Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

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wautd
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Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

Post by wautd »

Two news items I saw in the last couple of days:
Saudi preacher jailed over daughter's death

A Saudi preacher accused of torturing his five-year-old daughter and beating her to death has been sentenced to eight years in prison and 600 lashes.

The case of Fayhan al-Ghamdi made headlines around the world earlier this year when it was suggested that a Saudi court might let him walk free.

Activists began a campaign named after his daughter, "I am Lama", to press the authorities to prevent that happening.

Al-Ghamdi is not recognised as a cleric by the Saudi religious establishment.

Child abuse helpline

The horrific details of the abuse that Lama al-Ghamdi suffered were revealed in medical records from the hospital where she was treated for 10 months before she died.

Her ribs were broken, a fingernail was torn off and her skull crushed. She had been beaten with a cane and electric cables. She had also suffered burns.

The abuse had happened while she was with her father, who was separated from her mother.

It was reported that al-Ghamdi had suspected his daughter of losing her virginity and had beaten her and molested her in response.

It was even suggested that he had raped her himself, although this was denied by Lama's mother.

The outrage over the case intensified earlier this year when activists suggested that he might walk free, despite having confessed to having beaten Lama.

The judge in the case suggested that one reading of Islamic law meant a father could not be held fully accountable for the death of his children.

Activists warned that it looked like he might be released if the mother accepted blood money.

The story grabbed headlines across the world.

It shone a light on child abuse in Saudi Arabia where rights activists say strict codes of family privacy and a patriarchal tradition make it a serious problem.

The Saudi authorities set up a child abuse helpline in response.

Now, a verdict has been reached in the same court and with the same judge.

One of the activists involved in the campaign, Aziz al-Yousef, told the BBC that she was disappointed that Fayhan al-Ghamdi did not receive a life sentence.

But Lama's mother had in the end accepted the offer of blood money, despite having once said she would never take it.

She said she needed it to help support her surviving children. That ruled out a life sentence.

Another campaigner who fought for a longer sentence, Manal al-Sharif, told the BBC that she did not believe the penalty was enough.

But she does feel that the I am Lama campaign - with the international pressure it brought to bear on the authorities - was instrumental in leading to the recent introduction of an unprecedented new Saudi law against domestic violence.

However, she added that she still has deep reservations over how effectively this will be enforced in practice.
To put things into perspective:
4 Saudi men accused of dancing naked sentenced to prison, lashes

(CNN) -- Four Saudi men accused of dancing naked on the roof of a car and posting a video of the incident online have been sentenced to as many as 2,000 lashes and up to 10 years in prison, and fined thousands of dollars, a newspaper reported this week.

A criminal court in Buraidah, Saudi Arabia, handed down the verdict on Wednesday, according to the newspaper al-Sharq.

Three of the men were sentenced to three to seven years in prison and 500 to 1,200 lashes, and one man received the harshest sentence -- 10 years and 2,000 lashes.

The fines came to 50,000 Saudi riyals ($13,000), the newspaper reported.

The car they danced on was confiscated, al-Sharq reported, adding that the video of the incident has been removed.

Two of the men were "security men, who were supposed to preserve the security of this country and the values and traditions of Islam," the newspaper said.
There you have it:
Dancing naked: 2000 lashes and 10 years of prison
Raping and torturing your 5-year old daughter to death: 600 lashes and 8 years of prison* (not witstanding he almost walked free if the case didn't hit the media), which is a slightly worse sentence you'd get for criticizing Islam

Medieval justice Sharia .. :roll:
Last edited by wautd on 2013-10-09 10:58am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

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Our friends and allies, everyone.
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Re: Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

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I might be cynical but I wonder what sentence this monster would have gotten if it was a boy.
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Re: Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

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It was reported that al-Ghamdi had suspected his daughter of losing her virginity and had beaten her and molested her in response.
Can we start diagnosing certain parts of Arabian culture as a mental illness now?
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Re: Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

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Sometimes, people are monsters. Sometimes, the monsters are really, really big and strong and you won't be able to fight them.
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Re: Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

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Saudi Arabia is neither big nor strong.
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Re: Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

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Relative to the people being hurt, they are.
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Re: Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

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Borgholio wrote:Can we start diagnosing certain parts of Arabian culture as a mental illness now?
Can we start treating dipshits who think misogyny is an exclusively arabian vice as reality-challenged assburgers now?
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Re: Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

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A Saudi preacher accused of torturing his five-year-old daughter and beating her to death ....It was reported that al-Ghamdi had suspected his daughter of losing her virginity and had beaten her and molested her in response.

regarding the OP. I have to wonder. How does one suspect that thier five year old duaghter is no longer a virgin ?
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Re: Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

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Metahive wrote:
Borgholio wrote:Can we start diagnosing certain parts of Arabian culture as a mental illness now?
Can we start treating dipshits who think misogyny is an exclusively arabian vice as reality-challenged assburgers now?
So you think that beating your 5-year old to death because you think she's not a virgin is something that has been known to happen in Western nations?
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Re: Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

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This idiocy is not tied to Islam, or the sharia, based on islam.
This whole thing is Saudi Arabian culture and Saudi Arabian law, not Sharia, despite what it is labelled.

Correct islamic law says the killer must face the death penalty, plus financial compensation to the victim's family. This is unless the victims decide to forgive the killer, in that case, blood-money is sufficient.

In this case, the killer's and the victim's family are one and the same, so the only logical consequence is that the family is messed up.
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Re: Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

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Borgholio wrote:
Metahive wrote:
Borgholio wrote:Can we start diagnosing certain parts of Arabian culture as a mental illness now?
Can we start treating dipshits who think misogyny is an exclusively arabian vice as reality-challenged assburgers now?
So you think that beating your 5-year old to death because you think she's not a virgin is something that has been known to happen in Western nations?
Great dodge there, buddy. Answer me this, is misogyny something limited to only arabian culture?
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Re: Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

Post by Borgholio »

Great strawman there buddy. I never said misogyny is limited to Arabia. I'm talking about the parts of this case that ARE most likely limited to Islamic countries.

For instance:

1. Suspecting a *Five Year Old* of losing her virginity. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've noticed that Islamic culture has an attachment to virginity and female sexuality that differs from Western culture. 72 virgins for dying in service of Allah, punishing the rape victim instead of the perpetrators, etc...

2. Using said suspicion as an excuse for a beating. Ok this one is not specifically limited to Arabia, you're quite right. Misogynists around the world use all sorts of crazy excuses to beat women and children, but using this particular excuse? That's a new one on me.

3.
The judge in the case suggested that one reading of Islamic law meant a father could not be held fully accountable for the death of his children.
Enough said.

4.
She said she needed it [Blood Money] to help support her surviving children. That ruled out a life sentence.
In this country, you can file a wrongful death suit regardless of the sentence given (or not given) to the accused.

5. Finally, ONLY after massive international outcry, he gets 8 years and a few hundred lashes. In Western nations, he'd get 30 years to life for premeditated murder.
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Re: Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

Post by Thanas »

Borgholio wrote:
Metahive wrote:
Borgholio wrote:Can we start diagnosing certain parts of Arabian culture as a mental illness now?
Can we start treating dipshits who think misogyny is an exclusively arabian vice as reality-challenged assburgers now?
So you think that beating your 5-year old to death because you think she's not a virgin is something that has been known to happen in Western nations?
In the middle ages? Sure. Heck, back then they even thought that stripping young girls naked, roping them over an anvil and then pretending to smash her body with the big hammer was a good way to cure the girl from the devil.
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Re: Saudi-Arabia: dancing naked is worse than murder

Post by SMJB »

Thanas wrote:Our friends and allies, everyone.
Ugh, don't remind me. Their goddamn oil can't be worth it. If it is, we are clearly doing something wrong.
Metahive wrote:
Borgholio wrote:Can we start diagnosing certain parts of Arabian culture as a mental illness now?
Can we start treating dipshits who think misogyny is an exclusively arabian vice as reality-challenged assburgers now?
Exclusively? Of course it's not. But you have to admit that a situation like what the OP describes wouldn't have happened in, say, Latin America. There are degrees in everything, and some cultures are simply better than others.
xerex wrote:
A Saudi preacher accused of torturing his five-year-old daughter and beating her to death ....It was reported that al-Ghamdi had suspected his daughter of losing her virginity and had beaten her and molested her in response.

regarding the OP. I have to wonder. How does one suspect that thier five year old duaghter is no longer a virgin ?
Dear Jesus Christ, I do not want to know!!!
krakonfour wrote:This idiocy is not tied to Islam, or the sharia, based on islam.
This whole thing is Saudi Arabian culture and Saudi Arabian law, not Sharia, despite what it is labelled.

Correct islamic law says the killer must face the death penalty, plus financial compensation to the victim's family. This is unless the victims decide to forgive the killer, in that case, blood-money is sufficient.

In this case, the killer's and the victim's family are one and the same, so the only logical consequence is that the family is messed up.
I don't think anyone's tried to blame Islam as a whole for this on this thread yet. As for Sharia, it's been my understanding that if you ask three Muslims what Sharia law is, you'll get four answers.
Thanas wrote:In the middle ages? Sure. Heck, back then they even thought that stripping young girls naked, roping them over an anvil and then pretending to smash her body with the big hammer was a good way to cure the girl from the devil.
Firstly...well, Middle Ages. As in, not modern. Hell, the concept of Western culture--as in, with a capital "W"--hadn't even been invented yet; the proper term for the culture of the time is Christendom.

Secondly...that whole hammer thing still seems less barbaric than modern Saudi Arabia. Just saying.
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