What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

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What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by TimothyC »

While this article is already slightly out of date (Romney dropped out this morning), the core is an interesting read.
Sean Trende for RCP wrote:Normally, I dread commenting on presidential nomination contests. But as much as I might like to return to the days of short presidential nomination processes (Franklin Roosevelt didn’t declare his intention to seek a third term until the summer of 1940), the reality is that the year-long nomination process is here to stay, and it is time to start writing on it.

But in truth, I’m actually hopeful about this year’s campaign, because I think it could be unlike anything we’ve seen in a very long time. I think the Republican Party really could wind up with a brokered convention – that is, a race where no candidate receives a majority of the delegates by the end of voting. In fact, it might well be the most likely outcome, if only because no particular outcome is particularly probable.

This race is intriguing not just because of one possible outcome. It is interesting because it is difficult even to formulate a workable theory of the race. Charlie Cook uses a brackets metaphor, while Jim Geraghty and Larry Sabato think of the race in terms of tiers, but all of these have problems. Instead, I see a race that is largely chaotic. It is one where an unusually large number of candidates have perfectly plausible paths, if not to the nomination, then at least to lengthy runs deep into the balloting process.

This is because 2016 really is the deepest GOP field in a very, very long time. In fact, it isn’t even close. To be clear, that doesn’t mean that eventual candidate is (or will be) the strongest Republican nominee ever. I think that’s unlikely, and in fact, that is crucial to my analysis. It just means that number eight is unusually strong. In 1996, eighth place in Iowa was businessman Morry Taylor. In 2008, it was Alan Keyes (who placed fourth in 2000). This year, eighth place will probably be a candidate we now see as a legitimate contender for the nomination.

Let’s look at Jonathan Bernstein’s list of potential candidates here, and assume the following candidates get in: Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, Chris Christie, Rick Perry, John Kasich, Marco Rubio, Bobby Jindal, Scott Walker, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina, John Bolton and Peter King. Some on that list won’t run, but some others probably will (Mike Pence or Rick Snyder being the most obvious contenders).

Let’s rate this field using a points system as follows: 5 points for a sitting veep, 4 for a sitting senator or governor, 3 for a representative, 2 for Cabinet officials, and 1 for “other.” We’ll (somewhat arbitrarily) add a point for “star power,” and deduct one for candidates who haven’t won a race in the past six years. We’ll do this for all the initial fields going back to 1980 (minor note: Harold Stassen receives a 1 even though he was a former governor. An election in 1938 doesn’t have much bearing in 1988).

The total for the prospective 2016 field is 56 points, by far the highest of any field. The next-closest field, from 2008, totals just 39 points. Moreover, the average candidate quality in 2016 is the highest of the bunch: 3.5 points, compared with 3.1 points for 2012 or 3.3 for 2008. Even this doesn’t tell the whole story though, as the 2008 slate is filled with candidates who were much weaker than their ratings suggested (Jim Gilmore, Sam Brownback, Tommy Thompson). Almost all of the candidates on the 2016 list would have been top-flight contenders against the 2012 field, yet many of them will struggle to finish in the top five in a single primary or caucus.

Now to be clear, it is likely that some of these candidates will drop out as we approach actual voting for the usual reasons: they fail to gain traction in the polls, fail to raise money, or are excluded from debates. At the same time, I think that this “early winnowing” effect will be more muted than is usually the case. Most of the candidates on my list tend to draw support from different wings of the party, have different bases of fundraising, and will register at least some support in Iowa. Someone might catch fire, but I think the lack of an overwhelmingly strong candidate means that it is just as likely that the polling remains very tight, with candidates struggling to make it out of the low teens. This keeps even marginal candidates in striking distance and will decrease the incentive to drop out. Our hypothetical field of 16 might be 10 by caucus day, but it will be a very serious group of 10.

The traditional way to analyze the Republican primary is to walk through the early states, gaming out various paths to the nomination. So, we would start with Iowa, which traditionally likes religious conservatives and fellow Midwesterners. This might argue for Scott Walker, who performed well in the state over the weekend, Ted Cruz, who could combine religious conservatives with Tea Partiers, or perhaps for a repeat victory for Huckabee or Santorum.

Next is New Hampshire, where we could see a Chris Christie, Mitt Romney, or Jeb Bush do well. South Carolina traditionally follows (although for now, New York and Utah precede it) and it has long been the establishment firewall. But lately it has been more populist: Huckabee very nearly defeated McCain (in a race whose map eerily paralleled a 1940 anti-prohibition referendum) on the basis of a strong showing in the upcountry, while in 2012 Newt Gingrich beat Mitt Romney in the state by a 12-point margin. So we might label this fertile territory for an insurgent populist, perhaps Ted Cruz or Rick Perry.

That leaves a flurry of caucus states – Nevada, Colorado and Minnesota – to consider before we get into the run up to Super Tuesday. Santorum made a splash by winning some of these in 2012 (though Romney did manage to win Nevada). But look at the second-place finisher in Minnesota and Maine (which held early caucuses in 2012): Ron Paul. Caucuses tend to reward candidates with devoted followings. If Rand Paul inherits his father’s following and builds upon it somewhat as a more reasonable, electable option, one can see him performing well here.

So here you have a perfectly plausible scenario where we exit the early primary phase of the contest with four winners, each of whom is a legitimate presidential contender. What’s more, it’s not entirely clear how they knock each other out. Scott Walker, Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, and Rand Paul all represent different wings of the party, would draw from different fundraising bases, and would have different demographic appeals. Just as important: None is an obvious choice, but at the same time, unlike 2012, all will have a group of supporters that really likes them; it won’t just be an “anti-Bush” vote trying to coalesce. You can mix up the various winners (Rubio, Christie, Perry, Paul), but the same analysis holds.

Plus, we have states like New York, Utah and North Carolina that have moved up their primaries. We don’t have a good feel for these states, but you could take any one of the above scenarios, add Chris Christie in New York, Mitt Romney in Utah and any number of candidates in North Carolina. Moreover, a strong second-place finisher could decide that he is the next Bill Clinton (who famously won only one of the first 11 primaries in 1992), and try to keep going.

At that point, it really is anybody’s game. No one really has an incentive to drop out, as the RNC’s compressed schedule means the finish line is in sight by the time Super Tuesday rolls around, and all of these candidates can probably win a race here and there to keep the old ball rolling. Money might get tight, but the threshold for winning these contests remains low. It also becomes very difficult for any one candidate to amass a majority of the delegates very, very quickly.

Complicating matters even further, our analyses haven’t fully accounted for the rise of SuperPACs. I suspect 2012 was but a preview of their potential impact. Rick Santorum nearly threw the entire race into chaos in 2012 with a camper and the backing of Foster Friess. Sheldon Adelson helped Newt Gingrich stay in the race through May. Without SuperPACs, they likely would have been out in March, at the latest. What happens if Friess, Adelson, Karl Rove and the Kochs all back different candidates, while a candidate like Paul survives off of grassroots support? That race could go on for a very long time.

But, in fact, the race is even less predictable than the above analysis suggests. To see what I mean, let’s revisit our list of candidates above, putting in a sort of bare minimum for each candidate in Iowa, without any regard for the total vote share. I did this, and I was not generous. Top-flight candidates rarely drop much below 10 percent here, and candidates we today regard as also-also-rans routinely put up strong showings. So when I give two-term governors who have routinely been mentioned as nominee material like Bobby Jindal or Chris Christie 5 percent, or give 11 percent to a candidate like Mike Huckabee, who won 40 percent of the vote the last go-round, I’m being pretty stingy.

The total I came up with was 125 percent. There are two implications to this. First, a lot of objectively strong candidates are going to have to do quite a bit worse than we currently think is possible next January, but we have no real way of knowing just who those candidates are. To be sure, the field will narrow some by Election Day, but I’m already giving the most likely dropouts very small vote shares.

Second, and most importantly, with a deep field such as this that splits the Republican coalition in so many different ways, you really might be able to win Iowa with 12 percent of the vote or so. Alan Keyes surpassed that vote share in 2000, Gary Bauer came within striking distance of it that same year, and Pat Robertson doubled it in 1988.

Given this, almost anyone really can win Iowa this time. Moreover, if we really do have a low-teen threshold for victory in these early races, the types of unpredictable “quantum effects” that political scientists routinely dismiss as irrelevant, like newspaper and gubernatorial endorsements, suddenly become important. Could Chris Christie have a solid debate and shoot from 5 percent to 15 percent in the polls right before the election? I’m basically asking if he can win over two-thirds of Romney voters, so the answer to me is obviously “yes.” Might Terry Brandstad decide it is Kasich's time, and rocket the governor into a surprise third-place finish? If it only takes 10 percent of the vote to do so, why not?

So what happens if, instead of Walker, Bush, Cruz, and Paul, our early winners are, say, Ben Carson, Mitt Romney, Rick Perry, and Paul, with Walker, Bush and Cruz coming in a close second in these states? The result would be seven solid candidates receiving substantial numbers of delegates early on, without an obvious pick for the party. It would quickly become self-perpetuating: The longer candidates continue to rack up delegates, and the longer that the size of the field prevents someone from racking up a huge numbers of delegates, and the longer the field will stay large.

The most credible response to all of this is, in my view, “Haven’t we predicted this before?” This was basically Steve Kornacki’s rejoinder to me in 2012, when I was discussing such a scenario for that year. Our back-and-forth is worth revisiting if you agree with me so far, as Kornacki’s recitation of history is impeccable (as is his wont).

But my rejoinder is basically the same as last time: Past performance is no guarantee of future results. This is especially true since some things really have changed: SuperPAC funding, Internet fundraising (weakening parties), and the size and strength of this field.

Most importantly, we should bear in mind just how close Republicans actually came to a brokered convention in 2012. Had 5,300 Ohio voters changed their mind, and/or 16,200 Michigan voters cast their ballots differently, Romney would have been severely damaged, and that race probably would have gone to the convention. Party elites might even have demanded it.

For that matter, consider 2008 on the Democratic side. John Edwards was a very serious candidate, coming off of a credible run as vice president in 2004. What if he had decided to gut it out for one more week, through Super Tuesday? Let’s say he won only 90 delegates – just 5 percent of the 1,700 delegates awarded that day. If he pulled evenly from Obama and Clinton, this would have been enough eventually to deny Obama an outright majority of the pledged delegates.

Of course, the super delegates would probably have still saved Obama (Edwards would have had to have won about 250 delegates on Super Tuesday to prevent that), but super delegates don’t fit into the Republican calculus to any great degree. More to the point, it only took two equally matched candidates and a tepid effort from a third candidate for the 2008 Democratic race to come dangerously close to a convention. If just four or five evenly matched Republicans making it to Super Tuesday, it’s hard to see how a similar result would be avoided.

This isn’t to say that things necessarily play out this way. A candidate could catch fire and suddenly bring stability to the races, as happened with the Democrats in 2004. A large number of candidates could decide not to run.

Rather, the point is that it really is unknowable at this point what will happen. For now, the race is chaotic and utterly unpredictable. Which makes it fun.
It's not going to be Tea Party v. Establishment next year, but could end up being a very fun four or five way contest.

As for myself, I'm not sure who I'm backing yet, but I do like what my Governor (Kasich) has done.
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by Mr Bean »

Why is Ted Cruz still on anyone's short list still? He's a Canadian, he's not a native born American but only granted citizenship via his American parent and never took steps to renounce his Canadian citizenship until he was already a Senator. Along with the crazier than Bachman soundbites he gives and the fact he falls about competely in anything but a friendly crowd I can't imagine him for a second being able to get by at best two debates before someone goes out there and says "your a Canadian, John McCain had a similar situation but he asked Congress for a vote of affirmation before running why haven't you?

Because I'd place good money Congress would debate and declare him Canadian... he's not made himself popular with those people who's votes he needs. Remember he's a red meat feeder, he goes to work to fire up the base, make lots of statements and not actually do anything legislatively. There's a reason that career path works because as long as you never purpose anything it's hard to get picked out for purposing something unpopular or doing something that fails. If you never purpose anything you can simply take credit for others legislation once it works risk free.

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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by Terralthra »

He was an American citizen at birth by parental citizenship. The law (Nationality Act of 1940) is perfectly clear on this. Practical electability as a political decision is different, obviously, but there's no legal objection.
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by Joun_Lord »

Though I kinda lean Republican I'm not exactly thrilled with any of the candidates that I'm familiar with, but of course I'm not easy to please.

I'd like a fiscally conservative candidate with liberal social policies but without going all anti-gun. I actually am almost of the libertarian-ish philosophy of "as long as they ain't hurting anyone stay out of their business" hence my support of gay rights but also of owning evil deadly boomsticks. Wouldn't go libertarian though just because of their pretty much hatred of poor people and any government support programs and their "let the courts sort it out" approach to the environment.

I'm kinda fucking all over the place politically.

If I had to hold my nose and vote for any listed in the article I'd probably go for Jeb Bush just because he seems the least repugnant out of the candidates I actually know. Someone like Cruz, Huckabee, Frothy Mixture, or Paul getting elected would just be fucking terrible, atleast in my opinion
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by Broomstick »

Mr Bean wrote:Why is Ted Cruz still on anyone's short list still? He's a Canadian, he's not a native born American but only granted citizenship via his American parent and never took steps to renounce his Canadian citizenship until he was already a Senator.
And McCain was born in Panama but that didn't stop him running.

Cruz having an American parent grants him citizenship by birth, which makes him eligible to run for PotUS.
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by Mr Bean »

Terralthra wrote:He was an American citizen at birth by parental citizenship. The law (Nationality Act of 1940) is perfectly clear on this. Practical electability as a political decision is different, obviously, but there's no legal objection.
Let me double check that here Terralthra but the following
Title 8 wrote: Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Anyone born inside the United States *
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
While McCain having born on a military base to two American citizen parents qualifies. Cruz having an American and Canadian Parents being born in Canada fails the natural born citizen test.
Art 2 wrote:No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
The 1940 act or what I could find did not mention any change to the natural born citizen clause for someone like Cruz. Citizen yes, natural born no.

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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

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The question hinges on whether or not Mrs. Cruz lived in the US for at least five years. Go back and re-read the requirements you quoted.
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

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Broomstick wrote:The question hinges on whether or not Mrs. Cruz lived in the US for at least five years. Go back and re-read the requirements you quoted.
They spent four years living in Canada as Canadian citizens, my understanding is that five years is not "five years in your entire lifetime" but five years following or close to the birth.

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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

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When the five years has to occur is not specified in the information presented in this thread. In fact, I see no qualification as to when in a parent's lifetime those five years much occur, or that they even be consecutive.
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by Flagg »

In direct answer to the topic title: We'll all fart rainbows and ride flying unicorns because this is a land of make believe. :P
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

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You think that the Party's supporters and backers won't permit such an outcome, and prevent it by some means?
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by Flagg »

Of course. Hell, it would shock me if they didn't have a plan in place for replacing Presidential candidates,, I mean what if both members of the ticket were to die in some tragic circumstance? There have got to be measures to adjust for that, most likely quickly nominating the candidate who came in second in the primaries and whoever they (quickly) choose as VP.
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by General Zod »

Mr Bean wrote:
Broomstick wrote:The question hinges on whether or not Mrs. Cruz lived in the US for at least five years. Go back and re-read the requirements you quoted.
They spent four years living in Canada as Canadian citizens, my understanding is that five years is not "five years in your entire lifetime" but five years following or close to the birth.
I don't see anything in the law you quoted that makes that distinction.
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

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Flagg wrote:Of course. Hell, it would shock me if they didn't have a plan in place for replacing Presidential candidates,, I mean what if both members of the ticket were to die in some tragic circumstance? There have got to be measures to adjust for that, most likely quickly nominating the candidate who came in second in the primaries and whoever they (quickly) choose as VP.
Er, to be more clear, do you think that the Republican Party's backers and donors won't allow the absence of a clear winner? At least, as of the time of the convention?
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

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Mr Bean wrote:Let me double check that here Terralthra but the following
Title 8 wrote:Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
Ted Cruz was born outside the US, had one parent who was a citizen of the US, and she had lived in the US for ten years (exceeding the 5 year requirement). He fulfills the quoted clause, and is this a natural-born US citizen. There's no argument here.
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

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I would kind of like to revisit the original topic- what might it look like if the primary race remains hotly contested up until the end? So far that's been rare because by the time the first ten states are decided the campaign's been going on for many months and at most one or two clear winners have emerged, one of whom will build increasing momentum going into the convention.

But I suppose that isn't magically required to happen... is it?
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by General Zod »

This sort of question came up last election too funny enough. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-14/j ... on/3829266
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by Irbis »

Simon_Jester wrote:But I suppose that isn't magically required to happen... is it?
Why not? :|

Party bosses can just look at candidates, pick one and tell others: "get lost, if you resign from the race now and endorse our guy, we'll give you lucrative job openings, if not, good luck running as independent because we sure as hell won't endorse you then or give any campaign money". You guys act like that would be for some reason impossible or unpopular, but the stranglehold on campaigns two party system has virtually guarantees even a horse would win with independent candidate and everyone sane enough to run for president knows it.
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by Simon_Jester »

The whole point of the primary system in the US is that party bosses can't arbitrarily pick a candidate without having to listen to the party membership.

Which is not to say it's necessarily impossible, just that the very existence of the primaries acts to subvert it

The bigger thing stopping it from happening, frankly, is the donors and the backers of 'independent' PACs. But even there, we have an issue in that there is more than one major source of potential funds for Republican hopefuls in the primaries. Just because, say, the Koch brothers decide to back Scott Walker doesn't mean Scott Walker is the only person with a chance to win.

So one possible scenario is that there is, essentially, a split among the power blocs that sustain the Republican party, with different blocs siding with different candidates. This almost happened in 2012... except for Romney.

So the question is, is the 'clear front-runner' analogue to Romney guaranteed to exist in the 2016 campaign? Because it's not clear that there is, say, a shadowy Republican billionaire council that decides on this well before the primaries begin and then makes the rest of the primary season an exercise in political theater.
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by Flagg »

Simon_Jester wrote:
Flagg wrote:Of course. Hell, it would shock me if they didn't have a plan in place for replacing Presidential candidates,, I mean what if both members of the ticket were to die in some tragic circumstance? There have got to be measures to adjust for that, most likely quickly nominating the candidate who came in second in the primaries and whoever they (quickly) choose as VP.
Er, to be more clear, do you think that the Republican Party's backers and donors won't allow the absence of a clear winner? At least, as of the time of the convention?
I'll cop to this probably being due to my swisscheesed and foggy brain, but I don't understand what you're asking. :oops:
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by Simon_Jester »

To recap, the original post basically goes:

"Hey, pretty much every primary race in recent history had a clear winner by the time the convention rolls around. Last time, the Republican primaries had a string of 'favorites' who became unpopular after they proved how flaky and unworthy they were... and Romney. By the end, Romney was obviously winning. But what if this time, there isn't an obvious winner going into the convention?"

That's the question I'm pushing here. What happens if the Republican Party's various power blocs and support bases cannot agree on a single candidate?
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by Gandalf »

Wasn't that basically Romney? Everyone's second or third choice?
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Flagg
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by Flagg »

Oh, I see. They would simply keep voting until someone had the correct number of delegates. I assume that every vote or 2 one of the other Republican possible nominees would see they have no chance and ask their delegates to vote for another candidate "hoping" (because of course it's already agreed upon) for some major role in the Administration should the candidate they made a deal with win. This would go on until the first person gets the required number of delegates and becomes the Republican Candidate for President.
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by Simon_Jester »

Gandalf wrote:Wasn't that basically Romney? Everyone's second or third choice?
More or less, but the process of the Republicans going "sigh, okay, it's going to be Romney," was resolved prior to the convention.
Flagg wrote:Oh, I see. They would simply keep voting until someone had the correct number of delegates. I assume that every vote or 2 one of the other Republican possible nominees would see they have no chance and ask their delegates to vote for another candidate "hoping" (because of course it's already agreed upon) for some major role in the Administration should the candidate they made a deal with win. This would go on until the first person gets the required number of delegates and becomes the Republican Candidate for President.
That's the protocol, yes, and the interesting question is the consequences. This is what the author of the article calls a 'brokered convention,' and it's very different than the usual dynamic we've used to choose presidential candidates over the past few decades.
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Re: What If No One Wins the GOP Presidential Nomination?

Post by Gandalf »

Simon_Jester wrote:
Gandalf wrote:Wasn't that basically Romney? Everyone's second or third choice?
More or less, but the process of the Republicans going "sigh, okay, it's going to be Romney," was resolved prior to the convention.
Was there any reason aside from money that everyone "agreed" on Romney? The 08/12 primaries basically seemed to be last wallet standing, and R-Money had lots of donors who saw him as the safe and electable option, and could stay in the race the longest.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
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