WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

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WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Dalton »

A little bit of good news...

Bill for compulsory science fiction in West Virginia schools
A bill calling for science fiction to be made compulsory reading in schools has been proposed by a politician in West Virginia in order to "stimulate interest in the fields of math and science".

Ray Canterbury, a Republican delegate, is appealing to the West Virginia board of education to include science fiction novels on the middle school and high school curriculums. "The Legislature finds that promoting interest in and appreciation for the study of math and science among students is critical to preparing students to compete in the workforce and to assure the economic well being of the state and the nation," he writes in the pending bill.

"To stimulate interest in math and science among students in the public schools of this state, the State Board of Education shall prescribe minimum standards by which samples of grade-appropriate science fiction literature are integrated into the curriculum of existing reading, literature or other required courses for middle school and high school students."

"I'm not interested in fantasy novels about dragons," Canterbury told Blastr in a recent interview. "I'm primarily interested in things where advanced technology is a key component of the storyline, both in terms of the problems that it presents and the solutions that it offers."

A fan of Isaac Asimov and Jules Verne, Canterbury believes that "one of the things about science fiction is that it gives you this perspective that as long as you have an imagination and it's grounded in some sort of practical knowledge, you can do anything you wanted to".

"In Southern West Virginia, there's a bit of a Calvinistic attitude toward life – this is how things are and they'll never be any different," he said. "[Science fiction] serves as a kind of antidote to that fatalistic kind of thinking."

Scientist and award-winning science fiction author David Brin, who has long fought for the educational value of the genre to be recognised, said it was "wonderful to live in a country where politicians can raise this possibility".

James Gunn, author, critic and a "grand master" of science fiction, agreed that "classrooms should expose more students to science fiction", and said that Canterbury's plan "sounds like an enlightened idea".

"As long ago as Future Shock, Alvin Toffler was calling for exposing young people to science fiction as 'a sovereign prophylactic' against 'the premature arrival of the future'. Today in an even more rapidly changing world, it is even more important for Toffler's purpose but also for making the kinds of informed decisions about present issues that will lead to better futures," said Gunn, who is founder of the Centre for the Study of Science Fiction at Kansas University.

"Because science fiction incorporates the one thing that is undeniably true in today's fiction – that the world is changing – it has the capability of shaping that change as well as adjusting to it. As I say in my signature motto, 'Let's save the world through science fiction.'

"Science fiction has the capability, at its best, of exercising the rational portions of the brain. You have to think to read it. And what the world needs now is people who can think better and more clearly and make good choices."

Brin, author of The Postman, has suggested a range of titles which might be useful in schools in the past, from "books that explore the edges of tolerance, like those of Octavia Butler and Alice Sheldon (James Tiptree, Jr)" to "books that ponder biological destiny, penned by Greg Bear and Joan Slonczewski", and "those by Robert A Heinlein, Arthur C Clarke, and Ray Bradbury that instruct almost invisibly, because the authors were teachers at heart".

He told the Guardian that he "approve wholeheartedly" of Canterbury's plans – "though with a cavil – that 90% of the most recent wave of 'science fiction' tales appear to have been either gloomy dystopias or else fantasy tales wallowing in dreamy yearnings for a beastly way of life called feudalism".

"Some of the best science fiction deals with gloomy or dire topics, and often without happy endings. But always implicit in the best tales is the possibility that human beings might do better. That is why Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four and Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 … qualify as 'self-preventing prophecies', having girded millions to help make their dark scenarios never happen. My own The Postman was an attempt at that territory," said Brin.

"But it is science fiction that offers hope for a better world that does the most good, in the long run. Star Trek did this, while confronting one after another potential pitfall or roadblock that might confront us along the way," said the author, also pointing to the authors Vernor Vinge, Neal Stephenson, Kim Stanley Robinson and Nancy Kress.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Zaune »

And why not?

EDIT: On second thoughts, looking back, I can't think of very many authors I studied in GCSE English Literature who I'd ever wish to read again ever.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I'm feeling approval of a Republican politician. Its a strange feeling.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by DieselJester »

*shrug* not all Republicans are bad I guess. It's about time. I always though it was really bleeding boring back in middle and high school to have all those reading lists on what we could choose to read over a semester (and subsequently do book reports on them) and hardly any one of them were ever science fiction. (I think that the closest they ever got was Brave New World, but that's pushing the definition in my opition).
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Simon_Jester »

Brave New World was SF when it was written; nowadays we could practically duplicate all the components of that society if we really wanted to- the hardest part would be separating out a population of Alphas.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

yeah, but someone will mess it up and all we will get is the Libertarian screeds of Heinline. <jk>
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Dalton »

Bear makes a great point...could this be some obfuscated way of getting Ayn Rand books declared mandatory in official school curricula?
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Is there anything related to his technology statement in Rand's books?
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Dalton »

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Is there anything related to his technology statement in Rand's books?
Doesn't really have to be. I think Atlas Shrugged is classified as sci-fi.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Losonti Tokash »

There's a few things, but the one that's most obvious to me would be the guy who invents a free energy generator.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by PhilosopherOfSorts »

Dalton wrote:Bear makes a great point...could this be some obfuscated way of getting Ayn Rand books declared mandatory in official school curricula?

Not to be disrespectful, Dalton, but that sounds pretty tin-foil-hattish.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Dalton »

PhilosopherOfSorts wrote:
Dalton wrote:Bear makes a great point...could this be some obfuscated way of getting Ayn Rand books declared mandatory in official school curricula?
Not to be disrespectful, Dalton, but that sounds pretty tin-foil-hattish.
Yeah, I know. It's kind of a moonbat thought but I do get suspicious whenever a Republican suggests a pro-science initiative.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Flagg »

Well considering their track record with shit like TRAP laws and voter ID I wouldn't put it past them, honestly.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Simon_Jester »

I wouldn't put it past them either, but the same people who thought of it might seriously want other SF to be read in the schools too. It's not like Randists have no other interests, or like West Virginia can't tell its curriculum-writers to put Fountainhead or whatever into the curriculum without bothering to mandate any SF.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Stark »

Most scifi doesn't even have science or technology as a 'key component' of the storyline; that's a pretty specific request.

A generation of people being forced to read Neal Stephenson novels is probably not going to 'encourage an interest in maths and science' anyway; unless there feeling is that there are a population of people who'd love to do maths courses if only there was a really pretentious novel explaining why it's fully choice bro. Its an odd choice for a policy to shift American attitudes back to respect for science.

Of course in Australia such an idea would never work, because odds are the students involved couldn't even read the fucking book. :lol:
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Sea Skimmer »

This seems like an idea better suited to summer reading lists then in class curriculum.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Stark »

Choosing books to expose to kids (whether its class readings, book sales, suggested reading, etc) seems like a ridiculously political thing.

Maybe if people made technology-focused stories that weren't full of normal-person rejecting roadblocks, scifi would be more generally popular. I don't think that the useful content (ie creating respect and value for maths and science in a technological and industrial society) is actually related to the stuff that pulls people out like forehead aliens and bad characters. You don't need clumsy narratives with huge infodumps to make kids dream about space colonies and nanomachines and genetic engineering, just like you didn't need those things to sell forensic science to a generation.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Stark wrote:Choosing books to expose to kids (whether its class readings, book sales, suggested reading, etc) seems like a ridiculously political thing.

Maybe if people made technology-focused stories that weren't full of normal-person rejecting roadblocks, scifi would be more generally popular. I don't think that the useful content (ie creating respect and value for maths and science in a technological and industrial society) is actually related to the stuff that pulls people out like forehead aliens and bad characters. You don't need clumsy narratives with huge infodumps to make kids dream about space colonies and nanomachines and genetic engineering, just like you didn't need those things to sell forensic science to a generation.
But Stark, CSI!

I would prefer people read more ideas based SF literature, than think of Star Wars or Star Trek or... Defiance, when they think SF. More 2001 and less Buck Rogers in the mix, since the popular SF on TV is more likely the latter than the more nuanced, cerebral stuff you find in films like Gattaca or books like Blindsight.

I find it hilarious watching the shows that wouldn't be classes as SF that are basically just that because, hey, we can run a PCR or GC sample assay at the Miami Dade forensics labs in under an hour and with perfect accuracy right now. And that kind of thing is insidious, because it seems plausible to people who don't know better to the point where I've heard people ask "Why would anyone commit crime now?" when they see an episode of CSI or NCIS.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Stark »

Thats it - those shows created expectations and ideas and glamour around a whole field (a field in reality amazingly boring I imagine) by being actual stories people might enjoy along with a side-helping of SCIENCE SOUNDING STUFFS. And not the extremely insular style of science fiction which sometimes appears to actively attempt to reject normal people to cater for the target audience.

Really, fucking Macgyver was about science and reinforced the idea that knowing how shit works and understanding things is important and powerful, and that show had a huge mullet in it. I can see a few books on my wall that are just typical stories with scifi trappings that are accessible to normal people, but don't have that impact of 'science is good' thing going on. In short I think stuff like Neal ugh Stephenson is preaching to the choir and thus useless for this role - people who don't already value science will just throw it away as a pile of almost meaningless rubbish. If you want to use fiction in this way you'd want to find or create fiction that contains the kernel you want to deliver but isn't endless reams of pretentious gasbagging. Maybe even have some characters who do things people might relate to.

Or y'know just institute a Gundam class in primary school. Excuse me Mr Walsh, why does Princess Mineva fall so slowly from the core of the colony? Well Tina, that's because the angular velocity is slower there. WHATS ANGULAR VELOCITY?!?
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Simon_Jester »

The real trick is going to be finding the right books. You can't ask a typical SF fan. Some of the books labeled as classics in science fiction are pretty unapproachable, or undesirable except to people who would naturally become fans of the genre.

Personally I'd recommend Chris Anvil, but that's probably just because he makes me laugh.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Now I think about it, Gundam probably is the best way. It's TV, so none of that "Read a book? WHEV!" kiddy rebellion, and it has action. Giant robot action, and there's no way to improve on that without some form of dinosaur being involved. They try and keep hard science in where possible, with occasional fluff explaining away how we get to the giant robits being viable, but hey, what SF doesn't have a MacGuffin somewhere along the lines?

And it's pretty depressing to think a cartoon series from the same country that gave us Yu-Gi-Oh can have a better time of educating pacifism, social equality and science/technology than 99% of adult TV in the West.

Get them hooked on that, they may very well read some of the SF classics and move on to more like that of a contemporary origin.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Stark »

Simon_Jester wrote:The real trick is going to be finding the right books. You can't ask a typical SF fan. Some of the books labeled as classics in science fiction are pretty unapproachable, or undesirable except to people who would naturally become fans of the genre.

Personally I'd recommend Chris Anvil, but that's probably just because he makes me laugh.
This is really the core of it. If you ask a 'scifi person' what books can sell scifi to normal people or children or the less educated, you'll just get a list of scifi that person likes (like in the article where Brin recommends fucking Neal Wall of Nonsense Stephenson in a discussion about school children). Its the accessibility that is lacking in modern scifi, and something like sciencey Harry Potter or sciency Twilight or other mass market thing is what you need. Something anyone can read or enjoy whilst also being exposed to the ideas you want to encourage.

Realisitically I don't think Gundam is science enough; its largely background and while totally awesome probably wouldn't grab a kids' attention the way a show like Macgyver did with stuff like 'hey how did he know that this would work' or 'is he a licenced electrician or something wow'. Then again, common scifi shows like Star Trek have very little foreground science that isn't total bullshit, so maybe.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Connor MacLeod »

This would be a good idea in theory, because science fiction might be something that would 'interest' kids in science.

The problem is science fiction isn't nearly as specialized as he thinks, and alot of the stuff he talks about is very very niche (we're literally talking HARD SCI FI) which isn't going to be even remotely like Verne, Asimov or anyhting often considered 'soft' (not that such meanings mean much :P) I dont think Asimovian Atomics or positronic robots are in the cards anytime soon. And I dont think it would interest everyone even if it did.

I think the mentioned works are particularily odd in that many of Asimov's stories don't really deal with tech directly.. the technology (like in Asimov's robot novels) is largely an artifice to drive the plot and the discussion of ideas, and that wouldnt have much to do with 'science'.

Admittedly the first thing I thought of when reading this was the Baen Libraries (and their right wing agendas) being crammed into schools, so Dalton isn't the only tinfoil hatter here :P
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Stark »

All kinds of scifi is packed with right-wing, authoritarian, violent, and reactionary plots and characters. This is why I'd rather see kids reading, I dunno, the fucking Tripods or something than Honor Harrington for what little 'educational' value they might have.
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Re: WV GOP state delegate proposes compulsory SF for schools

Post by Gaidin »

I got stuck reading something like ten books in my AP American English Literature course in high school. For all I know this could've made one of them a Frank Herbert book instead of Henry James. Who knows.

And there are more possibilities for the non-American courses.
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