Should there be an American Union?

[FaxModem1]

Considering the relative stability and success of the European continent compared to a century ago, and the seeming benefits the EU is giving its members, should the countries in the American continents consider doing the same? Is it even possible?

What would be required for such a thing to start? Would it be an improvement compared to today's geopolitical landscape, or would it make things worse?

As a bonus topic, apply this to areas such as Africa, South Asia, and the South Pacific.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

Well, as a general pointer: either achieve greater integration so you can avoid our current economic hilariousness, or just don't try at all.

[Highlord Laan]

It would never work because MUH FREEDUM!

[Spice Runner]

The EU is a great concept and could be a model (economic issues related to integration of Europe not withstanding) for other parts of the world in the future. However I think there are big obstacles to creating similar unions. Nationalism is one factor I can think of.

Nationalism still a very potent force in South Asia for example. Most nations in Asia as political entities as still very young. I cannot imagine very many people in India, Pakistan or Bangladesh or Sri Lanka being very receptive to a South Asian political union. Too much bad blood. Maybe after a few centuries of peaceful relations or after a few more large wars (hopefully not going to happen) it may be possible. With regards to greater Asia there is the Shanghai Pact Organization which may grow into something greater in the future possibly.

[Borgholio]

While it could be argued that having the US join an American Union is a good thing, too many people will knee-jerk about the "loss of our sovereignty and freedoms" and it'll never happen.

[Ralin]

While it could be argued that having the US join an American Union is a good thing, too many people will knee-jerk about the "loss of our sovereignty and freedoms" and it'll never happen.

As if the US wouldn't be the top dog in any AU by a huge margin.

Not that I'm disagreeing.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Please note it's not just the US in the Americas. I wonder what Mexico, Brazil or Canada would say to such an idea.

[Grumman]

At most, I could see the US joining with Canada. And even that's unlikely. I don't see why either would want to touch Mexico with a bargepole while it's still the worst or second-worst country in the OECD for crime, corruption, democracy, human development, as a failed state...

[Highlord Laan]

Please note it's not just the US in the Americas. I wonder what Mexico, Brazil or Canada would say to such an idea.

Thing is, I could see them hammering something out, while my country would be the self-entitled, greedy, obstructionist, John-Wayne wannabe asshole that it always is.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Please note it's not just the US in the Americas. I wonder what Mexico, Brazil or Canada would say to such an idea.

Thing is, I could see them hammering something out, while my country would be the self-entitled, greedy, obstructionist, John-Wayne wannabe asshole that it always is.

Oh absolutely I agree that it would probably be Murica that messes things up, but it's worth remembering other countries do exist.

Although, as Grumman said, I can't see Canada joining the US in anything other than the UN, and I can't see either of them dealing with Mexico. As for South America, I don't know, but I suspect none of them woudl be too interested in such a union either.

[Flagg]

Why the fuck would progressive countries in the Americas want to be saddled with the warped morally degenerate US?

[Ralin]

Why the fuck would progressive countries in the Americas want to be saddled with the warped morally degenerate US?

A say in US affairs and foreign policy? I'm sure there would be plenty of South American countries that would jump to be part of an union that gave them a better chance to influence American drug laws, immigration policy, foreign policy, etc.

What exactly would the people ruling the US get out of an American Union that they couldn't strong arm other American countries into giving them anyway?

[Block]

Why the fuck would progressive countries in the Americas want to be saddled with the warped morally degenerate US?

A say in US affairs and foreign policy? I'm sure there would be plenty of South American countries that would jump to be part of an union that gave them a better chance to influence American drug laws, immigration policy, foreign policy, etc.

What exactly would the people ruling the US get out of an American Union that they couldn't strong arm other American countries into giving them anyway?

What would anyone in the US get out of it?

[Ralin]

What would anyone in the US get out of it?

Some sort of international court that could overrule Congress when they make bad decisions on the above?

Yeah, I know, it's not going to happen.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Why the fuck would progressive countries in the Americas want to be saddled with the warped morally degenerate US?

A say in US affairs and foreign policy? I'm sure there would be plenty of South American countries that would jump to be part of an union that gave them a better chance to influence American drug laws, immigration policy, foreign policy, etc.

What exactly would the people ruling the US get out of an American Union that they couldn't strong arm other American countries into giving them anyway?

What would anyone in the US get out of it?

Better question: Why would anyone want the US in it? The US already tries to control everyone, no good reason to give them even more leverage.

[Borgholio]

Let's look at what the EU grants it's members that they don't have individually and see if any of that can apply to the Americas.

Take Germany, for example. They have always had a powerful economy and a strong work ethic. What have they gained or lost as a result of being part of the EU?

[Simon_Jester]

While it could be argued that having the US join an American Union is a good thing, too many people will knee-jerk about the "loss of our sovereignty and freedoms" and it'll never happen.

Actually, I think the reverse is more of a problem.

The main issue with a North American Union is that the US is larger physically and economically than all other countries on the continent put together, so it would quickly devolve into the American Empire. Or, more to the point, any other countries thinking of joining would expect it to become the American Empire.

As a bonus topic, apply this to areas such as Africa, South Asia, and the South Pacific.

In any of these areas it would make some amount of sense. South America and Southeast Asia/Oceania are obvious candidates, if they ever calm down on the nationalist issue, which will probably take 100-150 years if Europe is any guide.

The main problem Africa would have is that nearly all the countries in the region are very poor, and have little to share each other to solve common problems.

[Ralin]

Actually, I think the reverse is more of a problem.

The main issue with a North American Union is that the US is larger physically and economically than all other countries on the continent put together, so it would quickly devolve into the American Empire. Or, more to the point, any other countries thinking of joining would expect it to become the American Empire.

These are both very good reasons why an American Union would not happen.

[Simon_Jester]

The same argument applies to, say, an "East Asian Union;" it'd wind up being dominated by China.

[Ahriman238]

Ooh! We could all it the North American Alliance or NAA, just as long as we fused our federal law enforcement agencies into NEMA before 2098. What could go wrong?

Sarcasm aside, wasn't providing the benefits of EU membership without ceding national sovereignty what NAFTA tried and failed to do? And yes, the US is enough of an economical powerhouse with a substantial population, I'd expect us to dominate any such group until it become 'America and friends.' Assuming we could get it past all the people who'd scream over how we'd lose our voice among the dirty foreigners.

[Phantasee]

Please note it's not just the US in the Americas. I wonder what Mexico, Brazil or Canada would say to such an idea.

Thing is, I could see them hammering something out, while my country would be the self-entitled, greedy, obstructionist, John-Wayne wannabe asshole that it always is.

Oh absolutely I agree that it would probably be Murica that messes things up, but it's worth remembering other countries do exist.

Although, as Grumman said, I can't see Canada joining the US in anything other than the UN, and I can't see either of them dealing with Mexico. As for South America, I don't know, but I suspect none of them woudl be too interested in such a union either.

Canada has joined the USA in NORAD, NATO, the UN, APEC, OAS, OECD, NAFTA, G8, G10, G20, IMF, World Bank, WTO, WHO, UNESCO, and the IOC, among others.

We also joined the Allies in WWII of our own accord.

We wouldn't join in a political union with the USA because we would gain nothing. That's why you will continue to see close economic interdependence and some common ground on foreign policy, but no moves to create a single currency, or a political entity either as a superstructure over our current federal governments or some sort of fusion of our federal governments.

[Phantasee]

PS Write Obama to approve the Keystone XL pipeline, my American friends. That's all we need from you right now, above and beyond our existing commitments to each other as friends and neighbours.

[Highlord Laan]

PS Write Obama to approve the Keystone XL pipeline, my American friends. That's all we need from you right now, above and beyond our existing commitments to each other as friends and neighbours.

Quite a few of us would like to. Sadly, the same inbred pack of corn-fed retards that stand in the way of any progress in the name of FREEDUMS are staying true to form in this state. One group of people in one or two counties are holding back an agreement made by two sovereign nations, because rugged individualism.

I seriously hope Trans Canada goes for the throat and pulls imminent domain on the sniveling little shits, just so I can enjoy their incoherent shrieking.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Canada has joined the USA in NORAD, NATO, the UN, APEC, OAS, OECD, NAFTA, G8, G10, G20, IMF, World Bank, WTO, WHO, UNESCO, and the IOC, among others.

We also joined the Allies in WWII of our own accord.

We wouldn't join in a political union with the USA because we would gain nothing. That's why you will continue to see close economic interdependence and some common ground on foreign policy, but no moves to create a single currency, or a political entity either as a superstructure over our current federal governments or some sort of fusion of our federal governments.

OK, bad example about Canada only joining the US in the UN. Still, a North American Union wouldn't happen, since it appears no one wants it and theres no benefit.

[Phantasee]

PS Write Obama to approve the Keystone XL pipeline, my American friends. That's all we need from you right now, above and beyond our existing commitments to each other as friends and neighbours.

Quite a few of us would like to. Sadly, the same inbred pack of corn-fed retards that stand in the way of any progress in the name of FREEDUMS are staying true to form in this state. One group of people in one or two counties are holding back an agreement made by two sovereign nations, because rugged individualism.

I seriously hope Trans Canada goes for the throat and pulls imminent domain on the sniveling little shits, just so I can enjoy their incoherent shrieking.

No, it's pretty much just the anti-science environmentalist lobby influencing leftist Democrats, who are threatening Obama.

TransCanada can't pull eminent domain because the hold up is with Obama. State has to approve the pipeline since it crosses a national border, and they've been told to go back and do more consultations (likely stacked with "environmentalists" aka lobbyists for US oil producers) and write more reports. Basically "go back until you give me the politically easy answer".

He's spineless on this issue and wrong. The pipeline doesn't get approved, and you'll continue to see the massive expansion of the oil by rail industry which isn't very well regulated on either side of the border and is very risky relative to the proven security of a pipeline.