Wikiweapon Project

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Irbis
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Wikiweapon Project

Post by Irbis »

Coming next to anywhere near you:
Our Plan

1) DEVELOP A FULLY PRINTABLE FIREARM

Defense Distributed is organized to produce and publish information related to the 3D printing of firearms. Beginning with little expertise and less financial backing, the group first believed this production would be a limited, trial and error process. Fortunately, in recent months our expertise and capabilities have been greatly supplemented, but the first order production goal remains the same: produce and publish a file for a completely printable gun- or as near to completely printable as actually possible with current technologies. You may have heard of printed rifle receivers and plastic Glock handguns, but this project imagines firearms only at their most essential: what printable configuration of geometries and materials will allow for the reliable and safe firing of a single round of ammunition?

2) ADAPT THE DESIGN DOWN TO CHEAPER 3D PRINTERS

These guns will be almost completely plastic, so melting and failing in your hand will be a concern. Only after a battery of testing the best designs to failure will we find the way to rate a WikiWep as safe for one use. This process may very well be the most difficult phase of our organization’s operations. There are many kinds of printers and many ways to test the same concepts. Also, we want to minimize negative media about the safety concerns of untested firearms and the inevitable suggestion that government agencies are necessary protect us from ourselves.

Provided candidate files and prototypes can make it through testing, the next phase of this goal requires adaptation of the design down to some of the most commonly available of 3D printers. Defense Distributed has chosen the RepRap printer to be this platform, despite the organization’s wishes to subvert and avoid such use. We hope the result will be an easily accessible and replicable design shared with the world. From such a point, any person has near-instant access to a firearm through the internet.

3) BECOME THE WEB’S PRINTABLE GUN WIKI REDOUBT

Insofar as possible, we hope to facilitate a printable firearm creative commons. Our weapons project’s namesake, a “wiki” is likely the best platform for preserving and collaboratively producing knowledge related to 3D printable firearms for years to come.
THE IMPACT

This project might change the way we think about gun control and consumption. How do governments behave if they must one day operate on the assumption that any and every citizen has near instant access to a firearm through the Internet? Let’s find out.
Video presentation.

Yes, as marked in bold in text, all-plastic gun would be most likely safe for one use. But what if someone published a design including a range of inconspicuous metal parts that can be bought in local hardware shop? Let's say everyone can make assault rifle good for 250 shots - in other words, garbage weapon, that would be still very useful in one-time terrorist attack. Or that say every criminal is now armed with cheap, disposable gun he can just burn after "job" 'just in case' - how would that change security thinking in modern Western country? Would we see new EURion constellation for 3D printers? Or will dilapidated cyberpunk cities become a reality? :wink:
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

Post by Stark »

When someone's stated goal is to bring gun violence to areas and people who are not affected by it, that's pretty funny. TAKE THAT, BIG GUBBA!
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

Post by Gandalf »

An all plastic gun that only gets one shot? What about the ammo?

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Re: Wikiweapon Project

Post by Irbis »

Making/obtaining ammunition is trivial compared to guns. It's not rocket science, if you want something that can just be fired into a crowd or used from close distance you can even make it yourself.

And yes, all plastic might be good for one shot, but addition of just 3-4 metal parts and you can make it last long enough. It's not like you need AK-47 reliability for one-time crime or Breivik-like attack.
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

Post by Gaidin »

Someone was bound to try once 3D printers were invented. Not necessarily shocking or bad, just changes things up on how things would have to be handled.
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

Post by Formless »

See, this is one of the reasons I posted this article. Most of the hangers on to this project that I've seen, especially the card carrying NRA wankers and talk radio hosts, seem to not understand the fundamental limitations of the printer technology that is being used here. Printing plastic and printing metal are two different things-- both are possible, but the latter is never going to be a DYI technology. Period. It is an industrial process, involving such things as either big ass furnaces or industrial strength electron lasers (and other similarly expensive machinery) to melt the damn stuff. At minimum, a gun needs a barrel/chamber and a firing pin made of metal (well, I suppose you could fire it electronically and thus need only a barrel, but good luck with that). Not just any metal tube necessarily makes a good gun barrel, either, since an accurate gun needs either rifling or a choke depending on whether its a rifle or a shotgun. And of course, this is just the gun. Ammo is another story; so its not going to have an effect in places where you need a license to own. The instant you buy ammo without a license you'll tip your hand.

But besides which, the whole point of this project is moot. Improvised and DYI firearms are already a thing, and have been for a very long time (see the sten submachinegun, for instance). In fact, its technically legal by US federal law so long as you follow certain guidelines and check your local laws first (this is how wildcat cartridges are invented, for instance). The guy doing this thinks he's making some kind of grand legal point (its unclear if he really cares so much about gun control as the printing technology itself), but in reality he's just making himself look like a naïf, and a political troll (mostly to people as ignorant as he is).
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

Post by Formless »

Irbis wrote:Making/obtaining ammunition is trivial compared to guns. It's not rocket science, if you want something that can just be fired into a crowd or used from close distance you can even make it yourself.

And yes, all plastic might be good for one shot, but addition of just 3-4 metal parts and you can make it last long enough. It's not like you need AK-47 reliability for one-time crime or Breivik-like attack.
We're talking about a gun that breaks after seven shots of fucking .22 long rifle. That's not exactly the stuff of nightmares.

Also, people who reload/handload still have to buy primer (aka, that stuff that sets off the powder when hit with a hammer). Those chemicals are pretty dangerous to work with, precisely because of their tendency to explode when struck. So making ammo from scratch is actually deceptively complicated.
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

Post by Beowulf »

7 .22LR rounds? a bit off. Their latest reciever design went up to 600 rounds of .223, and still was intact. That first version broke because they didn't take into account materials. The current version does.
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

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Irbis wrote: This project might change the way we think about gun control and consumption. How do governments behave if they must one day operate on the assumption that any and every citizen has near instant access to a firearm through the Internet? Let’s find out.
My guess would be that police will militarize heavily and tend to use absurdly overwhelming force during routine actions, antagonizing the populace and eventually turning the country into a place at war with itself, where routine traffic stops become potentially deadly, SWAT is called for simple searches and similar niceties.

I may be wrong, though.
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

Post by Gaidin »

PeZook wrote:
My guess would be that police will militarize heavily and tend to use absurdly overwhelming force during routine actions, antagonizing the populace and eventually turning the country into a place at war with itself, where routine traffic stops become potentially deadly, SWAT is called for simple searches and similar niceties.

I may be wrong, though.
They already have the outrageous potential to not know if the person they're stopping or whose house their searching will own a gun because lawmakers have abused gun registries before and gunowners will never trust them with that again. Adding modern muskets that can't be reloaded mostly because the odds of them firing a second time are so low as to be zero to the mix will change nothing about what the police know about their suspect regarding ownership of firearms given the sheer number of legally unregistered firearms in the country.
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

Post by MrDakka »

Formless wrote: Printing plastic and printing metal are two different things-- both are possible, but the latter is never going to be a DYI technology. Period. It is an industrial process, involving such things as either big ass furnaces or industrial strength electron lasers (and other similarly expensive machinery) to melt the damn stuff.
This is based on the metal powders being sintered together right?
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

Post by Formless »

MrDakka wrote:This is based on the metal powders being sintered together right?
Yes. Though you could have watched the video and found out that way.

This is an alternative process. Essentially you can melt the metal directly with a powerful laser or electron beam, or you can use glue and metal powder to make a sort of porous (but fragile) mold in a two step casting process.
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

Post by Beowulf »

Formless wrote:
MrDakka wrote:This is based on the metal powders being sintered together right?
Yes. Though you could have watched the video and found out that way.

This is an alternative process. Essentially you can melt the metal directly with a powerful laser or electron beam, or you can use glue and metal powder to make a sort of porous (but fragile) mold in a two step casting process.
A third process is to print in wax, and use that as a mold for lost wax casting.
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

PeZook wrote:
Irbis wrote: This project might change the way we think about gun control and consumption. How do governments behave if they must one day operate on the assumption that any and every citizen has near instant access to a firearm through the Internet? Let’s find out.
My guess would be that police will militarize heavily and tend to use absurdly overwhelming force during routine actions, antagonizing the populace and eventually turning the country into a place at war with itself, where routine traffic stops become potentially deadly, SWAT is called for simple searches and similar niceties.

I may be wrong, though.
I doubt it. There are over 300 million firearms in the US right now. Adding an additional method of obtaining a firearm won't change things much. It may add another box that is checked to determine when SWAT should be used. However, it won't cause departments to start using SWAT teams for routine operations such as typical searches and traffic stop.
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

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Kamakazie Sith wrote: I doubt it. There are over 300 million firearms in the US right now. Adding an additional method of obtaining a firearm won't change things much. It may add another box that is checked to determine when SWAT should be used. However, it won't cause departments to start using SWAT teams for routine operations such as typical searches and traffic stop.
I was taking the piss on the guy's glorification of firearms availability as...I don't know, some sort of positive empowering democratic...thing. Obviously police in the US ALREADY have this problem, and the result isn't anywhere as positive as he'd like it to be :P
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

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PeZook wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote: I doubt it. There are over 300 million firearms in the US right now. Adding an additional method of obtaining a firearm won't change things much. It may add another box that is checked to determine when SWAT should be used. However, it won't cause departments to start using SWAT teams for routine operations such as typical searches and traffic stop.
I was taking the piss on the guy's glorification of firearms availability as...I don't know, some sort of positive empowering democratic...thing. Obviously police in the US ALREADY have this problem, and the result isn't anywhere as positive as he'd like it to be :P
It's going to be a boon to the criminal element. I could see underground gun makers popping up like we have basement meth labs are so common here in America. Most criminal activities with a gun here in the US want a drop gun handy they can use for crimes and don't mind losing if they kill someone with it. After all if your a drug dealer working your corner in some metropolitan area and decided it'd be easier if one of your rivals ended up dead having a source of handy limited use guns without serial numbers of papers of any kind would be incredibly handy.

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Re: Wikiweapon Project

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PeZook wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote: I doubt it. There are over 300 million firearms in the US right now. Adding an additional method of obtaining a firearm won't change things much. It may add another box that is checked to determine when SWAT should be used. However, it won't cause departments to start using SWAT teams for routine operations such as typical searches and traffic stop.
I was taking the piss on the guy's glorification of firearms availability as...I don't know, some sort of positive empowering democratic...thing. Obviously police in the US ALREADY have this problem, and the result isn't anywhere as positive as he'd like it to be :P
Yeah, but that's less to do with the availability of guns, and more to do with the War on DrugsTerror.
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

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After all if your a drug dealer working your corner in some metropolitan area and decided it'd be easier if one of your rivals ended up dead having a source of handy limited use guns without serial numbers of papers of any kind would be incredibly handy.
Don't drug dealers already view such weapons as disposable already? That they always either sell or destroy/throw away the guns after use?
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

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Zixinus wrote:
Don't drug dealers already view such weapons as disposable already? That they always either sell or destroy/throw away the guns after use?
Depends on the territory but from what I've heard in and around DC and Detroit (The two areas where I know cops who work those types of areas) in DC criminals keep one gun to defend themselves which may or may not be fully registered (In Virgina) and legal with all the little extras and then one to six guns which are disposable as DC laws meant all such guns were illegal to begin with. Around Detroit any and all handguns are disposable and often not even kept in the houses of dealers but hidden nearby. It's so bad in some areas that city workers clearing abandon houses have special containers for and are trained in dealing with the guns they find hidden under skins or taped under porches in these houses.

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Re: Wikiweapon Project

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Formless wrote:At minimum, a gun needs a barrel/chamber and a firing pin made of metal.
Why?
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

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The only part of a gun which just has to be metal are the springs, if you use a semi automatic design. A gun made of plastic and ceramics is possible on paper, but you'd be accepting subsonic ammo and a short lifespan. Useful for an assassin maybe, but not even any real good for a drive by shooting. Pure plastic isn't likely. Plastic will be too soft for a firing pin, while electrical priming needs metal anyway. A plastic barrel and firing chamber is possible but it'd strip out very quickly. Custom ammo would greatly improve the situation, coat the bullet with polymer itself and its going to cause far less erosion.

As it is the AR lower wikigun made is a fairly low stress part of the weapon. Making a plastic bolt carrier would be immensely more difficult, and it isn't for nothing that the AR they did build is chambered for a medium power 5.7mm pistol cartridge.
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

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Sea Skimmer wrote:The only part of a gun which just has to be metal are the springs, if you use a semi automatic design. A gun made of plastic and ceramics is possible on paper, but you'd be accepting subsonic ammo and a short lifespan. Useful for an assassin maybe, but not even any real good for a drive by shooting. Pure plastic isn't likely. Plastic will be too soft for a firing pin, while electrical priming needs metal anyway. A plastic barrel and firing chamber is possible but it'd strip out very quickly. Custom ammo would greatly improve the situation, coat the bullet with polymer itself and its going to cause far less erosion.

As it is the AR lower wikigun made is a fairly low stress part of the weapon. Making a plastic bolt carrier would be immensely more difficult, and it isn't for nothing that the AR they did build is chambered for a medium power 5.7mm pistol cartridge.
Beowulf wrote:7 .22LR rounds? a bit off. Their latest reciever design went up to 600 rounds of .223, and still was intact. That first version broke because they didn't take into account materials. The current version does.
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

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Sea Skimmer wrote:The only part of a gun which just has to be metal are the springs, if you use a semi automatic design. A gun made of plastic and ceramics is possible on paper, but you'd be accepting subsonic ammo and a short lifespan. Useful for an assassin maybe, but not even any real good for a drive by shooting.
Couldn't be a lot worse than a converted BB gun or some clapped out First World War service revolver like most criminals have to make do with here in the UK.
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

Post by madd0ct0r »

result. oxidizer sale is monitored even more closely then it is already?
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Re: Wikiweapon Project

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http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Ni ... ete-Guide/ Are you going to restrict oxidizer precursors as well?
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