Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-12/c ... re/2881702
Labor Caucus backs offshore processing
Jeremy Thompson
Updated September 12, 2011 14:55:55

Labor's Caucus has agreed to legislation that will overturn the High Court ruling that the Malaysian deal on asylum seekers is unlawful.

If passed, the bill would allow Australia to send 800 asylum seekers to Malaysia and use Papua New Guinea's Manus Island as a backup centre.

During a two-and-a-half-hour spirited debate, a motion by Left faction senator Doug Cameron to allow onshore processing was defeated, although several members from both Left and Right factions spoke in support.

However, the Opposition has vowed to oppose the so-called Malaysian solution and may join the Greens to defeat the new bill in Parliament.

The amendments to the Migration Act, described by Prime Minister Julia Gillard as "broad in nature", will be introduced to Parliament next week.

"They will enable the government of the day to design and implement its best solution," Ms Gillard told a press conference at Parliament House.

"The best solution from our point of view is the arrangement with Malaysia with a complementary centre in PNG."

She said the amendments would give executive government the ability "to make the arrangements that it sees fit for the transfer and processing of asylum seekers in third countries".

Ms Gillard warned Opposition Leader Tony Abbott against opposing the amendments, saying he too will need the legislation if he forms a government in the future.

She said the "crystal clear advice" to government was that sending asylum seekers to Nauru does not work because if they are genuine refugees, they are very likely to be resettled in Australia.

"People smugglers have got that message and they now understand that a processing centre on Nauru is really just like another Christmas Island. If your claim is accepted, then you will be settled in Australia," she said.

Immigration Minister Chris Bowen said onshore processing would blow the budget estimates out to $4 billion, "billions more than in the budget".

Ms Gillard said the deal with Malaysia meant people would not have their claims processed in Australia but would be sent to the back of the asylum seeker queue.

In Caucus, 23 people spoke both for and against the amendment, in what was described as a robust debate.

ABC News Online understands it was not divided on ideological lines, with some from the Left supporting the Prime Minister's amendment, while some on the Right preferring to bring all asylum seeker processing onshore.

In the end, Ms Gillard's amendment was carried on the voices.

The Coalition favours processing in Nauru and Mr Abbott has questioned the Government's new policy.

"Given that Nauru has signed the refugee convention and Malaysia has not why is the Prime Minister persisting with a policy that has been rejected by the High Court and many in her own party and offends every principle that she has ever espoused?" he said.

With the Greens implacably opposed, the Government will need the support of the Coalition to pass its legislation.

Greens leader Bob Brown said the amendments would lead Australia "to the harsh side of treatment of asylum seekers of John Howard and Philip Ruddock".

"We want onshore processing because it's just, it's legal, it's humane, and subsidiary to that it saves taxpayers billions of dollars," Senator Brown said.

He pointed to an opinion poll published today that showed most Australians support onshore processing.
TL;DR The High Court of Australia ruled that the Commonwealth Government's controversial policy of having offshore processing of asylum seekers take place in Malaysia (of all places) was against the law. So this government has now decided it wants to change the law. Despite the fact that many people on the left are opposed to it, it's not exactly a popular solution (the article mentions a poll which you can read about here, that says there isn't really a majority will for offshore processing), and it's also the expensive solution (offshore processing costs a significant amount more than onshore processing).

This government is a joke, and it won't be re-elected next polling day.

EDIT: emphasis added; just you know, in case anyone thought that the processing of asylum seekers was actually ABOUT whether they were genuine refugees
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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Seriously is there a reason Australia is so absurdly awful at this? Why do they seem to hold refugees so long/process them so slowly?

This offshore stuff is just a laughable extreme result of avoiding the issue for a decade (maybe longer).
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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If I was a cynic I might say that there would be politicians who may stand to financially benefit from having Serco hold onto folks for months and years longer than necessary at a cost to the taxpayer of up to $750 per day.

Or, I could just say that racism is an easy answer to the "how do I swing the bogan vote" question.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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That part I bolded from the article is just... unimaginable. It's not even about separating the genuine refugees from the 'queue jumpers'. Look at what Julia's saying. If we stick with Nauru and the asylum seeker is determined to be genuine, they have MORE of a chance at resettlement into Australia. CAN'T HAVE THAT CAN WE. Everything about this is making it hard for asylum seekers to come here, get in and so on, with the narrative being about deterring people smugglers. The smugglers are going to be deterred... by punishing the people who are desperate enough to have themselves smuggled? The fuck.

I just don't get this government. Julia has to know she's fucked. Or is she that conceited that she thinks she can swing this into a comeback? When will Labor wake up and realise they fucked up axing Krudd?
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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At some level, the whole idea of taking refugees has been totally lost. Maybe it was Howard's fault, but the attitude doesn't seem to be 'our goal is to determine the validity of refugee status for these people and proceed accordingly', it seems to be 'if we let even one of those bastards in here...'

Absurd doublethink examples like whole multi-million dollar prison islands being kept open to house one guy isn't even the real issue - it's that nobody else who pretended to care about refugees takes this long.

I guess it's obvious, but perhaps this is due to the STOP THE BOATS stuff working to conflate evil Indo invaders of slanty-eyed job stealing with refugees - the media certainly tries to paint refugees in general as bad people stealing our welfare, when if this was the case you'd just send them all bad rather than hold them for years and years and years in prison islands.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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Fuck I'd love it if we just let them all in to go on Welfare.

That way we'd only be outlaying the average daily rate for detention each week (at most). Plus it would actually boost the chances that they'd integrate into society better, have job opportunities etc.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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Ironically, 'job stealing' and 'welfare stealing' basically covers every possible result. No matter what sort of person enters Australia, they'll be hurting AUSSIE MATESHIP BATTLERS somehow. :)
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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Stofsk wrote:That part I bolded from the article is just... unimaginable. It's not even about separating the genuine refugees from the 'queue jumpers'. Look at what Julia's saying. If we stick with Nauru and the asylum seeker is determined to be genuine, they have MORE of a chance at resettlement into Australia. CAN'T HAVE THAT CAN WE. Everything about this is making it hard for asylum seekers to come here, get in and so on, with the narrative being about deterring people smugglers. The smugglers are going to be deterred... by punishing the people who are desperate enough to have themselves smuggled? The fuck.

I just don't get this government. Julia has to know she's fucked. Or is she that conceited that she thinks she can swing this into a comeback? When will Labor wake up and realise they fucked up axing Krudd?
Two years is a long time in politics, and the fact that caucus backed this suggests to me they're not interested in winning so much as survival...between this, the carbon tax and pokies reform Labor is looking at total destruction in it's heartland. They have to do something to stem the bleeding and the dog whistle politics of being tough on refugees works, or so they think.

That said, this government is in a fucking tough bind because after what happened on Christmas Island last year 'breaking the people's smugglers business model'* got a moral dimension. There weren't any cameras on the Siev X but there sure as fuck were on those poor people drowning when that boat hit the rocks and Australia's most syndicated columnist ( :roll: ) pointed the finger squarely at onshore processing. People realise that asylum seekers go through insane dangers to get here, but I suspect they've become so used to a debate focused solely on offshore processing and stopping the boats they see policies like that as helping.

* I would love to see some actual figures on this - comparisons of immigration policy, number of boats arriving, and regional events (pretty sure upsurge in violence in Afghanistan and that whole Sri Lankan civil war might have had something to do with the increase in the number of arrivals).

** this might sound trite but where the fuck is Ian Chappel? I remember him being absolutely aghast at the Howard government's immigration policies, but haven't heard shit from him in the last 18 months. Can hardly be dismissed as a latte-sipping leftie either, he's one of our top bogan heroes.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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I guess you'd hope it was politically motivated in this way, because otherwise it's just uselessly ineffective.

It's actually kind of amazing that Labor has so totally fucked itself up and may be fucking up other people to try to hide it.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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When will Labor wake up and realise they fucked up axing Krudd?
They didn't. Rudd is not so different to Obama in that he talks a good game, but hasn't got the spine to push policies through in the face of any opposition from almost anywhere, put him back in chargfe and in a month people will remember why they hated him.. Gillard is unpopular, sure, and probably won't win the next election unless it turns out Tony Abbot murdered someone, but she is at least attempting to get shit done, even if its only because her hand is being forced.

The people who need sacking are the labor media advisers. I don't think they have successfully sold a single policy for the entire term of government, and are just letting this whole 'worst PM ever' shit slide without a fight.

On topic, this is a joke. Changing laws so we can treat people in an inhumane fashion legally doesn't make it right, just legal. It's the sort of shit that started loosing them votes to the greens in the first place, and the people that approve by and large are rusted on coalition voters anyway. Who the fuck comes up with these plans. I'd think saying "yeah, its illegal, the pacific solution was too. Sorry, that's the law, this is what we can do" would be a better option, but what the fuck do I know, I'm probably a latte sipping lefty.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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Yeah after reading Cassidy's (we call him Barry...everywhere) The Party Thieves kinda hard to feel sorry for KRudd. Guy's an ego-driven fuckwit, even by the standards of politicians. He came close to costing Labor the election purely through his own bile.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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I don't feel sorry for Krudd at all. I just think it was a huge mistake to knife him. Think back to last year; he sprung that whole 'mining tax' thing and within weeks was axed. Maybe ironically considering I agree with your assessment of him Alkaloid, but Krudd was replaced just as he was trying to get something done. Although I'm interested in what you were referring to jester.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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Rudd leaked like a sieve in weeks two and three of the campaign; it dominated the media discussion and wiped 6% off Labor's lead. He absolutely did his best to destroy Labor's campaign and nearly succeeded. Spoke volumes about his character and the reasons why he's in politics. I'm not naive enough to think most politicians don't do it for the power, the ego, but most at least have some measure of their principles. Rudd was knifed because he was shit and then, rather than reflecting on this, tried to bring the whole edifice of his own political party down rather than have it shown that the decision to get rid of him was correct.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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From memory, wasn't one of those tiny island nations which basicly live off Australian welfare aid money going to get the buildings the asylum seekers where staying to house thier own popuation after 'x' years before the deal fell throught? In addition to pumping more money into them?
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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Yep, Nauru. Its only real thing of any use was guano, given that it is largely an island made of guano, and Australia mined it all years ago, then felt kind of bad stealing the lively hood of an entire nation, so now pretty much support the entire place. The detention centre is already there, it was just closed when the Pacific solution was ended, the Coalition plan is to reopen it, which means labor never will. So I suppose they can do whatever they want with them now. What you would want with an abandoned detention centre I don't know though.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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And so it begins. Gillard has it before Parliament and it looks like Abbot is going to be true to form and even though his party is supportive of racist bullshit like this, is going to oppose it because ... I dunno, he's an ambitious scumbag who hates to see women in power more than brown people in the street.


Lets go with that bit of hyperbole.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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And now it appears the opposition has blocked off shore processing, when they wanted it in the first place (just in a different country to the Government). So in effect it might be that the opposition tried to bargain for too much and now won't get off shore processing.

Personally I prefer them to be processed here because I figure it would be much cheaper than shipping them to a third country, plus the "stop the boats" rhetoric struck me as appealing to the xenophobic elements in STRAYA society.

On another note, one might be able to make a case of this is another example Abbott opposing for the sake of opposing something (remember the "lets just tax carbon instead of an emissions trading scheme" spill, which gets shafted when the government actually suggests a carbon tax).
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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It is an example of Labor being incompetent at politics, mostly. They have been unable from day one, again, largely through incompetence, to leverage his inconsistencies against him, and failed to learn that he is going to oppose them for the sake of it, because it does more damage to them than it does him. They crafted a policy that they knew the Greens and Independents would not support, so they had to go begging to the Coalition for votes, and Abbot strung them along long enough to give him enough rope, then strung them up. But they couldn't see it coming, even though every other person in the country could, and every paper has been screaming for the last week that Abbot would oppose it.

It's a shit policy, and I'm glad it failed, but every move like this sends votes to the coalition because voters doubt their competence, or the greens, because labor apparently hates its left wing voter base, and will leave us with a gutted labor, greens stronger but not enough to challenge the coalition.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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thejester wrote:Rudd leaked like a sieve in weeks two and three of the campaign; it dominated the media discussion and wiped 6% off Labor's lead. He absolutely did his best to destroy Labor's campaign and nearly succeeded. Spoke volumes about his character and the reasons why he's in politics. I'm not naive enough to think most politicians don't do it for the power, the ego, but most at least have some measure of their principles. Rudd was knifed because he was shit and then, rather than reflecting on this, tried to bring the whole edifice of his own political party down rather than have it shown that the decision to get rid of him was correct.
The best part of all that was where recent talk of him resuming party leadership had certain Labor MPs not-very-privately fearful of what he'd do if he did get back into the big chair.
mr friendly guy wrote:And now it appears the opposition has blocked off shore processing, when they wanted it in the first place (just in a different country to the Government). So in effect it might be that the opposition tried to bargain for too much and now won't get off shore processing.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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Stark wrote:Maybe it was Howard's fault
I don't want to blame everything on the Tampa, but it sure seems like John Howard managed to set the tone for all asylum seeker related politics in one fell swoop.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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So in the climate change/carbon tax/EVIL LIEBERAL GREENIE COMMIE debate today there was someone from up in that part of Australia that is wedged in Satan's sweaty arsecrack demanding that there be an amendment to give people in his area a subsidy to run airconditioners to offset the back-breaking, bankrupting force of GILLARDS NEW TAX.

Hey fuck-knuckles. Maybe if arseholes spent more than the bare minimum on building houses and actually built buildings appropriate to the climate rather than just brick veneer cheap-as-chips cookie cutter designs then you wouldn't need to run an A/C unit every day of the year to survive up there.

But hey, I guess that's un-Australian of me to suggest it.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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thejester wrote:* I would love to see some actual figures on this - comparisons of immigration policy, number of boats arriving, and regional events (pretty sure upsurge in violence in Afghanistan and that whole Sri Lankan civil war might have had something to do with the increase in the number of arrivals).
Here's a bunch.

For the TL;DR people, here's the conclusion: "While Pull Factors most likely have some relatively small effect on boat numbers, they are simply swamped – overwhelmingly swamped – by Push Factors." In other words, what we do here does effectively fuck all to deter asylum seekers arriving by boat.
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Re: Labor caucus backs offshore processing (STRAYA)

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Can we keep quiet on that last bit though because I don't know if the tree can handle any more shaking by charities aiming to end poverty/war/drought in the third world.
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