Canadian Tories propose 10 years for masks...

[Terralthra]

...at "riots" or other unlawful activity, but the MPs' statements make it clear they're trying to allow police to arrest peaceful protesters if they're masked.

MPs studying a bill that would make it illegal for rioters to cover their faces have doubled the proposed penalty to 10 years.

Conservative MPs on the House justice committee changed the proposed law Thursday, sending the legislation back to the House of Commons with a maximum penalty of 10 years in jail rather than five.

The committee was studying Bill C-309, a proposed law that would make it a crime for people rioting or at an unlawful protest to conceal their identities.

Robert Goguen, parliamentary secretary to the justice minister, put forward the change.

The bill should be back in the House of Commons next week for a final vote before going to the Senate.

Blake Richards, the Conservative backbencher who proposed the new legislation, says he was open to the change because it harmonized with a section in the Criminal Code that already criminalizes the wearing of a disguise.

"The idea is they’re trying to harmonize it with Section 351 of the Criminal Code which deals with similar types of offences, so obviously it makes a lot of sense," he said.

Giving police new tool
Section 351 already makes it illegal for anyone to wear a disguise to commit an indictable offence, which one expert told the committee made Richards's bill unnecessary.

Richards said he had heard from police that it was almost impossible to use that offence to charge rioters, because it was intended to be used in cases of armed robbery. He wrote C-309 to give police another tool to prosecute rioters, he said.

"The idea here is that this applies to individuals who are participating in an unlawful assembly or in a riot, so the separate offence of the mask is an aggravating factor, of course, to participating in that kind of event."

Participating in a riot is an indictable offence that would be covered under the existing provision. But taking part in an unlawful assembly is a less serious crime, which wouldn't be covered by the existing law. An unlawful assembly is a gathering that causes fear.

It's up to city officials to decide what constitutes a riot.

NDP MP Françoise Boivin wanted the committee to change the language in the bill so the wording matched the existing measure.

The current law is phrased as wearing a disguise "with intent to commit" an offence, but Richards's bill simply says "commits an offence."

Lawyers will 'have a field day'
Boivin, a lawyer, said defence lawyers will "have a field day with it."

"Definitely it’s going to be contested," Boivin said.

Richards said Boivin's change would have made the bill "useless."

"That’s why it’s difficult for police to apply," he said.

The problem for police isn't in finding a crime with which to charge violent or destructive rioters, she added. It's about identifying those who commit the crimes if their faces are masked. Boivin said she fears police will see the bill as a way to pre-emptively arrest masked protesters, even if they're peaceful.

"Nothing in this bill is going to change that fact," she said. "It would seem they would arrest at random … you have a mask and we'll sort it out at the police station, but that's not how it's supposed to be."

"Let’s not oversimplify. I don’t want to protect those thugs or those criminals. I just don’t want to arrest innocent people."

[Ryan Thunder]

Worth it if it puts an end to those godawful Guy Fawkes masks.

(Okay not really, but I can never take anybody wearing one seriously.)

[Eulogy]

This will just make protesters more creative. If you're in any position of authority you don't want that to happen.

[Patrick Degan]

So instead of masks, the protesters start sporting Guy Fawkes makeup.

[Simon_Jester]

I'm picturing someone who wears a mask in public because of facial scarring (not unheard of, although rare)... and sues on the grounds that this law discriminates against them.

[eion]

Don't even have to be that selective. It could just as easily by Muslim women in conservative hijab.

[Aaron MkII]

That's protected by the charter of rights.

[eion]

Well then that will be the favored costume of protestors from now on: burkas

That, or more clown makeup.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Or bandages. Or big sunglasses and fake beards. Or a fake beard and eyepatch for a nice pirate look.

I'm picturing someone who wears a mask in public because of facial scarring (not unheard of, although rare)... and sues on the grounds that this law discriminates against them.

I'm picturing someone* being arrested on Halloween or going to/from a costume party by some cop who feels like playing bully. People do wear masks occasionally for reasons that have nothing to do with politics.

[Simon_Jester]

I think you missed my point.

The thing is, if I'm wearing masks for entertainment, it's hard to sue or argue that my rights are being violated, if we accept the state's premise that 'the right to wear a mask' isn't part of freedom of expression.

It's much easier to make this argument if you have some other important reason to wear a mask, a reason that the state would normally respect, but would not be respected if this law gets passed.

[Alyeska]

I think you missed my point.

The thing is, if I'm wearing masks for entertainment, it's hard to sue or argue that my rights are being violated, if we accept the state's premise that 'the right to wear a mask' isn't part of freedom of expression.

Entertainment is a core component of Freedom of Expression.

[Aaron MkII]

I think you missed my point.

The thing is, if I'm wearing masks for entertainment, it's hard to sue or argue that my rights are being violated, if we accept the state's premise that 'the right to wear a mask' isn't part of freedom of expression.

It's much easier to make this argument if you have some other important reason to wear a mask, a reason that the state would normally respect, but would not be respected if this law gets passed.

Considering this is specifically for riots, I don't think you have to worry if your wearing a clown mask walking around downtown Ottawa.

[Enigma]

Even in riots, I'd doubt that being arrested for wearing a mask unless you've committed a serious crime would happen. This is Canada fer cryin' out loud! Our city halls set up tables for people to complain about the cops during protests!

I'm not worried about this law. Not a bit.

[Ahriman238]

Or bandages. Or big sunglasses and fake beards. Or a fake beard and eyepatch for a nice pirate look.

I'm picturing someone who wears a mask in public because of facial scarring (not unheard of, although rare)... and sues on the grounds that this law discriminates against them.

I'm picturing someone* being arrested on Halloween or going to/from a costume party by some cop who feels like playing bully. People do wear masks occasionally for reasons that have nothing to do with politics.

In Mass. at least, there a lot of crimes committed during Halloween (particularly in Salem) specifically because it's the one night a year when a masked man wandering down a street carrying a bulging bag isn't suspicious in the least, and no one can identify the person who mugged them better then as "the guy in the devil suit."

[Phantasee]

Even in riots, I'd doubt that being arrested for wearing a mask unless you've committed a serious crime would happen. This is Canada fer cryin' out loud! Our city halls set up tables for people to complain about the cops during protests!

I'm not worried about this law. Not a bit.

I am. This is bullshit we shouldn't be tolerating. The Cons have such a heavy-handed approach to these things, and I honestly think they have worse coming down the pipe and want to be able to squelch public protest before it comes to light.

I'd walk around Ottawa in a Masked Mamba outfit all day if I could.

[Enigma]

In Ottawa, it is almost about as liberal as it could get. This law wouldn't have much effect there.

[Phantasee]

By Ottawa I mean PMSH's office. Sorry, could have been clearer.

It's great having friends working on the Hill as CPC staffers and interns. They're all PC here in Alberta but it seems a lot of their coworkers are Wildrose types. Hearing their stories about these backwards and socially regressive kids is hilarious. It's like the election didn't end! Unfortunately all my friends are going to hell for their socially progressive stances (along with the gays and darkies).

[Blayne]

I'm concerned because if the Tories want this to pass they can, a Prime Minister with a majority government with the level of party discipline HarperGov has managed to acquire here is perhaps the most powerful political position in the western world (irrespective of a state's power internationally). Where we just don't the same checks and balances as the United States does, I'm not even sure if our Court system can really strike down laws passed. On the other hand this gives Mulcair more ammunition to pound the conservatives on and hopefully gets through to more of Canada's young people.

[Aaron MkII]

I have no doubt the NDP died with Jack, they have no one with his energy.

But yes, our courts can strike down laws. Its one of their functions.

[Enigma]

I have no doubt the NDP died with Jack, they have no one with his energy.

But yes, our courts can strike down laws. Its one of their functions.

Especially if they deem it to be unconstitutional.

[Phantasee]

If the NDP don't start putting out sound economic policy they'll never get to be government, and god help us if they manage it in spite of the stupid ideas they have currently. I'm all for their social policies and some of their ideas generally but their ideas for how to run the country's economy are fucking retarded. That's the only thing the CPC have going for them, which of course brings it back to "It's the economy, stupid."

[Irbis]

Even in riots, I'd doubt that being arrested for wearing a mask unless you've committed a serious crime would happen. This is Canada fer cryin' out loud! Our city halls set up tables for people to complain about the cops during protests!

You know, this sounds like usual argument raised to decrease personal liberties (the "honest people don't have anything to fear from police forces having even more power, so what you're afraid of, evildoer?" one) in disguise. You might be right there is nothing to be worried about right now, but...

I'm not worried about this law. Not a bit.

...let me point out that it's precisely lack of worrying about seemingly innocent laws that made world much less liberal and friendly than it was 12 years ago. Remember time when you could travel from Canada to USA not only without strip search, but often without passport at all?

[Aaron MkII]

And that horseshit was the Yanks doing.

[Enigma]

Even in riots, I'd doubt that being arrested for wearing a mask unless you've committed a serious crime would happen. This is Canada fer cryin' out loud! Our city halls set up tables for people to complain about the cops during protests!

You know, this sounds like usual argument raised to decrease personal liberties (the "honest people don't have anything to fear from police forces having even more power, so what you're afraid of, evildoer?" one) in disguise. You might be right there is nothing to be worried about right now, but...

I'm from Ottawa, born and raised, even though now I live in Ohio. I've never had to worry about the police abusing their powers. When the G20 meeting was held near Ottawa a few years ago, there were some rioting (very minor compared to others) and the police was out there. On the lawn of City Hall, one of the city councillors set up a table to deal with abuses by police. Instead of supporting the restoration of order, City Hall was pretty much on the side of the protesters even though they did not actually say that. Then again, Ottawa is quite liberal so it may be different in a more conservative city.

As I said, I'm not worried. Should the NDP or Liberals win the next election, if there's a political will, this particular law will be struck down unless it is struck down earlier by the Supreme Court of Canada.

I'm not worried about this law. Not a bit.

...let me point out that it's precisely lack of worrying about seemingly innocent laws that made world much less liberal and friendly than it was 12 years ago. Remember time when you could travel from Canada to USA not only without strip search, but often without passport at all?[/quote]

As Aaron said, this was the U.S.'s doing not Canada.

[Aaron MkII]

Honestly, the pants shitting every time the CPC does something is getting old, fast. We're doing fine, just as liberal as we always have been and we're not headed down some slippery shit slope.

The only objectionable thing tbey've really done is the shifty internet records thing which is impossible anyways.

Stop letting your fear rule you.