Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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Arthur_Tuxedo
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Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

Post by Arthur_Tuxedo »

Slate opinion article 9/16/14: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... lving.html
Jamelle Bouie wrote:Scott Walker wants drug tests.

Specifically, the Wisconsin governor wants to drug-test people applying for food stamps and unemployment insurance. So far, there are no details to share; insofar that there’s a plan, it’s a single line from a campaign document, detailing Walker’s agenda for a second term.

And lack of detail aside, there’s a small problem: States aren’t allowed to take this step with either food stamps or unemployment insurance. If Walker wants drug tests, he’ll need permission from the federal government, which he’s prepared to fight on the issue. “We believe that there will potentially be a fight with the federal government and in court. … Our goal here is not to make it harder to get government assistance; it’s to make it easier to get a job,” he said in an interview with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

This push for drug tests doesn’t come out of the ether. Across the country, drug tests for public benefits are standard fare for Republican politicians. Since 2010, Republicans in Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, North Carolina, Missouri, Arizona, Utah, Kansas, and Oklahoma have passed drug-testing laws for welfare recipients. The measures vary from state to state, but the rationales are almost always the same. “It protects hard-earned taxpayer dollars from enabling a dangerous habit,” said Alabama state Sen. Trip Pittman in support of his drug-testing proposal. And North Carolina state Rep. Dean Arp defended his bill as a way to “end a bad practice of supporting active drug abusers with the hard-earned money of law-abiding North Carolinians.”

The problem, however, is that this isn’t a problem.

The vast majority of people on public assistance aren’t drug users and aren’t addicted to any illegal substances. In one study, only 3.6 percent of recipients satisfied the screening criteria for drug abuse and dependence. In another, among people who received food stamps, the rate was similarly low.

You can see this in the poor record for drug-testing programs. In the first year of Utah’s program, for instance, only 12 people showed evidence of drug use after a mandatory screening, at a cost of $25,000. And in Florida, from 2011 to 2012, just 108 of the 4,086 people who took a drug test failed—a rate of 2.6 percent—at a cost of nearly $46,000 to taxpayers.

Welfare drug tests waste money and add new stigma to public assistance. Still, Republicans push and support them, a bad “solution” to an imaginary problem.

To be clear, this isn’t an instance of good ideas and bad ideas, where a problem exists, and lawmakers have done a poor job of fixing it. No, with their drug tests, Walker and other Republicans have launched an assault on a problem—drug-addled welfare users—that doesn’t exist. But this isn’t the first time Republicans have attacked a fake problem with real—and harmful—policy.

Take voter fraud. A rallying cry for Republicans, the specter of fraudulent voting has justified a whole host of strict identification laws. “Voter fraud is a well-documented reality in American elections,” wrote Kris Kobach, the Republican secretary of state for Kansas, which has one of the toughest voter ID laws in the country. He continued: “Evidence of voter fraud is present in all 50 states, and public confidence in the integrity of elections is at an all-time low.”

Likewise, in their book Who’s Counting?, columnist John Fund and Republican lawyer Hans von Spakovsky declare that “Election fraud, whether it’s phony voter registrations, illegal absentee ballots, vote-buying, shady recounts, or old-fashioned ballot-box stuffing, can be found in every part of the United States.” To that end, von Spakovsky is a vocal supporter for voter ID laws, which he calls “a commonsense reform intended to protect the integrity of the election process for all candidates.”

To that apparent end, lawmakers in 19 states have passed a bevy of restrictive voting measures, including photo ID requirements and an end to same-day registration. In Wisconsin, for example, a Scott Walker–backed law reduced early voting on weeknights and eliminated them on weekends, placing a huge burden on urban precincts throughout the state.

Again, this was unnecessary. We don’t need to fight voter fraud because it doesn’t exist, or at least, it doesn’t exist at a scale that requires drastic action. Justin Levitt, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles, tracked every instance of voter fraud from 2000 to present. He found 31 incidents out of one billion ballots cast. Put another way, you’re more likely to see a UFO or get killed by lightning than you are to witness in-person voter fraud—the kind supposedly “prevented” by voter ID laws. Still, “protecting the ballot” is a priority for Republicans, regardless of what it means for voter access and participation.

Then there is the fake problem of bad abortion clinic design. In states like Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi, lawmakers have passed targeted regulations of abortion providers (“TRAP” laws), which—as my colleague Amanda Marcotte described—“single out abortion clinics for medical regulations no other clinics that provide similarly low-risk services need to obey.” Examples include hospital-admitting privileges for clinics that perform first trimester abortions—which have minimal risk of major complications—and onerous building requirements that have little to do with safety; in 2013, Virginia required clinics performing first trimester abortions to expand their parking lots.

Now, tens of millions of Americans oppose abortion, and it’s clear these laws are meant to reduce its availability. On paper, at least, the goal is to—in the words of one Republican lawmaker—“protect the right of women having an abortion to have it in a healthy, safe environment.” But there’s no epidemic of unhealthy, unsafe clinics, either in Alabama or nationwide; a House Republican investigation of abortion clinics—following the Kermit Gosnell trial—uncovered little in the way of misconduct. Overwhelmingly, authorities already heavily monitored abortion providers, long before this new wave of targeted regulation.

If this were just rhetoric—if Republicans were just talking about voter fraud, addicts on welfare, and out-of-control abortion clinics—it would be tolerable. But on each score, the GOP has pushed policies that, over the past four years, have discouraged voting, stripped benefits from low-income Americans, and limited abortion access.

In other words, the GOP might be fighting fake problems, but they provide real excuses for the most draconian parts of the Republican agenda.
Good summation of the latest wave of conservative bullshit. This doesn't even mention another obvious problem, which is that even if drug addiction among welfare recipients were widespread, kicking them off public assistance without treatment would simply increase crime, which would cause the need for higher taxpayer spending both short and long-term and reduce the chance of addicts cleaning up, leading to long-term, multi-generational economic and societal damage.

My question is why do Republicans continue to spout such nonsense? In liberal circles, the typical answer is either stupidity or animus against the poor, but I am not aware of any measurable differences in intelligence between people politically left or right of center, and "I hate poor people" is not an ideology that would be held by anyone that is the hero of his/her own story, so what's going on here? Is it that Fox News and the Internet has allowed conservatives to silo themselves into a parallel universe of news and opinion to such an extent that absurd fantasies are never challenged? Is it the poorly informed voting populace resulting from decades of underfunding education that causes people not to question counterfactual statements? I genuinely want to understand what could cause so many people to take seriously ideas that are so clearly in opposition to reality, and "conservatives are dumb, har har" doesn't explain it.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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It's very easy for people to believe things that don't match the objective facts if ideology tells them these things should be happening, and if there is even a handful of anecdotal evidence.

If you are already predisposed to think millionaires drink human blood, and you hear of it happening once, you will assume it's widespread. If you are already predisposed to think Christians sacrifice babies at communion, then someone can outright make up a story of it happening and you'll believe it- it happened in Rome. If you are already predisposed to think that the druggies, the unemployed, the welfare recipients, and the people who play that loud music with the bass turned up are all the same group... again, all it really takes is one or two anecdotes to provide fodder for the confirmation bias.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:My question is why do Republicans continue to spout such nonsense? In liberal circles, the typical answer is either stupidity or animus against the poor, but I am not aware of any measurable differences in intelligence between people politically left or right of center, and "I hate poor people" is not an ideology that would be held by anyone that is the hero of his/her own story, so what's going on here?
Moral lynching mobs? As individual people were very unlikely to say 'no' to real mob, moral mob uses the same scare tactics: "No? so you're pro drugs/drunk driving/murdering babies/gangs/whatever?" making you a villain if you disagree. Thus, people are less likely to say no, even when excellent reasons, like costs above, exist to do it. It's just hard to reason with emotional mob?
Is it that Fox News and the Internet has allowed conservatives to silo themselves into a parallel universe of news and opinion to such an extent that absurd fantasies are never challenged? Is it the poorly informed voting populace resulting from decades of underfunding education that causes people not to question counterfactual statements?
Google/Facebook does it for them. Seriously:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble

Under-education contributes too. You have a class of idiots that has no idea how to research topic, weight different points of view, and spot bullshit, seeing always the same side of political discourse, and being convinced it's right.

Admittedly, that happens on both sides on political fence, but people erring on the side cooperation, liberalisation, and state being supportive, not oppressive, at least can't be actively harmful and backwards like other group.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

Post by Beowulf »

Irbis wrote:
Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:My question is why do Republicans continue to spout such nonsense? In liberal circles, the typical answer is either stupidity or animus against the poor, but I am not aware of any measurable differences in intelligence between people politically left or right of center, and "I hate poor people" is not an ideology that would be held by anyone that is the hero of his/her own story, so what's going on here?
Moral lynching mobs? As individual people were very unlikely to say 'no' to real mob, moral mob uses the same scare tactics: "No? so you're pro drugs/drunk driving/murdering babies/gangs/whatever?" making you a villain if you disagree. Thus, people are less likely to say no, even when excellent reasons, like costs above, exist to do it. It's just hard to reason with emotional mob?
To be fair, both sides do the moral lynching mobs. See anytime the phrase "for the children" is used. That always throws my bullshit flag up, because they're almost always using an appeal to emotion.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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[waves hand]

Hey, when it comes to education reform, we generally are doing it for the children, it's just a question of how not to screw it up for them...

More seriously, yes, this kind of thing happens on both sides. However, in the US over the past decade or two, I suspect that this has led to more generation of totally fictitious issues, or issues being exaggerated by orders of magnitude, on the right.

There are not many Democratic equivalents of the process by which Republicans took a few isolated instances of fraudulent "welfare queens" and made this out to be an endemic problem with the whole welfare system, for instance. And, for that matter, have managed to continue to make political hay out of this even though welfare assistance only comes to a few hundred dollars a month in general. But to pursue those few hundred dollars a month worth of fraud we're willing to mandate detailed inspections of your home, interrogations, repeated interrogations until someone finds something that in their mind doesn't add up and unilaterally boots you off the rolls, and now mass, unilateral drug tests to deal with the tiny, tiny level of druggies on welfare.

Because gee, it's not like people trying to get off the drugs never have a need for some kind of support structure! I'm sure that if you're a heroin addict trying to quit and live a semi-normal life, it is so easy to find regular work to keep a roof over your head! And it's not like giving addicts literally no legal option to have the means of survival, including begging for public charity, might make them desperate enough to cause other problems like stealing to keep a roof over their heads!
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The only issue I can think of that's comparable is the nuclear issue, where 1970s environmentalism became very very misguided and created wide popular opposition to nuclear power plants. But while environmentalism as such may have been a 'left' movement, the anti-nuclear-power movement itself isn't really a partisan phenomenon today; there seem to be plenty of Republicans who don't want to live next to a nuclear reactor either.

Whereas pounding on the welfare rosters until people fall off is very explicitly a 'right' political agenda.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:My question is why do Republicans continue to spout such nonsense? In liberal circles, the typical answer is either stupidity or animus against the poor, but I am not aware of any measurable differences in intelligence between people politically left or right of center, and "I hate poor people" is not an ideology that would be held by anyone that is the hero of his/her own story, so what's going on here? Is it that Fox News and the Internet has allowed conservatives to silo themselves into a parallel universe of news and opinion to such an extent that absurd fantasies are never challenged? Is it the poorly informed voting populace resulting from decades of underfunding education that causes people not to question counterfactual statements? I genuinely want to understand what could cause so many people to take seriously ideas that are so clearly in opposition to reality, and "conservatives are dumb, har har" doesn't explain it.

Walker's case is very straightforward; he's probably losing. Walker's support among Wisconsinites basically hasn't changed in the last few months, while his opponent's been able to vacuum up the latent support in that state. Don't forget that Walker won a fairly close victory in 2010 on the back of literally the strongest Republican tide in living memory. He probably won his recall campaign on the back of voters who didn't like him, but didn't think he deserved to be recalled. That's not the case any longer. Wisconsin's so politically polarized as a state (it's something like sixth most polarized in the country) that Walker can't rely on winning over independents since they don't really exist. And he's so widely reviled among the "left" out there that the normal midterm drop-off doesn't apply. AFSCME regards him as public enemy number one and they'll drive up turnout. Walker has to do the same.

All of these GOP governors with their crazy right-wing ideas are looking increasingly shaky. Sam Brownback's re-election chances are looking increasingly dire, despite the state being, you know, Kansas. Rick Snyder's losing in Michigan and his Democratic opponent's continuing to pick up steam. Tom Corbett's polling is so bad against Tom Wolff that his campaign claimed that he was "only" down by 7%! Rick Scott's in a fight to the death with earstwhile Governor Charlie Crist, despite the fact that nobody actually likes Charlie Crist. Even Nathan Deal in rock-ribbed GOP Georgia's in for a tough fight this year.

We're eight weeks out from election day, give or take. EVERYTHING will be political showmanship until 11/4. They're not even talking about things they necessarily believe anymore. They're trying to win.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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Once you start to doublethink it's hard to go back.

From where I'm standing US political discourse has been in in the grip of cycles of disingenuous arguments for years. From endless insincere court arguments trying to cover up religious persecution of gays to bullshit 'they hate us for our freedoms' propaganda, it looks to me like a serious problem with framing and dog-whistle politics.

Walker's argument is hardly new: it's a carbon copy of Reagan's welfare queen, with drugs substituting for the Cadillac. It's a made up problem serving as a dishonest argument obscuring an unspoken motive - 'fuck the poor', 'fuck the gays', whatever. Once sufficient numbers of people are conditioned to accept that sort of coded messaging a good chunk of political discourse will inevitably become unmoored from a reality it has increasingly less relation with, because politicians can just substitute wink-wink nudge-nudge if-you-know-what-I-mean for actual arguments, and not be punished for it.

You ask why do Republicans spout such nonsense? Because it let them win. Because a ton of people vote for them if they engage in this sort of soundbite bullshit. Because your Fourth Estate sucks donkey balls. Because your society is polarized and your political and media ecosystem is utterly poisonous to anyone trying to have a reasoned debate. That's why.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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There seems to be a problem with the GOP needing to say that they are the good guys, thus they need to find ways to declare some persons less or more worth than others.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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It's because there are substantial members of the middle class who do look down on those on welfare, who consider themselves hard-working Americans who are being taxed to support people who won't try to support themselves. Everyone "knows" that Democrats tax working Americans to pay handout benefits to people to get their votes, that they go around committing election fraud by bussing unregistered homeless around to vote sraight Democrat on election day in exchange for goodies, and that the dead in Chicago vote Democrat. Welfare reform and voter reform are thus absolutely necessary to keep the Democrats from stealing elections.

This isn't just made up delusion to justify a policy, it's an ingrained belief, and I'm not sure hard data will alter it much, because... everybody knows the media are pro-Democrat and that studies can be tilted to say something the study organizers want to say.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:My question is why do Republicans continue to spout such nonsense? In liberal circles, the typical answer is either stupidity or animus against the poor, but I am not aware of any measurable differences in intelligence between people politically left or right of center, and "I hate poor people" is not an ideology that would be held by anyone that is the hero of his/her own story, so what's going on here?
I am puzzled why you think “I hate poor people” is incompatible with being “the hero of his/her own story”? The present US is hardly the first culture to equate wealth with intelligence, competence, and superiority and poverty with being either defective or immoral or both. If you believe the poor somehow deserve their fate, having done something wrong, then contempt and hate are not surprising.
Simon_Jester wrote:Because gee, it's not like people trying to get off the drugs never have a need for some kind of support structure! I'm sure that if you're a heroin addict trying to quit and live a semi-normal life, it is so easy to find regular work to keep a roof over your head! And it's not like giving addicts literally no legal option to have the means of survival, including begging for public charity, might make them desperate enough to cause other problems like stealing to keep a roof over their heads!
The idea is to make taking drugs a horrible thing, resulting in a sort of social and economic death, consequences so dire no one would dare even start taking drugs. Of course, that's writing off current druggies as a lost cause but then plenty of people believe addicts can't change and are doomed to be thieves and scum for eternity.

The flaw, of course, is that dire consequences don't stop people from making dumb-ass decisions. The threat of eternal torture at the hands of Satan and his minions never stopped Christians from committing various crimes and sins, being denied welfare isn't going to make a heroin addict stop shooting up.
Thanas wrote:There seems to be a problem with the GOP needing to say that they are the good guys, thus they need to find ways to declare some persons less or more worth than others.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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Beowulf wrote:To be fair, both sides do the moral lynching mobs. See anytime the phrase "for the children" is used. That always throws my bullshit flag up, because they're almost always using an appeal to emotion.
Can you maybe point out some examples? Almost all of the time, "for the children" is used by the right side, to ban: drugs/pornography/abortions/sex education/alcohol/RPGs/Hip Hop/Harry Potter/etc whatever is the scare of the month. At least in Europe, but US examples don't seem to be different.

Ironically, the only initiative "for the children" EUs left wing parties recently passed was adding a few regulations on intrafamily violence to charter on human rights, to which a lot of right wing parties, especially religious ones, are virulently opposed. Because it somehow 'damages moral fabric of basic social cell' or whatever bullshit they came up with. As if supporting abused partners and children will somehow ban marriages and dissolve families :roll:
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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Thanks for turning me on to the concept of the filter bubble, Irbis. Hadn't heard of that before.

I guess what I'm trying to reconcile here is the (still correct, I think) view of the modern conservative movement that I developed following the news and reading this board since the early days of the Bush administration and the very reasonable right-of-center people I've met during the course of my career and adult life. These are people who call themselves staunch Republicans, and yet support a nuanced position on gun control, healthcare, and other topics as long as no one drops a word grenade like Obamacare, illegal alien, or protestor. Assuming that the people I've encountered are remotely representative of the typical Republican voter (dicey, I know), there has to be a disconnect somewhere along the way between the views of conservative voters and the asshats that represent them. Is gerrymandering so severe that we end up with a body of elected representatives whose views don't align with the people that elected them, or has the GOP been so successful at sociological engineering and creating wedge issues that people feel forced into voting for people they don't agree with, or is my experience just way off the norm and the party really is mostly full of raving lunatics?
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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Have you lived in SF for most of your life? Because the Republicans here in our fair city are not representative of the country at large.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:My question is why do Republicans continue to spout such nonsense? In liberal circles, the typical answer is either stupidity or animus against the poor, but I am not aware of any measurable differences in intelligence between people politically left or right of center, and "I hate poor people" is not an ideology that would be held by anyone that is the hero of his/her own story, so what's going on here?
Well, the problem is right about here. "I hate poor people," isn't the ideology. "If someone is poor its his own damn fault, and if we just give him stuff he won't work to make himself not poor," is, accompanied by "Because poverty is the fault of the poor, there must be something morally wrong with them, probably drugs." It's quite possible to be the hero of your own story while wanting people to bootstrap themselves up (which you believe is universally possible) and wishing to punish immoral reprobates.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Thanks for turning me on to the concept of the filter bubble, Irbis. Hadn't heard of that before.

I guess what I'm trying to reconcile here is the (still correct, I think) view of the modern conservative movement that I developed following the news and reading this board since the early days of the Bush administration and the very reasonable right-of-center people I've met during the course of my career and adult life. These are people who call themselves staunch Republicans, and yet support a nuanced position on gun control, healthcare, and other topics as long as no one drops a word grenade like Obamacare, illegal alien, or protestor. Assuming that the people I've encountered are remotely representative of the typical Republican voter (dicey, I know), there has to be a disconnect somewhere along the way between the views of conservative voters and the asshats that represent them. Is gerrymandering so severe that we end up with a body of elected representatives whose views don't align with the people that elected them, or has the GOP been so successful at sociological engineering and creating wedge issues that people feel forced into voting for people they don't agree with, or is my experience just way off the norm and the party really is mostly full of raving lunatics?
Gerrymandered districts and the problem that only the fanatic fringe participates actively in primaries. Which means that unless you support what they want, rather than what the more moderate folks want, you don't get elected.

All in all, the US election system is, from the bottom to the top, a dismal failure that promotes division, polarization and all kinds of bullshit. It is an almost perfect example of what NOT to do in order to get a working political system.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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Our system is fine, although it could use a few tweaks, it's voter apathy that's the real problem. When you have 20-30% turnout in non presidential election years, no system will work as intended.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

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I disagree - gerrymandering is a very serious problem. It allows the extremists who gained office some time ago to retain power they otherwise would not have to the detriment of the majority.

Even our system plodded along OK for a long time it's not working well now. Time was adversaries in Congress would go out socializing after their workday, time was compromises were made across party lines, time was Congress actually functioned. That is not what happens in the present and it's bad for the country.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

Post by Edi »

Block wrote:Our system is fine, although it could use a few tweaks, it's voter apathy that's the real problem. When you have 20-30% turnout in non presidential election years, no system will work as intended.
It is not helped at all by deliberate efforts specifically by Republicans to prevent as many people as possible from voting. They need the turnout to be systematically low, or else they would be receiving successive crushing defeats one after another.
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Block
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

Post by Block »

Edi wrote:
Block wrote:Our system is fine, although it could use a few tweaks, it's voter apathy that's the real problem. When you have 20-30% turnout in non presidential election years, no system will work as intended.
It is not helped at all by deliberate efforts specifically by Republicans to prevent as many people as possible from voting. They need the turnout to be systematically low, or else they would be receiving successive crushing defeats one after another.
Completely agree with you there.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

Post by Arthur_Tuxedo »

Terralthra wrote:Have you lived in SF for most of your life? Because the Republicans here in our fair city are not representative of the country at large.
I have only run into a couple of SF residents brave enough to identify as conservative out loud. My experience comes mostly from people in the San Joaquin valley (I'm from Stockton originally). I suppose they might also be left of the national average GOP voter, but I doubt it's by a whole lot given that the area is dominated by agriculture.
Rogue 9 wrote:Well, the problem is right about here. "I hate poor people," isn't the ideology. "If someone is poor its his own damn fault, and if we just give him stuff he won't work to make himself not poor," is, accompanied by "Because poverty is the fault of the poor, there must be something morally wrong with them, probably drugs." It's quite possible to be the hero of your own story while wanting people to bootstrap themselves up (which you believe is universally possible) and wishing to punish immoral reprobates.
I get that, but it still doesn't explain things like refusing to expand Medicaid on the Feds' dime and not being punished for it at the polls. Most individual conservative voters would acknowledge that poor people getting basic healthcare does not constitute a hammock, yet the aggregate result of their votes yields policies far to the right of their individual views, it seems.
Edi wrote:All in all, the US election system is, from the bottom to the top, a dismal failure that promotes division, polarization and all kinds of bullshit. It is an almost perfect example of what NOT to do in order to get a working political system.
I agree. The US' two-party, winner take all, gerrymandered, and for-sale political system has led to catastrophic results with no end in sight. What are the major things that the Finnish system does differently that our country could emulate?
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

Post by Simon_Jester »

It has to do with the way that the spin/propaganda machine on the right works.

If you do a moderately right-wing thing in America, the mainstream media describes you in neutral terms and the left-wing media has no real influence except among a tiny sliver of the voterbase. So if they hate you, it doesn't matter.

If you do a moderately left-wing thing in America, the mainstream media describes you in neutral terms... but the right-wing media is vast, organized, and has far greater power over the hearts and minds of the Republican core voter bloc.

Therefore, it is far more dangerous and unlikely for a Republican to make even a gesture of doing anything that could possibly be interpreted as being sort of like what a Democrat would want, than for a Democrat to do the reverse for a Republican.

To oversimplify, a Democrat can vote for a tax cut without losing office; a Republican can't vote against one. Therefore, Democrats can, safely and without consequences, adhere to a moderate-left policy designed to appeal to the center as well as the left. Republicans can't do the equivalent on the right. Instead they have to posture and demonstrate their red-meat all-American 'toughness' on political issues to a relative handful of lunatic fanboys who fetishize the issues in question.

It's pretty much all-or-nothing for them, and in many states Republicans have to push every single Republican talking point to the hilt or else. With the result that the average Republican politician's actions are well to the right of the individuals who vote for him... while the average Democratic politician's actions aren't to the left of his voters.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

Post by Edi »

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:
Edi wrote:All in all, the US election system is, from the bottom to the top, a dismal failure that promotes division, polarization and all kinds of bullshit. It is an almost perfect example of what NOT to do in order to get a working political system.
I agree. The US' two-party, winner take all, gerrymandered, and for-sale political system has led to catastrophic results with no end in sight. What are the major things that the Finnish system does differently that our country could emulate?
Here the country is divided into voting districts according to more or less regional lines, and each region gets a number of representatives proportional to population. All of these districts have more than one seat, off the cuff I don't think there are any smaller than five or six, except Åland, which has two and is an autonomous region and a special case anyway.

In elections, which use the proportional system (the list variant), and the results are tallied using the D'Hont method. It's headache inducing at first, but the results are a pretty fair.

Our system also allows electoral alliances, where for the purposes of tallying results, an alliance of smaller parties (or a large and small party) are treated as a single entity, who then divide the seats the alliance gains according to their relative sizes. A small party that pushes a large one to overall victory due to alliance may even be able to squeeze an extra seat or other concessions out of it.
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

Post by Channel72 »

The Republican party is in serious trouble of being demographically reduced to irrelevancy on a federal level. People like Karl Rove see the strategic need to reform or die and quickly include as many Hispanics ASAP.

Interestingly, it seems that Rove's strategy was more or less working at one point, back in the Bush years:
Reuters wrote:Once upon a time, Rove had hoped to build a big-tent Republican Party that would be well-poised to capture the support of a rapidly diversifying America. He was the mastermind behind George W. Bush’s Latino strategy, first when Bush won reelection as Texas governor in 1998 and again when he campaigned for the presidency in 2000. In ’98 Bush became the first Republican gubernatorial candidate in Texas to win overwhelmingly Mexican-American El Paso County. Two years later, he won a respectable 35 percent of the Latino vote nationally.
So things seemed to be going well for them. But then this happened.

Somewhere along the line, they all stopped listening to Rove and decided a better strategy was to appeal to crazy white people. It wasn't until after the 2012 defeat that the Republicans really woke up and realized they can't win with only the redneck vote. Even fucking Sean Hannity toned down his anti-immigration rhetoric.

The problem is that the crazy-white-people strategy was never viable in the long term, and now the Republicans have strategized themselves into a corner. In order to actually win elections these days, the easiest strategy is still to appeal to the hard-core white nutjobs, who - with a little help from gerrymandering and voter ID antics - still provide enough votes to win congressional elections. But everyone knows this isn't a long-term strategy. The Republicans are faced with the dilemma of trying to transition into modernity while (1) somehow differentiating themselves from the Democrats, (2) continuing to appeal to crazy white people in order to win local elections, (3) hoping that (2) somehow doesn't hurt their chances much of bringing more moderates into their tent. Plus, a lot of their funding comes from crazies, so it's really fucking hard for them to just moderate themselves and stay at all relevant.

It's like, they're faced with squeezing whatever they can out of their ever-diminishing hardcore base, which is the only reliable way for them to win elections, while at the same time trying to appeal to a wider audience in order to preserve their future as a viable party. That's a really difficult line to walk.

Regardless, things aren't looking good for them on a federal level...
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

Post by Zaune »

So what happens when the house of cards comes tumbling down and the Democrats find themselves the only functional political party in the United States?
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Re: Republican "solutions" for phantom menaces

Post by Mr Bean »

Zaune wrote:So what happens when the house of cards comes tumbling down and the Democrats find themselves the only functional political party in the United States?
Then the Democratic party divides back in two again with the old guard corporatist wing and the other wing no one listens to.

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