The first female Marines ever to complete infantry training

[Kitsune]

Previously, I read a lot of comments that this was impossible. . . .That no women could pass the course
Might want to read some of the comments

http://blogs.militarytimes.com/battle-r ... -training/

These are the first four women in Marine Corps history to complete infantry training.

This image, which appeared Nov. 9 on the social networking site Instagram, was first published earlier Tuesday by Business Insider. It was taken by Pfc. Harlee “Rambo” Bradford, who is pictured in the center. The other three women in the photo remain unidentified. Marine officials have kept confidential the identifies of all female students attending infantry training because they are considered test subjects participating in the service’s ongoing study to determine what additional ground combat jobs should open to women.

Marine Corps Times caught up with Bradford Tuesday afternoon. She told us that she sustained a leg injury that will preclude her from graduating with the other three later this week during a ceremony at Camp Geiger, N.C. “I finished all of the 0311 requirements with a stress fracture,” she said, referring to the Corps’ military occupational specialty code for infantry riflemen.

The injury prevented her from completing her last Physical Fitness Test and Combat Fitness Test, final requirements at the School of Infantry – East’s Infantry Training Battalion. ITB molds newly minted Marines into infantrymen during a rigorous 59-day course spent mostly living and training in the field.

Bradford said she will finish the program shortly and expects to participate in a graduation ceremony with ITB’s next class. That is scheduled for Dec. 20, said Capt. Maureen Krebs, a Marine spokeswoman at the Pentagon.

Women who complete ITB will not receive the 0311 MOS or join Marine infantry units. After graduation, they will head to their originally slated MOS schools.

[Iroscato]

On one hand; great! Good for them. On the other...Jesus, 2013 and they're the first ever? About time

[Kitsune]

First time they were allowed to try

[krakonfour]

First time they were allowed to try

This is the most amazing part of the news. First time they are allowed to try, and 4 pass. Out of how many women, if anybody knows?

[Lagmonster]

What's the normal pass/fail rate for the training, incidentally? And why can't they join marine units if they passed?

[Borgholio]

These women are probably among the most capable of defending themselves in the entire world. I *almost* feel sorry for the first chauvinist to get in their face about how a woman's place is in the kitchen. I'd pay to watch what happens to that dumb fuck.

[Block]

What's the normal pass/fail rate for the training, incidentally? And why can't they join marine units if they passed?

When I went through we had like a 50% graduation rate, but I think we had an unusual number of injuries due to stuff that's no longer allowed. They probably can't join those units because it hasn't been authorized yet, pretty simple.

[Zwinmar]

If they go to a victor unit, which they won't at least not at this time, it only gets more demanding. during training ops we would troll the guys going through Gieger because they had no idea what was coming or that what they were doing was an afternoon stroll for us.

Oh, just read they wont be going 03XX. Not impressed then though it is about damn time they were allowed to even try.

[spaceviking]

I'd guess that they will higher graduation rates than men, just because the average women is not going to sign up for the marines. An average man might.

[PeZook]

I am not surprised in the slightest. Female soldiers handled Stalingrad, for fuck's sake.

[Block]

I'd guess that they will higher graduation rates than men, just because the average women is not going to sign up for the marines. An average man might.

Meh, this class had a female grad rate of 20% compared to 87% for the men. I wouldn't be so sure.

[Pelranius]

First time they were allowed to try

I think there were two ladies who tried last year (one of them got sick, I think ,and the other broke her ankle rather badly).

[Lonestar]

I think there were two ladies who tried last year (one of them got sick, I think ,and the other broke her ankle rather badly).

I think you're thinking of the infantry officers course.


They did not do very well.

[spaceviking]

I am not surprised in the slightest. Female soldiers handled Stalingrad, for fuck's sake.

I would assume that modern soldiers are on average much more skilled and capable, ignoring technological differences.

[Simon_Jester]

On the other hand, if you point to a Stalingrad veteran, or the hypothetical clone of one, and say "he or she is unfit to serve in the infantry..." well, arguably you've messed up your concept of what "fit to serve" means.

Although granted, that may simply signal that this person is not your first choice as a soldier, because others ARE that much more fit/trained/etc.

[Zwinmar]

On the other hand, if you point to a Stalingrad veteran, or the hypothetical clone of one, and say "he or she is unfit to serve in the infantry..." well, arguably you've messed up your concept of what "fit to serve" means.

Although granted, that may simply signal that this person is not your first choice as a soldier, because others ARE that much more fit/trained/etc.

Here is the thing: a Stalingrad vet was effectively in a static defense where they could store their gear and come back for it.
It was pretty routine for us to be carrying between 100-130 lbs. of gear and moving, by just marching, 50 miles in three days. That 50 miles does not take into account the other movement we did, just from point A to point B along a rode.
On another note: my first six months with my unit in the fleet we ran 11 miles every week day (when not in the field), 11 fucking miles.

Don't get me wrong, a static and/or guerrilla defense is demanding but certainly not in the same way that we had to move. Not to mention, we did this is hot, humid weather including out in the Mojave desert where as, unless I'm mistaken, Stalingrad took place during cooler months.

[spaceviking]

Stalingrad veterans went through hell, that does that mean they were great individual soldiers. Modern soldiers have the benefit of better diets, better training and education. They were no doubt tough as fuck though, since they did not have a choice.

[PeZook]

I would assume that modern soldiers are on average much more skilled and capable, ignoring technological differences.

Stalingrad veterans went through hell, that does that mean they were great individual soldiers. Modern soldiers have the benefit of better diets, better training and education. They were no doubt tough as fuck though, since they did not have a choice.

So? Are you saying women are too stupid to handle modern equipment or coordinate with support arms, that they're too incompetent to absorb instruction or that they're too psychologically frail to withstand modern training regimens which, if that's your position, would mean modern training is worse than fucking Stalingrad?

Clearly the physical and psychological ability to withstand months of constant combat with next to no food and water and temperatures as low as -30 degrees doesn't mean women are fit to serve in the infanty or could be expected to complete infantry school, pfft. You need a penis for that.

It was pretty routine for us to be carrying between 100-130 lbs. of gear and moving, by just marching, 50 miles in three days. That 50 miles does not take into account the other movement we did, just from point A to point B along a rode.
On another note: my first six months with my unit in the fleet we ran 11 miles every week day (when not in the field), 11 fucking miles.

Yeah, man, no female soldier ever marched 25km a day in WW2 ever.

The point of that statement was that Stalingrad was at least as demanding as any infantry school on the planet that's not run by total psychos. Hey, you know how recruits get enough calories to function? How they actually get enough time to sleep? How it lasts for 12 weeks, full stop, clearly defined at the start? How the barracks are actually heated? How they get enough water? How nobody is doing their best to actually, genuinely kill them throughout all that time?

Of course I do like the bullshit posturing that essentially says Marine infantry school is worthless as preparation for actual service, so kudos to you! Man, we've never seen that talk before, right?

Oh wait, we did, and it was referenced in the OP - we saw it back when people were bragging how it was impossible for women to finish marine infantry school. Now that they did, dweebs are going "oh yeah but they will totally fail if they ever get to do real Marine things, which marine infantry school is not!"

[Thanas]

It pretty much is hilarious how people are claiming that surviving Stalingrad (what with its food shortages, no heating, freezing winter so cold that you could not touch any metal or it would rip your skin off) is not tough enough to get through US marches.

[Tiriol]

On the other hand, if you point to a Stalingrad veteran, or the hypothetical clone of one, and say "he or she is unfit to serve in the infantry..." well, arguably you've messed up your concept of what "fit to serve" means.

Although granted, that may simply signal that this person is not your first choice as a soldier, because others ARE that much more fit/trained/etc.

Here is the thing: a Stalingrad vet was effectively in a static defense where they could store their gear and come back for it.
It was pretty routine for us to be carrying between 100-130 lbs. of gear and moving, by just marching, 50 miles in three days. That 50 miles does not take into account the other movement we did, just from point A to point B along a rode.
On another note: my first six months with my unit in the fleet we ran 11 miles every week day (when not in the field), 11 fucking miles.

Don't get me wrong, a static and/or guerrilla defense is demanding but certainly not in the same way that we had to move. Not to mention, we did this is hot, humid weather including out in the Mojave desert where as, unless I'm mistaken, Stalingrad took place during cooler months.

Simple questions: were you under enemy fire during that time? Were you being properly fed, clothed and looked after (like if a medical situation would arise you'd get proper care) during that time? Were you under the threat of being taken as a prisoner by enemy forces and shipped off to a prison camp? How were you treated by your superiors and by their superiors?

Edit: however, I assume that Zwinmar is referring to how well someone is going to carry certain amount of gear and still be able to move quickly and/or cover large distances. Anecdotal evidence from my conscript time suggests that some of the gear used by military is not necessarily too heavy for women, but its design does not take into account shape of typical female body. At least one of my female friends complained about it while she was serving as a corporal. However, Stalingrad is in any case an extreme point of how women can and will function just as well as men in a combat situation.

[krakonfour]

I would assume that modern soldiers are on average much more skilled and capable, ignoring technological differences.

Stalingrad veterans went through hell, that does that mean they were great individual soldiers. Modern soldiers have the benefit of better diets, better training and education. They were no doubt tough as fuck though, since they did not have a choice.

So? Are you saying women are too stupid to handle modern equipment or coordinate with support arms, that they're too incompetent to absorb instruction or that they're too psychologically frail to withstand modern training regimens which, if that's your position, would mean modern training is worse than fucking Stalingrad?

Clearly the physical and psychological ability to withstand months of constant combat with next to no food and water and temperatures as low as -30 degrees doesn't mean women are fit to serve in the infanty or could be expected to complete infantry school, pfft. You need a penis for that.

It was pretty routine for us to be carrying between 100-130 lbs. of gear and moving, by just marching, 50 miles in three days. That 50 miles does not take into account the other movement we did, just from point A to point B along a rode.
On another note: my first six months with my unit in the fleet we ran 11 miles every week day (when not in the field), 11 fucking miles.

Yeah, man, no female soldier ever marched 25km a day in WW2 ever.

The point of that statement was that Stalingrad was at least as demanding as any infantry school on the planet that's not run by total psychos. Hey, you know how recruits get enough calories to function? How they actually get enough time to sleep? How it lasts for 12 weeks, full stop, clearly defined at the start? How the barracks are actually heated? How they get enough water? How nobody is doing their best to actually, genuinely kill them throughout all that time?

Of course I do like the bullshit posturing that essentially says Marine infantry school is worthless as preparation for actual service, so kudos to you! Man, we've never seen that talk before, right?

Oh wait, we did, and it was referenced in the OP - we saw it back when people were bragging how it was impossible for women to finish marine infantry school. Now that they did, dweebs are going "oh yeah but they will totally fail if they ever get to do real Marine things, which marine infantry school is not!"

WTF PeZook?
How the fuck did you extract THAT from his post?!

He was talking about Stalingrad being worse than any modern training camp. You then repeated his point and brought up women soldiers. Just....how?

[Spoonist]

I find it very strange that there is still such a massive resistance to this in the US. I mean its not like US women are intrinsically weaker than the world average.

I also find it very strange that the weight of the gear is mentioned in context without any complaints about why you'd have to carry all that gear to be effective as infantry/marine. We have had plenty of discussions on this before especially in the mess. The carried gear inflation is nuts.

WTF PeZook?
How the fuck did you extract THAT from his post?!

He was talking about Stalingrad being worse than any modern training camp. You then repeated his point and brought up women soldiers. Just....how?

Uhm, he said it quite explicitly:
"Don't get me wrong, a static and/or guerrilla defense is demanding but certainly not in the same way that we had to move. Not to mention, we did this is hot, humid weather including out in the Mojave desert where as, unless I'm mistaken, Stalingrad took place during cooler months."
Yes he said that what he did on a regular basis in the Mojave desert was more demanding than Stalingrad.
Typical jarhead bullshit, but what I think he was aiming for was stating that it was more physically demanding. Which is a very weird way of trying to inflate ones ego. Its not like most realise that the average person in Stalingrad couldn't carry all that gear around etc, but it says just about nothing when it comes to how "demanding" those conditions were.

[Grumman]

I also find it very strange that the weight of the gear is mentioned in context without any complaints about why you'd have to carry all that gear to be effective as infantry/marine. We have had plenty of discussions on this before especially in the mess. The carried gear inflation is nuts.

I was just about to, if that helps. I recall when that female Marine was arguing against women getting into the infantry or some such, that it wasn't just her in her unit that was being lamed by the loads they were being expected to carry.

[Spoonist]

I also find it very strange that the weight of the gear is mentioned in context without any complaints about why you'd have to carry all that gear to be effective as infantry/marine. We have had plenty of discussions on this before especially in the mess. The carried gear inflation is nuts.

I was just about to, if that helps. I recall when that female Marine was arguing against women getting into the infantry or some such, that it wasn't just her in her unit that was being lamed by the loads they were being expected to carry.

Sure it helps. Its suboptimal if the gear that is supposed to help your troops is making the selection percentage of people who can carry it without injury smaller and smaller.
I was trying to find that image with gear weights and numbers over the different wars but couldn't - you know which one I'm thinking about? I think it was posted in the mess at least twice.

[Kitsune]

I also find it very strange that the weight of the gear is mentioned in context without any complaints about why you'd have to carry all that gear to be effective as infantry/marine. We have had plenty of discussions on this before especially in the mess. The carried gear inflation is nuts.

I was just about to, if that helps. I recall when that female Marine was arguing against women getting into the infantry or some such, that it wasn't just her in her unit that was being lamed by the loads they were being expected to carry.

Sure it helps. Its suboptimal if the gear that is supposed to help your troops is making the selection percentage of people who can carry it without injury smaller and smaller.
I was trying to find that image with gear weights and numbers over the different wars but couldn't - you know which one I'm thinking about? I think it was posted in the mess at least twice.

Problem is that is is actually far too much for anybody. . .The army and marines are getting thousands of injuries a year just because of their gear