Where are the Republican Guards?

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-03-21 12:00pm

So far it seems as if the US coalition forces have met very minimal resistance upon their advance mostly from poor under-fed troops. So, where are the rest of their divisions, and more importantly.. where are the Republican Guards? It seems as if they pulled them all back into the cities since last time they went toe to toe over open ground with the US cost them dearly.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-03-21 12:07pm

They'll most likely be in or around Bagdad , or some other strategic positions.
They won't be so stupid to try some huge battles on open ground...

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-03-21 12:48pm

There's a report from Sky News, several hours old now, that the 3rd ID was halted at An-Nasiriyah by what's apparently an RGFC force. There was another report of U.S. forces being halted while attempting to cross the Euphrates; putting two and two together, an RGFC force may have been stationed to defend the Euphrates crossing at An-Nasiriyah.

Dirty Harry · Post by **Dirty Harry** » 2003-03-21 01:18pm

I heard that the Republican guard unit earmarked for the defense of Basra was pulled back to Baghdad a while ago.

Posbi · Post by **Posbi** » 2003-03-21 01:32pm

They said in the news that Basra's expected to fall this night...what the hell are the Iraquis doing?

They had literally months to prepare their defenses, they know the terrain, and last but not least, they are defending their homes! And yet, their performance till now seems to be even worse than in the 2nd Gulf War. And this comes from someone with a raher neutral POV (well, that's not true, I got relatives fighting in the US forces down there).

I mean, just look at the casualties so far. One allied soldier kia. One! That's either pure incompetance or simply a total lack of fighting on the Iraqis' side. They did an amphibious assault on Fao while US Marines attacked the harbour city of Al Kuurn (?Marina?). That means inner-city fighting, an environment in which the usefulness of the US high-tech arsenal is severly limited. And they took it in less than one day.

And if it's true that Saddam's recalled the RG Corps that was leading the defense of Basra, one can, considering the recent events, count on the fact that the attack on Iraq's second largest city will start tonight...

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2003-03-21 01:38pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:There's a report from Sky News, several hours old now, that the 3rd ID was halted at An-Nasiriyah by what's apparently an RGFC force. There was another report of U.S. forces being halted while attempting to cross the Euphrates; putting two and two together, an RGFC force may have been stationed to defend the Euphrates crossing at An-Nasiriyah.

They had another report yesterday that stated, roughly, that 20% (give or take a few) of the Republican Guard units in Baghdad were fragmenting.

Not that I blame them...

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-03-21 01:43pm

You have to undertsand that the vast majority of the army are conscripts that are forced to figfht. So now when faced with the prospect of fighting and dying for a man they despise, well, they would much rather lay down their arms. The elite core of his army, the Republican Guard are the ones that will be doing the fighting and dying for him. The rest of the army is probably fleeing their positions, trying to get the hell out of the way of the oncoming coalition forces. Reporters have been seeing abandoned vehicles and positions littering the roads on their way into Iraq lending credence to this notion.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-03-21 01:44pm

Dahak wrote:They'll most likely be in or around Bagdad , or some other strategic positions.
They won't be so stupid to try some huge battles on open ground...

That's probably the best answer. They're hoping to draw coalition forces into a MOUT fight.

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-03-21 01:50pm

Any word on the RG commander that was negotiating a surrender? Was he negotiating his own personal defection or the surrender of his force? There's been a lot of talk that Saddam was wounded badly in the first attack-- Fox said he was seen pulled out of a ruined bunker on a gurney with a oxy mask on-- so if he's incapacitated (or dead) there'd be a lot of fragmenting in the ranks.

Analysts so far says that there is a remarkable lack of cohesion among Iraqi forces, too, supporting the idea that the head is, if not dead, then not entirely functioning.

Of course, I can easily see an ambitious and ballsy RG commander trying to stage a coup and set himself up as the provisional leader in the jhopes that the Americans would accept and support him. I don't think any RG leader should escape scrutiny for past actions, though, since they were probably the ones in charge of ethnic cleansings of Kurds and Shi'ites...

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2003-03-21 02:05pm

Lets hope the bastard's dead. Of course, if that is so, someone, somewhere, will probably hold him up as a martyr...

FireNexus · Post by **FireNexus** » 2003-03-21 02:55pm

"They talked about them in these hushed tones, like: 'We're doing well, but we have yet to face the Elite Republican guard" As if they're 10 feet tall, desert warriors! Never lost a battle! We shit bullets!

"Well, after a month of continuous carpet bombing and not ONE response from these people, they becam simply "The Republican Guard". Not quite as elite as we would have had you believe. After more carpet bombing and zero response, they went from "The Republican Guard" to "The Republicans made this shit up about their being guards out here. Please enjoy your fireworks show." --Bill Hicks, on the original Gulf War

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-21 03:04pm

Coyote wrote:Any word on the RG commander that was negotiating a surrender? Was he negotiating his own personal defection or the surrender of his force?

No word that I've heard. He was probably trying to defect and maybe take his force with him.

Coyote wrote:There's been a lot of talk that Saddam was wounded badly in the first attack-- Fox said he was seen pulled out of a ruined bunker on a gurney with a oxy mask on-- so if he's incapacitated (or dead) there'd be a lot of fragmenting in the ranks.

Analysts so far says that there is a remarkable lack of cohesion among Iraqi forces, too, supporting the idea that the head is, if not dead, then not entirely functioning.

It's possible we got Saddam. But I doubt it. If those sources were more reliable it would be something widely talked about.

The confusion are probably the results of strikes on the Iraqi command structure. It's what we need in the first war and it worked. Once the higher up are taken out coscript armies tend to fall apart, even more in Arab armies.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2003-03-21 03:06pm

The Republican Guard is overestimated.
Their equipment is outdated and they're still less trained than the normal US or UK soldier, however they come much closer than the army conscripts.
Anyway, most of them are probably hiding in Bagdhad.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-03-21 03:13pm

There was the same question during the 1st Gulf War.

It started off the ELITE Republican Guard Duh Duh Dah. After one week of carpet bombing it became The Republican Guard not so ELITE now, one more week of carpet bombing and it became just the Guards and after one more week of bombing it became The Republicans where making this shit up about their being guards.

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2003-03-21 03:28pm

Posbi wrote:They said in the news that Basra's expected to fall this night...what the hell are the Iraquis doing?
They had literally months to prepare their defenses, they know the terrain, and last but not least, they are defending their homes! And yet, their performance till now seems to be even worse than in the 2nd Gulf War. And this comes from someone with a raher neutral POV (well, that's not true, I got relatives fighting in the US forces down there).

I mean, just look at the casualties so far. One allied soldier kia. One! That's either pure incompetance or simply a total lack of fighting on the Iraqis' side. They did an amphibious assault on Fao while US Marines attacked the harbour city of Al Kuurn (?Marina?). That means inner-city fighting, an environment in which the usefulness of the US high-tech arsenal is severly limited. And they took it in less than one day.

And if it's true that Saddam's recalled the RG Corps that was leading the defense of Basra, one can, considering the recent events, count on the fact that the attack on Iraq's second largest city will start tonight...

IMHO: However not a single Iraqi conscript truly , when its decision time, has the desire to fight for Saddam. They might on camera and in the press mouth all the proper phrases, be Anti-American and Cheer the name of Saddam, but in reallity they despise and fear him, and this time were really coming to take him out, why fight and die for nothing. They would much rather surrender, or go awol and return to their famlies.

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-03-21 07:05pm

The Republican Guard divisions got a reputation because they were the only divisions that actually stood and fought during the first war; the Tawakalna Division made the fight for the Kuwait City airport a bloody affair, and the Nebuchadnezzar and Hammurabi divisions, I believe, stayed in their trenches and bunkers instead of flee like the rest...

But this time, they know the Boss is going down, so they may just lay low. Imagine-- an enemy army invades and the home team just hides and lets them go and kill the leader. They sure must love this guy.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-21 07:10pm

Coyote wrote:The Republican Guard divisions got a reputation because they were the only divisions that actually stood and fought during the first war; the Tawakalna Division made the fight for the Kuwait City airport a bloody affair, and the Nebuchadnezzar and Hammurabi divisions, I believe, stayed in their trenches and bunkers instead of flee like the rest...

But this time, they know the Boss is going down, so they may just lay low. Imagine-- an enemy army invades and the home team just hides and lets them go and kill the leader. They sure must love this guy.

The Tawakalna division was deployed in Southern Iraq, it was regualr iraqi Army troops who fought at the Kuwait city airport. Tawakalna and the regular 12th Armored division both stood and fought in the destert. But they where totaly outclassed and where destroyed. The other Republican gaurd division in the field retreated with the Tawakalna screening them. Though Apaches cought several brigades on the roads and took them apart.