Woman who stopped for ducks faces life in prison

[Borgholio]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /11235367/

A Canadian woman parked her car on a Montreal-area highway in 2010 to help a group of ducklings; almost four years to the day later, Emma Czornobaj was on Friday found guilty of causing the deaths of a motorcyclist and his passenger daughter who smashed into her car.

The jury was unanimous in convicting the 25-year-old on two counts of criminal negligence causing death, a charge that carries a maximum life sentence, and two counts of dangerous driving causing death, which comes with a maximum of 14 years in jail.

The Canadian Press reports Andre Roy, 50, who was traveling with his 16-year-old daughter, Jessie, on his Harley-Davidson, was driving an estimated 70 mph to 80 mph in a roughly 60 mph zone.

His wife was following behind them at a slower speed and avoided injury, and has said she doesn't blame Czornobaj for the deaths; her husband died in her arms, and her daughter, who was pinned beneath the Honda Civic, died later in a hospital.

The AP notes Czornobaj wiped away tears when the verdict was delivered to a packed courtroom; she was released until her pre-sentence hearing on Aug. 8.

Czornobaj had stopped her car in the left lane of a provincial highway after spotting roughly seven ducklings on the median, reports CTV. The self-professed animal lover told the court that she did not see the ducklings' mother anywhere and was trying to herd them, with the intention of taking them home.

TheMontreal Gazettenotes that the case is an unusual one, in that Czornobaj faces a life sentence though there was no criminal intent tied to her actions.

If she stopped actually in the lane, then yeah she deserves some form of punishment but I think life in prison is way excessive. I would have to call fowl on this one.

[Raw Shark]

Yeah, this should be, at worst, vehicular manslaughter, if not criminal negligence (in my humble opinion; I am not a lawyer). Without intent you don't even have Murder 2 in the USA.

[Kingmaker]

She hasn't been sentenced yet.

[Gandalf]

Why was the guy going 15-30kph over the speed limit while carrying his daughter?

Maybe he would have been better able to see the stopped car.

[Patroklos]

I would like to know the roadway circumstances. Did she stop along a sharp blind curve? Did she put on her hazard lights or deploy any other roadway hazard displays? Were there any visibility restrictions like fog or being dawn/dusk? Were the roads wet?

If she stopped in a way that was obviously extremely likely to cause issues then animal lover or not she should have known better. If it was along a long straightaway in full visibility then I would put all of the blame on the speeding motorcyclist. We do have lots of instances of cars having to pull over or breaking down in lanes and we generally expect other motorists to be capable of handling these circumstances.

I had a situation if front of a condo building where I and some bystanders shut down a city street to rescue some ducklings who fell into a storm drain. Not a high speed road at all but I understand the inclination to stop and help.

[fgalkin]

On June 27, 2010, Czornobaj stopped her car in the left-hand lane of Highway 30 in Candiac, exited the Honda Civic and tried to rescue a group of about seven ducklings. Within seconds, a Harley-Davidson motorcycle, driven by André Roy, 50, with his 16-year-old daughter Jessie on the back, slammed into the back of Czornobaj’s vehicle. Both died as a result of the collision.

From: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Dri ... story.html

So, it wasn't a case of her parking the car. It was a case of her seeing some ducklings on the side of the road, deciding that she wanted to "rescue" them by taking them home, and slamming the brakes without checking if anyone was behind her.

She deserves the sentence.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Elheru Aran]

So, it wasn't a case of her parking the car. It was a case of her seeing some ducklings on the side of the road, deciding that she wanted to "rescue" them by taking them home, and slamming the brakes without checking if anyone was behind her.

She deserves the sentence.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Life in prison for negligently causing an automobile accident? You don't think that's a bit excessive?

[Borgholio]

Life in prison for negligently causing an automobile accident? You don't think that's a bit excessive?

It was admitted that the motorcyclist was speeding. That should also be a mitigating factor.

[Dominus Atheos]

On June 27, 2010, Czornobaj stopped her car in the left-hand lane of Highway 30 in Candiac, exited the Honda Civic and tried to rescue a group of about seven ducklings. Within seconds, a Harley-Davidson motorcycle, driven by André Roy, 50, with his 16-year-old daughter Jessie on the back, slammed into the back of Czornobaj’s vehicle. Both died as a result of the collision.

From: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Dri ... story.html

So, it wasn't a case of her parking the car. It was a case of her seeing some ducklings on the side of the road, deciding that she wanted to "rescue" them by taking them home, and slamming the brakes without checking if anyone was behind her.

She deserves the sentence.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

The car was stopped for 20 seconds before the motorcycle hit it, so it wasn't a result of "slamming on the brakes".

http://globalnews.ca/news/1386181/i-kno ... testifies/

The 25-year-old Concordia University graduate told the jury she decided to stop her vehicle because, in her opinion, she “felt there was no risk.”

She told court she stopped only for a short time – about 20 seconds.

[Lost Soal]

On June 27, 2010, Czornobaj stopped her car in the left-hand lane of Highway 30 in Candiac, exited the Honda Civic and tried to rescue a group of about seven ducklings. Within seconds, a Harley-Davidson motorcycle, driven by André Roy, 50, with his 16-year-old daughter Jessie on the back, slammed into the back of Czornobaj’s vehicle. Both died as a result of the collision.

From: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Dri ... story.html

So, it wasn't a case of her parking the car. It was a case of her seeing some ducklings on the side of the road, deciding that she wanted to "rescue" them by taking them home, and slamming the brakes without checking if anyone was behind her.

She deserves the sentence.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

On June 27, 2010, Czornobaj stopped her car in the left-hand lane of Highway 30 in Candiac, exited the Honda Civic and tried to rescue a group of about seven ducklings. Within seconds, a Harley-Davidson motorcycle, driven by André Roy, 50, with his 16-year-old daughter Jessie on the back, slammed into the back of Czornobaj’s vehicle. Both died as a result of the collision

The very next paragraph, she was parked and all ready out of her car. So no she didn't just slam on her breaks without checking behind her, she had to see the ducks then slow down from 60 and get out of her car, that takes time and distance so it couldn't be a blind bend either.

[tezunegari]

On June 27, 2010, Czornobaj stopped her car in the left-hand lane of Highway 30 in Candiac [...]

Isn't the left-hand lane on Highways for passing slower cars on the right-hand lane(s)?!
At least that's the case in Germany and you are supposed to drive at the right-most lane unless you want to overtake slow traffic.

If that's the case and she did PARK ON THE FUCKING PASSING LANE she is responsible for the crash even if the motorbike was faster than permitted.

But a life sentence is a bit much - five years at most, maybe even on parole if she has no prior convictions, and a heavy fine.

[General Zod]

On June 27, 2010, Czornobaj stopped her car in the left-hand lane of Highway 30 in Candiac [...]

Isn't the left-hand lane on Highways for passing slower cars on the right-hand lane(s)?!
At least that's the case in Germany and you are supposed to drive at the right-most lane unless you want to overtake slow traffic.

If that's the case and she did PARK ON THE FUCKING PASSING LANE she is responsible for the crash even if the motorbike was faster than permitted.

But a life sentence is a bit much - five years at most, maybe even on parole if she has no prior convictions, and a heavy fine.

Life sentence is the maximum. There has been no actual sentencing yet.

[Esquire]

Interesting that she was convicted of both dangerous driving causing death and criminal negligence causing death. I'd have thought only one of those would be necessary.

[Purple]

Interesting that she was convicted of both dangerous driving causing death and criminal negligence causing death. I'd have thought only one of those would be necessary.

Better safe than sorry.

[General Zod]

Interesting that she was convicted of both dangerous driving causing death and criminal negligence causing death. I'd have thought only one of those would be necessary.

It's pretty standard practice for prosecutors to tack on every charge they think can apply.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Was she attempting to avoid running over the ducklings? No? Okay, she shouldn't have come to a stop in the left lane. Coming to a stop on a 100 km/h road should only happen under certain circumstances. Flat tire, wheel comes off, something breaks, a motorist in need (and you pull off the fucking road for all of these)... But to pick up some ducklings that aren't about to go under your tire? That's fucking reckless.

A life sentence, if that's the decision, would be excessive. But I really, really doubt they're gonna sentence her to life in prison for this. She deserves to face some sort of criminal penalties for making an utterly fucking retarded and dangerous decision that did get two people killed. At minimum, she should never get behind the wheel of a car again, as she's proven she lacks the capacity to make intelligent decisions on when you should and shouldn't stop.


Now, for the braking related matters: At 60 mp/h (the stated speed limit), it takes a sports car over 100 feet to stop. Under full braking. A Honda Civic will take longer than that, though I can't say just how much longer without taking the time to Google it and see if there's info. Without knowing what year Civic it is, information would be harder to get anyway. How far away can most people make out ducklings clearly enough to tell what they are? We'll say maybe 200 feet for her to be able to go "Hey, ducklings!" Keep in mind ducklings are tiny little creatures.

Average reaction time for braking is about three quarters of a second. 60 mph is 88 feet per second. So between deciding to stop for the ducklings and her foot hitting the brakes she's traveled 66 feet already. She still has well over 100 feet if she brakes as hard as the car can handle. Remember, under 110 feet is good for a sports car. A Civic, with those tiny-ass brakes and the low contact area with the road? I'd guess 150 feet would be giving it too much credit. Either way, if she hit the brakes safely, it'd take her well past those adorable little ducklings before she stopped. To stop anywhere close to the ducks she'd need to stop as fast as a Civic can stop. These numbers assume she was going the speed limit. Well, a little under since I'm assuming Canada likes to have their speed limits end in a 0, and they use km/h like any civilized person would. 2 mp/h doesn't make a huge difference, though.

If she didn't have her hazards on (which would not surprise me) then that'd help explain why the motorcyclist didn't know she had stopped when there was still plenty of time to stop or go around her. Stop and think of how fast you come up on stuff when you're going freeway speeds. Take into account that you really don't expect to see some asshole parking her car in the passing lane. Take into account reaction times. Yeah, if he'd been going closer to the speed limit he might have been able to avoid her, assuming the lane to his right was open for him to dart over. Coming to a dead stop? Motorcycles don't have much margin of error when it comes to braking fast. Too hard and you flip over. And given that the 14 year old girl died pinned underneath the Civic, I'm thinking he tried to brake and go around but the bike came out from under them.

The dude speeding doesn't absolve the duck lover of being a reckless moron.

So yeah, no way in hell she braked safely unless she walked back a hundred feet to the ducks she wanted to rescue.

[Rekkon]

I had something very like this happen a few years ago. I was on the interstate when the person in front of me decided to brake hard, as in forced-to-swerve-onto-the-shoulder-to-avoid-rear-ending-them hard. The next guy had to do the same and then ran into me. First person just drives away, and I see they had stopped for a family of ducks. Check on the accident we just caused? Nah. Vehicle had Canadian plates too. At least in our case no motorcycles were involved.

[Esquire]

Interesting that she was convicted of both dangerous driving causing death and criminal negligence causing death. I'd have thought only one of those would be necessary.

It's pretty standard practice for prosecutors to tack on every charge they think can apply.

Yeah, I was more surprised that they were two distinct charges. I'd have thought the former was a subset of the second.

[Terralthra]

Things have come a long way, I guess. When I was doing driver's ed, if the person driving in front of you stopped and you couldn't stop in time to keep from hitting them, it was your fault for following too close, not their fault for stopping.

[The Vortex Empire]

Things have come a long way, I guess. When I was doing driver's ed, if the person driving in front of you stopped and you couldn't stop in time to keep from hitting them, it was your fault for following too close, not their fault for stopping.

That's what I was taught in my class 4 years ago.

[SCRawl]

Things have come a long way, I guess. When I was doing driver's ed, if the person driving in front of you stopped and you couldn't stop in time to keep from hitting them, it was your fault for following too close, not their fault for stopping.

This is, in general, true. Which is why the behaviour of the deceased in this case should be (and almost certainly is) a mitigating factor in sentencing the convicted person.

I don't know the geography of the highway in question, but it seems likely to me that the car must have been stopped around a blind(ish) curve, or else the accident is difficult to explain. Parking your car in a live lane on a highway is generally a bad idea, but if you do it in an area where those approaching that spot (even if they are outdriving their ability to brake) are bound to collide with you then you are criminally negligent.

[Simon_Jester]

Put another way, even if the motorcyclist is liable for the accident in an 'insurance' sense, the woman can still be guilty of having willfully created a life-threatening situation on the highway.

Sure, perhaps a 'reasonable person' might have been able to avoid the accident, but by the same argument drivers should be able to dodge if you build a brick wall across a lane of the interstate. Maybe they can, maybe they can't... but you're still willfully creating a life-threatening situation.

[Highlord Laan]

Life in prison for negligently causing an automobile accident? You don't think that's a bit excessive?

It was admitted that the motorcyclist was speeding. That should also be a mitigating factor.

Because going 60 instead of 80 would have saved them when the dumbass in front of them brake checked to save some birds.

[Channel72]

Er, yeah... going 60 instead of 80 might actually have saved them, considering the 20 mph difference is pretty significant.

Anyway, I feel sorry for everyone involved. The woman obviously had no criminal intent; she's just kind of a flake. What impossibly bad luck she's stumbled upon.

[Highlord Laan]

Er, yeah... going 60 instead of 80 might actually have saved them, considering the 20 mph difference is pretty significant.

Anyway, I feel sorry for everyone involved. The woman obviously had no criminal intent; she's just kind of a flake. What impossibly bad luck she's stumbled upon.

Going 60 on a motorcycle pretty much means any impact will kill you.