Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25808437
Japan protest over Korean assassin Ahn Jung-geun memorial in China

Japan has criticised a memorial built in China to commemorate a Korean independence activist who assassinated a prominent Japanese statesman in 1909.

Ahn Jung-geun shot dead Hirobumi Ito, four-time prime minister of Japan and the first resident governor of then Japanese-run Korea.

A Japanese government spokesman branded him a "terrorist" after the Chinese-Korean memorial hall opened in China's Harbin city, where Ito was shot.

He is celebrated as a hero in Korea.

"The co-ordinated move by China and South Korea based on a one-sided view [of history] is not conducive to building peace and stability," Yoshihide Suga told reporters.

But China said that Ahn was a "famous anti-Japanese high-minded person" and South Korea's foreign ministry said Ahn was a "widely respected figure", describing the assassination as a "courageous act", the AFP news agency reports.

Yasukuni controversy

All parties in the row have tried to adopt the mantle of diplomacy.

South Korea's foreign ministry said it hoped the museum would "set the path for genuine peace and co-operation based on correct historical awareness".

Mr Suga, on the other hand, said the "extremely regrettable" monument was "not contributing to building peace and cooperative relations in this region".

The Ahn memorial is just the latest act to lay bare the acrimonious legacy of Japan's occupations of China and the Korean peninsula, which took place in the first half of last century and resonate to this day.

He was hanged for killing Ito but decades later he was awarded a prestigious civil decoration in South Korea for his efforts for Korean independence and there are many memorials to him there.

The row comes after Shinzo Abe was condemned by China and South Korea for visiting the Yasukuni shrine that honours Japan's war dead, including some convicted war criminals.

Mr Abe insisted that he visited the shrine in a personal capacity and also to pledge that "never again will people suffer in war".

Nevertheless alarm has been growing in recent months over deteriorating relations between China, Japan and South Korea, who are also embroiled in a number of disputes over territory in the East China Sea.
Now if only Chinese and Korean leaders visit the memorial in a "personal capacity" while holding office and mouth some high minded sounding words. Every year.

Next either Korea or China or both build a sculpture showing a gigantic mushroom cloud signifying end of WWII and leaders pledging "never again will people suffer in war" while visiting this sculpture. Ok, not going to happen, but it would hilariously funny if it did. I mean Japan is still butt sore about the nukes so much that BBC had to apologise in 2011 after Stephen Fry and guests made Hiroshima and Nagasacki nuke jokes on QI.

Waits for people to shout but its wrong for certain sides but not mine to raise tensions like the last time.
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Yasukuni Shrine a memorial to all of Japan's war dead throughout history, of which the war criminals are a very small minority? I find it hard to get outraged over that given that we have things like Rememberance Day here (US has Veteran's day?) and we don't make exceptions for the atrocities in the Boer War or things like Agent Orange.

Japan's issues with its past are a separate matter from that imo.

On the memorial to Ahn Jung-geun all sides need to grow up. Half the time relations between Japan, Korea and China look like children arguing and points scoring.
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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Sharp-kun wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Yasukuni Shrine a memorial to all of Japan's war dead throughout history, of which the war criminals are a very small minority? I find it hard to get outraged over that given that we have things like Rememberance Day here (US has Veteran's day?) and we don't make exceptions for the atrocities in the Boer War or things like Agent Orange.

Japan's issues with its past are a separate matter from that imo.
The War criminals were deliberately dug up and reburied at Yasukuni for the purpose of honoring them. There is nothing stopping Japanese leaders going to some other shrine without war criminals. Or revisiting the Yasukuni shrine if its private owners change their minds and get rid of the war criminals. So if you believe that its just honoring the non war criminals.. well lets just say I know where one billion dollars is hidden and I am willing to share it with you, if you first give me most of your life savings so I can fund a trip to retrieve this money. Please donate now.

Oh, and I am sure if Merkel started honouring Hitler no one in the UK would object. No sirree. Its only bad when Asians do it. Got the memo now.
Sharp-kun wrote: On the memorial to Ahn Jung-geun all sides need to grow up. Half the time relations between Japan, Korea and China look like children arguing and points scoring.
Ah, ignoring the mistakes of history and war crimes is failure to grow up. I will note for next time when Nazi hunters drag some old sod to face their crimes. Maybe Israel should have grown up and just left Adolf Eichmann alone too.

Or maybe only by acknowledging the mistakes of the past completely can we fully move onto the future without the historical baggage holding us back.
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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mr friendly guy wrote:The War criminals were deliberately dug up and reburied at Yasukuni for the purpose of honoring them.
Fair enough, conceded. My understanding was it was just a general shrine to all war dead.
mr friendly guy wrote: Ah, ignoring the mistakes of history and war crimes is failure to grow up. I will note for next time when Nazi hunters drag some old sod to face their crimes. Maybe Israel should have grown up and just left Adolf Eichmann alone too.

Or maybe only by acknowledging the mistakes of the past completely can we fully move onto the future without the historical baggage holding us back.
My point was that I look at it and see Japan being dicks about one thing and the others responding in kind. Is this memorial to Ahn Jung-geun legitimatly as they think he was a cool guy who deserves to be honored or is it just to piss of Japan? If the first, go right ahead. If the 2nd, grow up and stop stooping to their level.
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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Can you feel the BBC slant? Ahn Jung-geun is now an "assassin", instead of "Korean freedom fighter".

Colonialist racist motherfuckers all.
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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mr friendly guy wrote:Ah, ignoring the mistakes of history and war crimes is failure to grow up. I will note for next time when Nazi hunters drag some old sod to face their crimes. Maybe Israel should have grown up and just left Adolf Eichmann alone too.
Don't think there any left that were significant . . . . Only a few fresh faced kids who work in the concentration and death camps are left alive.
Maybe one could try a corpse or a skeleton?
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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Kitsune wrote:
mr friendly guy wrote:Ah, ignoring the mistakes of history and war crimes is failure to grow up. I will note for next time when Nazi hunters drag some old sod to face their crimes. Maybe Israel should have grown up and just left Adolf Eichmann alone too.
Don't think there any left that were significant . . . . Only a few fresh faced kids who work in the concentration and death camps are left alive.
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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I am sure China's stance would be different concerning Tibetian or Uygher freedom fighters. One sides heros are often the others villains. Why Japan would be surprised or care about this is beyond me.
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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Thanas wrote:
Kitsune wrote:
mr friendly guy wrote:Ah, ignoring the mistakes of history and war crimes is failure to grow up. I will note for next time when Nazi hunters drag some old sod to face their crimes. Maybe Israel should have grown up and just left Adolf Eichmann alone too.
Don't think there any left that were significant . . . . Only a few fresh faced kids who work in the concentration and death camps are left alive.
Google Alois Brunner and Helmut Oberlander.
I was wrong. . . .Sorry :oops:
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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Sharp-kun wrote:My point was that I look at it and see Japan being dicks about one thing and the others responding in kind. Is this memorial to Ahn Jung-geun legitimatly as they think he was a cool guy who deserves to be honored or is it just to piss of Japan? If the first, go right ahead. If the 2nd, grow up and stop stooping to their level.
While he undoubtedly isn't known well outside of East Asia, a quick search will note that contemporaries in Korea and China who were also struggling against Japanese aggression at the time praised him. Going on SK posthumously awarded him medals in 1962 and built a memorial hall for him in 1970. So I would say some people in SK and China clearly do think he was a big deal who deserved to be honoured. The fact it pisses off Japan is most probably the icing on the cake.
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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Well, the Japanese would have grounds to complain, if Ahn was the Korean equivalent of Heinrich Himmler or Hideki Tojo, which he isn't.
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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Sharp-kun wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Yasukuni Shrine a memorial to all of Japan's war dead throughout history, of which the war criminals are a very small minority? I find it hard to get outraged over that given that we have things like Rememberance Day here (US has Veteran's day?) and we don't make exceptions for the atrocities in the Boer War or things like Agent Orange.

Japan's issues with its past are a separate matter from that imo.

On the memorial to Ahn Jung-geun all sides need to grow up. Half the time relations between Japan, Korea and China look like children arguing and points scoring.
Japan certainly does view visiting the Yasukuni Shrine as a shrine honouring her dead. However, the history of the shrine is not conducive to this, as its a relic of Imperial Japan celebration of imperial actions and the subsequent deliberate enshrinement of war criminals.

Look. This isn't a 'Rememberance day memorial' where you celebrate all the dead who fought for the US. Its not an Unknown Soldier. There's actually a shrine nearby which fulfills that role.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinreisha

This is a shrine which deifies Japanese heroes. Heroes which include war criminals. Imagine if Germany had created a war memorial celebrating the sacrifices of her soldiers, elevating them to demi-gods and it includes one person like Bismarck......... and then tens of Nazis like Himmler, Hitler and Goering. Are you going to say that oooh,it includes Bismarck, so, honouring the shrine is a okay? Now, throw in some more history such as the IJA deliberately using that shrine to celebrate war criminals as part of its militaristic, imperial past.

So.......... No.
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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Some governments have destroyed the remains of individuals or used other methods to ensure that the remains did not become a shrine. For example the US dumped OBL's body in the sea while the allies cremated Goring and other Nazi War criminals and scattered the ashes into the Conwentzbach River. So its clear that distaste for shrines dedicated to scum bags also occurs in the West. Yet we see only few Western politicians willing to point this out about Japan.

Although I hear they will walk out of speeches given by leaders who start waxing Zionist conspiracies, not once but twice. Clearly racist conspiracy theories are more offensive than deification of racist murderers. How could I fail to see that?
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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PainRack wrote:This is a shrine which deifies Japanese heroes. Heroes which include war criminals. Imagine if Germany had created a war memorial celebrating the sacrifices of her soldiers, elevating them to demi-gods and it includes one person like Bismarck......... and then tens of Nazis like Himmler, Hitler and Goering. Are you going to say that oooh,it includes Bismarck, so, honouring the shrine is a okay? Now, throw in some more history such as the IJA deliberately using that shrine to celebrate war criminals as part of its militaristic, imperial past.
The grave of Michael Wittmann "The Black Baron" is treated like a shrine and he was definitely a Nazi and was in the SS
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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People who praise Wittman are probably just sore neo- or cryptonazis.
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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Kitsune wrote:
PainRack wrote:This is a shrine which deifies Japanese heroes. Heroes which include war criminals. Imagine if Germany had created a war memorial celebrating the sacrifices of her soldiers, elevating them to demi-gods and it includes one person like Bismarck......... and then tens of Nazis like Himmler, Hitler and Goering. Are you going to say that oooh,it includes Bismarck, so, honouring the shrine is a okay? Now, throw in some more history such as the IJA deliberately using that shrine to celebrate war criminals as part of its militaristic, imperial past.
The grave of Michael Wittmann "The Black Baron" is treated like a shrine and he was definitely a Nazi and was in the SS
Was Michael Wittmann a war criminal? No?

The shrine contains a thousandwar criminals enshrined in it. Granted, there IS the problem of victor justice............
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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Wittmann was already dead when the trials were running. He was a member of a criminal organization and the only people who treat him like a god (and leave glowing comments on youtube, etc) are neo-nazi freaks. Others don't go to La Cambe to just "worship" a great Nazi tanksman. The Japanese shrine doesn't just contain low-level criminals but high-ranking bastards too.

Wittmann's grave was not specifically made a neo-nazi pilgrimage place; it just happened to be one, since dead high-rank Nazis were disposed of precisely not to make shrines for neonazis. On the other hand Japan specifically buried war criminals there to glorify them. To this day Japan tries to paint itself a victim due to the atomic bombings completely ignoring the holocaust it unleashed on entire South-East Asia.
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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I fail to see how Wittmann is in any way comparable to the Japanese shrine. He was a tank commander - a great one, but still a relatively low level officer. A (willing) cog in the machine, but just a cog nonetheless.

The Japanese shrine has Tojo, the prime minister, Itagaki, the war minister and several generals. How does Wittmann reach to that level?
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Re: Japan fails to understand irony - Ahn Jung-geun memorial

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He doesn't, and more to the point - his grave in La Combe is just a grave. No shrine. Merkel doesn't go there to praise him.
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