the policy in place.

The court of appeals had halted "don't ask, don't tell" July 6 but the Department of Justice filed an emergency motion Thursday saying ending the policy now would pre-empt the orderly process for rolling it back, per a law signed by President Barack Obama in December.

If it really is only because of a matter of procedure...get on with it.