Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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More, with video

Excerpts below:
The Pentagon sent a US veteran of the "dirty wars" in Central America to oversee sectarian police commando units in Iraq that set up secret detention and torture centres to get information from insurgents. These units conducted some of the worst acts of torture during the US occupation and accelerated the country's descent into full-scale civil war.

Colonel James Steele was a 58-year-old retired special forces veteran when he was nominated by Donald Rumsfeld to help organise the paramilitaries in an attempt to quell a Sunni insurgency, an investigation by the Guardian and BBC Arabic shows.

After the Pentagon lifted a ban on Shia militias joining the security forces, the special police commando (SPC) membership was increasingly drawn from violent Shia groups such as the Badr brigades.

A second special adviser, retired Colonel James H Coffman, worked alongside Steele in detention centres that were set up with millions of dollars of US funding.

Coffman reported directly to General David Petraeus, sent to Iraq in June 2004 to organise and train the new Iraqi security forces. Steele, who was in Iraq from 2003 to 2005, and returned to the country in 2006, reported directly to Rumsfeld.

The allegations, made by US and Iraqi witnesses in the Guardian/BBC documentary, implicate US advisers for the first time in the human rights abuses committed by the commandos. It is also the first time that Petraeus – who last November was forced to resign as director of the CIA after a sex scandal – has been linked through an adviser to this abuse.

Coffman reported to Petraeus and described himself in an interview with the US military newspaper Stars and Stripes as Petraeus's "eyes and ears out on the ground" in Iraq.

"They worked hand in hand," said General Muntadher al-Samari, who worked with Steele and Coffman for a year while the commandos were being set up. "I never saw them apart in the 40 or 50 times I saw them inside the detention centres. They knew everything that was going on there ... the torture, the most horrible kinds of torture."
[...]
There is no evidence that Steele or Coffman tortured prisoners themselves, only that they were sometimes present in the detention centres where torture took place and were involved in the processing of thousands of detainees.

The Guardian/BBC Arabic investigation was sparked by the release of classified US military logs on WikiLeaks that detailed hundreds of incidents where US soldiers came across tortured detainees in a network of detention centres run by the police commandos across Iraq. Private Bradley Manning, 25, is facing a prison sentence of up to 20 years after he pleaded guilty to leaking the documents.

Samari claimed that torture was routine in the SPC-controlled detention centres. "I remember a 14-year-old who was tied to one of the library's columns. And he was tied up, with his legs above his head. Tied up. His whole body was blue because of the impact of the cables with which he had been beaten."

Gilles Peress, a photographer, came across Steele when he was on assignment for the New York Times, visiting one of the commando centres in the same library, in Samarra. "We were in a room in the library interviewing Steele and I'm looking around I see blood everywhere."

The reporter Peter Maass was also there, working on the story with Peress. "And while this interview was going on with a Saudi jihadi with Jim Steele also in the room, there were these terrible screams, somebody shouting: 'Allah, Allah, Allah!' But it wasn't kind of religious ecstasy or something like that, these were screams of pain and terror."
[....]

SPC detention centres bought video cameras, funded by the US military, which they used to film detainees for the show. When the show began to outrage the Iraqi public, Samari remembers being in the home of General Adnan Thabit – head of the special commandos – when a call came from Petraeus's office demanding that they stop showing tortured men on TV.

"General Petraeus's special translator, Sadi Othman, rang up to pass on a message from General Petraeus telling us not to show the prisoners on TV after they had been tortured," said Samari. "Then 20 minutes later we got a call from the Iraqi ministry of interior telling us the same thing, that General Petraeus didn't want the torture victims shown on TV."


Othman, who now lives in New York, confirmed that he made the phone call on behalf of Petraeus to the head of the SPC to ask him to stop showing the tortured prisoners. "But General Petraeus does not agree with torture," he added. "To suggest he does support torture is horseshit."

Thabit is dismissive of the idea that the Americans he dealt with were unaware of what the commandos were doing. "Until I left, the Americans knew about everything I did; they knew what was going on in the interrogations and they knew the detainees. Even some of the intelligence about the detainees came to us from them – they are lying."

Just before Petraeus and Steele left Iraq in September 2005, Jabr al-Solagh was appointed as the new minister of the interior. Under Solagh, who was closely associated with the violent Badr Brigades militia, allegations of torture and brutality by the commandos soared. It was also widely believed that the units had evolved into death squads.

The Guardian has learned that high-ranking Iraqis who worked with the US after the invasion warned Petraeus of the consequences of appointing Solagh but their pleas were ignored.


The long-term impact of funding and arming this paramilitary force was to unleash a deadly sectarian militia that terrorised the Sunni community and helped germinate a civil war that claimed tens of thousands of lives. At the height of that sectarian conflict, 3,000 bodies a month were strewn on the streets of Iraq.
Good job, Obama.
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

Post by Losonti Tokash »

Well yes, obviously Obama had a critical role in things that happened years before he took office.
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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No, more like he also appointed the guy to higher and higher posts whenever he could.
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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Thanas wrote:No, more like he also appointed the guy to higher and higher posts whenever he could.
Dude, you're a frickin' historian. How are you still able to be surprised by anything my government does?
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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Thanas wrote:No, more like he also appointed the guy to higher and higher posts whenever he could.
Does your use of "also" imply he is to blame for what happened prior to coming into office?
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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JLTucker wrote:
Thanas wrote:No, more like he also appointed the guy to higher and higher posts whenever he could.
Does your use of "also" imply he is to blame for what happened prior to coming into office?
No?
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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Thanas wrote:
JLTucker wrote:
Thanas wrote:No, more like he also appointed the guy to higher and higher posts whenever he could.
Does your use of "also" imply he is to blame for what happened prior to coming into office?
No?
Well, its placement suggests that. "Also" usually means "in addition."
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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Poor translation from German then, where also means something different. Fact is Obama appointed him for his success in Iraq, which did include the above-mentioned stuff. Did he do it fully knowing all the details? That is what I want to know. I want to know if this was stated US policy (based on the article, sure) and if similar stuff is going on in Afghanistan.
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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Is there any high-ranking American officer who has not benefited from torture?
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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KlavoHunter wrote:Is there any high-ranking American officer who has not benefited from torture?
Benefitting from it is a bit of different than being involved in instituting it and sweeping it under the rug.
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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I will be fucking blunt. This enrages me. There is only one thing we can do in order to atone for our national shame at this point. Send a second delegation to Nuremberg and ritualistically treat a great many people like the war criminals they are.

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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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I fear, the only type of justice which might ever be served to high-ranking US officers involved in torture is only a karma police type-of-thing...
Like incidentally dying in an insurgency theater, which happened for example with the US torture teacher in Uruguay.
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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Thanas wrote:KlavoHunter wrote:
Is there any high-ranking American officer who has not benefited from torture?


Benefitting from it is a bit of different than being involved in instituting it and sweeping it under the rug.
You have evidence he intstitued it or swept it under the rug?

Not showing men who had been tortured on TV was perfectly rational given the climate over there. His job was to work to end the sectarian violence, and parading tortured men on TV sure as hell wasn't going to do it. Quite frankly there is absolutely nothing in the article to suggest anything about Petraeus' involvement in this. Maybe he knew it was going on, and couldn't do much about it. Maybe he did do something about it. There is no evidence either way on that front.
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

TheHammer wrote:
Thanas wrote:KlavoHunter wrote:
Is there any high-ranking American officer who has not benefited from torture?


Benefitting from it is a bit of different than being involved in instituting it and sweeping it under the rug.
You have evidence he intstitued it or swept it under the rug?

Not showing men who had been tortured on TV was perfectly rational given the climate over there. His job was to work to end the sectarian violence, and parading tortured men on TV sure as hell wasn't going to do it. Quite frankly there is absolutely nothing in the article to suggest anything about Petraeus' involvement in this. Maybe he knew it was going on, and couldn't do much about it. Maybe he did do something about it. There is no evidence either way on that front.
Listen you sack of fucking ratshit. Iraq was, at the time, a fully occupied country. Election or no election, Iraq was not exactly sovereign. Not by a long shot. Patraeus was the guy in charge of training Iraq's internal security forces--military, police, etc.

So how the fuck is it that there might conceivably be nothing he could have done? Those dudes took oaths. They belonged to a national military. They could have been arrested by american troops and dragged into The Hague in chains. But they were not.
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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TheHammer wrote:You have evidence he intstitued it or swept it under the rug?
Asking the media to not run stories on it is pretty much sweeping it under the rug. Forming, commanding and selecting the commander of the forces who did it and keeping that commander despite protests is instituting or condoning it.
Not showing men who had been tortured on TV was perfectly rational given the climate over there. His job was to work to end the sectarian violence, and parading tortured men on TV sure as hell wasn't going to do it.
Neither was condoning it or sweeping it under the rug. Protip - an action can be both covering something up and preventing sectarian violence. And if he wanted to end sectarian violence he did a heck of a job of that by promoting a guy others did not want because he caused sectarian violence.
Quite frankly there is absolutely nothing in the article to suggest anything about Petraeus' involvement in this. Maybe he knew it was going on, and couldn't do much about it. Maybe he did do something about it. There is no evidence either way on that front.
I ask you to present evidence he did something about it. Otherwise I am going to call BS on that.
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

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Thanas wrote:
TheHammer wrote:You have evidence he intstitued it or swept it under the rug?
Asking the media to not run stories on it is pretty much sweeping it under the rug. Forming, commanding and selecting the commander of the forces who did it and keeping that commander despite protests is instituting or condoning it.
He didn't ask the media not to run stories on it. He asked that torture victims not be shown on TV. The reason why should be obvious.
Not showing men who had been tortured on TV was perfectly rational given the climate over there. His job was to work to end the sectarian violence, and parading tortured men on TV sure as hell wasn't going to do it.
Neither was condoning it or sweeping it under the rug. Protip - an action can be both covering something up and preventing sectarian violence. And if he wanted to end sectarian violence he did a heck of a job of that by promoting a guy others did not want because he caused sectarian violence.
Not wanting abused prisoners to be shown in TV is not evidence that it was either condoned or "swept under the rug". It was a common sense decision based on how Iraqis had reacted in the past to such images (violently).

I presume, when you talk about "promoting a guy others did not want because he caused sectarian violence" you are referring to the appointment of Jabr al-Solagh, aka Bayan Jabr. The problem with that is, I don't see how that would have been Petreus' decision to make at that time. As I understand it, he was an appointment of the democractically elected transitional Iraqi government (voted in by Iraqi's in January 2005), or at least it has been implied in numerous articles such as this one. I'm certainly not defending Bayan Jabr, but pinning his appointment on Petraeus is quite a stretch.
Quite frankly there is absolutely nothing in the article to suggest anything about Petraeus' involvement in this. Maybe he knew it was going on, and couldn't do much about it. Maybe he did do something about it. There is no evidence either way on that front.
I ask you to present evidence he did something about it. Otherwise I am going to call BS on that.
How can I present evidence he did something when i just explicitly stated that there was no evidence either way? There is nothing to call BS on.

You asserted a position that he "instituted" torture and later "swept it under the rug". Where is your evidence of that? It's certainly not in the article you posted.
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

How can I present evidence he did something when i just explicitly stated that there was no evidence either way? There is nothing to call BS on.
Burden of proof. If he did something about it, it was insufficient to actually stop the torture, and there are certain things he could have done, such as making sure punishment was metted out for those who committed torture. He did no such thing.

He could have ended the torture at any time, as I mentioned earlier, Iraq was not sovereign, because it had American troops all over it and was an occupied country. At best, a US client state. He did no such thing. If he wanted to end the torture, he would not have sent a message to stop parading torture victims in front of cameras. He would have sent another message entirely, with instructions to stop engaging in torture on pain of being taken out back and shot. The US advisors directly overseeing this, reported to directly to Patraeus.

As for the rug-sweeping... Did we find out about this particular torture program before Wikileaks dumped the information? No. No we did not. Indicating that it was swept under the rug. What? Do you think we just didn't find out about this for no apparent reason? No. The people in charge, the people with media access, and the people with direct personal contact with the US government and the Iraqi client government did not stop it. They did not tell anyone else outside their command chain and civilian superiors/contacts in the Iraqi client government. They did not blow the proverbial whistle in the event that they were told to do nothing by their superiors--because continuing to allow torture is an illegal order and a war crime in itself and no military officer is under an obligation to obey such an order. The exact opposite, they are obliged to NOT follow such an illegal order.

Therefore, even if ordered to do nothing, General Patraeus is guilty of sweeping this under the rug.
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Re: Petraeus linked to torture centers in Iraq

Post by Zanfib »

KlavoHunter wrote:Is there any high-ranking American officer who has not benefited from torture?
Better question: Is there any high-ranking American officer who has benefited from torture?

I know they have tolerated it and encouraged it, but have they actually benefited from it? Has it provided anything useful at all? I've yet to see any evidence that suggests it has.
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