Indian consular official arrested - India goes apeshit

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Borgholio
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6297
Joined: 2010-09-03 09:31pm
Location: Southern California

Indian consular official arrested - India goes apeshit

Post by Borgholio »

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/17/politics/ ... -diplomat/
(CNN) -- The arrest and detention of an Indian consular official in New York on visa fraud charges has created a diplomatic uproar, with punitive steps taken against State Department officials in New Delhi.

Devyani Khobragade, India's deputy consul general, was arrested on December 12 after she dropped her daughter off at school.

She was not handcuffed until she arrived at the courthouse, a law enforcement source familiar with the case told CNN, calling that "a courtesy not afforded to most people," including alleged white-collar criminals.

Court papers allege that Khobragade had submitted false documents to obtain a work visa for her female housekeeper, paying her less than the amount stated.

Khobragade, 39, was held in a cell with other females and strip-searched in New York following her arrest, the U.S. Marshals Service said, noting such treatment was standard procedure in her case and that no policies were violated. She eventually posted bond and was released.

She has been moved to India's Permanent Mission to the United Nations, an Indian external affairs ministry official said.

The case has set off outrage in India about Khobragade's treatment by U.S. law enforcement officials. But it has also drawn concern from human rights advocates about her allegedly underpaying her housekeeper.
U.S. strip searches Indian diplomat
India and U.S. feud over diplomat's arrest

The Indian government has described the diplomat's treatment by the U.S. justice system as barbaric.

"We are shocked and appalled at the manner in which she has been humiliated by the U.S. authorities," Indian external affairs spokesman Syed Akbaruddin said last week. He called the treatment of Khobragade "absolutely unacceptable."

New York police were not involved. The U.S. Marshals Service handled her detention.

Barriers removed from embassy

Indian officials have summoned U.S. Ambassador Nancy Powell, taken away U.S. diplomats' identification cards that give them diplomatic benefits, and removed security barriers outside the U.S. embassy in New Delhi.

Several senior government ministers and politicians snubbed a visiting congressional delegation as well.

"I think we have taken a tough stand. We do protect our foreign service officers and any other Indian that is unfairly treated outside," said Deputy Foreign Minister Preneet Kaur. "And I think in the strongest diplomatic way we can take it up, it is being done."

The U.S. State Department sought to prevent tensions from escalating further, while admonishing the Indian government on the punitive measures.

Marie Harf, a State Department spokeswoman, said appropriate procedures appear to have been followed by the Diplomatic Security agents who arrested Khobragade. She said conditions surrounding her processing by U.S. Marshals would be examined.

"We understand that this is a sensitive issue for many in India," Harf said. "Accordingly, we are looking into the intake procedures surrounding this arrest to ensure that all appropriate procedures were followed and every opportunity for courtesy was extended."

She said the United States and India "enjoy a broad and deep friendship and this isolated episode is not indicative of the close and mutually respectful ties we share."

But Harf said Khobragade's arrest should not be cause for a diplomatic tit-for-tat with reciprocal measures against U.S. diplomats.

"This limited episode was somebody who was charged with a crime, is a separate and isolated incident," Harf said. "We have conveyed at high levels to the government of India our expectations that India will continue to fulfill all of its obligations under the Vienna Convention."

"The safety and security of our diplomats and consular officers in the field is a top priority," she added. "We'll continue to work with India to ensure that all of our diplomats and consular officers are being afforded full rights and protections."

Immunity dispute

Harf said that Khobragade enjoys "consular immunity," a limited diplomatic immunity related to her official duties. Under the 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, consular officials can still be arrested for acts committed outside of official job functions.

Khobragade's lawyer, Daniel Arshack, claims that she is entitled to diplomatic immunity and can't be prosecuted under U.S. law, CNN's Indian sister network IBN reported.

The Marshals Service said in a statement that she was "subject to the same search procedures" as others arrested and "held within the general prisoner population" along with other female defendants in a cell while awaiting court proceedings.

The statement said the service reviewed her treatment and determined that her "intake and detention" were in accordance with its policies.

Concerns about domestic workers

Human Rights Watch, a New York-based advocacy group, acknowledged concerns over the use of strip-searches in the U.S. justice system, but it focused its attention on the treatment of domestic workers.

"The common practice in the U.S. of strip-searching people who the police take into custody raises important human rights questions about treating individuals with dignity and respecting their privacy," said Nisha Varia, a senior researcher in the group's women's rights division.

"But other human rights issues at hand -- the allegations that Khobragade took advantage of her domestic worker -- remain," Varia said in a post on the group's website.

"Despite wide coverage of the case in India, there has been little public outrage or shame that Devyani Khobragade, India's deputy consul general in New York, who has championed women's rights in other settings, allegedly paid her domestic worker a fraction of New York's legal minimum wage," Varia wrote.

Her post noted that Human Rights Watch has documented mistreatment of domestic workers across the globe.

"They often face underpayment and long working hours with little hope of redress," she wrote. "Diplomats from many countries who abuse their workers have often used their status to skirt the law."

Case focuses on hourly wage

U.S. prosecutors allege that Khobragade stated in the visa application for her housekeeper that she would pay her at least $9.75 per hour, the New York minimum wage.

But in reality, the prosecutors say, the housekeeper ended up being paid the equivalent of less than $3.31 per hour.

"Foreign nationals brought to the United States to serve as domestic workers are entitled to the same protections against exploitation as those afforded to United States citizens," Manhattan U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara said in a statement last week announcing Khobragade's arrest.

"The false statements and fraud alleged to have occurred here were designed to circumvent those protections so that a visa would issue for a domestic worker who was promised far less than a fair wage," he said. "This type of fraud on the United States and exploitation of an individual will not be tolerated."

Khobragade's father, Uttam, insisted that his daughter is innocent.

"My daughter has not done any wrong," he told IBN on Tuesday.

She has been charged with one count of visa fraud and one count of making false statements, U.S. prosecutors say. The visa fraud charge carries a maximum sentence of ten years in prison; the charge of making false statements has a maximum prison sentence of five years.

Adding extra complexity to the case, the Indian government says Khobragade's housekeeper, who it named as Sangeeta Richard, "absconded" in June.

The Delhi High Court issued an injunction in September seeking to stop Richard from "instituting any actions or proceedings against Dr Khobragade outside India on the terms or conditions of her employment," the Indian embassy said in a statement last week.

It said the U.S. government was "requested to locate Ms Richard and facilitate the service of an arrest warrant, issued by the Metropolitan Magistrate of the South District Court in New Delhi."
So an Indian diplomat lies on her visa and violates US employment law. She is arrested and India goes apeshit. They complain that we're treating her like a common criminal (which she pretty much is...her diplomatic status is currently unclear), they remove the security barriers around our embassy (classy, guys...), and they demand that we issue an arrest warrant for her housekeeper for "absconding" (despite the housekeeper not being guilty of actually committing a crime).

I couldn't care less about the temper tantrum being thrown by India. The only issue I see here is the strip and cavity search. Is that really standard practice for people arrested in New York? Seems a bit extreme to me unless they had reason to believe she was concealing something.
You will be assimilated...bunghole!
User avatar
Purple
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5233
Joined: 2010-04-20 08:31am
Location: In a purple cube orbiting this planet. Hijacking satellites for an internet connection.

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Purple »

What does absconding mean? The word is unfamiliar to me and a quick CTRL-F does not seem to find it in the article.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
User avatar
Borgholio
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6297
Joined: 2010-09-03 09:31pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Borgholio »

Adding extra complexity to the case, the Indian government says Khobragade's housekeeper, who it named as Sangeeta Richard, "absconded" in June.
It means either stealing (Absconding with something) or running away. So India seems to think that she's some sort of property and doesn't have the right to leave her "employer", and also wants to prevent her from testifying.
You will be assimilated...bunghole!
User avatar
Gaidin
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2646
Joined: 2004-06-19 12:27am
Contact:

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Gaidin »

Borgholio wrote: So an Indian diplomat lies on her visa and violates US employment law. She is arrested and India goes apeshit. They complain that we're treating her like a common criminal (which she pretty much is...her diplomatic status is currently unclear), they remove the security barriers around our embassy (classy, guys...), and they demand that we issue an arrest warrant for her housekeeper for "absconding" (despite the housekeeper not being guilty of actually committing a crime).

I couldn't care less about the temper tantrum being thrown by India. The only issue I see here is the strip and cavity search. Is that really standard practice for people arrested in New York? Seems a bit extreme to me unless they had reason to believe she was concealing something.
If the article is accurate I thought her diplomatic status was fairly clear. She's got a limited diplomatic immunity related to her official duties. Visa fraud for a personal housekeeper? Something I find doubtful that is on the list. But I imagine it'll make a fun court argument between the prosecution and the defense if India doesn't just get her the hell out of there(and to wit, State doesn't just let them). But then hell, it was the Bureau of Diplomatic Security that arrested her, so the Department of State might have to make a hell of a turn to let this one go short of India just absconding with her.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Thanas »

Sadly underpaying house workers seems to be par the course for some countries.

I do not get the strip search though. What, did they think she shoves weapons in her undies when dropping of her daughter?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Dominus Atheos
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3904
Joined: 2005-09-15 09:41pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Dominus Atheos »

It's standard whenever anyone is admitted to a prison.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Thanas »

Dominus Atheos wrote:It's standard whenever anyone is admitted to a prison.
A pat down, sure. But strip search? Why?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Borgholio
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6297
Joined: 2010-09-03 09:31pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Borgholio »

It was more than a strip search, it was also a cavity search according to USA Today.
You will be assimilated...bunghole!
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Thanas »

Seriously? :roll: What was the reason for that one?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
PhilosopherOfSorts
Jedi Master
Posts: 1008
Joined: 2008-10-28 07:11pm
Location: Waynesburg, PA, its small, its insignifigant, its almost West Virginia.

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by PhilosopherOfSorts »

Thanas wrote:
Dominus Atheos wrote:It's standard whenever anyone is admitted to a prison.
A pat down, sure. But strip search? Why?
Thanas wrote:Seriously? :roll: What was the reason for that one?

Pretty standard nowadays. As for the reason, its because people really like to sneak drugs and weapons into prison, can't imagine why.
A fuse is a physical embodyment of zen, in order for it to succeed, it must fail.

Power to the Peaceful

If you have friends like mine, raise your glasses. If you don't, raise your standards.
User avatar
Dominus Atheos
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3904
Joined: 2005-09-15 09:41pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Dominus Atheos »

In theory, the prisoner is supposed to take a supervised shower while their clothing is taken from them and searched, and they receive their prison uniform. Like I said, that's pretty standard at almost all prisons.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Thanas »

PhilosopherOfSorts wrote:Pretty standard nowadays. As for the reason, its because people really like to sneak drugs and weapons into prison, can't imagine why.
And they had reason to suspect a diplomat who was dropping off her daughter would be hiding drugs and weapons in her anus why......?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Gaidin
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2646
Joined: 2004-06-19 12:27am
Contact:

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Gaidin »

Thanas wrote:
PhilosopherOfSorts wrote:Pretty standard nowadays. As for the reason, its because people really like to sneak drugs and weapons into prison, can't imagine why.
And they had reason to suspect a diplomat who was dropping off her daughter would be hiding drugs and weapons in her anus why......?
If the diplomat does something for which her immunity does not cover are they supposed to start breaking other standard policies for her?
User avatar
Borgholio
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6297
Joined: 2010-09-03 09:31pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Borgholio »

If the diplomat does something for which her immunity does not cover are they supposed to start breaking other standard policies for her?
I think the question is, "Is it really standard policy to anally / vaginally probe every female inmate when they are booked and placed in jail awaiting bail?"

If it's not standard policy, the question is, "What did she do to deserve that kind of suspicion?"

If it IS standard policy, it sounds rather invasive. In my case, if I were pulled over for a traffic violation and had a bench warrant for an unpaid traffic fine...I would go to jail for a short time. Would I be stripped, showered, and have my ass explored for that too?
You will be assimilated...bunghole!
User avatar
Gaidin
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2646
Joined: 2004-06-19 12:27am
Contact:

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Gaidin »

Borgholio wrote:
If the diplomat does something for which her immunity does not cover are they supposed to start breaking other standard policies for her?
I think the question is, "Is it really standard policy to anally / vaginally probe every female inmate when they are booked and placed in jail awaiting bail?"

If it's not standard policy, the question is, "What did she do to deserve that kind of suspicion?"

If it IS standard policy, it sounds rather invasive. In my case, if I were pulled over for a traffic violation and had a bench warrant for an unpaid traffic fine...I would go to jail for a short time. Would I be stripped, showered, and have my ass explored for that too?
I can't say it's policy for bail, though it may be policy for anybody that makes it to that facility. There's a difference between the two.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Thanas »

It is colossally stupid, that's what it is. Not to mention degrading. But even more stupid for not recognizing the special circumstances at play here.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Gaidin
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2646
Joined: 2004-06-19 12:27am
Contact:

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Gaidin »

For something that carries a maximum of ten years and which the Department of State gave their own blatant blessing to carry out(hell, they arrested her themselves)? I can't say I'm shocked she made it to that facility. I don't see any sense in Borgholio making a blatant false analogy to an unpaid traffic fine, much less.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Thanas »

Nobody is saying they are wrong in arresting her. But there is no reason whatsoever to cavity-search her.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Gaidin
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2646
Joined: 2004-06-19 12:27am
Contact:

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Gaidin »

And I'm pointing out it's got nothing to do with that it's her, and more with the fact that they followed procedure and took her to whatever facility she was kept at and that may have been policy for whoever's brought in, because the facility may have to deal with people trying to bring things in like that.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Thanas »

You can't just go blindly following procedure in a case like this. If you do, you are colossally stupid beyond belief.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Gaidin
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2646
Joined: 2004-06-19 12:27am
Contact:

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Gaidin »

If State wanted her handled a certain way they shouldn't have handed her off to the Marshalls then. What the hell were they expecting?
User avatar
Borgholio
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6297
Joined: 2010-09-03 09:31pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Borgholio »

Gaidin wrote:For something that carries a maximum of ten years and which the Department of State gave their own blatant blessing to carry out(hell, they arrested her themselves)? I can't say I'm shocked she made it to that facility. I don't see any sense in Borgholio making a blatant false analogy to an unpaid traffic fine, much less.
It's not a false analogy. We don't know if the standard policy of strip and cavity searches is unique to this particular facility, crime, or law enforcement agency. I've never been in prison, I don't know what they do there. HOW DO I KNOW that I won't be strip searched for a traffic fine?
You will be assimilated...bunghole!
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Thanas »

Gaidin wrote:If State wanted her handled a certain way they shouldn't have handed her off to the Marshalls then. What the hell were they expecting?
Maybe they expected the Marshals to have a brain. And does State even have arresting forces?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Gaidin
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2646
Joined: 2004-06-19 12:27am
Contact:

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Gaidin »

Borgholio wrote: It's not a false analogy. We don't know if the standard policy of strip and cavity searches is unique to this particular facility, crime, or law enforcement agency. I've never been in prison, I don't know what they do there. HOW DO I KNOW that I won't be strip searched for a traffic fine?
I don't think it is unique to that facility. Jail is largely jail. They're going to make damn sure you're not bringing anything in with you, no matter who you are. That's why I say if State were to really be worried about her they shouldn't have just handed her off to the Marshalls. What's a false analogy is comparing an unpaid fine to a crime that can carry ten years. Unpaid fines go up, but they may take a while to hit the point where it's said fuck it and you get an arrest warrant slapped on you, depending on what the fine is for.
Thanas wrote:Maybe they expected the Marshals to have a brain. And does State even have arresting forces?
Bureau of Diplomatic Security.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Indian diplomat arrested for fraud - India goes apeshit.

Post by Thanas »

Do those have jurisdiction outside diplomatic premises and their own holding facilities?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Post Reply