US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by MKSheppard »

This has been slowly developing over the last few weeks. I'm condensing the articles:

20 September 2011:

Link
The Obama administration has sharply warned Pakistan that it must cut ties with a leading Taliban group based in the tribal region along the Afghan border and help eliminate its leaders, according to officials from both countries.

In what amounts to an ultimatum, administration officials have indicated that the United States will act unilaterally if Pakistan does not comply.

The message, delivered in high-level meetings and public statements over the past several days, reflects the belief of a growing number of senior administration officials that a years-long strategy of using persuasion and military assistance to influence Pakistani behavior has been ineffective.
22 September 2011:

Mike Mullen Drops his Bombshell
The Obama administration for the first time Thursday openly asserted that Pakistan was indirectly responsible for specific attacks against U.S. troops and installations in Afghanistan, calling a leading Afghan insurgent group “a veritable arm” of the Pakistani intelligence service.

Last week’s attack on the U.S. Embassy in Kabul and a Sept. 10 truck bombing that killed five Afghans and wounded 77 NATO troops were “planned and conducted” by the Pakistan-based Haqqani network “with ISI support,” said Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The ISI is the Pakistani military’s Inter-Services Intelligence agency.

“The government of Pakistan and most especially the Pakistani army and ISI” have chosen “to use violent extremism as an instrument of policy” to maintain leverage over Afghanistan’s future, Mullen testified during a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta also testified.

...

The administration has said that “credible intelligence” shows that the Sept. 13 embassy attack, the truck bombing in nearby Wardak province and a June 28 attack on the Intercontinental Hotel in Kabul were conducted by the group led by Sirajuddin Haqqani, based in the Pakistani tribal region of North Waziristan. U.S. military officials have said that the group, part of a number of Taliban affiliates with havens in Pakistan, poses the greatest threat to American troops in Afghanistan.

In meetings over the past week with Pakistan’s military and intelligence chiefs, and with the country’s foreign minister, President Obama’s top national security officials have warned that U.S. tolerance has reached the breaking point.
Link 2
Mullen continued: "For example, we believe the Haqqani Network--which has long enjoyed the support and protection of the Pakistani government and is, in many ways, a strategic arm of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence Agency--is responsible for the September 13th attacks against the U.S. Embassy in Kabul."

"There is ample evidence confirming that the Haqqanis were behind the June 28th attack against the Inter-Continental Hotel in Kabul and the September 10th truck bomb attack that killed five Afghans and injured another 96 individuals, 77 of whom were US soldiers," Mullen continued.

During his oral testimony, Mullen reportedly reiterated his concerns about the ISI's role in sponsoring Haqqani Network attacks.

"With ISI support, Haqqani operatives planned and conducted (a Sept. 10) truck bomb attack, as well as the assault on our embassy," Mullen said, according to Reuters. "We also have credible intelligence that they were behind the June 28 attack against the Inter-Continental Hotel in Kabul and a host of other smaller but effective operations."

The Sept. 13 attack on the US Embassy in Kabul was part of a lengthy siege on Western targets, including the NATO headquarters. The Taliban claimed responsibility for the attacks, which used both suicide bombers and rocket-propelled grenades. [See LWJ report, Taliban launch complex attack on US embassy in Kabul.]

Afghan officials previously released audio of intercepted conversations between the terrorists responsible for the June 28 attack on the Inter-Continental Hotel and their Haqqani handlers in Pakistan. In an intercepted phone call, Badruddin Haqqani, a top leader of the terror network, is heard directing one of the fighters and laughing during the attack that killed 11 civilians and two Afghan policemen, as well as nine members of the attack team. [See LWJ report, Haqqani Network directed Kabul assault by phone from Pakistan.]

The ISI's sponsorship of terrorist attacks inside Afghanistan and elsewhere has long been known to US intelligence officials.

For instance, according to a leaked State Department cable dated Dec. 5, 2008, a senior US intelligence official briefed NATO representatives on the ISI's dirty work. The ISI "provides intelligence and financial support to insurgent groups - especially the Jalaluddin Haqqani network out of Miram Shah, North Waziristan - to conduct attacks in Afghanistan against Afghan government, ISAF, and Indian targets," Dr. Peter Lavoy, who was then the National Intelligence Officer for South Asia, told his NATO counterparts.
ISI Phone Intercepts
Bruce Riedel, a former top CIA analyst with close ties to the Obama White House, which he once advised, told Reuters administration officials have told him that militants who attacked the U.S. Embassy and NATO headquarters in Kabul on September 13 phoned individuals connected with the ISI before and during the attack.

Following the attacks, Riedel said, U.S. security forces collected cell phones the attackers had used. These are expected to provide further evidence linking militants to ISI.
27 September 2011:

NYT Breaks news on 2007 attack on US Troops
The attack in 2007 came after some of the worst skirmishes along the ill-marked border. By 2007 Taliban insurgents, who used Pakistan as a haven with the support of Pakistan’s military and intelligence establishment, were crossing the border, frequently in sight of Pakistani border posts, and challenging the Afghan government with increasing boldness. American and Afghan forces had just fought and killed a group of 25 militants near the border in early May.

To stem the flow of militants, the Afghan government was building more border posts, including one at Gawi, in Jaji District, one of the insurgents’ main crossing points, according to Rahmatullah Rahmat, then the governor of Paktia Province in eastern Afghanistan.

Pakistani forces objected to the new post, claiming it was on Pakistani land, and occupied it by force, killing 13 Afghans. Over the following days dozens were killed as Afghan and Pakistani forces traded mortar rounds and moved troops and artillery up to the border. Afghanistan’s president, Hamid Karzai, began to talk of defending the border at all costs, said Gen. Dan K. McNeill, the senior American general in Afghanistan at the time.

The border meeting was called, and a small group of Americans and Afghans — 12 men in total — flew by helicopters to Teri Mangal, just inside Pakistan, to try to resolve the dispute. They included Mr. Rahmat. The Afghans remember the meeting as difficult but ending in agreement. The Pakistanis described it as cordial, said Mahmood Shah, a retired brigadier and a military analyst who has spoken to some of those present at the meeting.

The Americans say the experience was like refereeing children, but after five hours of back and forth the Pakistanis agreed to withdraw from the post, and the Afghans also agreed to abandon it.

Then, just as the American and Afghan officials were climbing into vehicles provided to take them the short distance to a helicopter landing zone, a Pakistani soldier opened fire with an automatic rifle, pumping multiple rounds from just 5 or 10 yards away into an American officer, Maj. Larry J. Bauguess Jr., killing him almost instantly. An operations officer with the 82nd Airborne Division from North Carolina, Major Bauguess, 36, was married and the father of two girls, ages 4 and 6.

An American soldier immediately shot and killed the attacker, but at the same instant several other Pakistanis opened fire from inside the classrooms, riddling the group and the cars with gunfire, according to the two senior Afghan commanders who were there. Both escaped injury by throwing themselves out of their car onto the ground.

“I saw the American falling and the Americans taking positions and firing,” said Brig. Gen. Muhammad Akram Same, the Afghan Army commander in eastern Afghanistan at the time. “We were not fired on from one side, but from two, probably three sides.”

Col. Sher Ahmed Kuchai, the Afghan border guard commander, was showered with glass as the car windows shattered. “It did not last more than 20 seconds, but this was a moment of life and death,” Colonel Kuchai said.

As he looked around, he said, he saw at least two Pakistanis firing from the open windows of the classrooms and another running across the veranda toward a machine gun mounted on a vehicle before he was brought down by American fire. He also saw a Pakistani shot as he fired from the back seat of a car, he said. The rapid American reaction saved their lives, the two Afghan commanders said.

The senior American and Afghan commanders had been driven out of the compound and well past the helicopter landing zone when a Pakistani post opened fire on them, recalled Mr. Rahmat, the former governor. The Pakistani colonel in the front seat ignored their protests to stop until the American commander drew his pistol and demanded that the car halt. The group had to abandon the cars and run back across fields to reach the helicopters, Mr. Rahmat said.

His account was confirmed by the former United Nations official who talked to the unit’s members on their return that evening.
28 September 2011:

OBL Bodyguard Freed by Pakistan
Amin al-Haq, who escaped from Afghanistan with the al-Qaeda leader in 2001 and went on to become a key financial aide, was detained in Lahore three years ago by Pakistan's intelligence agency.

A senior security source in the north-western Pakistani town of Peshawar, where he had been held, said the Inter-Services Intelligence agency had passed al-Haq on to the police before he was released earlier this month.

"Amin al-Haq had been arrested mistakenly, therefore, the police failed to prove any charge of his association with Osama bin Laden and the court set him free," he told The Daily Telegraph.
So...

I believe that Abbottabad II/III are now all but a certainity, as is the expansion of the drone war from Wazaristan into Pakistan proper.

Remember that during the 2008 campaign, Obama said:
I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear: There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf will not act, we will.
And then he went and did it and had OBL's head ASPLODED in a Pakistani garrison city that's only a few hours from Islamabad...
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Pelranius
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3539
Joined: 2006-10-24 11:35am
Location: Around and about the Beltway

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by Pelranius »

Reportedly the Chinese aren't too happy with Pakistan, or they want to ease out the current leadership and replace them with someone more pliable.
Turns out that a five way cross over between It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the Ali G Show, Fargo, Idiocracy and Veep is a lot less funny when you're actually living in it.
User avatar
lazerus
The Fuzzy Doom
Posts: 3068
Joined: 2003-08-23 12:49am

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by lazerus »

This was inevitable when it started to become clear just how far in bed Pakistan was with insurgent groups. Their double-dealing has left them between a rock and a hard place. They can betray their insurgent allies and lose influence...or they can be neutered by the US, and the internal problems the government has maintaining order in certain parts of the country will only get worse. Either way, they're about to be hoist by their own metaphorical petard, as they get their own problem with insurgents, one way or another.
3D Printed Custom Miniatures! Check it out: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pro ... miniatures
User avatar
Setzer
Requiescat in Pace
Posts: 3138
Joined: 2002-08-30 11:45am

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by Setzer »

Why don't we stop dealing with Pakistan and start giving military aid to India instead?
Image
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by phongn »

Setzer wrote:Why don't we stop dealing with Pakistan and start giving military aid to India instead?
Afghanistan.
Kanastrous
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6464
Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
Location: SoCal

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by Kanastrous »

Also possibly because there's the suspicion that half-assed part-time Pakistani cooperation (while simultaneously screwing with us) is better than full-on 100% not-even-the-appearance-of-cooperation antagonism, while -openly- screwing with us.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

lazerus wrote:This was inevitable when it started to become clear just how far in bed Pakistan was with insurgent groups. Their double-dealing has left them between a rock and a hard place. They can betray their insurgent allies and lose influence...or they can be neutered by the US, and the internal problems the government has maintaining order in certain parts of the country will only get worse. Either way, they're about to be hoist by their own metaphorical petard, as they get their own problem with insurgents, one way or another.
No, the problem is that Pakistan's military etc. cannot recognise that making friends with its neighbours is better than screwing around with them. THey are deliberately antagonistic and harbor serious delusions of grandeur with no basis whatsoever.

Essentially, the US government made a deal with a bunch of delusional corrupt twats. You reap what you sow.
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
Kanastrous
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6464
Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
Location: SoCal

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by Kanastrous »

They are a nation founded upon religious identity and antagonism. What else could one expect of them?
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
User avatar
TithonusSyndrome
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2569
Joined: 2006-10-10 08:15pm
Location: The Money Store

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

Peh, well, if half of the prognostications about Pakistan being bound for inevitable civil war when the factionalized government is finally pulled apart by the strains on the fibre of Pakistani society (global warming, loss of mining revenue etc) and the need for intervention is raised on the basis of missing nuclear weapons, maybe this is just par for the course anyways. What appears to be belligerence or incompetence to a lot of observers may just be impotence due to the right hand acting contrary to the left hand even if it is completely sincere about US cooperation, and I don't know if the State Department or CIA or whoever gives credit for good intentions. I think every reasonable person rules out anything more firm in reply to US strikes than some tough demagoguery from Pakistan, but if a perceived weakness towards violations of Pakistani sovereignty flares tensions within the government factions and precipitates that civil war, then the US will have an unpoliced border far beyond anything right now on their hands.
Image
User avatar
UnderAGreySky
Jedi Knight
Posts: 641
Joined: 2010-01-07 06:39pm
Location: the land of tea and crumpets

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by UnderAGreySky »

Setzer wrote:Why don't we stop dealing with Pakistan and start giving military aid to India instead?
The best rationale on this I've heard is the line "If you think they're this bad as our friends, imagine what they would do if they were our enemies?"

That said, the billions of dollars given to buy F-16s kinda annoys me. Coming from India, I have an even more dim view of the Pakistani establishment on all fronts.
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies,
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I
User avatar
BrooklynRedLeg
Youngling
Posts: 146
Joined: 2011-09-18 06:51pm
Location: Central Florida

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by BrooklynRedLeg »

Setzer wrote:Why don't we stop dealing with Pakistan and start giving military aid to India instead?
We need to stop giving military aid, period.
"Democracy, too, is a religion. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses." - H.L. Mencken
“An atheist, who is a statist, is just another theist.” – Stefan Molyneux
"If men are good, you don't need government; if men are evil or ambivalent, you don't dare have one." - Robert LeFevre
Chirios
Jedi Knight
Posts: 502
Joined: 2010-07-09 12:27am

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by Chirios »

BrooklynRedLeg wrote:
Setzer wrote:Why don't we stop dealing with Pakistan and start giving military aid to India instead?
We need to stop giving military aid, period.
Not American, but I'd like to point out that wouldn't be a good thing. South Korea for example benefits greatly from US Military aid.
User avatar
BrooklynRedLeg
Youngling
Posts: 146
Joined: 2011-09-18 06:51pm
Location: Central Florida

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by BrooklynRedLeg »

Chirios wrote:Not American, but I'd like to point out that wouldn't be a good thing. South Korea for example benefits greatly from US Military aid.
I beg to differ. South Korea is perfectly capable of defending itself. We're also making enemies by supplying one side (or in some cases both sides) in potential wars.
"Democracy, too, is a religion. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses." - H.L. Mencken
“An atheist, who is a statist, is just another theist.” – Stefan Molyneux
"If men are good, you don't need government; if men are evil or ambivalent, you don't dare have one." - Robert LeFevre
Pelranius
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3539
Joined: 2006-10-24 11:35am
Location: Around and about the Beltway

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by Pelranius »

Chirios wrote:
BrooklynRedLeg wrote:
Setzer wrote:Why don't we stop dealing with Pakistan and start giving military aid to India instead?
We need to stop giving military aid, period.
Not American, but I'd like to point out that wouldn't be a good thing. South Korea for example benefits greatly from US Military aid.
South Korea doesn't receive military aid. At least not the sort that Egypt and Israel get.
Turns out that a five way cross over between It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the Ali G Show, Fargo, Idiocracy and Veep is a lot less funny when you're actually living in it.
Samuel
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4750
Joined: 2008-10-23 11:36am

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by Samuel »

I think he was refering to the troops stationed in South Korea, not that we paid for the South Korean military.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by Thanas »

Well, to be honest, American military aid causes people to buy American weapons. So there is one upside.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
FedRebel
Jedi Master
Posts: 1071
Joined: 2004-10-12 12:38am

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by FedRebel »

UnderAGreySky wrote:
Setzer wrote:Why don't we stop dealing with Pakistan and start giving military aid to India instead?
The best rationale on this I've heard is the line "If you think they're this bad as our friends, imagine what they would do if they were our enemies?"
We could neuter their nuclear arsenal with precision strikes, Pakistan should be more "compliant" with American interests if they no longer possess a nuclear capability (it's certainly a card they are playing in our present relationship)

*Takes a look at the USAF's handling of strategic air-power capability*

...never-mind, we just don't have the assets or the discipline to pull it off before the Pakistani's could be in a position to either retaliate or have their deterrent go to ground (and thusly end up in Taliban hands)
Pelranius
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3539
Joined: 2006-10-24 11:35am
Location: Around and about the Beltway

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by Pelranius »

FedRebel wrote:
UnderAGreySky wrote:
Setzer wrote:Why don't we stop dealing with Pakistan and start giving military aid to India instead?
The best rationale on this I've heard is the line "If you think they're this bad as our friends, imagine what they would do if they were our enemies?"
We could neuter their nuclear arsenal with precision strikes, Pakistan should be more "compliant" with American interests if they no longer possess a nuclear capability (it's certainly a card they are playing in our present relationship)

*Takes a look at the USAF's handling of strategic air-power capability*

...never-mind, we just don't have the assets or the discipline to pull it off before the Pakistani's could be in a position to either retaliate or have their deterrent go to ground (and thusly end up in Taliban hands)
Assuming that we can find it in the first place.
Turns out that a five way cross over between It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the Ali G Show, Fargo, Idiocracy and Veep is a lot less funny when you're actually living in it.
User avatar
Darksider
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5271
Joined: 2002-12-13 02:56pm
Location: America's decaying industrial armpit.

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by Darksider »

Thanas wrote:Well, to be honest, American military aid causes people to buy American weapons. So there is one upside.
Why is people buying American weapons an upside?

I thought that proliferation of advanced weapons technology = bad.
And this is why you don't watch anything produced by Ronald D. Moore after he had his brain surgically removed and replaced with a bag of elephant semen.-Gramzamber, on why Caprica sucks
User avatar
UnderAGreySky
Jedi Knight
Posts: 641
Joined: 2010-01-07 06:39pm
Location: the land of tea and crumpets

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by UnderAGreySky »

FedRebel wrote:We could neuter their nuclear arsenal with precision strikes, Pakistan should be more "compliant" with American interests if they no longer possess a nuclear capability (it's certainly a card they are playing in our present relationship)

*Takes a look at the USAF's handling of strategic air-power capability*

...never-mind, we just don't have the assets or the discipline to pull it off before the Pakistani's could be in a position to either retaliate or have their deterrent go to ground (and thusly end up in Taliban hands)
There's been a theory floating around the internet (and occasionally making it into mainstream Pakistani media) that their nukes are already neutered - the US effectively controls them and the means to launch them. It's not a rumour that can be relied on, but if true it would make sense to me.
Darksider wrote:Why is people buying American weapons an upside?

I thought that proliferation of advanced weapons technology = bad.
More jobs for Americans, I suppose. I suspected Thanas was being slightly sarcastic :)

PS: India has bought C-130Js for its SF units, the first P-8 for the Indian Navy (P-8I Neptune) has just flown and there is an order for a dozen C-17s pending which would mean India might be contributing to US military-related jobs more than the UK and Pakistan combined!
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies,
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I
Chirios
Jedi Knight
Posts: 502
Joined: 2010-07-09 12:27am

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by Chirios »

This is a quote from an interview with a retired Pakistani general on the Economist.
CLUTCHING a glass of distinctly un-Islamic whisky, a retired senior Pakistani official explains at a drinks party in Islamabad, the capital, that his country has no choice but to support the jihadist opposition in Afghanistan. The Indians are throwing money at their own favourites in Afghanistan, he says, and the Russians and Iranians are doing the same. So Pakistan must play the game too. “Except we have no money. All we have are the crazies. So the crazies it is.”
http://www.economist.com/node/21531042
User avatar
UnderAGreySky
Jedi Knight
Posts: 641
Joined: 2010-01-07 06:39pm
Location: the land of tea and crumpets

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by UnderAGreySky »

Pakistan has always had what I call the "India complex". Everything they do has to be viewed through India-tinted spectacles. When the lights go out at a stadium mid-match and your first thought is not "when will the lights come back" but "what will the Indians think of us?" you seriously need to re-evaluate your priorities. (This happened at a cricket game in Pakistan where a family member was at)

India wasn't much different, mind you. It's only when we decided as a country to compete with those who were better than us we started to move out of our rut.
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies,
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I
User avatar
hongi
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1952
Joined: 2006-10-15 02:14am
Location: Sydney

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by hongi »

“Except we have no money. All we have are the crazies. So the crazies it is.”
Sums it all up really.
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by MKSheppard »

It's because Pakistan views Afghanistan as a strategic reserve. They continue to delude themselves that if they get a friendly regime (read Islamic) in Kabul, then they can use Afghanistan as a place to retreat their forces to in case of another Indo-Pakistan war.

This is pretty much insane, but it's what passes for strategic level thought in Pakistan's military.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Re: US/Pakistani Relations continue to sour...

Post by MKSheppard »

And Afghanistan is getting into the game.

Two days ago, Karzai essentially gave up on peace talks with the Taliban, and at the same time Afghanistan outright came out and accused the ISI of killing their negotiator:

Link
KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who for years pushed for reconciliation with the Taliban, now says attempts to negotiate with the insurgent movement are futile and efforts at dialogue should focus instead on neighboring Pakistan.

Karzai explained in a videotaped speech released by his office Saturday that he changed his views about trying to talk to the Taliban after a suicide bomber, claiming to be a peace emissary sent by the insurgents, killed former Afghan President Burhanuddin Rabbani at his home on Sept. 20. Rabbani was leading Karzai's effort to broker peace with the Taliban.

"Their messengers are coming and killing. ... So with whom should we make peace?" Karzai said Friday to a gathering of the nation's top religious leaders that was videotaped.

"I cannot find Mullah Mohammad Omar," Karzai said, referring to the Taliban's one-eyed leader. "Where is he? I cannot find the Taliban council. Where is it?

"I don't have any other answer except to say that the other side for this negotiation is Pakistan," Karzai said.

Most of the Taliban leadership is thought to be living in Pakistan, and its governing council — known as the Quetta Shura — is based in the southern Pakistani city of the same name. It has long been believed that the Pakistani government has sheltered and influenced the group.

Afghanistan said Saturday it had evidence that Rabbani's assassination was planned by Taliban figures living in Quetta.

Afghan Interior Minister Besmillah Mohammadi went even further, telling Afghan lawmakers Saturday that Pakistan's intelligence service, known as the ISI, was involved in Rabbani's killing — an allegation that Pakistan has denied. "Without any doubt, ISI, is involved in this," Mohammadi said.
Today they released a statement saying that the suicide bomber who killed Rabbani was from Pakistan:

Link
KABUL: Afghanistan said on Sunday that the suicide bomber who assassinated Afghan peace negotiator Burhanuddin Rabbani was a Pakistani national.

Tensions between the neighbours have been rising amid allegations from Afghan officials that Pakistan and its powerful ISI intelligence agency masterminded Rabbani’s assassination and are seeking to destabilise Afghanistan.

An investigative delegation established by President Hamid Karzai said evidence and a confession provided by a man involved in Rabbani’s killing on Sept. 20 had revealed that the bomber was from Chaman and the assassination had been plotted in Quetta, both on the Pakistani side of the border.

“It proves that the assassination of Professor Rabbani was hatched in Quetta and the man who carried out the suicide bombing is a Pakistani national,” the delegation, led by Defence Minister Abdul Rahim Wardak, said in a statement issued by the presidential palace.

“The documents and evidence in hand, details of other accomplices and their phone numbers have been handed over to Pakistan to make arrests,” it said.

Rabbani’s killing derailed efforts to forge dialogue with the Taliban to end the 10-year war, and raised fears of a dangerous widening of Afghanistan’s ethnic rifts.

The High Peace Council, which Rabbani headed, reiterated earlier comments by Karzai that negotiations should continue, but with Pakistan, rather than the Taliban.

“For the groups that are tired of conflict and want to end the killings and destruction inside the country, peace efforts must continue,” the council said in a separate statement issued late on Sunday.

“But because of those who hide in Pakistan with no known address, who send killers (to Afghanistan), we must negotiate with Pakistan instead.”
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Post Reply