Vote held at Pride Toronto AGM to ban police floats from future parades

[Tribble]

A spokesperson for the Toronto Police Service says it is not clear if a vote at Pride Toronto’s Annual General Meeting Tuesday night really means police are banned from participating in future parades.

During the meeting last night, a motion was presented asking members to address the demands made by Black Lives Matter- Toronto during a sit-in at last year's Pride Parade. One of the demands called for Pride organizers to ban police floats and booths at future parades.

The majority of those who attended the meeting voted to adopt all of the demands made by Black Lives Matter.

But Toronto police spokesperson Mark Pugash says it still isn’t clear exactly what was voted on Tuesday night.

“We don’t know what happened. People can’t seem to agree on whether police were excluded or whether it has something to do with uniforms and guns,” he told CP24 Wednesday

Pugash said the police service will need “some clarification” before it can decide how to proceed.

“I can’t comment on what was decided last night because we don’t know. But our job to protect public safety continues irrespective of anything else. We will continue to do that,” he said.

Pugash added that regardless of what decision Pride Toronto makes about the police service’s role in future parades, Toronto police will continue its outreach in the LGBTQ community.

“We have good relationships. We’ve made progress. We still have work to do. But we are going build relationships, we are going to create new relationships. We will choose inclusion over division. It is a shame people don’t agree with that,” he stated.

Not all members of Pride Toronto believe police should be banned from taking part in the event.

“It was always a discussion and what we always tried to be clear about is that it is a discussion about the role of law enforcement in the Toronto Pride Parade and not a ban,” Aaron GlynWilliams, an outgoing board member, told CTV News Toronto at Tuesday night’s meeting.

“Perhaps a cavalcade of sirens and inmate buses and vehicles is not the most appropriate way to participate in the parade. Nowhere in what I just said is that it is not appropriate to participate.”

On Wednesday afternoon, Mayor John Tory issued a statement on police participation in the parade and in it, Tory emphasized the importance of making sure all citizens feel “respected and included, “ a task he described as an “ongoing challenge.”

“The Toronto Police have had a presence in the Pride parade for more than a decade and continue to make meaningful efforts to build bridges with the LGBTQ2S community. Also, we rely on our police service to keep Pride safe every year and obviously they must continue to do so,” Tory statement read.

“With respect to police participation in the Pride parade, I am hopeful that people of goodwill can find a way to resolve this issue and to ensure that we can continue to build those vitally important bridges."

Just to add context, this came after the events of Pride last year when BLM members stopped the parade in its tracks and refused to move until the Pride organisers signed an agreement stating that the police would no longer be permitted in future pride events.

Whiel there are certainly a lot of issues between the black community and policing, even in Canada, I do not think it's remotely appropriate for a group like BLM to deliberately try to sabotage the relationship between the police and the LGBT community (or any other minority group for that matter). Hint to BLM members: you are not helping your cause by doing things like this.

[Wild Zontargs]

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
  But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
  You never get rid of the Dane.

[Tribble]

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
  But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
  You never get rid of the Dane.

Context please? I know what the Dane-geld is (essentially tribute to pay off Viking invaders), but to whom are you applying it to in this case?

[Elheru Aran]

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
  But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
  You never get rid of the Dane.

Context please? I know what the Dane-geld is (essentially tribute to pay off Viking invaders), but to whom are you applying it to in this case?

I suppose Zontargs is saying that by voting to exclude the police from Pride parades, the Toronto organization is attempting to appease groups like BLM which are frequently felt to have an anti-police agenda.

[Tribble]

Context please? I know what the Dane-geld is (essentially tribute to pay off Viking invaders), but to whom are you applying it to in this case?

I suppose Zontargs is saying that by voting to exclude the police from Pride parades, the Toronto organization is attempting to appease groups like BLM which are frequently felt to have an anti-police agenda.

That's what I thought at first glance, but it could be equally applicable to the police- by allowing the police to participate in Pride, the organization is in effect reinforcing negative police behaviours against other minorities. That's why I was asking for context.

[Wild Zontargs]

Context please? I know what the Dane-geld is (essentially tribute to pay off Viking invaders), but to whom are you applying it to in this case?

Apologies. As Elheru Aran speculated, I'm annoyed that Pride Toronto decided to implement "recommendations" originally forced on them under duress, particularly since they were proposed by BLM Toronto, who I see as little more than a Me-Too to the US version(s).*

Given that, I see this as doing nothing beneficial. It alienates the local LGBT community from the local police, who (while far from perfect) generally get along well with said community, and who seem to enjoy being a part of the Pride festivities. It encourages BLM-T (and any other protest group) to use the same tactics again, as experience shows it results in getting whatever you want.

The quote itself is from Rudyard Kipling's poem Dane-Geld. While that was about nations reacting to external provocation, it more or less summarizes my immediate reaction upon reading the article. I could have used "we do not negotiate with terrorists" to convey similar emotions, but the additional connotations open up a large can of worms that I didn't want to touch.

---

* While the original version does have legitimate concerns, I disagree with their rhetoric and tactics. Given Canada's different situation, many of those concerns are less directly relevant up here, making the tactics and rhetoric even more counterproductive.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Ugh. I hate agreeing with Zontargs.

Generally, I agree with BLM. Black people are victimized by police. If you want to dispute that first go fuck yourselves, then go read the DOJs reports on Furguson, Baltimore, Chicago the list goes on. This is not to hate on police. It is a combination of implicit bias (which is well studied) leading to poor shoot decisions, and bad oversight standards that protect bad-faith actors. It can be fixed.

But BLM has no central organization. So individual groups organize around whatever pet ideology that have and go from there. In the case of Toronto, they are assholes with a non-productive anti-police, likely anarchic local ideology.

Who see that there is nothing wrong or hypocritical in coercing or victimizing another minority group. One that has fought for decades to improve relations with police departments so we don't get beaten in the streets by them anymore, or have our own people who are in the police department left without backup to die.

They can get fucked.

[Joun_Lord]

BLM has every reason to be wary and even afraid of police. Really everyone does and I'm sure the LBGT community has just as much reason to fear police as black people if not more. I know transgender people in particular are supposed to have alot of trouble dealing with cops when they are beat up or worse, shit like assuming they are hooking or acting like the deserve violence if they are. That doesn't even get into violence by police with transgender people have the worst level of violence directed at them and the problems of being put into cells with opposite gender inmates with the sexual assault and violence that can bring. I can scarcely imagine the fear, the sheer terror that must go through the mind of a LGBT person when they are stopped by cops.

Despite that members of the LGBT community welcomed the cops there, both sides worked to create dialogue and understanding. What right does BLM have to stand in the way of that?

And I question what good would come of it. The best way to ease tensions between groups is to open arms and try to get to know each other. Maybe not always the best if even possible but seemed to be the best here. BLM I think is destroying the work members of the Toronto law enforcement and LGBT community have accomplished when they should be emulating it when possible.

I understand BLM tends to work by being extra confrontational and that can help keep their message in the limelight but that runs the risk of making enemies even if they agree with their message. I think there was some problems with Bernie Sanders supporters when they did a similar thing, when they made an event all about them and the expense of the group the event was supposed to be about.

[Alyrium Denryle]

BLM has every reason to be wary and even afraid of police. Really everyone does and I'm sure the LBGT community has just as much reason to fear police as black people if not more. I know transgender people in particular are supposed to have a lot of trouble dealing with cops when they are beat up or worse, shit like assuming they are hooking or acting like the deserve violence if they are.

Our problems are... different. Black people deal with implicit bias and poor oversight. Basically, police officers make snap judgements in a split second that rate black people as a higher threat level than warranted, so they get shot 2-5 times more often than otherwise identical white people. Individual police officers also make decisions on the basis of stereotypes that they are not really aware they making that way.

You deal with this through better training protocols, but it takes a decade to update those, and even more time for their effect to be seen.

LGBT people deal with more explicit bias. Just outright bigotry. They don't take hate crime reports seriously, they actively harass (and target for assault, physical and sometimes sexual) transpeople etc.

This is dealt with by forming bridges with police departments so that police see us as people.

Both groups deal with administration and oversight structures that encourage both processes, and protect intentional bad-actors. Increasing revenue streams through ticketing people, political motivations to "clean up" certain areas etc put both minority groups at odds with police. At the same time, when someone does Behave Badly, the system protects them from the consequences for political reasons.



That doesn't even get into violence by police with transgender people have the worst level of violence directed at them and the problems of being put into cells with opposite gender inmates with the sexual assault and violence that can bring. I can scarcely imagine the fear, the sheer terror that must go through the mind of a LGBT person when they are stopped by cops.

Despite that members of the LGBT community welcomed the cops there, both sides worked to create dialogue and understanding. What right does BLM have to stand in the way of that?

They have no such right.

[Dragon Angel]

Yeah, as much as I defended the organization-in-general the last time I discussed this, the Toronto branch's actions baffle me. You would think there would be some concept of intersectionality too realized between people of color's struggles with the cops and LGBTQs'. Sigh.

We ARE struggling together.

[Simon_Jester]

Once gain, we see the folly that threatens to destroy any positive achievements of the millenial generation's collective efforts at activism and progressivism. Namely, that when your supporters prefer to join hashtags instead of organizations, they get really stupid, really fast.

[Shroom Man 777]

More fuel for the edgelord shit-eaters.

[Simon_Jester]

I get the feeling that a bunch of aliens observing our planet would note that we-the-millenials are the first human generation to grow up with the Internet, and have become so enthused about the Internet that we've lost track of which changes you can accomplish over said Internet, and which changes require a real organization, with brick-and-mortar facilities and well-defined membership and a top authority responsible for setting policy and speaking for the group.

[Solauren]

Simple enough way to handle it:

Via the news, announce that RCMP, OPP, and Toronto Police want to have a float that represents the diverse and accepting make up of their communities. LGBT officers, visual minorities, etc, etc, etc.

At that point, PRIDE can either actually go through with the ban, showing themselves to be cowardly hippocrites, or they can allow it, and then if BLM protests, have BLACK cops break it up.