If there is one thing that is a fact, it is that fecal matter is everywhere . . . .
I would argue that Holy Water might be more dangerous potentially more dangerous than many other health practices that are cracked down on because of the exposure of infants to it.
Holy Water May be Harmful to Your Health, Study Finds
Sept. 14, 2013
By LIZ FIELDS
Despite its purported cleansing properties, holy water could actually be more harmful than healing, according to a new Austrian study on "holy" springs.
Researchers at the Institute of Hygiene and Applied Immunology at the Medical University of Vienna tested water from 21 springs in Austria and 18 fonts in Vienna and found samples contained up to 62 million bacteria per milliliter of water, none of it safe to drink.
Tests indicated 86 percent of the holy water, commonly used in baptism ceremonies and to wet congregants' lips, was infected with common bacteria found in fecal matter such as E. coli, enterococci and Campylobacter, which can lead to diarrhea, cramping, abdominal pain, and fever.
Nitrates, commonly found in fertilizer from farms, were also identified in the water. If ingested, water containing nitrates over the maximum contaminant level could cause serious illness, especially in infants younger than 6 months, which could lead to death if untreated, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
"We need to warn people against drinking from these sources," said Dr Alexander Kirschner, study researcher and microbiologist at the Medical University of Vienna.
The study, published in the Journal of Water and Health, also found that all church and hospital chapel fonts contained bacteria -- the busier the church, the higher the bacterial count.
"This may represent a problem that has hitherto been underestimated, especially in hospitals, since there a lot of people with weakened immune systems there," Kirschner said.
There have been advances made for the more hygienic use of holy water, including the invention of a holy water dispenser a few years ago by an Italian priest, while studies have also indicated that adding salt (at recommended levels of 20 percent) can help disinfect the water.
But Kirschner cautions that salt is not a reliable way to prevent infection and instead recommends priests regularly change the holy water in churches and erect signs to inform congregants about the dangers as well as of the history of the holy springs.
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
They don't just get it from the tap and say some words over it?
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
Napoleon the Clown wrote:Some sources are more magical than others, I guess. They may also recycle holy water in some manner. Dunno.
Read on a Catholic discussion forum that they save it from Easter in some cases
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
Zaune wrote:They don't just get it from the tap and say some words over it?
Doesn't really matter when just about every asshole that crosses the threshold of the church is dipping their unwashed fingers in the holy water font. Maybe they should try putting a bottle of hand sanitizer next to the holy water font and redo their experiment?
Goddammit, now I'm forced to say in public that I agree with Mr. Coffee. - Mike Wong
I never would have thought I would wholeheartedly agree with Coffee... - fgalkin x2
Honestly, this board is so fucking stupid at times. - Thanas GALEForceCarwash: Oh, I'll wax that shit, bitch...
I begin to understand why the only church I've ever been in with any regularity had a lid on theirs that was secured with a padlock.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
I have to admit that worrying about the possible unsanctioned use of holy water does sound very C of E.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
Yeah yeah I was raised Catholic, we just used to flick it at eachother when we walked into mass, supposedly the water is a symbol of blessing because it has been specially consecrated, but obviously, as the Church is clear that there is no such thing as magic, and even the Saints have no special powers, and ALL flows through God, it's really just a ritual to spray yourself with water. Baptism or shaking the thing at Easter was always more of a symbolic community recognition thing, like saying the pledge of allegiance.
But I vaguely remember being told NEVER to drink it because the ashes of cremated palms were mixed in as part of the special formula, plus it sits in a bowl all week out in the open. There IS a special set of pipes to dispose of it with, which goes straight to the ground so the holy water doesn't accidently consecrate the poo.
"Since when is "the west" a nation?"-Styphon "ACORN= Cobra obviously." AMT
This topic is... oh Village Idiot. Carry on then.--Havok
Zaune wrote:They don't just get it from the tap and say some words over it?
Doesn't really matter when just about every asshole that crosses the threshold of the church is dipping their unwashed fingers in the holy water font. Maybe they should try putting a bottle of hand sanitizer next to the holy water font and redo their experiment?
That's why I long ago gave up that particular ritual, offering the Sign of Peace to non-immediate family members, and never took communion wine. Though to their credit, the church where I go has had giant hand sanitizer pumps located near the entrances for several years now at least.
In honesty, they believe it heals.
That will vary greatly between individuals. Church doctrine and teaching, and what the congregants actually believe vary.
That will vary greatly between individuals. Church doctrine and teaching, and what the congregants actually believe vary.
What I specifically mean is that those that drink it, sip it, or just put it on their lips believe that it heals.
I don't mean every Catholic in the universe .
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
Fair enough, it can be hard to tell with SDN at times. I do wander if this could also in part be a regional thing. What Themightytom mentioned that I quoted below certainly rings true from sometime during my catechism years.
But I vaguely remember being told NEVER to drink it because the ashes of cremated palms were mixed in as part of the special formula, plus it sits in a bowl all week out in the open. There IS a special set of pipes to dispose of it with, which goes straight to the ground so the holy water doesn't accidently consecrate the poo.
I will add that if the water is used for any ceremonies, even using hand sanitizer, it is almost a fact that stored water will get bacteria in it.
It really would be best if they only use the water once.
Every baptism (and anything else involving the water), they really should scrub and sanitize the font, fill with water, do your blessings, dump the water, and again sanitize and scrub the font.
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
Sanitising it might be a bit much, if only because overuse of antiseptic cleaning chemicals isn't much better than overuse of antibiotics. (Much as aspects of that discussion might make the clergy uncomfortable...) Especially if the water is chlorinated.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
Hardly a problem limited to Christianity. Take a look at the Ganges some time. Sorry folks, the Magic Holy River isn't able to detoxify all those half-cremated corpses and cow shit and whatever else winds up in, yet people bath in it daily. And drink it.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
This reminds me of an old joke about a priest calling three nuns into his office to confess their sins. He tells the first two to take a drink from some holy water after confessing while the third nun is giggling the whole time. When he asks what sin she committed, she tells him she peed in the holy water.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
Zaune wrote:Sanitising it might be a bit much, if only because overuse of antiseptic cleaning chemicals isn't much better than overuse of antibiotics. (Much as aspects of that discussion might make the clergy uncomfortable...) Especially if the water is chlorinated.
I just mean use chlorinated cleaner. . . .
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
Kitsune wrote:I will add that if the water is used for any ceremonies, even using hand sanitizer, it is almost a fact that stored water will get bacteria in it.
It really would be best if they only use the water once.
Every baptism (and anything else involving the water), they really should scrub and sanitize the font, fill with water, do your blessings, dump the water, and again sanitize and scrub the font.
Agreed.
I just mean use chlorinated cleaner. . . .
You might have to vary the cleaning method based on material. I've seen fonts made from everything from stone, to bronze/brass, to ceramics; to say nothing of the other containers used to hold/store it. I can't say how different materials would react to a chlorinated cleaner, but the last thing you want to do is accidentally damage something lest you potentially turn off people to the idea of better hygiene. It can be hard enough getting older people, and even quite a few young people, to follow basic hygiene as it is without having extra perceived negatives in addition to the slight time increase.
Fine. . .Just have read that there are a few cleaners that there are not big concerns about diseases getting resistant to
Hand cleaners are largely alcohol and not much concern with them for example either.
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
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