First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

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The Duchess of Zeon
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First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Associated Press
MOSCOW – Russia on Saturday banned 18 Americans from entering the country in response to Washington imposing sanctions on 18 Russians for alleged human rights violations.

The list released by the Foreign Ministry includes John Yoo, a former U.S. Justice Department official who wrote legal memos authorizing harsh interrogation techniques; David Addington, the chief of staff for former U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney; and two former commanders of the Guantanamo Bay detention center: retired Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller and Adm. Jeffrey Harbeson.

The move came a day after the U.S. announced its sanctions under the Magnitsky Law, named for Russian lawyer Sergei Magnitsky, who was arrested in 2008 for tax evasion after accusing Russian police officials of stealing $230 million in tax rebates. He died in prison the next year, allegedly after being beaten and denied medical treatment.

The U.S. State Department released a statement Saturday in response to Russia's latest decision.

"As we've said many times before, the right response by Russia to the international outcry over Sergey Magnitsky's death would be to conduct a proper investigation and hold those responsible for his death accountable, rather than engage in tit-for-tat retaliation," according to the statement.

Neither Washington nor Moscow put high-ranking or politically prominent figures on their lists, perhaps aiming to limit the effect on U.S.-Russian relations that have deteriorated, despite President Barack Obama's initiative to "reset" relations with Moscow.

The Magnitsky law infuriated Russian authorities, and parliament quickly passed a retaliatory measure than banned Americans from adopting Russian children. Russia also has banned U.S. funding for any non-governmental organization deemed to be engaging in politics.

"I think that both sides showed a definite restraint because in Washington and in Moscow there were hotheads demanding to inflate the list to an unthinkable size," parliament member Vyacheslav Nikonov, who focuses on foreign affairs, was quoted as saying by the news agency Interfax.

The ITAR-Tass news agency quoted Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov as saying there also is a "closed part" of the list of banned Americans and that the U.S. knows of its existence. The U.S. law in turn allows the administration to compile a separate classified list of Russian officials subject to visa bans.

The public U.S. list includes Artem Kuznetsov and Pavel Karpov, two Russian Interior Ministry officers who put Magnitsky behind bars after he accused them of stealing $230 million from the state. Two tax officials the lawyer accused of approving the fraudulent tax refunds, and several other Interior Ministry officials accused of persecuting Magnitsky, also were on the list. Absent were senior officials from Russian President Vladimir Putin's entourage whom some human rights advocates had hoped to see sanctioned.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said in a statement Saturday that the U.S. sanctions struck "a strong blow to bilateral relations and joint trust."

Also on Russia's list are 14 Americans whom Russia says violated the rights of Russians abroad. It does not give specifics of the alleged violations, but includes several current or former federal prosecutors in the case of Viktor Bout, the Russian arms merchant sentenced in 2012 to 25 years in prison for selling weapons to a U.S.-designated foreign terrorist group.

A federal judge, one FBI agent and four U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration agents also are on the list. Some of them were involved in the case of Konstantin Yaroshenko, a Russian pilot convicted for drug smuggling.

"It's important that the criteria on which the Russian list was composed differ fundamentally from the Americans'. On the Russian list, including the closed part, are people actually responsible for the legalization of torture and indefinite detention of prisoners in Guantanamo, for arrests and unjust sentences for our countrymen," Ryabkov was quoted as saying.
Link here.

Yes, the formal Russian retaliation for the Magnitsky act, though it included the agents and prosecutors and judges who went after Bout and Yaroshenko, most notably also involved naming 4 people -- two commanders of the base, John Yoo notorious for writing legal memos authorising torture, and Cheney's Chief of staff--who were involved in Gitmo. So the first international sanctions on the US for Gitmo have actually occurred, in perhaps the most ironic fashion imaginable.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by gigabytelord »

So when did our two governments figure out that the best way to solve an argument is to act like six year olds?

Oh wait that's a stupid question.

A better question would be to ask if there's even a difference between the two governments when it comes to human rights abuses, as best as I can tell the US generally doesn't condone them publicly but never the less it still partakes in some seriously brutal and inhuman acts.

Russia on the other hand is at best indifferent about them, and at worst publicly committing them to send a message. So what's the difference? Both government are guilty. Is this just another case of the pot calling the kettle black?
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by mr friendly guy »

Well the country which refuses to call out the other country when both do it, will be at a geopolitical disadvantage. So I see this as a logical tactic for countries to utilise as geopolitical one up man ship. Of course it would be better if they didn't commit human rights abuses in the first place, thus preventing another country using it against them.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Haruko »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:The Magnitsky law infuriated Russian authorities, and parliament quickly passed a retaliatory measure than banned Americans from adopting Russian children. Russia also has banned U.S. funding for any non-governmental organization deemed to be engaging in politics.
Now I fucking get it. I watched several reports on the adoption ban and was never told anything about the Magnitsky law, so had no idea what the angle was for these statesmen. That said, it's unfortunate that they brought orphans into the dispute.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Patroklos »

More like "punishing whatever random people we can can come up." It obviously had nothing to do with any real objections from Russia concerning Gitmo. They might as well have just picked 18 random Hollywood celebrities.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Darth Herobrine »

What human rights violations at Gitmo? Since when is treating illegal combatants better than normal criminals human rights violations?
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Aaron MkII »

:lol: You're cute, "an illegal combatant" is a criminal and should be treated as such under the Conventions.

Really the conditions of the camp and the treatment of the prisoners are all over the internet. But I suspect you don't actually care about any of that and its purely an idealogical response.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Flagg »

Darth Herobrine wrote:What human rights violations at Gitmo? Since when is treating illegal combatants better than normal criminals human rights violations?
I wasn't aware that we regularly waterboarded "normal criminals".
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Flagg »

Aaron MkII wrote::lol: You're cute, "an illegal combatant" is a criminal and should be treated as such under the Conventions.

Really the conditions of the camp and the treatment of the prisoners are all over the internet. But I suspect you don't actually care about any of that and its purely an idealogical response.
Not to mention over half the people there have been found to be totally innocent and were largely given to US forces for a bounty.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Aaron MkII »

Flagg wrote:
Aaron MkII wrote::lol: You're cute, "an illegal combatant" is a criminal and should be treated as such under the Conventions.

Really the conditions of the camp and the treatment of the prisoners are all over the internet. But I suspect you don't actually care about any of that and its purely an idealogical response.
Not to mention over half the people there have been found to be totally innocent and were largely given to US forces for a bounty.
Aye. Though I thought most of those guys had been released or pawned off on other countries.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Grandmaster Jogurt »

Flagg wrote:
Darth Herobrine wrote:What human rights violations at Gitmo? Since when is treating illegal combatants better than normal criminals human rights violations?
I wasn't aware that we regularly waterboarded "normal criminals".
Fox News commonly casts any money used in the regular upkeep of Guantanamo as extra money spent to "make terrorists comfortable", and from what I know it's still never admitted that America tortures. I'm guessing he's coming from that?
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Flagg »

Aaron MkII wrote:
Flagg wrote:
Aaron MkII wrote::lol: You're cute, "an illegal combatant" is a criminal and should be treated as such under the Conventions.

Really the conditions of the camp and the treatment of the prisoners are all over the internet. But I suspect you don't actually care about any of that and its purely an idealogical response.
Not to mention over half the people there have been found to be totally innocent and were largely given to US forces for a bounty.
Aye. Though I thought most of those guys had been released or pawned off on other countries.
Nope. I guess they have been there so long no one will take them.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Dr. Trainwreck »

Darth Herobrine wrote:What human rights violations at Gitmo? Since when is treating illegal combatants better than normal criminals human rights violations?
I thought of asking you how exactly conditions at Gitmo are better than these at normal prisons but, in between your posts and that your name begins with "Darth", I'm afraid that the answer will be bananas.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Aaron MkII »

Flagg wrote: Nope. I guess they have been there so long no one will take them.
My own government refused to try and repatriate Khadr for years, even though it is legally required to attempt it.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Darth Herobrine »

One, I didn't get my statement from Fox News.
Two, it's globalist liberals who send lawyers to Gitmo to get terrorists to claim that they were tortured.
Three, I ain't affiliated with America's polarized political mess.
Four, I've read--can't remember where though--that every detainee is provided a free Koran, which are only handled by gloved guards.
Five, my user-name is my Minecraft user-name and is used here 'cause it is totally bad-ass. :twisted:
Finally, I have seen nothing about large numbers of detainees being found innocent.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Aaron MkII »

Did ya bother to look?

Bonus points though, liberal conspiracy is....10 points
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Flagg »

Darth Herobrine wrote:One, I didn't get my statement from Fox News.
Two, it's globalist liberals who send lawyers to Gitmo to get terrorists to claim that they were tortured.
Three, I ain't affiliated with America's polarized political mess.
Four, I've read--can't remember where though--that every detainee is provided a free Koran, which are only handled by gloved guards.
Five, my user-name is my Minecraft user-name and is used here 'cause it is totally bad-ass. :twisted:
You're a former (or current) short bus rider aren't you?

Roughly half the people held at Gitmo are not terrorists, they are innocents that got scooped up by Afghan warlords and then sold to the US for a bounty and labeled as "combatants". Also, and this is hilarious and shows your xenophobic racist cuntery, prisoners in the US are provided with religious reading material for free.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Dr. Trainwreck »

Darth Herobrine wrote:One, I didn't get my statement from Fox News.
[...]
Three, I ain't affiliated with America's polarized political mess.
But the idiot also wrote:Two, it's globalist liberals who send lawyers to Gitmo to get terrorists to claim that they were tortured.
[...]
Four, I've read--can't remember where though--that every detainee is provided a free Koran, which are only handled by gloved guards.
I needn't grace this by more comments.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Keevan_Colton »

Criminals also get to have a day in court, and a definitive punishment for their crimes. They know when it will be over, can be visited by family and have the right of appeal against the charges. They also aren't subject to enhanced interrogation techniques and inhumane conditions (Joe Arpiao not withstanding)
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Darth Herobrine »

I did look, and Gitmo detainees are given trials...just not well publicized ones. As to the 'liberal conspiracy' comment, we know how anti-American Europeanist the Left is. :roll:

Also, WTF is a short bus rider? :?

P.S. I'm not xenophobic or racist. I know that race is meaningless and as for xenophobia, I'm simply not politically correct (see my signature)
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Aaron MkII »

He called you a "retard"

Shorter buses being normally used to transport school children with disabilities.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Darth Herobrine »

Retard? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm about as retarded as Einstein.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Darth Herobrine »

BTW, Gitmo personnel only have to obey international rules of war, not American judicial rules.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Flagg »

Darth Hairbrain wrote:Retard? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm about as retarded as Einstein.
You keep saying shit like this but you know nothing about anything. Maybe instead of telling us how smart you are you can shut the fuck up and stop showing us how smart you aren't. You're now known as Darth Hairbrain.
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Re: First International Punishment of the US for Gitmo.

Post by Darth Herobrine »

:banghead: Here's some support for me: Obama said he would close the Gitmo detention center. After assuming office, he did not. Likely reason: he discovered that nothing was going on there that warrant shutting it down.
Now, stop treating me like some Trektard.
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