Brunei to punish gay sex and adultery with death by stoning

[wautd]

(CNN)
A new law which comes into effect from next week will punish homosexual sex and adultery with death in the small southeast Asian kingdom of Brunei.

Beginning on April 3, any individuals found guilty of the offenses will be stoned to death, according to a new penal code. The punishment will be "witnessed by a group of Muslims."
The country's strict new laws were announced in 2014, and have been rolled out gradually. The latest phase of implementation, including the brutal new provisions, was quietly announced on the Brunei attorney general's website on December 29, 2018.
Human rights groups were quick to express horror at the penal code, which will also order amputation as a punishment for theft.
"Brunei must immediately halt its plans to implement these vicious punishments, and revise its Penal Code in compliance with its human rights obligations. The international community must urgently condemn Brunei's move to put these cruel penalties into practice," Rachel Chhoa-Howard, Brunei Researcher at Amnesty International, said in a statement.

There was a broad international outcry when Brunei became the first country in the region to adopt sharia law in 2014, an Islamic legal system which outlines strict corporal punishments.
The tiny, oil-rich kingdom of just over 450,000 people is located on the island of Borneo, close to moderate Islamic nations of Indonesia and Malaysia.
In comparison to its neighbors, Brunei has grown conservative in recent years, including banning the sale of alcohol.
The new penal code was announced in May 2014, by the Sultan of Brunei, Hassanal Bolkiah, who also acts as the country's prime minister. In announcing the change, government's website quoted the Sultan saying that his government "does not expect other people to accept and agree with it, but that it would suffice if they just respect the nation in the same way that it also respects them."

Lest we forget that sharia is a crime against humanity

[K. A. Pital]

Members of the British Commonwealth and good friends of the First World.

“Member states ...united by ... their shared values of ... human rights and the rule of law”. Ouch.

[The Romulan Republic]

Members of the British Commonwealth and good friends of the First World.

“Member states ...united by ... their shared values of ... human rights and the rule of law”. Ouch.

I mean, if the Commonwealth responded by expelling them and sanctioning them, you call that evil Western imperialism too.

[Starglider]

Lest we forget that sharia is a crime against humanity

What a horribly racist Western-supremacist culturally imperialist insensitive viewpoint, turn in your intersectional inclusion badge right now.

I joke but there's an episode going on in the UK at the moment where primary schools in parts of Birmingham with large Islamic populations have parents protesting and pulling children out because of lessons explaining the existence of homosexual families and parents. Standard fundamentalist bigotry, but of course the current snowflake generation wildly overreacted with 'LGBT people have never been more vulnerable' and assorted wailing on social media. Because some stranger's children skipping lessons in a primary school is somehow worse than homosexuality being illegal (as late as 1967) and violently persecuted (for at least a couple of decades afterwards). Anyway the Guardian virtue-signalling liberal crowd literally don't know what to do, it's 'two persecuted minorities that are tragically in conflict with each other instead of teaming up against the off-white capitaloculturalpatriarchperialism' (paraphrased ).

[madd0ct0r]

Lest we forget that sharia is a crime against humanity

What a horribly racist Western-supremacist culturally imperialist insensitive viewpoint, turn in your intersectional inclusion badge right now.

I joke but there's an episode going on in the UK at the moment where primary schools in parts of Birmingham with large Islamic populations have parents protesting and pulling children out because of lessons explaining the existence of homosexual families and parents. Standard fundamentalist bigotry, but of course the current snowflake generation wildly overreacted with 'LGBT people have never been more vulnerable' and assorted wailing on social media. Because some stranger's children skipping lessons in a primary school is somehow worse than homosexuality being illegal (as late as 1967) and violently persecuted (for at least a couple of decades afterwards). Anyway the Guardian virtue-signalling liberal crowd literally don't know what to do, it's 'two persecuted minorities that are tragically in conflict with each other instead of teaming up against the off-white capitaloculturalpatriarchperialism' (paraphrased ).

I'm not sure about don't knownwhat to do. I've not seen anything except condemnation of the parents as idiots except from tory Rudd

[Ralin]

It's almost like Starglider wants a pretext to mock people for being vocally against racism and for gay rights and he figures this is good way to do that at a remove so he has enough plausible deniability to avoid getting modded for it.

[K. A. Pital]

I see Starglider is trolling again. He‘s quite active when it comes to these issues. Sounds a bit snowflakey to moi. So what is the solution, Starglider? Bomb Brunei? Or... bomb Birmingham?!

[mr friendly guy]

I am going against the grain here, and actually sort of defend Starglider.

This accusation has been thrown around against the Left, particularly feminists that they defend Islam even if Islam has values antithetical to the Left. I think what would be good discussion is if Starglider actually put forward his arguments in a separate thread.

[wautd]

Lest we forget that sharia is a crime against humanity

What a horribly racist Western-supremacist culturally imperialist insensitive viewpoint, turn in your intersectional inclusion badge right now.

I joke but there's an episode going on in the UK at the moment where primary schools in parts of Birmingham with large Islamic populations have parents protesting and pulling children out because of lessons explaining the existence of homosexual families and parents.

I heard about it yes. And after seeing how many people are minimizing or applauding for something as barbaric as stoning on the comment sections on news sites it shows these classes are more needed than ever. Children aren't born homophobic. It's when they become brainwashsed in homophobic ideologies or religions

[K. A. Pital]

I am going against the grain here, and actually sort of defend Starglider.

This accusation has been thrown around against the Left, particularly feminists that they defend Islam even if Islam has values antithetical to the Left. I think what would be good discussion is if Starglider actually put forward his arguments in a separate thread.

It could be a good discussion and no need to actually go into a different thread. Islam is not unique in its antihomosexual stance, this is common to all abrahamic faiths.

Most feminists and left-wingers I know are atheists who disparage religious beliefs, although still allowing such beliefs to be held as a private matter.

[Elheru Aran]

One would think that a middle ground could be found where people could follow the basic tenets of their faith without resorting to inhuman acts? And that if they are incapable of doing so, expressing disapproval is the appropriate reaction?

[madd0ct0r]

One would think that a middle ground could be found where people could follow the basic tenets of their faith without resorting to inhuman acts? And that if they are incapable of doing so, expressing disapproval is the appropriate reaction?

Ahh. The c of e route.

[Elheru Aran]

One would think that a middle ground could be found where people could follow the basic tenets of their faith without resorting to inhuman acts? And that if they are incapable of doing so, expressing disapproval is the appropriate reaction?

Ahh. The c of e route.

Is there anything actually wrong with what I said? If so, point it out.

[madd0ct0r]

C of e = church of England. Jam and Jerusalem and politeness and dealing with things by tutting at them.

[Elheru Aran]

C of e = church of England. Jam and Jerusalem and politeness and dealing with things by tutting at them.

So, at what point do you advocate direct physical intervention?

[madd0ct0r]

I think you are boxing at shadows here. Im not disagreeing with what you said.

[Straha]

Funnily enough, the current criminal code of Brunei already makes homosexuality illegal. (Sect. 377) And, to echo some posts above, that criminal code is a direct descendant from the British laws that were imposed on it when it was controlled by the UK.

Also, the Death Penalty is on the books in multiple places but hasn't been enforced since 1957 and Brunei is even classified as 'Abolitionist de facto' by the Death Penalty Project.

What is going on is that the sultan has been in a long-term overhaul of the legal system of Brunei to replace it with something more inline with the Islamic tradition that he has very prominently aligned himself with. That means that the legal canon is going to be based on Sharia law, as for how much of that is enforced in practice... who knows? As said above, I can't imagine that they would try to enforce it because the blowback would certainly be extreme, far more extreme than what's going on now. Also, Sharia law is, like most legal systems, more a question of interpretation than a simple unquestioned canon. The real question is what the interpretation of the canon will be by the judicial system, and that is far from clear. The only public statement by appropriate officials has been that they're ready to amputate the hands of thieves and that everything else is being worked out. (I'll add that I'm much more concerned with how traditional sharia law treats women in areas like divorce and property ownership. Those procedural and baseline questions are a lot more nefarious than "X is the punishment for Y" which can be, and are, largely ignored by judicial systems around the world. But, hey, misogyny is small potatoes on the international stage these days when compared to anti-queer legislation. )


So, yeah, the criticism being offered now is certainly colonialist in spirit even if it is legitimate in what it targets.

[wautd]

The only public statement by appropriate officials has been that they're ready to amputate the hands of thieves and that everything else is being worked out.

Which is a horrific and barbaric punishment too. Any infinite punishment for a finite crime, regardless of the severity of the crime (because the punishement for stealing 100 $ would be the same the the punishment for stealing 10000000000 $) is pretty bloody stupid.

I find the silence comming from the officials from the free western countries rather deafening (I guess economy trump basic human rights as usual) and that it's mostly due certain companies or celebrities (I wish I could afford the hotels that George Clooney is asking to boycot) starting to boycot Brunei in one way or the other that it's still somewhat in the news.

Also gotta love the irony that the sultan (with his harem) and his family (what with naming his yachts tits and nipple) would probably be guilty under their own draconic sharia laws. I guess adultery by the sultan isn't the same as adultery commited by the plebs. Then again, I suppose kings are above the law in a theocratic absolute monarchy

[Broomstick]

I find the silence comming from the officials from the free western countries rather deafening (I guess economy trump basic human rights as usual)

It's not like Trump is ever going to make a comment about limiting the power of an autocrat - if certain members of the current US government thought they could get away with it they'd impose the death penalty for homosexuality, too, and want "infinite" punishment for crimes, especially for the poor and the non-elite. Of course they're silent!

[Straha]

Which is a horrific and barbaric punishment too. Any infinite punishment for a finite crime, regardless of the severity of the crime (because the punishement for stealing 100 $ would be the same the the punishment for stealing 10000000000 $) is pretty bloody stupid.

You're not wrong, but the current penalty is up to three years in prison, and can be more under the right circumstances. Prison is an awful fucking institution and one that should not simply be... ignored.

Also gotta love the irony that the sultan (with his harem) and his family (what with naming his yachts tits and nipple) would probably be guilty under their own draconic sharia laws. I guess adultery by the sultan isn't the same as adultery commited by the plebs. Then again, I suppose kings are above the law in a theocratic absolute monarchy

Again, it's not 'draconian sharia law'. It's just sharia law. Sharia law is not inherently draconian (no more than the common law tradition is, at any rate), it is a rich and very nuanced and complicated legal tradition that approaches questions of justice and punishment from a nuanced background that can differ wildly from implementation to implementation. The crucial point here is that Brunei hasn't yet implemented its actual law code, it's merely shifted its basic notion of law from common law to sharia law.

Also, it was the Sultan's brother with the yacht named tits. Not the Sultan.