NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

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NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

From From NPR

There's a big race right now to become the 51st state.

Forget traditional contenders like Puerto Rico. In several existing states, residents of less populous areas are hoping to create new states of their own.

Citizens in 11 northeastern Colorado counties are among them. They'll vote on Nov. 5 whether to break off and form their own state. Many are unhappy about liberal state legislation they believe reflects the values of the Denver-Boulder corridor, but not their part of the world.

"We're rarely listened to when it comes to legislation," says Butch White, the mayor of Ault. "I'm sure the vote will pass in Weld County quite easily."

The Colorado counties aren't alone. There's been occasional talk of secession at various times in recent decades, but now the idea is showing signs of taking root across the map.

There is talk about and sometimes movement toward secession in several states. These are locally motivated startups, but they share some themes in common.

People in mostly conservative areas feel isolated living in states controlled by Democrats. Rural residents, in particular, believe their values are given no respect in capitols now completely dominated by urban and suburban interests.

Secession may be part of the same impulse that leads states to sue or otherwise try to block or nullify federal laws they don't like. People are losing respect for institutions that don't reflect their preferences and would prefer, to the extent possible, to extricate themselves from them.

"What we would like to do is gain representation for the northern people of the state," says Mark Baird, spokesman for a committee seeking to split off part of California. "The only way to do that is to have our own state."


Can't Get No Satisfaction

Among those yearning to break free from their states are people living in largely red counties in blue states who are displeased by new laws addressing such matters as gun control, environmental protection and gun control.

"You have issues that go way beyond gun rights," says Anthony Navarro, owner of Colorado Shooting Sports, a gun shop in Greeley. "You have people in Boulder and Denver who have and are dictating to the rest of the state."

There are some Democrats who have launched trial balloons about splitting off parts of Florida and Arizona, but those ideas haven't caught on.

Secession-minded residents in rural areas complain their voices aren't being heard in distant capitals. Some would like to create new governments from scratch rather than staying forever trapped within a larger state that doesn't reflect their preferences.

"There's no one solution that's going to be perfect, but the fact is we can minimize differences and allow people more choice about how they're governed," says Scott Strzelczyk, head of an initiative seeking to create a new state in western Maryland.

"It's like the Baskin-Robbins of states," he says. "You can actually live in a political society that governs the way you want to be governed. The more choice the better."

Rural Decline

Figures released this summer by the Census Bureau that the country's rural population, for the first time, is in decline. Rural areas now account for about 15 percent of the nation's population.

Even in farm states, rural areas within state legislatures in the last round of redistricting, exacerbating a long-standing trend.

"Greater Los Angeles has something like 34 representatives" in the California Assembly, says Baird, the spokesman for the Jefferson Declaration Committee. "The northern third of California has three."

A similar sense of frustration led to last year on the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, although it appears that effort is gaining no traction.

"We have one-third of the land mass and 3 percent of the population, so it's easy to feel neglected," says Steve Pence, a county commissioner in Marquette, Mich. "It's grounded in the legitimate feeling that if you're marginalized by geography, it's easy to feel neglected by the central government."

Odds Are Against

People in Northern California and southern Oregon have been talking about creating a state of Jefferson for a long time. They went so far as to in 1941 — three days before Pearl Harbor, which brought that particular effort to an end.

In 1965, the state Senate voted to divide the state. That didn't happen, though.

So far, only two counties have approved the latest calls to create a new state, although as many as a dozen more may soon join in.

But no state has been calved from within the borders of an existing state since West Virginia split off from Virginia in 1863.

Secession simply isn't going to happen, says Daniel Farber, a law professor at the University of California, Berkeley, who has the issue. Creation of a new state would require the blessing of the state being spurned, as well as congressional approval.

It's a Catch-22: People who want to secede because they lost influence don't have the influence to make it happen.

"You'd have to persuade the U.S. Senate to add two more senators, but why would they do that, since that would dilute their own state's influence and might well add votes to the opposing party?" Farber says.

The legal and institutional hurdles are high enough that no existing state is likely to be broken up in our lifetimes. But the urge is clearly there.

In this polarized era, lots of states that don't like the direction the federal government is taking have challenged numerous laws in court.

Is it any surprise that people within states show similar dissatisfaction?

"The politics of states have become increasingly polarized," says Tim Conlan, a public policy professor at George Mason University. "Talk of secession from Colorado or Maryland, that's partly related to the same thing. The same demographic polarization is going on within many states."
So once again the answer to disputes is "SECESSION!"
To be fair, the article does mention that there where a few democratic regions that wanted to try similar ideas (In Florida and Arizona)
Although I find it interesting that while those wanted to break from their parent states due to mostly ideological disputes, most of the conservatives areas wish to split because they feel they don't have enough "Power"
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Dr. Trainwreck »

I understand that these people might not have the means to simply fuck off to a red state, but really? If this is their reaction to living in a state that is majority Democrat anyway, then what should people in gerrymandered states do? For example, North Carolina's even vote (51/49 for the Dems) was mutated into a 9/4 representation for Republicans. Should these citizens rise up and hang their representatives from a tree?
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Brother-Captain Gaius »

Oh, Greeley. The gift that just keeps on giving. Never change.

Though it bears mentioning that Colorado is traditionally considered a "swing" state. It votes red sometimes and blue other times, so it seems to me that it's a lot better off than most states, if you feel you're in what you perceive to be a minority. That we passed marijuana legalization is just evidence we've got some democratic sanity, and not that we're some kind of Liberal Utopian Nightmare Hell, which dumb fuckers from Greeley and Springs GOD-FEARING MURICANS are suffering under.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Broomstick »

What it boils down to is that a number of people who used to be in the privileged majority have not yet come to terms with now being a minority viewpoint/culture.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Borgholio »

In all fairness, living in the Los Angeles area, I can kinda see where the other side is coming from. When I travel to Yosemite for vacation, I often take highway 395 because it is much more scenic than the 5 freeway through...*shudder*...Bakersfield.

Once you leave Southern CA and head up the 395, you enter a whole different world. While LA is full of Obama stickers, the Central and Owens valleys are as Red as you can find anywhere in the country. Romney signs everywhere, bumper stickers attacking the distribution of water rights and the lack of representation, etc...

Truth be told, given the night and day difference between Southern and Central CA, I think they would indeed be much happier having their own state.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Knife »

Borgholio wrote: Truth be told, given the night and day difference between Southern and Central CA, I think they would indeed be much happier having their own state.
Nah, then they have nothing to bitch about. They'll end up gripping about neighbor's politicians and how they are holding the new state down.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Broken »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are not rural areas already massively over-represented at the Federal level due to 2 Senators per state regardless of population and the extensive gerrymandering that has been going on? As the article in the OP points out, rural America is only 15% of the population, but seems to want to be able to dictate how the entire country runs or they'll take their ball and go home.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Borgholio »

That is balanced out by the House. A rural state with nobody living there like Alaska is over-represented in the Senate. However, that is balanced out by the paltry number of Representatives they have in the House.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Broomstick »

And yet, it seems to be the House is more full of Teh Crazie lately than the Senate.

And yes, the rural areas and the 15% do want to dictate to and control everyone else. They can't seem to understand why the remaining 85% are not enthused by this.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Borgholio »

So if we go by the appearance that the schism between right and left is widening, how long until one side does something stupid?
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

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Borgholio wrote:So if we go by the appearance that the schism between right and left is widening, how long until one side does something stupid?
Define 'stupid'.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Stupid like perhaps shutting down the government?
Ohhh! Wait!
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Borgholio »

Stupid as in trying to violently create their new state when the lawful democratic processes don't work the way they want them to? I know it's been tried before in 1861 but some of these people have a short memory.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Patroklos »

The OP is not talking about anything violent.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Borgholio »

Right. Not now. But what if the non-violence gets them nowhere? Are they just going to stay put and keep whining or escalate it?
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by PKRudeBoy »

Borgholio wrote:Right. Not now. But what if the non-violence gets them nowhere? Are they just going to stay put and keep whining or escalate it?
Stay put and keep whining. Or maybe move. How would violence even help them? They are trying to become a new state, violence would only cause them to lose any political legitimacy they might otherwise have. This isn't Belfast during the troubles, these are a group of people with comfortable lives who aren't going to risk serious trouble over ideas that have failed to gain popular traction for the decades that they have been around.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Simon_Jester »

From Article Four of the Constitution:

"New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress."

So basically, this is not going to happen. If it did the main effect would be to pack the Senate with Republicans by creating a swarm of Republican microstates- what would be arguably more legitimate would be for the areas in question to, say, calve off and become part of Wyoming (in the case of northern rural Colorado).
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Terralthra »

Simon, it can totally happen, so long as Congress and the State Legislature involved agree. Doesn't seem too outlandish a concept to me, especially out west where the states are bigger and tend to have a more complex mix of urban and rural communities. California, especially, could easily be three or four states: San Angeles, The Greater Bay Area, the Central Valley, and NorCal.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Napoleon the Clown »

Borgholio wrote:Right. Not now. But what if the non-violence gets them nowhere? Are they just going to stay put and keep whining or escalate it?
There could be a handful of people who would escalate it, but very few people would be willing to back them up. Just because they're mad about not getting their way all the time doesn't mean that they're gonna do anything violent to try and get their way.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Borgholio »

Terralthra wrote:Simon, it can totally happen, so long as Congress and the State Legislature involved agree. Doesn't seem too outlandish a concept to me, especially out west where the states are bigger and tend to have a more complex mix of urban and rural communities. California, especially, could easily be three or four states: San Angeles, The Greater Bay Area, the Central Valley, and NorCal.
There was indeed talk about that several years back if I recall. They were talking about splitting the state in two at the Kern County Line, with the northern half having Sacramento be the capitol, and the southern half having LA as the capitol.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Iroscato »

I think the closest equivalent we have in the UK is Scotland. A few politicians and individuals make a noise about breaking up the union now and again, but it hasn't happened and as far as I can tell, won't happen for a long time yet, because the idea is quite simply, suicidal. They know the union is beneficial to both sides, and it would take a truly grave turn of events to change that. From what I can gather, this talk in the US is mere sabre-rattling and is little to be concerned about...
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by PhilosopherOfSorts »

If I'm reading the article correctly, these groups don't want to secede from the nation, they want to split off and form new states, that would still be part of the U.S.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Rogue 9 »

Terralthra wrote:Simon, it can totally happen, so long as Congress and the State Legislature involved agree.
Which isn't going to happen. The legislature as a whole is unlikely to want to cut up its territory and the Senate is likely to take a dim view of packing itself.
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Terralthra »

Rogue 9 wrote:
Terralthra wrote:Simon, it can totally happen, so long as Congress and the State Legislature involved agree.
Which isn't going to happen. The legislature as a whole is unlikely to want to cut up its territory and the Senate is likely to take a dim view of packing itself.
It's...already happened? More than once?
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Re: NPR: Far right regions wish to split from Liberal States

Post by Haruko »

These disgruntled people can refocus their energies on getting more sovereignty for Indian nations within America; you know, the groups with actual reason for being disgruntled.
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