Modern day culture, taxes and public services

[ray245]

The current libertarian movement is something that is more or less confined to first world nations. One of the main thing I've hear from libertarian ( online at the very least) is the desire to reduce taxation to its minimum levels. One of the easiest counter-arguments that most libertarian could not counter is the need for sufficient taxes to fund the necessary public services.

So I was wondering, does our modern day culture have something to do with people's lack of understanding towards the need for taxation? I am not sure whether schools in North America actually bothered to teach students about nature of taxation, but it is something that is hardly discussed here in Singapore.

The only exposure that most children would have to the issue of taxation is parents complaining about the raising of taxes, without any clear idea what is the purpose of taxation. With the addition point that public services in first world nation are generally very well developed, I know quite a few youngsters that could not even connect the dots between taxation and public services.

Is our modern day culture beginning to take our public services and amenities for granted? Does it have a role to play in why there is a recent revival in the popularity of libertarianism?

[Napoleon the Clown]

Try and remember what the primary age group of non-wealthy libertarians is. They're young kids (well, late teens to mid thirties...) who think they've found the secret to how the world works. It's pretty much the same demographic as the people who wear Che Guevera shirts and are actually serious about it. "I know the secret! Everyone who doesn't is misled or corrupt!"

So essentially it's a bunch of people who have no idea how the world works but are firmly convinced that they know better than the people who have decades of experience in the field.


As to public services, I'd say most libertarians think that the Free Market (hallowed be Its name) will provide for everything at a reasonable price, better than government can. A disturbing number of self-identified libertarians think the government is the source of most, if not all, ills.

[Blayne]

Doesn't help that Libertarians are over represented in the IT and game design sector, the bootstraps mentality is strong there due to the massive amount of work that had to be done to get where we are today. People worked so hard they're against things like unionization that would make things fairer for the next generation, and since they're the most tech and internet savy they have a loud voice on the internet.

[PainRack]

Ray, you read the libertarian blogs in Singapore?

Somehow, many people linked political freedom to economic freedom. So, if one is good, the other is good, and more is best.

[Grumman]

The current libertarian movement is something that is more or less confined to first world nations. One of the main thing I've hear from libertarian ( online at the very least) is the desire to reduce taxation to its minimum levels. One of the easiest counter-arguments that most libertarian could not counter is the need for sufficient taxes to fund the necessary public services.

As a libertarian, I support sufficient taxes to fund the necessary public services. But taxes are fungible, and I don't want the government to come to the taxpayer, cap in hand, until they've tightened their belt a bit and cannibalised some of their more odious programs. Save yourself $20 billion a year by legalising marijuana and killing the TSA's security theatre, and any claims you "need" to raise taxes start sounding more believable.

[Simon_Jester]

And if doing so means banging their head against a wall of citizens who demand the programs stay in place to preserve their law-and-order fixation and provide them with the required security theater? What then?

[Serafina]

Governments ultimately needto raise sufficient taxes to pay for basic public services, to prevent civilization from collapsing.
Governments ultimately should raise sufficient taxes to pay for whatever their citizens demand.

[weemadando]

Also a lot of people don't understand just how heavily regulated, controlled and audited the public services are (in Australia at least).

The idea of the "Public Service Fat Cat" who sits at a desk shuffling papers all day is hilarious to me as it's the public's demand for accountability which leads us to having 2, 3 and even 4 levels of approvals which need to be gained before spending and an additional 2-4 steps of internal auditing on all expenditure that happens once you do spend.'

It's a frequent point of discussion as to whether or not we're saving money by cutting down on misuse, fraud and bad expenditure, or costing money because we spend so much time on all of our accountability.

But in the end it's the public's money and we have to be accountable for every cent.

[madd0ct0r]

The current libertarian movement is something that is more or less confined to first world nations.

No.

it's just you hear about 1st world nations more. By any yardstick, the government over here (vietnam) is wasteful, bloated and ineffective.

For certain branches of the intelligensia, Ayn Rand's separation of society into those who do the work and those who hold them back is pretty close to the truth.

For many of the students returning from study /work abroad, government red tape designed purely to create bribery points means most start-ups just operate undercover for as long as they can.

In general, goverment s seen as an obstacle. On matters like healthcare, industry oversight or food standards - it isn't trusted.