Vietnam old guys are misogynist

[madd0ct0r]

hardly news, but definitely political. and full of fucking irony:

I have my source's permission to post.

Removed upon request of the OP ~D

posted without comment, mostly because I'm speechless with the sheer monumental idiocy of it all.

[Baffalo]

I'm not really seeing it. Could you please point out what, exactly, is wrong here? I might be seeing it and not registering. Thank you.

[Kuja]

I'm not picking up on it either.

[madd0ct0r]

It's meant to be a celebration of Vietnamese female entrepenuers. so far so progressive.

but look at the following sentences:

Vietnam women entrepreneurs, who are not only successful in business but also graceful in art performance.

19:45 -20:00 Songs about Mother

20:20 - 20:35 Business style fashion show

20:35 - 20:45 Talk show with Businesswomen who won the Golden Rose Trophy, Top 100 Business Style 2011; Talk with Ms. Nguyen Thi Thu Huong, The second best of 2011 Mrs World Competition

the overall theme for the evening is: You are successful at business, but (as a woman) you should be graceful, be able to dance, be beautiful and demure, care about fashion and listen to a runner up in the Mrs World Competition.

Try going through and switching all of the gender words for male ones and the absurdity stands out.

[Zaune]

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[Shroom Man 777]

I think it would be great if businessmen also did macho man shows and flexed their muscles and strutted their stuff.

[Metatwaddle]

I'm kind of shocked that people didn't pick up on the sexism. It's pretty blatant. I don't know if I'd call it misogyny, but it's definitely fucking sexist to say the performance is a celebration of the "beauty and refined talent" of women entrepreneurs.

Have Vietnamese women's groups responded to this? What is their reaction?

[Kuja]

I'm kind of shocked that people didn't pick up on the sexism. It's pretty blatant. I don't know if I'd call it misogyny, but it's definitely fucking sexist to say the performance is a celebration of the "beauty and refined talent" of women entrepreneurs.

I initially missed that fact that there were two articles and read only the second one...somehow (scrolling the wrong window, probably), and with a title like "Night of Vietnamese Flowers" I guess I was under the impression that the event in question was some kind of artsy-fartsy-cultural-expo thing. Then I noticed the first article but I only skimmed it because as soon as I saw the "Vietnam Chamber of Commerce and Industry (VCCI) would like to send you its complements" line I figured it was just an invitation to said artsy-fartsy-cultural-expo thing.

But, uh, yeah. Mea culpa. If it's really supposed to be a celebration of Vietnamese female entreprenuers and most of the timetable is the stuff madd0ctor pointed out...uh, yeah, that's pretty blatent.

[White Haven]

Oh, I picked up on the blatant sexism quickly enough, but methinks misogyny doesn't mean what you think it means.

[madd0ct0r]

hmmm.

In feminist theory, misogyny is a negative attitude towards women as a group, and so need not fully determine a misogynist's attitude towards each individual woman. The fact that someone holds misogynist views may not prevent him or her from having positive relationships with some women.

but generally speaking yes - I'm prepared to accept this comes from unthinking attitudes and not active hatred.

can we get the thread title changed to sexist?

[Xisiqomelir]

Old but funny:

Garden Grove Ends Nude Vietnamese Coffee Houses
This week, Garden Grove City Council voted unanimously to ban smoking, arcade games, and nudity in Vietnamese coffeehouses, or "cafe om." Good riddance or an unnecessary restriction on a harmless vice?
By James Bao on May 13, 2011 • Topics: Current Affairs

This week, Garden Grove City Council voted unanimously to ban smoking, arcade games, and nudity in coffeehouses. In a city of 166,332, of which 40-45% are Vietnamese, the ordinance is aimed primarily at Vietnamese coffeehouses.

For those not familiar with Vietnamese coffeehouses, or “cafe om,” they are as close as they come to strip clubs in the conservative Vietnamese culture. The venues are usually dark and seedy. Waitresses deliver coffee to primarily male clienteles in skimpy outfits or lingerie. As these coffeehouses push to compete, the waitresses’ outfits have gotten smaller and racier, close to full nudity in some instances.

Vietnamese coffeehouses have also become a hotbed for gang activity and gambling. Arcade machines are rigged to be gambling machines and the coffeehouses have become meeting spots for loan sharks and gangsters. According to the OC Register, “2010 alone there were three robberies, four incidents of assault with a deadly weapon, seven drug-related incidents, 28 gambling arrests and 39 citations for smoking violations in these coffeehouses.” Many are ran and funded by gang members or their affiliates.

This event brings into light the darker side of Vietnamese American culture, one of gangs, drugs, and sex trafficking. Just last year, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) busted a $10 million marijuana cultivation ring in Elk Grove, Sacramento, Milpitas, and San Jose. Suspects arrested we all Vietnamese. Last month, Milpitas police arrested 2 Vietnamese men growing close to $1.1 million worth of weed.

Though the new ordinance will make it harder for these activities to take place, I have no doubt nudity, drug, and gambling will pop up somewhere else (Vietnamese people are quite resourceful, even the bad ones, unfortunately). We need to solve the underlying problems: a highly profitable drug industry and immigrant parents that do not have enough time for their kids from working night or double shifts.

Video

[Darth Fanboy]

Those places really were shitholes though, and it certainly wasn't because of the girls. Although that was a pretty strong excuse for the city to step in and do something about it.

[Thanas]

Going to play devils advocate here - how much of that is due to bad translations? For example, one guy who vent to Vietnam was introduced as the "talented youth" which he thought at first was pretty offensive but was just how they addressed younger persons.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'm really not seeing it. Even if the translations can be trusted, why is mixing cultural and business considerations so bad? I mean, looking at it, it's not like the entire schedule is cooking and sewing classes, there appear to me to be actual business related events, and in the interim breaks they are throwing in some random entertainment. Who cares?

[Spoonist]

So american nerds are also sexist? Go figures...

[Bakustra]

I'm really not seeing it. Even if the translations can be trusted, why is mixing cultural and business considerations so bad? I mean, looking at it, it's not like the entire schedule is cooking and sewing classes, there appear to me to be actual business related events, and in the interim breaks they are throwing in some random entertainment. Who cares?

A fashion show, songs about motherhood, and an art show celebrating women are hardly random entertainment in the context of celebrating women's achievements in Vietnam's industry and businesses. They meld together traditional sexuality and beauty with the practical aspects of running businesses to suggest that to be a woman you have to be traditionally feminine no matter the career path you are on, which restricts the freedom of Vietnamese women. Thus, sexism, which is funny but unsurprising in the context of celebrating women's achievements.

[Solauren]

I think it would be great if businessmen also did macho man shows and flexed their muscles and strutted their stuff.

Those are called board meetings.

[madd0ct0r]

Going to play devils advocate here - how much of that is due to bad translations? For example, one guy who vent to Vietnam was introduced as the "talented youth" which he thought at first was pretty offensive but was just how they addressed younger persons.

that's an interesting question.
I ran it past the wife, who even on skimreading could see the set phrases and typical thought patterns clunking into place. In the Vietnamese, that letter is banal, normal and completely typical, but only because you have to deal with stuff like that everyday.
(She also said we could walk into any government office and pick up the first piece of paper and it'd be equally stupid for one reason or another. Shep's pentagonese has nothing on the communists )

15years ago they wouldn't have been having this meeting
maybe in another 10 years things like a fashion show, or giving one of the key note speeches to a Miss World runner up might have died out.

on a related translation note, the subtitles for last nights film insisted on translating 'Indian' (english) into 'Redskin' (vietnamese equiv).

GAH: and I'm sorry to do this guys, but my source has texted me this morning asking me to take it off again. He's worried about it spreading back into the Vietnamese web community. I did ask explicitly yesterday, guess he didn't think it'd get any attention.

[Baffalo]

Ok I see it now. Sorry I missed it before.

[ChaserGrey]

I think it would be great if businessmen also did macho man shows and flexed their muscles and strutted their stuff.

Those are called board meetings.

Yes, but do those usually have swimsuit competitions as part of the agenda? (And if not, why not?)

[Col. Crackpot]

I think it would be great if businessmen also did macho man shows and flexed their muscles and strutted their stuff.

Those are called board meetings.

Yes, but do those usually have swimsuit competitions as part of the agenda? (And if not, why not?)

speaking as someone who has been to various conferences and award trips featuring high level finance executives, i implore you to take my word on the fact that you do not want to see the average 50+ executive in a swimsuit... Regardless of gender.

[PeZook]

speaking as someone who has been to various conferences and award trips featuring high level finance executives, i implore you to take my word on the fact that you do not want to see the average 50+ executive in a swimsuit... Regardless of gender.

They should have axe duels, then.

[ChaserGrey]

speaking as someone who has been to various conferences and award trips featuring high level finance executives, i implore you to take my word on the fact that you do not want to see the average 50+ executive in a swimsuit... Regardless of gender.

All right, damn you, we'll substitute the evening wear event, but that is my last concession!

[Block]

speaking as someone who has been to various conferences and award trips featuring high level finance executives, i implore you to take my word on the fact that you do not want to see the average 50+ executive in a swimsuit... Regardless of gender.

They should have axe duels, then.

Guitar contests would be better.

[Dalton]

Back on topic folks.

What's this about removing the article?