Selling your superannuation on Ebay

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mr friendly guy
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Selling your superannuation on Ebay

Post by mr friendly guy »

Ok, so superannuation in Australia is similar (although I have been told with some differences to the US 401k). Its basically money the government puts aside for us from our earnings to help us when we retire. This is done since we generally are not big savers.
http://www.news.com.au/finance/superann ... 6819800986

AN ADELAIDE man has posted a peculiar listing on eBay Australia, auctioning off his future superannuation payout with a lucrative 'double your money' offer.
Daniel King, who uses the eBay username rachybabe302013, lists his product as 'My Superannuation Investment - Double your Money'.
King posted the item at 9pm on Wednesday night and the auction was set to run for nine days. The starting bid is listed at $1.00, with no bids so far, yet it has had 180 views.
The condition of the item is listed as "New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item. See the seller's listing for full details."
The 31-year-old father of three who lives with his partner in Adelaide, says he set up the auction to earn money to provide his children with a better start in life.
"I work full-time in a senior management role with long-term job security," King wrote. "The main motivating reason for me auctioning off part of my super is to provide my children with the start in life that I didn't have as a young man ie. higher education uni etc.
"The other factor is I want myself and my family to be able to enjoy the finest things in life while we are in 'the best times of our life' raising children, providing and giving us all the things we want."

In the description of the Super offer, King has written the following:
"You are bidding on a unique never before seen opportunity to purchase my Super when I retire at 65 years old.
"How it works: what ever the final bid is at the end of this auction is, I will double it and you will be entitled to the money when I retire. For example: If the winning bid is say $10,000 you will get $20,000 when I retire at 65. It's that simple.
"All legal documents will be signed with a solicitor to the winning bidder, the transaction will be strictly private and confidential."
News.com.au spoke exclusively to King, and asked him how he came up with the idea.
"I was looking up ways to invest money in self-managed funds," King said. "I thought of all the weird things that had been sold on eBay, and did a search to see whether anyone had tried to sell part of their Superannuation investment.

No one had, so King decided to be the first, after checking the idea with a friend studying Law, who gave him the all clear. King plans on talking to a qualified solicitor about further legalities before the listing finishes.
"You wait your whole life to get your superannuation and I thought, why wait? It would be nice to have cash to invest now."
King said that his 15-year-old daughter will soon finish school and begin university.
"It would be nice to have money to pay for her fees," he told news.com.au. "A degree costs about $20,000."

On late Thursday afternoon the listing was removed from eBay by eBay officials.
"Listings that don't offer an item for sale are not allowed," said eBay in a statement to news.com.au. "This includes listings that are blank, do not require a purchase, or that were created to promote anything other than the item for sale."
But King immediately relisted his super online, albeit with a few changes to suit eBay's policy.
He isn't the first Adelaidian to attempt to sell a strange item on eBay. Last month another Adelaide man advertised an all-expenses paid, night out on the town with himself, reaching $10,000.
King informs eBay buyers that his current super is at $30,000 and an online calculator predicts he will have $260,000 in his pocket when he retires.
So if one lucky punter bids $130,000 now, they could win everything ... in 32 years. Talk about delayed gratification.
This offering by King follows a series of equally bizarre eBay listings including Scarlett Johansson's used tissue, Niall from One Direction's half eaten Vegemite toast, Ian Usher's life and belongings, Big Brother winner Tim Dormer's wisdom teeth, the identity of street artist Banksy, and a Victorian woman who attempted to sell her children on eBay.
So basically if I bid X amount of dollars he will double it, provided his superannuation can cover it. Since they predict a pay out of $260,000, $130,000 would be the maximum bid.

Now I am no financial genius, but this strikes me as a losing proposition because of inflation.

http://www.rateinflation.com/inflation- ... -year=2014

Using Australia's inflation rates, for the last 10 years our average is 2.73%. Now there is no guarantee that our reserve bank will keep things in that range, but generally the lower the inflation rate, the more benefit we will receive. Even assuming this man retires at 65 with no loss of income etc, it simply wouldn't match inflation.

For example compounded annually a rate of 2.7% for 34 years, $10,000 would increase by 2.47 times that by the time he retires. In other words, you would be losing money. In fact putting the money in a bank which surpasses inflation (albeit slightly) would give you more return. Of course if inflation drops really low, then this might be worth it.

In fact, for this to break even, Australia's inflation rate would have to be about 2%.

Working displayed below. Please correct me if my maths is wrong, its been a while.
Spoiler
Let P be the principle I bid for this man's ebay item.
Assume inflation is 2.7% until he retires in 2048

Value of my investment at year 2048 = P(1.027)^34 =2.47 P( 3 sf)

Going on, to match his doubling of your principle, the inflation rate would be...

At year 2048, assume x is the amount compounded annually
2P = P(X)^34
2 = X^34
Taking logorithms
Ln 2 =34 Ln X
Ln X = ( Ln 2) /34
X =1.02

Or inflation must be 2%
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

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And then you are not even considering death...
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

Post by Jaepheth »

It'd be a terrible investment for any potential buyer. Particularly because it's so far away from payout.

A 2 second Google search reveals that banks are already offering, through CDs, the paltry ~2% APY he's offering, and those are virtually risk free.
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

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He's offering it because he expects someone to be enough of a rube that they'll pay one dollar today for two dollars in 35 years... while being quite certain that he himself can take money and more than double it in 35 years.
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

Post by mr friendly guy »

His ebay listing

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221368975821?

9 days left and someone has already put in $305 AUD. I wonder what would happen if someone were to write that it would be a shitty investment in the questions section? Something like, according to my calculations, for this to break even the inflation rate must be at least 2%. Australia's historical inflation for the past 10 years has been 2.73%. What do you believe Australia's inflation rate would be on average for the next 34 years? :D
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

Post by General Zod »

This really seems like the sort of thing this guy should have consulted with a lawyer about before even placing the auction. How is this legal? More importantly, how is it enforceable?
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

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Who says he didn't consult a lawyer?
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

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Simon_Jester wrote:Who says he didn't consult a lawyer?
King plans on talking to a qualified solicitor about further legalities before the listing finishes.
Seems to imply that he hasn't talked to one yet. Looking on FindLaw isn't really adequate for something like this, I'd think.
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

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Gack. Missed that line.
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

Post by B5B7 »

Simply looked at from the investment viewpoint, this is a very bad offer to accept. He's 31, the doubled payout is when he is 65, which is 34 years. Putting aside the issue of his mortality, 33 x 3 is 99, which means at 3% simple interest per year one could double their investment.

However, one would invest at compound interest which pays out more. Also since this is equivalent to a fixed term, very long time no withdrawal investment, one could get much better interest.
So, it is a rotten deal that anyone would be crazy to accept.
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

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He says that he "consulted a friend studying law".
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

Post by General Zod »

The Xeelee wrote:He says that he "consulted a friend studying law".
I don't know how it works in Australia, but in most countries talking to a law student for legal advice can land you in some seriously hot water. Which really brings me back to my original question of how it's legal, and if it is how would you even go about enforcing it?
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

Post by General Zod »

PS - for the slow people I don't really care who he talked to, I'm more interested in the actual laws involved.
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

Post by aerius »

This is how you find out who slept through high school math. Fucking brilliant.
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

Post by mr friendly guy »

I suspect a lot of people don't understand compounding or how to use logarithms. This is the first time for a while where I had to use that knowledge in regards to a pure financial problem. Usually I see people make ignorant statements about GDP growth because they don't realise simple things like 8% growth leads to doubling every 9 years, something one can work out easily with "the rule of 72."
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

Post by aerius »

mr friendly guy wrote:I suspect a lot of people don't understand compounding or how to use logarithms.
I work for a credit union. I would be shocked if more than 1% of our customers understood compounding, hell, half my co-workers don't and we're bankers ffs.
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

Post by The Xeelee »

There has been an attempted (and thwarted) plane hijacking.
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

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...Did you post that in the right thread?
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

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The Xeelee wrote:There has been an attempted (and thwarted) plane hijacking.
This has been an attempted (and successful) thread hijacking.
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Re: Selling your superannuation on Ebay

Post by The Xeelee »

Oops I didn't mean to post it in this thread! I have now put it in the correct one.
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