Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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aerius
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Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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CBC News link
Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws
Parliament has 1 year to bring in new law as Criminal Code provisions remain in place
CBC News Posted: Dec 20, 2013 9:53 AM ET Last Updated: Dec 20, 2013 5:06 PM ET

The Supreme Court of Canada has struck down the country's anti-prostitution laws in a unanimous decision, and given Parliament one year to come up with new legislation — should it choose to do so.

In striking down laws prohibiting brothels, living on the avails of prostitution and communicating in public with clients, the top court ruled Friday that the laws were over-broad and "grossly disproportionate."

"Parliament has the power to regulate against nuisances, but not at the cost of the health, safety and lives of prostitutes," wrote Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin in the 9-0 decision that noted "it is not a crime in Canada to sell sex for money."

The ruling was in response to a court challenge by women with experience in the sex trade, Terri-Jean Bedford, Amy Lebovitch and Valerie Scott that had resulted in an Ontario court ruling that overturned the laws.

The Ontario Court of Appeal later upheld the law against communicating in public, but sided with the lower court in overturning the provisions against living off the avails and keeping a common bawdy house or brothel.

These appeals and the cross-appeal are not about whether prostitution should be legal or not. They are about whether the laws Parliament has enacted on how prostitution may be carried out pass constitutional muster. I conclude that they do not," McLachlin wrote.

"I would therefore make a suspended declaration of invalidity, returning the question of how to deal with prostitution to Parliament."

That means the provisions stay in the Criminal Code for the next year while the government decides what to do.

In a statement, Justice Minister Peter MacKay said the government would take the time to decide how to address "this very complex matter."

"We are reviewing the decision and are exploring all possible options to ensure the criminal law continues to address the significant harms that flow from prostitution to communities, those engaged in prostitution and vulnerable persons," his statement said.

MacKay also said there are "a number of other Criminal Code provisions" in place to protect sex-trade workers "and to address the negative effects prostitution has on communities."

The women in the case had argued that the law prevented them from safely conducting their business as sex-trade workers, arguing that hiring bodyguards and drivers, and being able to work in private homes or talk with potential clients in public were important to their safety.

"Now the government must tell Canadians, all consenting adults, what we can and cannot do in the privacy of our home for money or not. And they must write laws that are fair," Bedford told reporters gathered in the foyer of the Supreme Court building in Ottawa on Friday.

One of her co-respondents in the appeal said a new law won't work.

"The thing here is politicians, though they may know us as clients, they do not understand how sex work works," said Scott. "They won't be able to write a half-decent law. It will fail. That's why you must bring sex workers to the table in a meaningful way."

'Sky's not going to fall in'

Scott says new laws should be up to municipalities, not the federal government.

"If the Harper government rewrites laws, they will fail and the next generation of sex workers will be right back here. So let's not be stupid, federal government. Let's do something progressive, actually."

Scott added that "the sky's not going to fall in" with Friday's ruling.

"People said that when women got the right to vote, equal pay, equal rights, and same sex marriage — all of those things, every single one, people said the sky would fall in. It did not. Society is the better for it and society will be the better for sex workers having proper civil and occupational rights."

The women's lawyer, Alan Young, said it was important to understand the ruling affects "one of the most under-enforced laws in the Canadian Criminal Code.

"The fact that people are crying that the law's been invalidated, [they] don't understand that the law's been ineffective and largely just used in a discriminatory way."

"We're not really going to see any change tomorrow. It's going to be business as usual," Young said.

Others condemned the ruling.

"It's a sad day that we've now had confirmed that it's OK to buy and sell women and girls in this country. I think generations to come — our daughters, their granddaughters and on — will look back and say, 'What were they thinking?,'" said Kim Pate, executive director of the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies and a member of the Women's Coalition for the Abolition of Prostitution.

"To say that [prostitution] is a choice when you're talking about the women we work with is to say that in fact it's OK to just exploit them," Pate said.

"We've never seen men criminalized for buying and selling women and girls. We've always seen women criminalized for selling themselves. We absolutely object to the criminalization of women. Our position would not interfere with those women who truly have made their choices."

Worry about 'open season' for prostitution

Don Hutchinson, vice-president and general legal counsel for Evangelical Fellowship of Canada, said his group wants Parliament to come back with a new law that would "criminalize the purchase of sex and provide support services for those who wish to exit the sex trade.

"What we're suggesting is that for the first time in Canada, prostitution would be illegal. The purchase of sexual services or the rental of somebody's body would become illegal," Hutchinson said.

"If there's no replacement legislative scheme, then it's open season in regard to prostitution."

Lebovitch, however, said the decision will help protect sex-trade workers.

"I am shocked and amazed that sex work and the sex work laws that affect our lives on a daily basis will within a year not cause us harm any more."

"It's a huge victory for all the people in Vancouver, all my sisters out there who are going to be safe. It's just a huge, huge victory. I'm so happy," added Lorna Bird of the advocacy group Sex Workers United Against Violence.
Since Shroom isn't around these days, the word is WHORES!! WHORES!! WHORES!!
Also, damn those activist judges! Now all our daughters will become whores!

On a serious note, it's about damn time it happened. We're not going to get rid of prostitution and the existing laws pretty dumb and had loopholes all over the place. So the Supreme Court struck down the laws and told Parliament to come up with something that isn't broken, should they choose to do so.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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It honestly makes more sense to criminalize buying sex rather than selling it, since selling it is almost never an act undertaken except under duress (if nothing else, the duress of 'I have to eat'). Whereas I find it hard to imagine anyone ever forcing anyone to buy a prostitute's services.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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Simon_Jester wrote:It honestly makes more sense to criminalize buying sex rather than selling it, since selling it is almost never an act undertaken except under duress (if nothing else, the duress of 'I have to eat'). Whereas I find it hard to imagine anyone ever forcing anyone to buy a prostitute's services.
That seems unfair. If it's legal to sell something, it shouldn't be illegal to buy it. Stands to reason.

Don't really buy the duress argument either. I'd never work a day in my life if I wasn't under the duress of needing food and a place to live.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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Criminalizing buying sex instead of selling sex is a horrible idea that doesn't make things any safer or better for sex workers. The so-called Nordic model doesn't end sex work, it drives sex workers and their clients underground...where the sex workers are, frankly, even less safe. Have you asked any sex workers whether they think criminalizing their clients is a good thing for them?
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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Criminalizing it either way is stupid even if there were anything wrong with offering sex for money (which I fail to find fault with provided it is done voluntarily). It's going to happen no matter what you do (they don't call prostitution the world's oldest profession for nothing) no matter how much your religious nuts howl, so the best thing you can do is legalize and regulate it. As long as it's illegal either way both client and provider have little to no way to seek aid if they should be mistreated in any way. With legal prostitution, you can mandate regular health checks, decent working conditions, decent pay rates, health insurance, you can actually tax them (well tax them without looking like a complete douchebag of a government anyway), and all involved parties have legal avenues available to seek redress if and when they feel they have been wronged.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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Batman wrote: With legal prostitution, you can mandate regular health checks, decent working conditions, decent pay rates, health insurance, you can actually tax them (well tax them without looking like a complete douchebag of a government anyway), and all involved parties have legal avenues available to seek redress if and when they feel they have been wronged.
Take that tack and you have people being denied legal employment because of health problems, drug use, lack of insurance and what have you and ending up working as illegal prostitutes, which lands you right back where you started. So I'm leery about going down the "Legal but regulated" route
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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Ralin wrote:
Batman wrote: With legal prostitution, you can mandate regular health checks, decent working conditions, decent pay rates, health insurance, you can actually tax them (well tax them without looking like a complete douchebag of a government anyway), and all involved parties have legal avenues available to seek redress if and when they feel they have been wronged.
Take that tack and you have people being denied legal employment because of health problems, drug use, lack of insurance and what have you and ending up working as illegal prostitutes, which lands you right back where you started. So I'm leery about going down the "Legal but regulated" route
How is that any different than people working under the table in other careers? Plus, they obviously won't be getting work at a legal brothel (because I can only assume that said brothel would be fined and or shut down for these sorts of offences) so people will have to go looking for these less than legal working men and women, so that's kind of their risk.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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Jub wrote:How is that any different than people working under the table in other careers?
Whole lot more risk of rape and assault, for one thing.
Plus, they obviously won't be getting work at a legal brothel (because I can only assume that said brothel would be fined and or shut down for these sorts of offences) so people will have to go looking for these less than legal working men and women, so that's kind of their risk.
Which begs the question of why being employed at a brothel should be a requirement for being a legal prostitute. I'm not seeing any reason why it shouldn't be legal to work for oneself in this of all jobs.

Just saying, all these explanations I hear about how prostitution could be 'regulated' just seem to push the issue back further. If you make it legal for some people to work as prostitutes and not others you're going to run into the exact same problem of illegal prostitutes being abused that you have now.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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Ralin wrote:
Batman wrote: With legal prostitution, you can mandate regular health checks, decent working conditions, decent pay rates, health insurance, you can actually tax them (well tax them without looking like a complete douchebag of a government anyway), and all involved parties have legal avenues available to seek redress if and when they feel they have been wronged.
Take that tack and you have people being denied legal employment because of health problems, drug use, lack of insurance and what have you and ending up working as illegal prostitutes, which lands you right back where you started. So I'm leery about going down the "Legal but regulated" route
Maybe it's because I'm european out in the real world but what I meant was that if you're legally employed as a prostitute, the employer would have to provide health insurance?
And I don't see how regular health checks equals no legal employment. As long as you come up clean there's no problem, and if there's a problem that relates to sexually transferable illnesses, why the hell SHOULD you be allowed to to work as a prostitute while you have it?
People are denied legal employment for drug use every damned day in every profession there is because it undeniably affects their ability to do their job. Prostitutes suffer from that no more than any other job and I have yet to see how keeping Prostitution illegal will make things any better, nor how legalizing it could make it any worse. But feel free to educate me.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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Batman wrote: People are denied legal employment for drug use every damned day in every profession there is because it undeniably affects their ability to do their job. Prostitutes suffer from that no more than any other job
Generally speaking prostitution is something people do as a last resort, and consequently are a lot more vulnerable than people in most jobs. And drug use and last resort situations tend to coincide pretty well.
and I have yet to see how keeping Prostitution illegal will make things any better, nor how legalizing it could make it any worse. But feel free to educate me.
I'm not saying it would. I'm saying that there are problems with the "Legalize it but regulate it" model and I don't think there are any one size fits all solutions that cover everything. It's not as easy and straightforward as you make it out to be.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

Post by bilateralrope »

Several countries have legalized prostitution. Wouldn't it be better to find statistics showing how it has affected those countries instead of just theorizing about what will happen ?
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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I'm not sure where you get the 'one size fits all' angle from. I said legalizing and regulating it would make things better, which it inevitably would. I can't recall claiming that would actually realistically work for, say, the modern day US.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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Ralin wrote:
Jub wrote:How is that any different than people working under the table in other careers?
Whole lot more risk of rape and assault, for one thing.
So the thing you're afraid of happening if this law passes, is that prostitutes will work untested and addicted to drugs? How is that any different to what is happening right now?
Plus, they obviously won't be getting work at a legal brothel (because I can only assume that said brothel would be fined and or shut down for these sorts of offences) so people will have to go looking for these less than legal working men and women, so that's kind of their risk.
Which begs the question of why being employed at a brothel should be a requirement for being a legal prostitute. I'm not seeing any reason why it shouldn't be legal to work for oneself in this of all jobs.

Just saying, all these explanations I hear about how prostitution could be 'regulated' just seem to push the issue back further. If you make it legal for some people to work as prostitutes and not others you're going to run into the exact same problem of illegal prostitutes being abused that you have now.
Yes, you will still get some of the same issues, but you'll also make a dent in the problem. Cleaner, safer, regulated, prostitution will also likely make it a career that young college students do for a few years to pay the rent, just like pole dancing, appearing in pornography, and appearing on cam sites are now. The nasty drug addicted people with diseases will be out competed by the healthy young people who take safety seriously.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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Jub wrote:The nasty drug addicted people with diseases will be out competed by the healthy young people who take safety seriously.
Exceeeept that from what I've read and seen a fair number of the people who patronize prostitutes aren't just interested in sex, they're interested in control. Some johns get off on being abusive, and if they can't due that in legal brothels or whatever they're going to keep going to illegal streetwalkers. Assuming the brothels don't pressure their sex workers into taking it and make their continued employment contingent on doing things they don't want to do, in which case you have a whole other problem.

I'm in favor of legalization for a variety of reasons, but these problems aren't going to go away and should be borne in mind if the main goal is to help sex workers.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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Batman wrote:Criminalizing it either way is stupid even if there were anything wrong with offering sex for money (which I fail to find fault with provided it is done voluntarily).
Legalised prostitution is at odds with the absolute right to revoke consent. I think the closest you could get is to write it into law that the prostitute may cancel the transaction at any time by returning the payment in full.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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Grumman wrote:
Batman wrote:Criminalizing it either way is stupid even if there were anything wrong with offering sex for money (which I fail to find fault with provided it is done voluntarily).
Legalised prostitution is at odds with the absolute right to revoke consent. I think the closest you could get is to write it into law that the prostitute may cancel the transaction at any time by returning the payment in full.
Isn't that the way it works with any other transaction? I'm admittedly not only out in left field but probably in another solar system where US (or any, while we're at it) law is concerned, but from my admittedly limited understanding as long as you go 'Yeah, sorry, turns out we don't want to serve you afterall' and return the money you're legally in the clear.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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Ralin wrote:
Jub wrote:The nasty drug addicted people with diseases will be out competed by the healthy young people who take safety seriously.
Exceeeept that from what I've read and seen a fair number of the people who patronize prostitutes aren't just interested in sex, they're interested in control. Some johns get off on being abusive, and if they can't due that in legal brothels or whatever they're going to keep going to illegal streetwalkers. Assuming the brothels don't pressure their sex workers into taking it and make their continued employment contingent on doing things they don't want to do, in which case you have a whole other problem.

I'm in favor of legalization for a variety of reasons, but these problems aren't going to go away and should be borne in mind if the main goal is to help sex workers.
There are places where you can go to do that sort of thing, such as special brothels flavored towards BDSM. You'd just put a one way mirror in the room and have a person watching thing in case they get too intense. Will that solve every problem? No, but what ever has?
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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Ralin wrote:
Jub wrote:How is that any different than people working under the table in other careers?
Whole lot more risk of rape and assault, for one thing.
Plus, they obviously won't be getting work at a legal brothel (because I can only assume that said brothel would be fined and or shut down for these sorts of offences) so people will have to go looking for these less than legal working men and women, so that's kind of their risk.
Which begs the question of why being employed at a brothel should be a requirement for being a legal prostitute. I'm not seeing any reason why it shouldn't be legal to work for oneself in this of all jobs.

Just saying, all these explanations I hear about how prostitution could be 'regulated' just seem to push the issue back further. If you make it legal for some people to work as prostitutes and not others you're going to run into the exact same problem of illegal prostitutes being abused that you have now.
...in New Zealand there is no requirement to be employed in a brothel. The Prostitution Law Reform Act was drafted with the full co-operation of the Prostitute Collective: it was a collection of reforms that were driven by the Prostitutes themselves and not be a bunch of "do-gooders" who think they know what is best. All of your objections were, IMHO, effectively addressed in the NZ legislation. And as for your assertion that "a fair number of the people who patronize prostitutes aren't just interested in sex, they're interested in control", I've seen no evidence for this in any of the literature. Can you provide a cite? From my dealings with people in the industry a fair number of people who patronize prostitutes indeed aren't interested in sex, they are interested in company.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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banquetbear wrote:Can you provide a cite? From my dealings with people in the industry a fair number of people who patronize prostitutes indeed aren't interested in sex, they are interested in company.
I've heard that there have been surveys and stuff to that effect, but no I don't have a cite, so conceded.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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I think it would be more interesting to ask WHY despite the existence of a legal prostitution, an illegal scene still exists.

Especially so for Singapore. The prices aren't that different afterall....... and outside of the kinkier aspects(transsexuals and BDSM), there isn't any niche industry that freelancers exploits.

The only thing I can imagine is that its easier to advertise the illegal sex workers via pictures or the 'streetwalkers' since our laws forbid the advertising of sexual services, so, they get to have more access. That and the fact that freelancers include ladies of various classes and occupations, from students to models and etc, so, more variety compared to the legals?
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

Post by Guardsman Bass »

This is good news. Prostitution was technically legal in Canada, but the laws made it very unsafe for sex workers - they couldn't do stuff like hire body guards because that would be illegally giving someone the earnings of prostitution.

If it was already legal, does that mean that the Harper government couldn't bring themselves to try and pass a true ban, or simply that they couldn't? They supposedly have leeway for a year to write laws that don't violate the ruling. In any case, it's good news even if I wish the ruling would go into effect immediately.

EDIT: If anyone's curious, here's a fact-sheet on the Swedish law and its effects, compared to Canadian laws. It's also worth pointing that in addition to the hazards to sex workers in Sweden, it's also pretty poor at actually punishing the clients it is supposed to be targeting. There were about 2000 arrests over it as of 2009, but no jail sentences despite the six-month-prison sentence punishment, and only minor fines with convictions.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

Post by Irbis »

Ralin wrote:Take that tack and you have people being denied legal employment because of health problems, drug use, lack of insurance and what have you and ending up working as illegal prostitutes, which lands you right back where you started. So I'm leery about going down the "Legal but regulated" route
In most of Europe, you need to have a health check to work in a lot of professions, including food handling. Ditto for drug checks and insurance. This is nothing new.

Criminalizing either buying or selling is absurd - if Gestapo couldn't stamp out prostitution under the threat of death, nothing will. The best we can do is to ensure everyone concerned is well protected, not to engage in pointless and harmful 'war on sex'.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

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I've heard a lot of talk these past few days about how things like rape, violence, drug abuse, slavery, and child exploitation are all inherent to prostitution.

They aren't. They're inherent to *anything* where people aren't supported by society and protected by the police/government. Most of the arguments against prostitution are either a) problems that can be found in any profession, or b) problems caused by societal neglect and legal prohibition.

I heard someone from the Elizabeth Fry society comment that we can't have prostitutes out there because of the odds they're abusing drugs. If that were reason to criminalize a profession, there would be no fucking jobs, because every profession has drug addicts. And the whole thing about trafficking/slavery being something that "goes hand in hand with the sex trade" is just absurd: people are trafficked into north america all the time for jobs in construction, labour and agriculture; would you really feel good banning farming because of all the people smuggled in to the US to pick vegetables for unfairly low wages, many of whom may suffer rape, abuse, and violence because they're "off the radar"? No - you prohibit slavery and worker abuse, asshole.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

Post by Lagmonster »

As an aside, I'm positive beyond doubt that the government is comfortable with this decision, because they're free to pass a Swedish-style model later on that would amount to a de-facto prohibition on prostitution (thus appeasing the moderate-right) while simultaneously letting them claim that they're supportive of women (thus appeasing the moderate-left). It's a fairly safe political move even if any such laws regulating the sex trade continue to stereotypically infantilize women and villify men.
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Re: Supreme Court strikes down Canada's prostitution laws

Post by Lagmonster »

PainRack wrote:I think it would be more interesting to ask WHY despite the existence of a legal prostitution, an illegal scene still exists.
That's a question with a wild range of answers. But anywhere a service or product is available legally, you have the option for an illegal variant to exist. By staying "underground" a contractor of almost any service can work without costly licenses, can ignore health and safety laws, can avoid income taxes, and can offer illegal variants of commercial products.
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