Illegals in CA can now get driver's licenses

[Borgholio]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-576 ... mmigrants/

I'm...absolutely disgusted by this. I've always been liberal-leaning but this goes too far. I need to get out of this fucking state.

What the fuck were they smoking when they came up with these "ideas" why a license was a good idea? Making the roads safer? Legal resident drivers are already morons behind the wheel, a card doesn't make them any safer so why should it help illegals drive safer? Make it so illegals won't be afraid of having their car impounded or being deported? Who gives a shit? They're fucking criminals, they SHOULD be afraid.

Prohibiting people from refusing service to those who have these new licenses? Prohibiting law enforcement from taking action when someone hands them a card that practically screams "I'm illegal and shouldn't be here"? Really?

This whole thing fucking pisses me off. What's worse is that I come off as a fucking racist or anti-immigrant white slob when I talk about this subject.

All I ask is that if you come to our country, obey the law. But now our own government is saying "It's ok to break the law. Here, have a driver's license."

Unbelievable.

[Knife]

I was under the impression that it was so they could get insurance, so when (lets be honest here, with the sheer amounts of undocumented workers in the USA, there will be accidents with them with property damage and injuries) accidents happen, people can get compensation and medical care.

[Borgholio]

That's one of the reasons they give, but honestly I would not expect people who are criminals simply by existing here to magically start obeying the law all of a sudden. In other words, how many of them are going to run right out and buy auto insurance? I'd expect not many.

[Knife]

Criminals?

Look, I don't think our immigration policies are wonderful or anything, but the majority of the people coming here illegally are just here for jobs. They are not here to steal our money, take our children, and snatch our freedom. But they are here, so the more we treat them as some sort of underclass, unmentionables, the worse it will become. Letting them have access to insurance will only benefit the rest of us when one of them eventually gets in a car wreck and hurts you or your property. Having a drivers license isn't a pat on the back or a reward for doing evil. Yeesh.

[Zaune]

There's breaking a law that very few people really want to enforce anyway because you haven't got any better options and there's breaking laws that actually make sense.

[Agent Fisher]

Why would they bother getting insurance? They've been driving around this long without insurance and no one's deported them over it, why would they bother to go pay hundreds of dollars for it now?

[Knife]

The same reason we do it, to protect our shit.

[Losonti Tokash]

What's worse is that I come off as a fucking racist or anti-immigrant white slob when I talk about this subject.

Yeah I can see how it could be frustrating when people misinterpret what you're saying and

Make it so illegals won't be afraid of having their car impounded or being deported? Who gives a shit? They're fucking criminals, they SHOULD be afraid.

[Borgholio]

Criminals?

Look, I don't think our immigration policies are wonderful or anything, but the majority of the people coming here illegally are just here for jobs. They are not here to steal our money, take our children, and snatch our freedom. But they are here, so the more we treat them as some sort of underclass, unmentionables, the worse it will become. Letting them have access to insurance will only benefit the rest of us when one of them eventually gets in a car wreck and hurts you or your property. Having a drivers license isn't a pat on the back or a reward for doing evil. Yeesh.

I'm not saying they're here to do anything evil. I agree, most of them are just here to earn a living. Many of them, the only crime they are guilty of is an immigration violation. But that does not change the fact that IT IS A CRIME. And one who commits a crime IS A CRIMINAL. It's as simple as that. I'm not saying we treat them like shit. I agree, we should not treat them like an underclass or discriminate against them racially...but we should not do them any favors as long as they are in violation of the law. We should not make it easy for them to drive a car, get insurance, or anything of that sort. They need to know that there are penalties if they don't apply for resident status.

If this law made it so a vast majority of illegals could get insurance, then I might be somewhat more supportive. Having fewer uninsured drivers on the road is a good thing. But is that actually going to happen? I seriously doubt it. Maybe a token number of illegals will buy insurance...not enough to make a difference.

[Borgholio]

What's worse is that I come off as a fucking racist or anti-immigrant white slob when I talk about this subject.

Yeah I can see how it could be frustrating when people misinterpret what you're saying and

Make it so illegals won't be afraid of having their car impounded or being deported? Who gives a shit? They're fucking criminals, they SHOULD be afraid.

Perhaps it's partly my fault, but I find I get extremely agitated over this subject. I feel that if you're guilty of an immigration violation, everything else that happens here should hinge on that. Buying a house, a car, getting a loan, an education, etc...if you're not here legally, you should not be able to "expect" to get any of those things easily. Give them basic medical care if they get injured, help from law enforcement if they're victims of crime, legal protection against hate crimes and civil rights violations...and that's about all.

[NoXion]

Are criminals normally forbidden from acquiring driver's licences in the US, if the offense in question has nothing to do with driving? If not, then there's no reason I can see (apart from spite) for forbidding them from getting a license. Indeed, considering how car-centric the US is, denying them licenses makes illegal immigrants more likely to break the law.

[Borgholio]

That's...a good point. I guess when you put it that way you can't simply deny them a license just based on their criminal history. With most other criminals, however, they are still allowed to be in the country legally. I think being guilty of a crime where you aren't even supposed to be here is a bit different in that regard.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Utah started a similar program several years ago. It is called a driver privilege license. Audits show that roughly 70% of those with these cards have insurance. So, I'd say that is a significant and worthwhile improvement over them driving anyway but with no insurance.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Are criminals normally forbidden from acquiring driver's licences in the US, if the offense in question has nothing to do with driving? If not, then there's no reason I can see (apart from spite) for forbidding them from getting a license. Indeed, considering how car-centric the US is, denying them licenses makes illegal immigrants more likely to break the law.

If a warrant exists for their arrest then their license will be suspended but other than alcohol/drug related offenses or excessive traffic infractions having a criminal history will not prohibit you from having a license.

[Borgholio]

Utah started a similar program several years ago. It is called a driver privilege license. Audits show that roughly 70% of those with these cards have insurance. So, I'd say that is a significant and worthwhile improvement over them driving anyway but with no insurance.

Hmm...if the numbers are similar to that in CA, then I may have to change my position on the subject. Having that many more people insured on the road is definitely a good thing.

We'll have to wait and see, I guess.

[Gaidin]

Does the CA driver's licenses extend you other identification privileges still or have those been revoked?

[Zwinmar]

My problem is the whole bullshit policy on immigration. It should be easy to get citizenship, not the way we went with building a wall so people are funneled into a desert environment and die. I do realize that will not happen because of the business' that make money off of hiring workers they can use as, what is in effect, slave labor.

[Borgholio]

Does the CA driver's licenses extend you other identification privileges still or have those been revoked?

For legal residents, the license IS a legit form of ID. For illegals, it is not.

[NoXion]

That's...a good point. I guess when you put it that way you can't simply deny them a license just based on their criminal history. With most other criminals, however, they are still allowed to be in the country legally. I think being guilty of a crime where you aren't even supposed to be here is a bit different in that regard.

Denying them driver's licenses isn't going to expedite their exit from the country (didn't stop them before), and effectively increases the number of uninsured drivers on the road. Again I ask, what possible function other than spite would be served?

[Borgholio]

My problem is the whole bullshit policy on immigration. It should be easy to get citizenship, not the way we went with building a wall so people are funneled into a desert environment and die. I do realize that will not happen because of the business' that make money off of hiring workers they can use as, what is in effect, slave labor.

Ideally it would be easy and inexpensive to immigrate here, and easy to deport if there was any wrongdoing. Right now it's a clusterfuck with it being literally life and death to get here, and people not even wanting to enforce the laws that are on the books or reform them to something more reasonable.

[Borgholio]

That's...a good point. I guess when you put it that way you can't simply deny them a license just based on their criminal history. With most other criminals, however, they are still allowed to be in the country legally. I think being guilty of a crime where you aren't even supposed to be here is a bit different in that regard.

Denying them driver's licenses isn't going to expedite their exit from the country (didn't stop them before), and effectively increases the number of uninsured drivers on the road. Again I ask, what possible function other than spite would be served?

It's not spite, it's the principle of the thing. If someone trespasses on my property, I have every right to kick them off. If someone demands that I clothe and feed the trespasser and I refuse, that's not out of spite. It's a response to the fact that the trespasser has no right to be on my property anyways, so why should I give him anything except the boot?

With illegals naturally it's more complicated than that, but the focus should be on immigration law enforcement and / or reform...not making life easier for them while leaving their current criminal status unresolved. We should be trying to fix the overall problem with illegal immigration instead of trying to give political blow-jobs to pro-immigrant groups and give licenses to these people.

[Losonti Tokash]

You're right, there are no negative consequences to forcing people to live outside the law and maintain a permanent underclass of easily exploitable human beings. Maybe I'm just sensitive because many of "these people" are my friends and relatives, but you could lighten up the rhetoric a bit and stop calling people ridiculous things like "illegals."

[Borgholio]

I'm sorry, I don't see how we're forcing them to live outside the law. Did we force them to jump the border without papers? Are we forcing them to stay here? I agree that they're easily exploited and that's bad, but they're not slaves. They're free to leave if they wish. But they choose to stay here and work, without going through the motions of becoming a legal resident. I have a problem with that. If we force them to do anything, we must force them to obey the law of the land or they can leave, it's their choice. And if they choose to disobey the law, then I choose to call them illegals. I will not censor myself and rename the problem just because your friends and relatives are offended. I don't mean to insult, but they have no right to be offended if I call them out for (accurately) breaking the law.

[Losonti Tokash]

So you're not actually concerned with solving any problems, you just want to see the bad people punished. Good for you.

PS no one is illegal. They're human beings. Attitudes like yours are why people go and destroy water caches or tear families apart.

[Losonti Tokash]

Friend of mine was brought here as a child and didn't understand she wasn't here legitimately until years later, but it's totally her own fault and the country's best interest is definitely served by preventing someone who grew up here from getting a license or education because of something her parents did.

Edit: my uncle came here in the 80s and was granted amnesty. He's now a citizen and rancher, with a son in the army and another in medical school. Imagine how much better the country would be if he'd been deported or stuck as a day laborer for thirty years.