Oh the hypocrisy....

[Thanas]

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2014/02/0 ... versation/

Top U.S. diplomat launches f-bomb on EU in leaked recorded conversation

By Elise Labott

A leaked audio recording of a phone call allegedly catches the top U.S. diplomat to Europe working on a behind-the-scenes deal to end the Ukrainian political turmoil, and using profanity to express strong frustrations with inaction and indecision by the European Union in resolving the crisis.

In the conversation, voices closely resembling those of Assistant Secretary for European Affairs Victoria Nuland and U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt discuss a plan to broker a deal between the Ukrainian government and the opposition.

At one point the woman, who sounds like Nuland, can be heard saying "f**k the EU."

The recording was uploaded on YouTube on February 4 by an anonymous user named "Maidan Puppets," and had been viewed more than 11,000 times as of Thursday. The name of the user appears to be a reference to Maidan Square in Kiev, where protestors have fought the government and Russian accusations that the protestors are puppets of the West. The call also was posted on the Kyiv Post, a leading Ukrainian newspaper.

The call cannot be independently verified and it is unclear when or where it was recorded.

State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki declined to speak about the details of a private conversation, but did not say the call was inauthentic.

The U.S. is pointing a finger at Russian involvement in the matter of the leaked call. Russia has accused the U.S. in meddling in Ukraininan affairs, and U.S officials suggested Moscow likely tapped Nuland and Pyatt's phone conversation and leaked it out of concern about a potential deal between the government and the opposition

Although she said she didn't have independent detail about the origin of the YouTube video, Psaki said the fact the recording was first tweeted out by an employee in Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin's office was an "indication" they played a role.

"Certainly we think this is a new low in Russian trade-craft," Psaki said, using a term that refers to a nation state's espionage activities. "This is something they've been actively promoting, posting on."

The conversation appears to address Ukranian President Viktor Yanukovych's January 25 offer of a power-sharing deal with opposition leader Arseniy Yatseniuk as prime minister and Vitaly Klitschko as deputy prime minister in a new national unity government. Both men refused Yanukovych's offer.

The woman sounding like Nuland says, "I don't think it's necessary, I don't think it's a good idea," for Klitschko to have a role in the government, adding that she favors Yatseniuk to be the new prime minister.

"I think Yats (Yatseniuk) is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience," Nuland says, according to the recording.

The man sounding like Pratt refers to Vitali Klitschko as the "top dog" among opposition leaders, but suggests Klitschko is too inexperienced to hold a top government post.

"Yeah ... I guess ... in terms of him not going into the government, just let him sort of stay out and do his political homework and stuff," he says. "I'm just thinking in terms of sort of the process moving ahead, we want to keep the moderate democrats together."

Referring to a perceived lack of pressure by the European Union in putting pressure on President Yanukovych, Nuland tells Pratt she has spoken to the United Nations, and that Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon agreed to send someone to broker the discussions.

"That would be great to help glue this thing and to have the U.N. help glue it," Nuland said. "And you know, f**k the EU."

"Exactly," Pyatt replies. "And I think we got to do something to make it stick together, because you can be sure that if it does start to gain altitude the Russians will be working behind the scenes to torpedo it. Let me work on Klitschko, and I think we should get a Western personality to come out here (to Ukraine) and midwife this thing."

"I think we are in play," Pyatt adds.

The recording ends with Nuland saying she can get likely get Vice President Joseph Biden to make a phone call, presumably to Yanukovych "for an atta-boy and to get the deeds to stick." Biden has talked to Yanukovych by telephone at least four times in the last month.

The State Department's Psaki said, "It is no secret that Ambassador Pyatt and Assistant Secretary Nuland have been working with the government of Ukraine, with the opposition, with business and civil society leaders to support their efforts, and it shouldn't be a surprise that at any point there have been discussions about recent events and offers and what is happening on the ground."

She added that Nuland had apologized to her EU counterparts.

Maja Kocijancic, a spokesperson for EU foreign policy chief Cathy Ashton, told CNN, "The EU is engaged in helping the people of Ukraine through the current political crisis. We don't comment on alleged leaked telephone conversations."

Well, nice to know the USA is not the only one taping everything.

[Sea Skimmer]

Of course it isn't, anyone who thought otherwise is an idiot. The German navy doesn't have dedicated ELINT ships cruising around to do nothing ect..

More interesting is the fact that the Russians choose to give up such a well placed bug to score quick political points. That shows just how concerned they are about loosing influence in the Ukraine that they would loose a valuable long term source of information for this. That sort of thing doesn't happen often in the spy game.


Hell Germany openly operates spy ships, something not so many other people do.

[Thanas]

Of course it isn't, anyone who thought otherwise is an idiot. The German navy doesn't have dedicated ELINT ships cruising around to do nothing ect..

Yeah because the small 25+ year old Oste-class is in any way comparable to the NSA budget....laughable comparison.

[Simon_Jester]

Does "the US spends vastly more money on spying on everyone than most other countries" negate "lots of countries spy?"

[Scrib]

Does "the US spends vastly more money on spying on everyone than most other countries" negate "lots of countries spy?"

Depends on whether the extra money is going towards an especially dangerous new form of spying. So most likely...no. Assuming that we're speaking about some "greater" good beyond each nation's self-serving posturing when faced with a superior espionage apparatus.

As for the hypocrisy? Yeah? Should we expect anything else?

[Broomstick]

I find is amusing that the technology that has largely wiped out privacy for the ordinary citizen is now starting to erode secrecy for nations.

[fgalkin]

I find is amusing that the technology that has largely wiped out privacy for the ordinary citizen is now starting to erode secrecy for nations.

It's the other way around. All of the technology developed to wipe out privacy was created to spy on nations.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Broomstick]

Yes, but it seems to be getting harder to keep secrets - stuff keeps getting loose. Although this last one seems a deliberate leak.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

Does "the US spends vastly more money on spying on everyone than most other countries" negate "lots of countries spy?"

No, but it does negate "well it ain't nothing special". How many times do we have to go through the same debate before people can stop asking what's the color of the sky?

[Irbis]

The conversation appears to address Ukranian President Viktor Yanukovych's January 25 offer of a power-sharing deal with opposition leader Arseniy Yatseniuk as prime minister and Vitaly Klitschko as deputy prime minister in a new national unity government. Both men refused Yanukovych's offer.

The woman sounding like Nuland says, "I don't think it's necessary, I don't think it's a good idea," for Klitschko to have a role in the government, adding that she favors Yatseniuk to be the new prime minister.

"I think Yats (Yatseniuk) is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience," Nuland says, according to the recording.

The man sounding like Pratt refers to Vitali Klitschko as the "top dog" among opposition leaders, but suggests Klitschko is too inexperienced to hold a top government post.

"Yeah ... I guess ... in terms of him not going into the government, just let him sort of stay out and do his political homework and stuff," he says. "I'm just thinking in terms of sort of the process moving ahead, we want to keep the moderate democrats together."

"Exactly," Pyatt replies. "And I think we got to do something to make it stick together, because you can be sure that if it does start to gain altitude the Russians will be working behind the scenes to torpedo it. Let me work on Klitschko, and I think we should get a Western personality to come out here (to Ukraine) and midwife this thing."

"I think we are in play," Pyatt adds.

Fair and balanced view in Western media on the dissent in Ukraine: weak influence by Russia is evil, while much more strong-arm tactic from US is ignored as autocratic propaganda and dismissed.

Anyway, EU is right, trying to repeat 2004 is only going to make even less Ukrainians believe in democracy, especially with hand picking of who gets to be "our bastard".

[Thanas]

Fair and balanced view in Western media on the dissent in Ukraine: weak influence by Russia is evil, while much more strong-arm tactic from US is ignored as autocratic propaganda and dismissed.

Anyway, EU is right, trying to repeat 2004 is only going to make even less Ukrainians believe in democracy, especially with hand picking of who gets to be "our bastard".

Yeah, especially if he does not enjoy popular support.

Honestly, might be best for the country to just be split up.

[Kane Starkiller]

Helping the opposition to politically organize is not really the same as open threats made by Russia over Ukraine EU deal: calling it "suicidal" (assisted suicide?), introducing harsher border checks etc.

The leaked conversation doesn't really reveal any heinous actions by US in any case: talk of who they would prefer as leader of the opposition (which has genuine popular support), getting the UN involved etc. The only embarrassment is the disparaging remark about EU which, in context, refers to EU relative inaction regarding the entire Ukraine crisis.

[Flagg]

I know I give Thanas shit for being "raaaaar! Obama bad!" a lot, but we totally had this coming. I just wish it hadn't been the Russians who did it, but oh well.

[Enigma]

I know I give Thanas shit for being "raaaaar! Obama bad!" a lot, but we totally had this coming. I just wish it hadn't been the Russians who did it, but oh well.

Better a well known adversary, with experience in doing this than a small laughable country like NK.

I wonder when politicians or other important officials will realize that unless they can insure their privacy, anything they say no matter what or where they say it will likely be leaked out.

[Tribble]

Every country in the world has espionage agencies whose specific role is to violate laws (whether it's their own country or another's) in order to eliminate what they and/or the government perceives to be threats. Anybody who seriously thinks that the law will stop the government from spying on them are just deluding themselves.

[Flagg]

I know I give Thanas shit for being "raaaaar! Obama bad!" a lot, but we totally had this coming. I just wish it hadn't been the Russians who did it, but oh well.

Better a well known adversary, with experience in doing this than a small laughable country like NK.

I wonder when politicians or other important officials will realize that unless they can insure their privacy, anything they say no matter what or where they say it will likely be leaked out.

Well it's getting to the point (and it's gonna be worse once quantum computing becomes cheaper and more prevalent and we can figure out how to program them better) where our officials are gonna need to meet in person in basements with music playing like in the fucking Sopranos.

[Irbis]

I know I give Thanas shit for being "raaaaar! Obama bad!" a lot, but we totally had this coming. I just wish it hadn't been the Russians who did it, but oh well.

Okay, honest question here. How do we know it was Russia? Besides the word of oh-so-truthful people involved? Ukraine had excellent reason, too, not only Yanukowych gets to tar the opposition but also shifts all the blame to Putin weakening his position in crisis, making the whole affair triple win-win for him?

Helping the opposition to politically organize is not really the same as open threats made by Russia over Ukraine EU deal: calling it "suicidal" (assisted suicide?), introducing harsher border checks etc.

They talk about more than that. They want EU to impose sanctions (much broader than Russian ones), EU border checks are already much worse that Russian "threats" - even talk about background pressure on Ukrainian president. This is no different than methods Russians use, except Putin has much smaller 'stick' so to say.

The leaked conversation doesn't really reveal any heinous actions by US in any case: talk of who they would prefer as leader of the opposition (which has genuine popular support), getting the UN involved etc.

They pretty much said they don't want more popular opposition leader in government at all, not even in minor role. This is shitting on half of the opposition preferring him. At least Yanukowych was genuinely elected, not picked by foreign country.

[Flagg]

I know I give Thanas shit for being "raaaaar! Obama bad!" a lot, but we totally had this coming. I just wish it hadn't been the Russians who did it, but oh well.

Okay, honest question here. How do we know it was Russia? Besides the word of oh-so-truthful people involved? Ukraine had excellent reason, too, not only Yanukowych gets to tar the opposition but also shifts all the blame to Putin weakening his position in crisis, making the whole affair triple win-win for him?

Well it's just an assumption based on the fact that it was a Russian official who posted it according to the article. If I'm wrong and it was the Ukrainians then I'm wrong and it was them. I'd rather it were the Ukrainians tbh.

[Thanas]

They talk about more than that. They want EU to impose sanctions (much broader than Russian ones), EU border checks are already much worse that Russian "threats" - even talk about background pressure on Ukrainian president. This is no different than methods Russians use, except Putin has much smaller 'stick' so to say.

I don't know if the US is flying in personnel to torture activists.....

[Irbis]

I don't know if the US is flying in personnel to torture activists.....

I read that too, but so far, it had all been allegations by right wing protesters. Weak ones, at that, half of Ukraine uses good Russian as primary language. Had any actual mercenary personnel sent by Putin had been found for real, and I did miss it? I didn't look at the news past few days.

[Thanas]

I don't know if the US is flying in personnel to torture activists.....

I read that too, but so far, it had all been allegations by right wing protesters. Weak ones, at that, half of Ukraine uses good Russian as primary language. Had any actual mercenary personnel sent by Putin had been found for real, and I did miss it? I didn't look at the news past few days.

Well, the guy who got his ear sliced off seemed to be pretty credible to me. In any case, I hardly think the US carries the same clout in that area of the world as Russia does.

[fgalkin]

I don't know if the US is flying in personnel to torture activists.....

I read that too, but so far, it had all been allegations by right wing protesters. Weak ones, at that, half of Ukraine uses good Russian as primary language. Had any actual mercenary personnel sent by Putin had been found for real, and I did miss it? I didn't look at the news past few days.

Well, the guy who got his ear sliced off seemed to be pretty credible to me. In any case, I hardly think the US carries the same clout in that area of the world as Russia does.

I find the claim laughable, as Ukraine doesn't need Russia's help in torturing anyone, they have the exact same standards of training for all its personnel as Russia, as both came out of the Soviet system. There is nothing that Putin can offer that they cannot do themselves.

Have a very nice day
-fgalkin

[werehawk]

Delurking to add something relevant...

Why the hell were both U.S. Diplomats using unencrypted cellphones? One would think that being right next to Russia which is just itching to get dirt on the U.S. the State Department would at least be issuing its senior diplomats secure and encrypted cell phones.

From Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/ ... E120140207
Leaked call on Ukraine made on unencrypted cellphones -U.S. officials
By Mark Hosenball

(Reuters) - A senior U.S. State Department officer and the ambassador to Ukraine apparently used unencrypted cellphones for a call about political developments in Ukraine that was leaked and touched off an international furor, U.S. officials said in Washington on Friday.

In the call, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland used an expletive in apparently disparaging the idea of relying on help from the European Union in negotiating a political solution in Ukraine.

The U.S. officials said the conversation between Nuland and ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt was likely intercepted at the Ukraine end and that they believe both Ambassador Pyatt and Nuland were speaking on cellphones.

An official familiar with the matter said State Department employees, including officials at a senior level, are not issued cellphones that use encryption.

-Snipped-

[Thanas]

Probably the same reason German officials get caught not using them - they are hard to handle and inconsistent in quality / signal strength.

[werehawk]

There is that.

Still I would think that the State Department would be a bit more security aware about the possibility of having cellphone conversations eavesdropped into. Particularly considering the neighborhood which includes a state which will use any dirt it can get on the U.S. for propaganda purposes.