NYPD are racist as all fuck

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Dominus Atheos
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NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Dominus Atheos »

And don't let anyone tell you otherwise
There’s been a good deal of reporting on this report the NYCLU released last week, but the report itself must be read to fully understand the gravity of the stop-and-frisk abuse in NYC.

Consider this chart, for example, showing that Mike Bloomberg has had even more success inflating stop-and-frisk numbers than he ever had inflating the stock market.

Image

Then there’s the stat that shows more young black men were stopped last year (168,126 stops of young black men) than reside in the city over all (158,406 total)–statistically, at least, every single young black man has been stopped.

Finally, though, there’s the list of reasons cops gave for having stopped someone in the first place–with “furtive movements” accounting for over half the stops, and “clothes commonly used in a crime” (does this mean hoodies?) cited in 31,555. What’s worse, cops only suspect a violent crime 10% of the time.

The cops frisked the person they stopped over half the time–purportedly because they suspected a weapon that might threaten the officer. Yet they found the weapon that justified the search less than 2% of the time–and weapons were more often found on white men who were stopped than blacks or LatinosIn December, Nicholas Peart wrote a devastating op-ed on what it has been like for him to mature under Bloomberg’s stop-and-frisk explosion, describing the four times he has been stopped and frisked.
Last May, I was outside my apartment building on my way to the store when two police officers jumped out of an unmarked car and told me to stop and put my hands up against the wall. I complied. Without my permission, they removed my cellphone from my hand, and one of the officers reached into my pockets, and removed my wallet and keys. He looked through my wallet, then handcuffed me. The officers wanted to know if I had just come out of a particular building. No, I told them, I lived next door.

One of the officers asked which of the keys they had removed from my pocket opened my apartment door. Then he entered my building and tried to get into my apartment with my key. My 18-year-old sister was inside with two of our younger siblings; later she told me she had no idea why the police were trying to get into our apartment and was terrified. She tried to call me, but because they had confiscated my phone, I couldn’t answer.

Meanwhile, a white officer put me in the back of the police car. I was still handcuffed. The officer asked if I had any marijuana, and I said no. He removed and searched my shoes and patted down my socks. I asked why they were searching me, and he told me someone in my building complained that a person they believed fit my description had been ringing their bell. After the other officer returned from inside my apartment building, they opened the door to the police car, told me to get out, removed the handcuffs and simply drove off. I was deeply shaken.

For young people in my neighborhood, getting stopped and frisked is a rite of passage. We expect the police to jump us at any moment. We know the rules: don’t run and don’t try to explain, because speaking up for yourself might get you arrested or worse. And we all feel the same way — degraded, harassed, violated and criminalized because we’re black or Latino.
He ends this passage by asking, “Have I been stopped more than the average young black person?” And the ACLU report makes it clear that his experience is absolutely statistically normal for a young black man.

Which presumably means the result he describes–the fear, the degradation, the criminalization–are fairly typical as well.
Full NYT article:
Why Is the N.Y.P.D. After Me?
By NICHOLAS K. PEART

WHEN I was 14, my mother told me not to panic if a police officer stopped me. And she cautioned me to carry ID and never run away from the police or I could be shot. In the nine years since my mother gave me this advice, I have had numerous occasions to consider her wisdom.

One evening in August of 2006, I was celebrating my 18th birthday with my cousin and a friend. We were staying at my sister’s house on 96th Street and Amsterdam Avenue in Manhattan and decided to walk to a nearby place and get some burgers. It was closed so we sat on benches in the median strip that runs down the middle of Broadway. We were talking, watching the night go by, enjoying the evening when suddenly, and out of nowhere, squad cars surrounded us. A policeman yelled from the window, “Get on the ground!”

I was stunned. And I was scared. Then I was on the ground — with a gun pointed at me. I couldn’t see what was happening but I could feel a policeman’s hand reach into my pocket and remove my wallet. Apparently he looked through and found the ID I kept there. “Happy Birthday,” he said sarcastically. The officers questioned my cousin and friend, asked what they were doing in town, and then said goodnight and left us on the sidewalk.

Less than two years later, in the spring of 2008, N.Y.P.D. officers stopped and frisked me, again. And for no apparent reason. This time I was leaving my grandmother’s home in Flatbush, Brooklyn; a squad car passed me as I walked down East 49th Street to the bus stop. The car backed up. Three officers jumped out. Not again. The officers ordered me to stand, hands against a garage door, fished my wallet out of my pocket and looked at my ID. Then they let me go.

I was stopped again in September of 2010. This time I was just walking home from the gym. It was the same routine: I was stopped, frisked, searched, ID’d and let go.

These experiences changed the way I felt about the police. After the third incident I worried when police cars drove by; I was afraid I would be stopped and searched or that something worse would happen. I dress better if I go downtown. I don’t hang out with friends outside my neighborhood in Harlem as much as I used to. Essentially, I incorporated into my daily life the sense that I might find myself up against a wall or on the ground with an officer’s gun at my head. For a black man in his 20s like me, it’s just a fact of life in New York.

Here are a few other facts: last year, the N.Y.P.D. recorded more than 600,000 stops; 84 percent of those stopped were blacks or Latinos. Police are far more likely to use force when stopping blacks or Latinos than whites. In half the stops police cite the vague “furtive movements” as the reason for the stop. Maybe black and brown people just look more furtive, whatever that means. These stops are part of a larger, more widespread problem — a racially discriminatory system of stop-and-frisk in the N.Y.P.D. The police use the excuse that they’re fighting crime to continue the practice, but no one has ever actually proved that it reduces crime or makes the city safer. Those of us who live in the neighborhoods where stop-and-frisks are a basic fact of daily life don’t feel safer as a result.

We need change. When I was young I thought cops were cool. They had a respectable and honorable job to keep people safe and fight crime. Now, I think their tactics are unfair and they abuse their authority. The police should consider the consequences of a generation of young people who want nothing to do with them — distrust, alienation and more crime.

Last May, I was outside my apartment building on my way to the store when two police officers jumped out of an unmarked car and told me to stop and put my hands up against the wall. I complied. Without my permission, they removed my cellphone from my hand, and one of the officers reached into my pockets, and removed my wallet and keys. He looked through my wallet, then handcuffed me. The officers wanted to know if I had just come out of a particular building. No, I told them, I lived next door.

One of the officers asked which of the keys they had removed from my pocket opened my apartment door. Then he entered my building and tried to get into my apartment with my key. My 18-year-old sister was inside with two of our younger siblings; later she told me she had no idea why the police were trying to get into our apartment and was terrified. She tried to call me, but because they had confiscated my phone, I couldn’t answer.

Meanwhile, a white officer put me in the back of the police car. I was still handcuffed. The officer asked if I had any marijuana, and I said no. He removed and searched my shoes and patted down my socks. I asked why they were searching me, and he told me someone in my building complained that a person they believed fit my description had been ringing their bell. After the other officer returned from inside my apartment building, they opened the door to the police car, told me to get out, removed the handcuffs and simply drove off. I was deeply shaken.

For young people in my neighborhood, getting stopped and frisked is a rite of passage. We expect the police to jump us at any moment. We know the rules: don’t run and don’t try to explain, because speaking up for yourself might get you arrested or worse. And we all feel the same way — degraded, harassed, violated and criminalized because we’re black or Latino. Have I been stopped more than the average young black person? I don’t know, but I look like a zillion other people on the street. And we’re all just trying to live our lives.

As a teenager, I was quiet and kept to myself. I’m about to graduate from the Borough of Manhattan Community College, and I have a stronger sense of myself after getting involved with the Brotherhood/Sister Sol, a neighborhood organization in Harlem. We educate young people about their rights when they’re stopped by the police and how to stay safe in those interactions. I have talked to dozens of young people who have had experiences like mine. And I know firsthand how much it messes with you. Because of them, I’m doing what I can to help change things and am acting as a witness in a lawsuit brought by the Center for Constitutional Rights to stop the police from racially profiling and harassing black and brown people in New York.

It feels like an important thing to be part of a community of hundreds of thousands of people who are wrongfully stopped on their way to work, school, church or shopping, and are patted down or worse by the police though they carry no weapon; and searched for no reason other than the color of their skin. I hope police practices will change and that when I have children I won’t need to pass along my mother’s advice.
Highlights from the ACLU report:
The 685,724 stops in 2011 (an increase of 14 percent from 2010) were spread unevenly amongst the city’s 76 precincts, with the 75th Precinct (East New York) leading the city with 31,100 stops. Setting aside the Central Park Precinct (22nd), the 94th Precinct (Greenpoint) had the fewest stops at 2,023.

In 70 out of 76 precincts, black and Latino New Yorkers accounted for more than 50 percent of stops, and in 33 precincts they accounted for more than 90 percent of stops. In the 10 precincts with the lowest black and Latino populations (such as the 6th Precinct in Greenwich Village), blacks and Latinos accounted for more than 70 percent of stops in six of those precincts.

Young black and Latino men were the targets of a hugely disproportionate number of stops. Though they account for only 4.7 percent of the city’s population, black and Latino males between the ages of 14 and 24 accounted for 41.6 percent of stops in 2011. The number of stops of young black men exceeded the entire city population of young black men (168,126 as compared to 158,406). Ninety percent of young black and Latino men stopped were innocent.

Though frisks are to be conducted only when an officer reasonably suspects the person has a weapon that might endanger officer safety, 55.7 percent of those stopped were frisked. Of those frisked, a weapon was found only 1.9 percent of the time. Frisks varied enormously by precinct, with officers in the 46th Precinct in the Bronx frisking people 80.4 percent of the time, as compared to a low of 27.5 percent in the 17th Precinct on the East Side of Manhattan.

Black and Latino New Yorkers were more likely to be frisked than whites and, among those frisked, were less likely to be found with a weapon. In 2011 as compared to 2003 (the earliest year a gun recovery figure is available), the NYPD conducted 524,873 more stops but recovered only 176 more guns. This amounts to an additional recovery rate of three one-hundredths of one percent.

Of the 605,328 stops of innocent people in 2011, 53.6 percent were frisked. The 75th Precinct led the city in stops of innocent people with 27,672 such stops. Excluding the Central Park Precinct, the 94th Precinct had the fewest with 1,843.
You know, sometimes I start feeling down or frustrated, like this world is just too hard to live in. When that happens I just remember that I'm not black and then I feel better!
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Thanas »

Typical NYPD.
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Agent Fisher »

Well, I'm not defending the disproportionately high number of stops of minorities, or anything. But the frisking is pretty much an automatic response. It's just officer safety. I mean, yeah, you're only supposed to frisk if you believe they have a weapon, but every law enforcement officer, trainer, and security trainer I've ever talked to says assume someone has a weapon until you confirm otherwise. Doesn't mean you always frisk, especially as a security officer, but it does mean you're extra cautious. And yeah, it'd be great if cops had something that would let them know automatically if someone had a knife or gun on them and that way they could skip the friskings, but they don't, so I'm not getting too bent out of shape over that aspect.

But again, the disproportionate amount of minority stops, yeah, that's a problem and needs to change. But they only way that's gonna change is over time.

EDIT
Or I guess, completely gutting the entire NYPD command staff and senior field officers, and replacing them all.
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Simon_Jester »

It changed over time in the first place- seeing as how it sextupled in the past nine years...
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

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Agent Fisher wrote:Well, I'm not defending the disproportionately high number of stops of minorities, or anything. But the frisking is pretty much an automatic response. It's just officer safety. I mean, yeah, you're only supposed to frisk if you believe they have a weapon, but every law enforcement officer, trainer, and security trainer I've ever talked to says assume someone has a weapon until you confirm otherwise. Doesn't mean you always frisk, especially as a security officer, but it does mean you're extra cautious. And yeah, it'd be great if cops had something that would let them know automatically if someone had a knife or gun on them and that way they could skip the friskings, but they don't, so I'm not getting too bent out of shape over that aspect.
How does the 4th amendment mean anything if officers can just go "oh, he might have a weapon" with no indications and start frisking people?
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Agent Fisher »

lol, you actually think the Bill of Rights means anything besides the 2nd amendment?

Seriously though, for me, at least, I can frisk someone only for weapons. And I've done it when I've arrested someone, or found someone trespassing and I was gonna be dealing with them for an extended period of time, so I asked if I could do a pat down. Now if I find something else, I leave it in the pocket. Now, having re-read the articles, I realized I might be misreading things, I thought at first, these officers might have had other reasons for stop and frisk, than just, 'oh that guy looks like he's carrying'. I mean, in the article, the second and third stories that Peart tells, the one in 2008 and 2010, they may have been searching for a suspect that fit his description. They roll up, see him, hop out, do a quick pat down to make sure he isn't armed, and once they confirm his ID, they leave.
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Vehrec »

The stops described in the article might be routine and safe and non-traumatic to you, but to me they seem absolutely INSANE. Assume EVERYONE is armed? Pulling the gun and pointing it at someone because he wasn't fast enough with the getting on the ground? These are not the actions of my friends, these are the actions of people who are convinced that I might kill them and the slightest twitch will make them pull and fire to kill me instead.

Though I should note, I would be immune to this bullshit due to being white. I'd have to chew the cops out and insult them on the street to get treated like this.
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Mr Bean »

Vehrec wrote:
Though I should note, I would be immune to this bullshit due to being white. I'd have to chew the cops out and insult them on the street to get treated like this.
For many years as would I because I dressed and walked in a way according to an MP friend of mine that screamed "off duty cop/ex-military", despite my mash up of ethnic groups I look strongly Caucasian. I've never been bothered by the police except for speeding tickets and that one time they thought I was running a meth lab out in the woods (Funny story it was not a meth lab) but other than that even when passing cops on the street in a high crime neighborhood I've never been touched. I can pass a cop on the street look him in the eye and nod my head knowing he will nod back to me maybe even smile or nod back him or herself. If I'm at a scene I can ask cops questions and will get responses back not generic shut up but spoken more politely.

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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Alyeska »

Part of the problem is the quota system that the NYPD suffers under where they have to continue catching criminals even when crime rates are falling. So with a quota system that punishes cops for not catching enough bad guys, the cops fall back on stereotypes, or they simply target minorities due to their lack of political power.

The graphs show that these problems have increased. So it wasn't as bad. I honestly think the racial profiling of stop and frisks is very closely tied to the quota system that Adrian Schoolcraft blew the whistle about.
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Grumman »

The Western Australian police wanted to do the same bullshit here - fortunately it didn't make it through parliament.
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

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Agent Fisher wrote:lol, you actually think the Bill of Rights means anything besides the 2nd amendment?

Seriously though, for me, at least, I can frisk someone only for weapons. And I've done it when I've arrested someone, or found someone trespassing and I was gonna be dealing with them for an extended period of time, so I asked if I could do a pat down. Now if I find something else, I leave it in the pocket. Now, having re-read the articles, I realized I might be misreading things, I thought at first, these officers might have had other reasons for stop and frisk, than just, 'oh that guy looks like he's carrying'. I mean, in the article, the second and third stories that Peart tells, the one in 2008 and 2010, they may have been searching for a suspect that fit his description. They roll up, see him, hop out, do a quick pat down to make sure he isn't armed, and once they confirm his ID, they leave.
That's a fair point. I agree with it and commend you for your restraint in only searching for weapons, because it seems to me a lot of those NYPD cops would happily accept anything else as a pretext for an arrest, like finding marijuana etc.
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Raw Shark »

Vehrec wrote:Though I should note, I would be immune to this bullshit due to being white. I'd have to chew the cops out and insult them on the street to get treated like this.
Yeah, hold on to that dream. Speaking as a white guy, I have been stopped and frisked, have had a gun pointed at me for slow reflexes, have had my legal property confiscated and not given back during an incident that did not result in criminal charges, and pretty much all the bullshit described in the article except trying to break into my apartment. A significant fraction of cops are bullying douchebags to everybody - It just happens to black people more.

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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

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Raw Shark wrote: Yeah, hold on to that dream. Speaking as a white guy, I have been stopped and frisked, have had a gun pointed at me for slow reflexes, have had my legal property confiscated and not given back during an incident that did not result in criminal charges, and pretty much all the bullshit described in the article except trying to break into my apartment. A significant fraction of cops are bullying douchebags to everybody - It just happens to black people more.
Question Raw Shark do you look more like

A
Image
or

B
Image

Obvious tattoos, facial hair, and other things means the difference between being profiled as a nice white guy or a skinhead, biker, trailer trash or other group that the police as cautions around. To be blunt the difference is I can go out dressed like a Lawyer or successful businessman and know that no police officer is going to stop me to ask what I'm doing anyplace outside a restricted area. But if I put on sneakers some sweat pants and a hoddie I'm not going to get that same reaction from the police. The difference is as the author noted if your minority and dressed well your going to be stopped anyway.

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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Agent Fisher »

Thanas wrote:
Agent Fisher wrote:lol, you actually think the Bill of Rights means anything besides the 2nd amendment?

Seriously though, for me, at least, I can frisk someone only for weapons. And I've done it when I've arrested someone, or found someone trespassing and I was gonna be dealing with them for an extended period of time, so I asked if I could do a pat down. Now if I find something else, I leave it in the pocket. Now, having re-read the articles, I realized I might be misreading things, I thought at first, these officers might have had other reasons for stop and frisk, than just, 'oh that guy looks like he's carrying'. I mean, in the article, the second and third stories that Peart tells, the one in 2008 and 2010, they may have been searching for a suspect that fit his description. They roll up, see him, hop out, do a quick pat down to make sure he isn't armed, and once they confirm his ID, they leave.
That's a fair point. I agree with it and commend you for your restraint in only searching for weapons, because it seems to me a lot of those NYPD cops would happily accept anything else as a pretext for an arrest, like finding marijuana etc.
Well, you don't really need to commend me on that, the searching only for weapon things is state law for security officers.
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Raw Shark »

Mr Bean wrote:Question Raw Shark do you look more like

A [snip]
or
B [snip]

Obvious tattoos, facial hair, and other things means the difference between being profiled as a nice white guy or a skinhead, biker, trailer trash or other group that the police as cautions around. To be blunt the difference is I can go out dressed like a Lawyer or successful businessman and know that no police officer is going to stop me to ask what I'm doing anyplace outside a restricted area. But if I put on sneakers some sweat pants and a hoddie I'm not going to get that same reaction from the police. The difference is as the author noted if your minority and dressed well your going to be stopped anyway.
I don't disagree with that, but being bald and having tattoos or facial hair is not chewing the cops out or insulting them in the street.

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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

The numbers are a cause for concern but how many of those are repeats? In my city on a daily bases the same person could be stopped multiple times a day. One man, a white man, was stopped over 600 times a year. This man is a transient who routinely gets so intoxicated that he passes out on sidewalks, streets, private property, etc. If you were to total up the number of white males stopped in my city he would account for over 600 of those stops. There are many other white males that have nearly the same amount of encounters. I can only imagine NYC would be far higher. I'm sure racism is a factor for individual officers but it seems like there are other problems that could also explain this...like the quota requirement. Jumping straight to department sanctioned racism is very hasty.

As for the anecdotal stories. They are concerning and should be investigated.

Also, the US Census shows there are two million african americans living inside NYC.
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Simon_Jester »

KS, stop and think about this. New York may have lots of black and Latino people, more than it did ten years ago, sure. But it doesn't have six times as many black people as it did ten years ago. The crime rate's lower now than it was then, so there aren't six times as many criminals per thousand law abiding citizens. There aren't six times as many policemen, so it's not just a case of each officer seeing one person to stop and frisk every day.

And yet, look at the graph. For some reason, black and Latino people in New York are getting stopped and frisked six times more often than they were ten years ago.

How in the hell do you explain that without racism?
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Steel »

Simon_Jester wrote:KS, stop and think about this. New York may have lots of black and Latino people, more than it did ten years ago, sure. But it doesn't have six times as many black people as it did ten years ago. The crime rate's lower now than it was then, so there aren't six times as many criminals per thousand law abiding citizens. There aren't six times as many policemen, so it's not just a case of each officer seeing one person to stop and frisk every day.

And yet, look at the graph. For some reason, black and Latino people in New York are getting stopped and frisked six times more often than they were ten years ago.

How in the hell do you explain that without racism?
Where are you getting any of this from?

The article shows that TOTAL stops are up by a factor of 7, and young black males CURRENTLY form 25% of stops.

How does this equate to racism without accounting for the demographics to show that these minorities are disproportionately targeted, which the article along does not explicitly do.*

The assertion may be valid, but this data does not help establish it.

*as an example, it may be that searches are conducted only on young males and there are disproportionately more young black males. This would produce the same statistics, yet the police are entirely not racist, but very ageist.
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Simon_Jester wrote:KS, stop and think about this. New York may have lots of black and Latino people, more than it did ten years ago, sure. But it doesn't have six times as many black people as it did ten years ago. The crime rate's lower now than it was then, so there aren't six times as many criminals per thousand law abiding citizens. There aren't six times as many policemen, so it's not just a case of each officer seeing one person to stop and frisk every day.
Simon, I didn't even suggest population increase had anything to do with this. My point was that the same person can be stopped multiple times a day. If you have a dozen or so people that are stopped over 600 times a year then that is 7200 stops per year of the same 12 people.

I mentioned the number of blacks that live in NYC because the article states that 158,000 (apprx) is more than the total number of young blacks living in the entire city which seems like a very low number. I wasn't attempting to correlate an increase of population with the increase in stops.
And yet, look at the graph. For some reason, black and Latino people in New York are getting stopped and frisked six times more often than they were ten years ago.

How in the hell do you explain that without racism?
I didn't say racism wasn't a factor. Please, read my posts. Another factor to consider is the number of street gangs in these precincts and their demographics. The report doesn't factor in any of this information.
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Dominus Atheos
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Dominus Atheos »

Kamakazie Sith wrote:I mentioned the number of blacks that live in NYC because the article states that 158,000 (apprx) is more than the total number of young blacks living in the entire city which seems like a very low number. I wasn't attempting to correlate an increase of population with the increase in stops.
You misread that number. 158,000 is the number of young back men between the age of 14 to 24.
And yet, look at the graph. For some reason, black and Latino people in New York are getting stopped and frisked six times more often than they were ten years ago.

How in the hell do you explain that without racism?
I didn't say racism wasn't a factor. Please, read my posts. Another factor to consider is the number of street gangs in these precincts and their demographics. The report doesn't factor in any of this information.
Did you even read the PDF report? It covers that quite clearly:
The Report, page 6 wrote:The NYPD often seeks to justify the high percentage of stops of black and Latino New Yorkers by contending that those high percentages merely reflect the concentration of stop-and-frisk activity in high-crime precincts that are black and Latino. While there are many responses to this contention that are beyond the scope of this report, the 2011 data are striking in what they reveal about the large percentages of blacks and Latinos being stopped in precincts that have substantial percentages of white residents.

For instance, the population of the 17thPrecinct, which covers the East Side of Manhattan, has the lowest percentage of black and Latino residents in the city at 7.8 percent, yet 71.4 percent of those stopped in the precinct were black or Latino. Similarly, the 6th Precinct, covering Greenwich Village, is 8 percent black and Latino, yet 76.6 percent of stops in that precinct were of blacks and Latinos. The figures for the 10 precincts with the lowest black and Latino populations are as follows:

Stop-and-Frisk 2011
Stops in the 10 Lowest Black and Latino Precincts

{1st part}Precinct Neighborhoods

{1st percentage}Black, Latino Population* (out of total residents)

{2nd percentage}Black, Latino Stops (out of total stops)

17 Kipps Bay, Murray Hill, Turtle Bay 7.8% 71.4%
6 Greenwich Village, Soho 8.0% 76.6%
19 Upper East Side 9.0% 71.0%
123 Tottenville, Bay Terrace 9.4% 14.8%
1 Financial District, Tribeca 10.0% 75.7%
61 Sheepshead Bay 11.5% 47.2%
111 Bayside, Douglaston, Little Neck 12.1% 47.6%
20 Upper West Side (south) 12.1% 71.6%
13 Gramercy, Stuyvesant Town 13.8% 71.4%
62 Bensonhurst 14.1% 40.4%
*Population data from the 2010 Census.

Young black and Latino males were the targets of a hugely disproportionate number of stops in 2011. While black and Latino males between the ages of 14 and 24 account for only 4.7 percent of the city’s population, they accounted for 41.6 percent of those stopped. By contrast, white males between the ages 14 and 24 make up 2 percent of the city’s population but accounted for 3.8 percent of stops. Remarkably, the number of stops of young black men last year actually exceeded the total number of young black men in the city (168,126 as compared to 158,406).
Unless Wall Street and Greenwich Village have a huge gang problem for them to have 70% of stop and frisks be minorities while making up less then 10% of their populations.
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

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Agent Fisher wrote:Well, I'm not defending the disproportionately high number of stops of minorities, or anything. But the frisking is pretty much an automatic response. It's just officer safety. I mean, yeah, you're only supposed to frisk if you believe they have a weapon, but every law enforcement officer, trainer, and security trainer I've ever talked to says assume someone has a weapon until you confirm otherwise. Doesn't mean you always frisk, especially as a security officer, but it does mean you're extra cautious. And yeah, it'd be great if cops had something that would let them know automatically if someone had a knife or gun on them and that way they could skip the friskings, but they don't, so I'm not getting too bent out of shape over that aspect.
Have you ever been frisked? I have, just once, at my own fucking High School graduation. For some reason, I'm just not cool with some guy (or girl for that matter) running his hands down my inner thighs in public. It's degrading and quite infuriating. I don't patronize businesses that enforce patdowns (like some sporting venues) either for that specific reason. Too bad being in public basically makes you a suspect anywhere.

Getting arrested or being a suspect in a violent crime is one thing, but "you look like X" or "fit the description of Y" sounds like bullshit excuses and it probably is. Hilarity at "we molested you because someone had their doorbell rang. Ding-Dong Ditching is serious business in the great state of New York." They can't even make an effort to come up with good bullshit.
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Dominus Atheos wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:I mentioned the number of blacks that live in NYC because the article states that 158,000 (apprx) is more than the total number of young blacks living in the entire city which seems like a very low number. I wasn't attempting to correlate an increase of population with the increase in stops.
You misread that number. 158,000 is the number of young back men between the age of 14 to 24.
Ah. The PDF does cover that. The article does not.
Did you even read the PDF report? It covers that quite clearly
It doesn't cover it at all. Where is the information regarding gang member numbers in these precincts. Where are the numbers in which those stopped are identified as gang members? Also, what are the crime statistics in these areas?

The Report, page 6 wrote:The NYPD often seeks to justify the high percentage of stops of black and Latino New Yorkers by contending that those high percentages merely reflect the concentration of stop-and-frisk activity in high-crime precincts that are black and Latino. While there are many responses to this contention that are beyond the scope of this report, the 2011 data are striking in what they reveal about the large percentages of blacks and Latinos being stopped in precincts that have substantial percentages of white residents.

For instance, the population of the 17thPrecinct, which covers the East Side of Manhattan, has the lowest percentage of black and Latino residents in the city at 7.8 percent, yet 71.4 percent of those stopped in the precinct were black or Latino. Similarly, the 6th Precinct, covering Greenwich Village, is 8 percent black and Latino, yet 76.6 percent of stops in that precinct were of blacks and Latinos. The figures for the 10 precincts with the lowest black and Latino populations are as follows:

Stop-and-Frisk 2011
Stops in the 10 Lowest Black and Latino Precincts

{1st part}Precinct Neighborhoods

{1st percentage}Black, Latino Population* (out of total residents)

{2nd percentage}Black, Latino Stops (out of total stops)

17 Kipps Bay, Murray Hill, Turtle Bay 7.8% 71.4%
6 Greenwich Village, Soho 8.0% 76.6%
19 Upper East Side 9.0% 71.0%
123 Tottenville, Bay Terrace 9.4% 14.8%
1 Financial District, Tribeca 10.0% 75.7%
61 Sheepshead Bay 11.5% 47.2%
111 Bayside, Douglaston, Little Neck 12.1% 47.6%
20 Upper West Side (south) 12.1% 71.6%
13 Gramercy, Stuyvesant Town 13.8% 71.4%
62 Bensonhurst 14.1% 40.4%
*Population data from the 2010 Census.

Young black and Latino males were the targets of a hugely disproportionate number of stops in 2011. While black and Latino males between the ages of 14 and 24 account for only 4.7 percent of the city’s population, they accounted for 41.6 percent of those stopped. By contrast, white males between the ages 14 and 24 make up 2 percent of the city’s population but accounted for 3.8 percent of stops. Remarkably, the number of stops of young black men last year actually exceeded the total number of young black men in the city (168,126 as compared to 158,406).
Unless Wall Street and Greenwich Village have a huge gang problem for them to have 70% of stop and frisks be minorities while making up less then 10% of their populations.[/quote]

Greenwhich Village Crime Rate Among Highest in City

On the other hand Kips Bay, and Turtle Bay have very low crime statistics. So, that's an issue worth further attention and it does appear that racism is a factor.
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

TheFeniX wrote:Have you ever been frisked? I have, just once, at my own fucking High School graduation. For some reason, I'm just not cool with some guy (or girl for that matter) running his hands down my inner thighs in public. It's degrading and quite infuriating. I don't patronize businesses that enforce patdowns (like some sporting venues) either for that specific reason. Too bad being in public basically makes you a suspect anywhere.

Getting arrested or being a suspect in a violent crime is one thing, but "you look like X" or "fit the description of Y" sounds like bullshit excuses and it probably is. Hilarity at "we molested you because someone had their doorbell rang. Ding-Dong Ditching is serious business in the great state of New York." They can't even make an effort to come up with good bullshit.
According to my training "assuming everyone is dangerous" or "someone looks dangerous" is not a valid reason to conduct a terry frisk. Articulable facts are required to justified a terry frisk such as a person wearing gang clothing, symbols, and tattoos. A person puts their hands in their pockets after being told to not do that. A person fits the description of a suspect wanted for committing a violent felony.

Also. a terry frisk must be restricted to the outside of the clothing and in areas where carrying a weapon is likely...like the waist band and pockets. Most people don't carry weapons on the inside of their thighs near their genitals while wearing pants.
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by TheFeniX »

Kamakazie Sith wrote:According to my training "assuming everyone is dangerous" or "someone looks dangerous" is not a valid reason to conduct a terry frisk. Articulable facts are required to justified a terry frisk such as a person wearing gang clothing, symbols, and tattoos. A person puts their hands in their pockets after being told to not do that. A person fits the description of a suspect wanted for committing a violent felony.
I'm sure what you said applies to "acceptable looking" white persons. If you happen to be Hispanic and on leave from serving in Iraq, don't jog on public roads and happen to pass your old high school while the parking lot is empty (because it's the middle of Summer). As my friend found out, being Mexican in public is an excuse to be searched and patted down, even after showing a valid military ID.

I don't buy into all the white guilt stuff, but I still laugh in a pathetic way when I remember the conversation. I told him he should "call X," "get a lawyer," "sue that racist fuck."

"You're white dude, you don't understand. Just let it go, I did."
Also. a terry frisk must be restricted to the outside of the clothing and in areas where carrying a weapon is likely...like the waist band and pockets. Most people don't carry weapons on the inside of their thighs near their genitals while wearing pants.
I'm not Ron Jeremy, but this cop managed to get a pretty good feel of what I have to offer. Since this was in 2000, I didn't even get the benefit of the backside of his hand bullshit the TSA uses in their effort to convince us we aren't being molested. I got full on "man grabbed my dick." I'm sure the experience wasn't pleasant for either of us, but I drew the short straw. What justified our entire senior class getting molested? They wanted to enforce the school ban on cell phones on campus......

In a effort to lighten my own mood, I will post a link to this video.
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Re: NYPD are racist as all fuck

Post by Cosmic Average »

Let's throw out some other numbers:

First, minorities make up 53% of the New York City patrol officers:
Of the 22,199 officers on patrol, nearly 53% were black, Latino or Asian, marking the first time minorities outnumbered whites by any significant measure, according to police department statistics reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. Minorities had been in a dead-heat with white patrol officers since late 2006, and began inching toward a majority in 2008.
Link

Second, African-American's make up around 25% of New York City's population.
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